[straightnut]

I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy. What is it that makes the
download a hundred bucks cheaper? Is it the inability to resell or
install on more than one computer? I assume the installation program
is able to be backed up, right?
Thanks,
Jeff

[Scott Dorsey]

straightnut wrote:
I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy. What is it that makes the
download a hundred bucks cheaper? Is it the inability to resell or
install on more than one computer? I assume the installation program
is able to be backed up, right?

It reduces the amount of labor the company has to do in duplicating a
CD, packaging it, printing the manuals, shipping it to you, dealing with
the shipping when it gets lost, etc.

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same file you would have
got on a CD, and you should be able to dump the binary file to a CD to have
as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit easier.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

straightnut wrote:

I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy.

Worst case: having it on CD, a printed manual. With Audition you save
downloading 4 GB's if you want the loop collection. I don't know what their
download vs. boxed price differential is.

What is it that makes the
download a hundred bucks cheaper?

Printing and shipping and handling.

Is it the inability to resell or
install on more than one computer?

Adobes software allows two installs to be active simultaneously, you can
have an unlimited number of installs, and transfer the activation.

I assume the installation program
is able to be backed up, right?

Yes. Not all people get it done.

Thanks,
Jeff


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[straightnut]

On Nov 13, 3:28 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
straightnut wrote:
I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy. What is it that makes the
download a hundred bucks cheaper? Is it the inability to resell or
install on more than one computer? I assume the installation program
is able to be backed up, right?

It reduces the amount of labor the company has to do in duplicating a
CD, packaging it, printing the manuals, shipping it to you, dealing with
the shipping when it gets lost, etc.

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same file you would have
got on a CD, and you should be able to dump the binary file to a CD to have
as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit easier.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks guys. Is a binary just a typical installation program?
Jeff

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 13, 2:55 pm, straightnut wrote:
I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy.

Generally the difference is that there's no packaging and distribution
cost. Also, the only manual you get is either help files for the
program or a PDF file that you can print (or not). To me the biggest
difference is not getting a printed manual.

However, the download version of some programs is a special version
that's not available in a retail package. There's a Samplitude or
maybe it's a Magix Studio DAW that's like that - can't buy it in a
box, and it has a smaller maximum number of tracks than the "lightest"
boxed version. I don't know if they still sell it that way.

You just have to look at the features closely to be sure of what
you're getting or not getting.

[Arny Krueger]

"straightnut" wrote in message
ps.com

I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download
my audio software instead of buying a hard copy.

Mostly the box and nifty labelled distribution media.

What is it that makes the download a hundred bucks cheaper?

The software company really wants to encourage those downloads.

Is it the inability to resell or install on more than one
computer?

You can do that with downloads - just burn the file you download onto a CD
or copy it to a flash drive.

I assume the installation program is able to be backed up, right?

IME, yes.

[Paul Stamler]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
straightnut wrote:

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same file you would
have
got on a CD, and you should be able to dump the binary file to a CD to
have
as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit easier.

Except that I hate having to print out the bloody manual, find a binder,
etc.. For me it's usually worth the money to get the printed-and-bound
manual.

Peace,
Paul

[Arny Krueger]

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
straightnut wrote:

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same
file you would have got on a CD, and you should be able
to dump the binary file to a CD to have as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit
easier.

Except that I hate having to print out the bloody manual,
find a binder, etc.. For me it's usually worth the money
to get the printed-and-bound manual.

Lots of boxed software has no printed manual worth mentioning.

[Geoff]

Paul Stamler wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
straightnut wrote:

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same file you
would have got on a CD, and you should be able to dump the binary
file to a CD to have as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit easier.

Except that I hate having to print out the bloody manual, find a
binder, etc.. For me it's usually worth the money to get the
printed-and-bound manual.


But even on boxed software now the manual is likely to be a pdf on a CD.

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 13, 5:47 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

Lots of boxed software has no printed manual worth mentioning.

Sad, but true.

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can cost
about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

[straightnut]

On Nov 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can cost
about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder. I suppose with such a large manual, it would be worth having
it in print form rather than as a .pdf file.

Jeff

[straightnut]

On Nov 13, 10:42 pm, straightnut wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can cost
about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder. I suppose with such a large manual, it would be worth having
it in print form rather than as a .pdf file.

Jeff

I forgot that I can't do double-sided printing and wouldn't want to
turn the paper over with every sheet. So maybe it's just better to go
to Kinko's.
Jeff

[Geoff]

straightnut wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can
cost about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder. I suppose with such a large manual, it would be worth having
it in print form rather than as a .pdf file.


Go to a digital print shop and get them to print/bind it. Inkjet is
unsatisfying to read and lacks the assertiveness of a high-contrast toner !

geoff

[straightnut]

On Nov 13, 11:01 pm, "geoff" wrote:
straightnut wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can
cost about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder. I suppose with such a large manual, it would be worth having
it in print form rather than as a .pdf file.

Go to a digital print shop and get them to print/bind it. Inkjet is
unsatisfying to read and lacks the assertiveness of a high-contrast toner !

geoff

Okay. Thanks.
Jeff

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"straightnut" wrote in message ups.com...
On Nov 13, 10:42 pm, straightnut wrote:
On Nov 13, 9:01 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:56 pm, Les Cargill wrote:

Have you priced getting Kinkos to do it for you?

I've occasionally had a manual printed at Kinko's. A 30 page hardware
manual isn't bad, but a 400 page software manual with binding can cost
about $40. It's like adding injury to insult.

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder. I suppose with such a large manual, it would be worth having
it in print form rather than as a .pdf file.

Jeff

I forgot that I can't do double-sided printing and wouldn't want to
turn the paper over with every sheet. So maybe it's just better to go
to Kinko's.
Jeff


Or pay for the hard copy.

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 13, 10:42 pm, straightnut wrote:

I didn't realize the manuals were so big. I just checked out Ableton
Live's manual and it is indeed almost 400 pages. I think it's about $.
05 per page on my inkjet which would come to $20 plus paper and
binder.

Don't forget the toner or ink. 400 pages would probably pretty much
eat up an inkjet cartridge, or about 10% of a laserjet toner
cartridge. And then there's wear on your printer. Most of today's
cheap printers tend to crap out after 5000-10000 pages or so and cost
more to repair than to replace.

Wavelab's manual is 768 pages. Sequioa V7 is 568 pages. Sound Forge 8
manual is 80 pages, most of them useless, the 336 page PDF that comes
with the program is more useful.

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 14, 4:48 am, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" /Odm
wrote:

Or pay for the hard copy.

Often there isn't one, even when you buy the retail version of the
program.

I often send people to the Mackie web site for their Compact Mixer
Reference Guide (http://www.mackie.com/support/compactmixer/
index.html) which can be downloaded for free a chapter at a time, or a
printed copy can be ordered for, I think, $30, via a direct link to a
print-on-demand outfit. I've heard from a number of people who have
downloaded it (or parts of it) but I've never heard from anyone who
bought a printed copy.

When I wrote/edited that book for Mackie the intent was that it was
going to be included as the manual (along with a product-specific
quick start guide) with every one of their mixers, but it turned out
to be too expensive to give away tens of thousands of printed copies,
but too useful to scrap. I don't know if I'd done it differently if I
knew it wouldn't be primarily a print book, but I intended for people
to read it rather than just look things up in it.

I like manuals that can be handled and read, and I always try to read
a manual before I power up a piece of hardware. But a 700 page
software manual is clearly just a reference and nobody is expected to
read it cover to cover.

[Bill[_5_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
straightnut wrote:

I was wondering what I'd be missing if I were to download my audio
software instead of buying a hard copy. What is it that makes the
download a hundred bucks cheaper? Is it the inability to resell or
install on more than one computer? I assume the installation program
is able to be backed up, right?


Makes me wonder why iTunes charges a dollar a song.


It reduces the amount of labor the company has to do in duplicating a
CD, packaging it, printing the manuals, shipping it to you, dealing with
the shipping when it gets lost, etc.

If you download a binary, you should get the exact same file you would have
got on a CD, and you should be able to dump the binary file to a CD to have
as a backup.

But the download makes everyone's life a little bit easier.
--scott

[Geoff]

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
Or pay for the hard copy.

More often than not there *is* no hard copy version produced.

geoff

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:


Wavelab's manual is 768 pages. Sequioa V7 is 568 pages. Sound Forge 8
manual is 80 pages, most of them useless, the 336 page PDF that comes
with the program is more useful.

The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think you are referring to
the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide, which may explain your dissatsifaction with
it's depth ....


geoff

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"geoff" wrote in message ...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
Or pay for the hard copy.

More often than not there *is* no hard copy version produced.

geoff

Mmmmmmmmm..... bummer. I've always thought that was
about the only reason for a retail box. I shoulda' known better,
once Microsoft stopped putting manuals in boxes....

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff" wrote:

The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think you are referring to
the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide, which may explain your dissatsifaction with
it's depth ....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I started it quicker
than I could read a couple of pages. But the user manual (at least the
version I have, 300+ pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff" wrote:

The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think you are
referring to the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide, which may explain your
dissatsifaction with it's depth ....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I started it quicker
than I could read a couple of pages. But the user manual (at least the
version I have, 300+ pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff" wrote:

The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think you are
referring to the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide, which may explain your
dissatsifaction with it's depth ....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I started it quicker
than I could read a couple of pages. But the user manual (at least the
version I have, 300+ pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

I downloaded, but I gather there is no printed full user manual in the box,
just the PDF.

I too prefer a hardcopy, and a factory hardcopy is far more satisfactory
that a laser-printed spiral bound manual.

geoff

[Geoff]

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
Or pay for the hard copy.

More often than not there *is* no hard copy version produced.

geoff

Mmmmmmmmm..... bummer. I've always thought that was
about the only reason for a retail box. I shoulda' known better,
once Microsoft stopped putting manuals in boxes....

Not to mention Help files that rely on Interner Explorer, or even worse
those that rely on an internet connection !

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On Nov 14, 8:38 pm, "geoff" wrote:

I downloaded, but I gather there is no printed full user manual in the box,
just the PDF.

I too prefer a hardcopy, and a factory hardcopy is far more satisfactory
that a laser-printed spiral bound manual.

Yup, and yup. Just the printed quick start guide in the box.

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" wrote in message

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff"
wrote:
The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think
you are referring to the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide,
which may explain your dissatsifaction with it's depth
....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I
started it quicker than I could read a couple of pages.
But the user manual (at least the version I have, 300+
pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

Learning how to extract knowlege from PDFs is a life skill. However it is
contingent on the knowlege being in the PDF, which is often not true. I
often end up surfing the web with google, which often picks up where the PDF
drops off.

[Geoff]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff"
wrote:
The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think
you are referring to the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide,
which may explain your dissatsifaction with it's depth
....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I
started it quicker than I could read a couple of pages.
But the user manual (at least the version I have, 300+
pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

Learning how to extract knowlege from PDFs is a life skill. However
it is contingent on the knowlege being in the PDF, which is often not
true. I often end up surfing the web with google, which often picks
up where the PDF drops off.

Just discovered the VIEW | Read-Out-Loud function in Acrobat 8 ! Can't do
that in bed with a hardcopy manual and your eyes shut - but on the other
hand one doesn't then stand on ones laptop when getting up for a slash.

However you can sleep, subliminally learn everything, and wake up in the
morning as an expert !!!!

geoff

[straightnut]

On Nov 15, 4:37 pm, "geoff" wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
m
Mike Rivers wrote:
On Nov 14, 5:04 pm, "geoff"
wrote:
The Sound Forge 8 user manual is 302 pages. I think
you are referring to the 80-page Quick-Start-Guide,
which may explain your dissatsifaction with it's depth
....

Yes, that's what it's called. A Quck Start guide. I
started it quicker than I could read a couple of pages.
But the user manual (at least the version I have, 300+
pages) is an unprinted PDF. Did you get a printed
manual? I got a box. g

Learning how to extract knowlege from PDFs is a life skill. However
it is contingent on the knowlege being in the PDF, which is often not
true. I often end up surfing the web with google, which often picks
up where the PDF drops off.

Just discovered the VIEW | Read-Out-Loud function in Acrobat 8 ! Can't do
that in bed with a hardcopy manual and your eyes shut - but on the other
hand one doesn't then stand on ones laptop when getting up for a slash.

However you can sleep, subliminally learn everything, and wake up in the
morning as an expert !!!!

geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's funny. But what does "getting up for a slash" mean?
Jeff

[Geoff]

straightnut wrote:

That's funny. But what does "getting up for a slash" mean?
Jeff

Getting (up) out of bed to go to urinate.


geoff

[straightnut]

On Nov 15, 9:33 pm, "geoff" wrote:
straightnut wrote:

That's funny. But what does "getting up for a slash" mean?
Jeff

Getting (up) out of bed to go to urinate.

geoff

Ah yes. It is important to get up for that.
Jeff