[Gary Eickmeier]

I have this nice new computer, Dell XPS-8700 with Intel i7 processor, 12 G
RAM, and NVidea graphics card. I think the sound card is a built-in but it
has all 5.1 channels, and all channels work in the Windows setup screen. You
can test each speaker and the test tone comes out of the appropriate one. So
all 6 outputs are operational.

But go into Adobe Audition 5.5 and try to do surround sound, and I can't
even map the sound to the appropriate channels. It behaves as if there were
only the two stereo channels. Instructions not real clear, playing around
not very productive. Either there is some revelation I have yet to discover,
or I need a new, better sound card.

Anyone? Has anyone out there done 5.1 surround like this yet?

Gary Eickmeier

[Ron C[_2_]]

On 4/1/2016 11:26 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have this nice new computer, Dell XPS-8700 with Intel i7 processor, 12 G
RAM, and NVidea graphics card. I think the sound card is a built-in but it
has all 5.1 channels, and all channels work in the Windows setup screen. You
can test each speaker and the test tone comes out of the appropriate one. So
all 6 outputs are operational.

But go into Adobe Audition 5.5 and try to do surround sound, and I can't
even map the sound to the appropriate channels. It behaves as if there were
only the two stereo channels. Instructions not real clear, playing around
not very productive. Either there is some revelation I have yet to discover,
or I need a new, better sound card.

Anyone? Has anyone out there done 5.1 surround like this yet?

Gary Eickmeier


I don't have Audition 5.5 and thus can't verify, but a quick google
search turned up:
~~
Here are the details. Audition 4/CS5.5 requires that you set up your
session initially as a 5.1 session. You can also choose stereo or mono,
and once that choice is made, you can't "expand" a stereo or mono
session to 5.1. (As a result, any session I think I might want for 5.1
later, but not right away, I set up as 5.1 anyway, then only mix to
front L/R initially.) If you add busses to your mix, you need to choose
carefully whether they need to be stereo or 5.1-capable, depending on
the content. On each of your tracks you'll now see a multichannel
panner that looks like a binaural dummy head. Double-click to expand,
and automate your panning to your heart's content. It's an amazingly
flexible panner but works differently than Premiere's or that of older
versions of Audition, which should be an advantage in most instances.
~~
[YMMV]
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Ron C" wrote in message
news
On 4/1/2016 11:26 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have this nice new computer, Dell XPS-8700 with Intel i7 processor, 12
G
RAM, and NVidea graphics card. I think the sound card is a built-in but
it
has all 5.1 channels, and all channels work in the Windows setup screen.
You
can test each speaker and the test tone comes out of the appropriate one.
So
all 6 outputs are operational.

But go into Adobe Audition 5.5 and try to do surround sound, and I can't
even map the sound to the appropriate channels. It behaves as if there
were
only the two stereo channels. Instructions not real clear, playing around
not very productive. Either there is some revelation I have yet to
discover,
or I need a new, better sound card.

Anyone? Has anyone out there done 5.1 surround like this yet?

Gary Eickmeier


I don't have Audition 5.5 and thus can't verify, but a quick google
search turned up:
~~
Here are the details. Audition 4/CS5.5 requires that you set up your
session initially as a 5.1 session. You can also choose stereo or mono,
and once that choice is made, you can't "expand" a stereo or mono session
to 5.1. (As a result, any session I think I might want for 5.1 later, but
not right away, I set up as 5.1 anyway, then only mix to front L/R
initially.) If you add busses to your mix, you need to choose carefully
whether they need to be stereo or 5.1-capable, depending on the content.
On each of your tracks you'll now see a multichannel panner that looks
like a binaural dummy head. Double-click to expand, and automate your
panning to your heart's content. It's an amazingly flexible panner but
works differently than Premiere's or that of older versions of Audition,
which should be an advantage in most instances.
~~
[YMMV]
==
Later...
Ron Capik

Well that is helpful indeed. I think I did open as a 5.1 project, since it
was recorded for that purpose. I did see the choice for each track of mono
stereo or 5.1. But when I put 5.1, all I got was a blank track. I will try
opening a whole new project as 5.1 and go from there. Still not sure about
my hardware, but if I at least do the software right, I will know if my
computer can handle it.

Gary

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/2/2016 12:15 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I think I did open as a 5.1 project, since it
was recorded for that purpose. I did see the choice for each track of mono
stereo or 5.1. But when I put 5.1, all I got was a blank track. I will try
opening a whole new project as 5.1 and go from there. Still not sure about
my hardware, but if I at least do the software right, I will know if my
computer can handle it.

Your sound card needs to have six outputs in order to be able to mix in
5.1. Does it have six output jacks (or three stereo mini phone jacks)?
You may also need an ASIO driver in order for Audition to see all of the
outputs.

If you have stereo files that you want to try to remix to surround, you
should be able to open a new surround project, then import the stereo
files from your original project into the front left and right tracks of
the new surround project.

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/2/2016 12:15 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I think I did open as a 5.1 project, since it
was recorded for that purpose. I did see the choice for each track of
mono
stereo or 5.1. But when I put 5.1, all I got was a blank track. I will
try
opening a whole new project as 5.1 and go from there. Still not sure
about
my hardware, but if I at least do the software right, I will know if my
computer can handle it.

Your sound card needs to have six outputs in order to be able to mix in
5.1. Does it have six output jacks (or three stereo mini phone jacks)? You
may also need an ASIO driver in order for Audition to see all of the
outputs.

If you have stereo files that you want to try to remix to surround, you
should be able to open a new surround project, then import the stereo
files from your original project into the front left and right tracks of
the new surround project.

Yes, I have three stereo jacks for output, and it can play a test tone out
of each speaker. But when I try to assign tracks to channels, it tells me
that there is no input device for 5.1, only for stereo. It shows the NVidia
card and the Realtek card, but if I select NVidia it just doesn't work.
Select Realtek, and I can at least work in stereo. I ran a Belarc on the
computer, and all it will tell me is that I have an NVidia card and a
Realtek card, not what their capabilities are or whether they have ASIO
capability. Right now I just have MME capability.

Not sure I know what I am talking about - all of the terminology and
settings. I just have this feeling that if I went out and bought a good
sound card life would come together for my 5.1 capabilities.

Gary

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/2/2016 2:17 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Yes, I have three stereo jacks for output, and it can play a test tone out
of each speaker. But when I try to assign tracks to channels, it tells me
that there is no input device for 5.1, only for stereo.

I'd hazard a guess your sound card(s) is one that will handle 5.1 output
for the benefit of game players and DVD watchers, but only has a
2-channel (stereo) input.

Do I remember correctly that you have a Zoom H6? Or is that someone
else? If you do, try using that as the interface for your computer.
You'll need to go to the Zoom web site and download the multitrack
driver (might as well get the ASIO driver, too) and install it. I'll bet
that will show up as 6 inputs for recording. Two are the stereo mics and
the other four are the input jacks.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[geoff]

On 3/04/2016 6:17 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


Yes, I have three stereo jacks for output, and it can play a test tone out
of each speaker. But when I try to assign tracks to channels, it tells me
that there is no input device for 5.1, only for stereo. It shows the NVidia
card and the Realtek card, but if I select NVidia it just doesn't work.
Select Realtek, and I can at least work in stereo. I ran a Belarc on the
computer, and all it will tell me is that I have an NVidia card and a
Realtek card, not what their capabilities are or whether they have ASIO
capability. Right now I just have MME capability.

Not sure I know what I am talking about - all of the terminology and
settings. I just have this feeling that if I went out and bought a good
sound card life would come together for my 5.1 capabilities.

5.1 (=6) outputs does not imply you should have 5.1 INPUTs as well.

5.1 mixes are generally created from tracks recorded in mono or
stereo..... though there is no reason you couldn't actually record with
6 microphones in a a configuration resembling a 5.1 sound-stage.

But not generally done that way, for quote a few reasons.

geoff

[Gary Eickmeier]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 3/04/2016 6:17 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


Yes, I have three stereo jacks for output, and it can play a test tone
out
of each speaker. But when I try to assign tracks to channels, it tells me
that there is no input device for 5.1, only for stereo. It shows the
NVidia
card and the Realtek card, but if I select NVidia it just doesn't work.
Select Realtek, and I can at least work in stereo. I ran a Belarc on the
computer, and all it will tell me is that I have an NVidia card and a
Realtek card, not what their capabilities are or whether they have ASIO
capability. Right now I just have MME capability.

Not sure I know what I am talking about - all of the terminology and
settings. I just have this feeling that if I went out and bought a good
sound card life would come together for my 5.1 capabilities.

5.1 (=6) outputs does not imply you should have 5.1 INPUTs as well.

5.1 mixes are generally created from tracks recorded in mono or
stereo..... though there is no reason you couldn't actually record with 6
microphones in a a configuration resembling a 5.1 sound-stage.

But not generally done that way, for quote a few reasons.

geoff

For Mike and Geoff -

I don't need to record with the thing, I have already recorded two front
channels and two ambience channels and one center channel for the singer. So
all I need to do is assign the channels to the mixer and pan them to the
appropriate output.

I have purchased a Soundblaster super duper sound card that has all of the
features I think I need. It has the six outputs, which work just fine, it
has a microphone input and a headphone output. It has the ASIO driver. For
software I have the Adobe Audition 5.5. I import all of my channels into the
multitrack screen in 5.1 format. But there is apparently some secret code
that I haven't broken for assigning the tracks to the surround mixer. Their
stupid instructions in the Help file has me going in circles. I am just
going to have to fiddle with it until comes the dawn - unless someone out
there has done this before with this software and can explain in a step by
step recipe how the hell to do this. I think it has something to do with
buses rather than tracks, or some combination of the two. Maybe I assign a
track to a bus, then drag and drop the track into the bus, then assign it to
the little surround track diagram. Right now I am staring at all 6 tracks,
each assigned to the appropriate mixer channel, but when I solo one of the
surround tracks it just shows on the meter, does not play out of the
speaker.

So the missing step is track in mixer to output speaker. I have been thru
the channel mapping screen to no avail. I press Ls, for example, and it just
offers me L or R front channel to pipe to it.

Gary

[geoff]

On 3/04/2016 5:41 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


So the missing step is track in mixer to output speaker. I have been thru
the channel mapping screen to no avail. I press Ls, for example, and it just
offers me L or R front channel to pipe to it.

Gary




Dunno about Audition, but in Vegas there is an menu
Options|Preferences|AudioDevice where the desired output device is
selected and the 5.1 channels are each assigned to the specific
soundcard physical outputs.

I would guess it's something similar, but if Adobe have put their stamp
on the app since it was Cool Edit, they've probably made it obscure and
unintuitive like their other apps. Remember how long it took Pagemaker
for Windows to even get basic right-click functionality ?!!!

geoff

[[email protected]]

Sounds like a driver problem.
You have the hardware but not the software.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/3/2016 1:41 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have the Adobe Audition 5.5. I import all of my channels into the
multitrack screen in 5.1 format. But there is apparently some secret code
that I haven't broken for assigning the tracks to the surround mixer. Their
stupid instructions in the Help file has me going in circles. I am just
going to have to fiddle with it until comes the dawn - unless someone out
there has done this before with this software and can explain in a step by
step recipe how the hell to do this. I think it has something to do with
buses rather than tracks, or some combination of the two. Maybe I assign a
track to a bus, then drag and drop the track into the bus, then assign it to
the little surround track diagram. Right now I am staring at all 6 tracks,
each assigned to the appropriate mixer channel, but when I solo one of the
surround tracks it just shows on the meter, does not play out of the
speaker.

My Audition experience stopped with Version 3 which, if it has surround
capabilities other than what you can do with the stereo panning and
levels, I haven't found it. Obviously you need six outputs, which you
have with your sound card, but the trick is, rather than assign the
track outputs to just the main stereo bus (as you'd do for stereo
mixing), it needs to be assigned to all six buses. Also, you need the
mixer to have a surround panner rather than the usual left/right.

I have Audition 3 and have never played with surround, but I figured out
a way that wouldn't be too inconvenient to try, so I tried it. I
normally have a Mackie Satellite pod only (stereo in/out) connected to
my desk computer. I dug out the base station for it which turns it into
a 6 output interface. I recorded 6 tracks, then (after RTFM) I opened
the Surround Encoder from the View menu, and by golly, all of the six
outputs of the interface appeared. From here, I could select any track
and, while I didn't try it with speakers connected, could drag the dot
around the surround panning disk.

What I was hoping was that the regular mixer (that looks like a mixer)
would magically change so that the left/right pan knob would change to
something that looks like the panning disk in the Surround Encoder view,
but alas, it doesn't. So you have to look at a different view in order
to get the tracks assigned to outputs.

Does this sound anything like what you see in your version? Does this
look like what's in your manual?

Create mixes with the Surround Encoder
You export 5.1 surround sound from a multitrack session by using the
Surround Encoder dialog box. With this dialog box, you can pan each
track, preview the surround mix, and export it as six mono WAV files, or
one interleaved, six€‘channel WAV or WMA file.
Important: To accurately preview surround mixes, you need a sound card
with at least six outputs. For detailed requirements, see Set the
preview device for surround mixes.

In Multitrack View, open or create a session, and create a basic
stereo mix with desired track volume, pan, and effects settings.
If you open an existing session, consider choosing File Save
Session As to save a copy specifically for surround mixing.
Choose View Surround Encoder.
In the Track List area, select the tracks and buses you want to
include in the surround mix.
In the Track Options area, set the panning assignment and amplitude
levels for each track.
If necessary, fine€‘tune and automate panning for each track.
Preview and export the surround mix.





--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/3/2016 1:41 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have the Adobe Audition 5.5. I import all of my channels into the
multitrack screen in 5.1 format. But there is apparently some secret code
that I haven't broken for assigning the tracks to the surround mixer.
Their
stupid instructions in the Help file has me going in circles. I am just
going to have to fiddle with it until comes the dawn - unless someone out
there has done this before with this software and can explain in a step
by
step recipe how the hell to do this. I think it has something to do with
buses rather than tracks, or some combination of the two. Maybe I assign
a
track to a bus, then drag and drop the track into the bus, then assign it
to
the little surround track diagram. Right now I am staring at all 6
tracks,
each assigned to the appropriate mixer channel, but when I solo one of
the
surround tracks it just shows on the meter, does not play out of the
speaker.

My Audition experience stopped with Version 3 which, if it has surround
capabilities other than what you can do with the stereo panning and
levels, I haven't found it. Obviously you need six outputs, which you have
with your sound card, but the trick is, rather than assign the track
outputs to just the main stereo bus (as you'd do for stereo mixing), it
needs to be assigned to all six buses. Also, you need the mixer to have a
surround panner rather than the usual left/right.

I have Audition 3 and have never played with surround, but I figured out a
way that wouldn't be too inconvenient to try, so I tried it. I normally
have a Mackie Satellite pod only (stereo in/out) connected to my desk
computer. I dug out the base station for it which turns it into a 6 output
interface. I recorded 6 tracks, then (after RTFM) I opened the Surround
Encoder from the View menu, and by golly, all of the six outputs of the
interface appeared. From here, I could select any track and, while I
didn't try it with speakers connected, could drag the dot around the
surround panning disk.

What I was hoping was that the regular mixer (that looks like a mixer)
would magically change so that the left/right pan knob would change to
something that looks like the panning disk in the Surround Encoder view,
but alas, it doesn't. So you have to look at a different view in order to
get the tracks assigned to outputs.

Does this sound anything like what you see in your version? Does this look
like what's in your manual?

Create mixes with the Surround Encoder
You export 5.1 surround sound from a multitrack session by using the
Surround Encoder dialog box. With this dialog box, you can pan each track,
preview the surround mix, and export it as six mono WAV files, or one
interleaved, six-channel WAV or WMA file.
Important: To accurately preview surround mixes, you need a sound card
with at least six outputs. For detailed requirements, see Set the preview
device for surround mixes.

In Multitrack View, open or create a session, and create a basic
stereo mix with desired track volume, pan, and effects settings.
If you open an existing session, consider choosing File Save Session
As to save a copy specifically for surround mixing.
Choose View Surround Encoder.
In the Track List area, select the tracks and buses you want to
include in the surround mix.
In the Track Options area, set the panning assignment and amplitude
levels for each track.
If necessary, fine-tune and automate panning for each track.
Preview and export the surround mix.

Interesting - seems like some good advice in there - will try some of the
steps in there that I haven't found in my help file. Of course I do have the
surround output card and the six speakers. The LFE channel is not a separate
channel that you record, so I don't know what they want me to do with that,
but anyway I have the nice surround mix screen and I can tell the five
tracks that I do have to go to the appropriate output. But I just can't
assign the tracks to those outputs so that they make noise there. Everything
goes to either left or right front. Well, check that, the rear two don't
make noise at all right now, because they have been told to go to Ls and Rs,
but they just get lost on the way... so to speak.

Don't worry I will keep playing with it until I get it. Many thanks for all
that info.

Gary

[david gourley[_2_]]

"Gary Eickmeier" said...news:8KaMy.1513$9C2.867
@fx37.iad:


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/3/2016 1:41 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have the Adobe Audition 5.5. I import all of my channels into the
multitrack screen in 5.1 format. But there is apparently some secret
code
that I haven't broken for assigning the tracks to the surround mixer.
Their
stupid instructions in the Help file has me going in circles. I am just
going to have to fiddle with it until comes the dawn - unless someone
out
there has done this before with this software and can explain in a step
by
step recipe how the hell to do this. I think it has something to do
with
buses rather than tracks, or some combination of the two. Maybe I
assign
a
track to a bus, then drag and drop the track into the bus, then assign
it
to
the little surround track diagram. Right now I am staring at all 6
tracks,
each assigned to the appropriate mixer channel, but when I solo one of
the
surround tracks it just shows on the meter, does not play out of the
speaker.

My Audition experience stopped with Version 3 which, if it has surround
capabilities other than what you can do with the stereo panning and
levels, I haven't found it. Obviously you need six outputs, which you
have
with your sound card, but the trick is, rather than assign the track
outputs to just the main stereo bus (as you'd do for stereo mixing), it
needs to be assigned to all six buses. Also, you need the mixer to have
a
surround panner rather than the usual left/right.

I have Audition 3 and have never played with surround, but I figured out
a
way that wouldn't be too inconvenient to try, so I tried it. I normally
have a Mackie Satellite pod only (stereo in/out) connected to my desk
computer. I dug out the base station for it which turns it into a 6
output
interface. I recorded 6 tracks, then (after RTFM) I opened the Surround
Encoder from the View menu, and by golly, all of the six outputs of the
interface appeared. From here, I could select any track and, while I
didn't try it with speakers connected, could drag the dot around the
surround panning disk.

What I was hoping was that the regular mixer (that looks like a mixer)
would magically change so that the left/right pan knob would change to
something that looks like the panning disk in the Surround Encoder view,
but alas, it doesn't. So you have to look at a different view in order
to
get the tracks assigned to outputs.

Does this sound anything like what you see in your version? Does this
look
like what's in your manual?

Create mixes with the Surround Encoder
You export 5.1 surround sound from a multitrack session by using the
Surround Encoder dialog box. With this dialog box, you can pan each
track,
preview the surround mix, and export it as six mono WAV files, or one
interleaved, six-channel WAV or WMA file.
Important: To accurately preview surround mixes, you need a sound card
with at least six outputs. For detailed requirements, see Set the
preview
device for surround mixes.

In Multitrack View, open or create a session, and create a basic
stereo mix with desired track volume, pan, and effects settings.
If you open an existing session, consider choosing File Save
Session
As to save a copy specifically for surround mixing.
Choose View Surround Encoder.
In the Track List area, select the tracks and buses you want to
include in the surround mix.
In the Track Options area, set the panning assignment and amplitude
levels for each track.
If necessary, fine-tune and automate panning for each track.
Preview and export the surround mix.

Interesting - seems like some good advice in there - will try some of the
steps in there that I haven't found in my help file. Of course I do have
the
surround output card and the six speakers. The LFE channel is not a
separate
channel that you record, so I don't know what they want me to do with
that,
but anyway I have the nice surround mix screen and I can tell the five
tracks that I do have to go to the appropriate output. But I just can't
assign the tracks to those outputs so that they make noise there.
Everything
goes to either left or right front. Well, check that, the rear two don't
make noise at all right now, because they have been told to go to Ls and
Rs,
but they just get lost on the way... so to speak.

Don't worry I will keep playing with it until I get it. Many thanks for
all
that info.

Gary





Have you checked the Windows Sound Control Panel?

My i7 machine (Win7/64) has built-in Realtek audio on the MB along with
multiple jacks that can be configured in different ways. If I look at the
Windows Control Panel, that displays the capability of 5.1 channels with
the Realtek (although I typically use an external audio interface for my
work).

There's also Device Manager, which should display any incomplete drivers or
possible conflicts with hardware.


david

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/3/2016 11:40 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
The LFE channel is not a separate
channel that you record, so I don't know what they want me to do with that,
but anyway I have the nice surround mix screen and I can tell the five
tracks that I do have to go to the appropriate output. But I just can't
assign the tracks to those outputs so that they make noise there.

Yes, typically you take things out of the other channels and put them in
the LFE channel, but it's possible to do things like assign the bass
drum and the earthquake to a 6th channel when you record.

As I understand it, in the surround encoder, all tracks are assigned to
all outputs. The distance from the center that you pull the dot
determines the volume of the sound, and the position of the dot around
the circle determines the panning between the tracks. Any track can go
to any output depending on where you drag the dot around the circle,
with the understanding that tracks are paired left and right, and
left-surround and right-surround.

Try listening to just one track as you drag the dot around on the
circle. You should find places where it will direct the sound to each of
the speakers.

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Tom McCreadie]

"Gary Eickmeier" wrote:



I have purchased a Soundblaster super duper sound card that has all of the
features I think I need. It has the six outputs, which work just fine, it
has a microphone input and a headphone output. It has the ASIO driver.

As I grapple to understand it, your DELL XPS-8700 motherboard has a
gamer-oriented (ouch!) audio chipset based on Realtek ALC 3861, and this is an
MME / WDM device, not ASIO. You have now tried replacing it with - ouch, ouch! -
a 3D gamers audio card from Creative (a Recon 3D pciE card?). Are you sure that
this 'super duper' card explicitly states that it has.ASIO drivers?

FWIW, some suggestions, if you are still stumped:

1. Forget nVidia. that plays no role in your current saga.

2. Remove the Creative card for now and focus on the on-board Realtek.

3. Download the free and useful ASIO4ALL program.

4. Assign ASIO4ALL to the Realtek driver. This imposes an ASIO emulation layer
on the driver and makes Audition behave as if it's dealing with a real ASIO
driver.

5. In Audition hardware set-up, select "ASIO4ALL v2" as the audio device.

6. While still in set-up, ensure that "Release ASIO driver in background" is
not selected.
(Otherwise, if Audition were playing music, it would stop playing anything
involving ASIO whenever you clicked the focus away from the Audition main screen
- e.g. by opening another app, email client, Usenet news reader etc.)

7. With the above in place, revisit the suggestions given by Mike and others.
--
Tom McCreadie

Did Meat Loaf have many fans?
Sure - he sweated a lot.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[JackA]

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 at 9:19:12 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 3/04/2016 6:17 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


Yes, I have three stereo jacks for output, and it can play a test tone out
of each speaker. But when I try to assign tracks to channels, it tells me
that there is no input device for 5.1, only for stereo. It shows the NVidia
card and the Realtek card, but if I select NVidia it just doesn't work.
Select Realtek, and I can at least work in stereo. I ran a Belarc on the
computer, and all it will tell me is that I have an NVidia card and a
Realtek card, not what their capabilities are or whether they have ASIO
capability. Right now I just have MME capability.

Not sure I know what I am talking about - all of the terminology and
settings. I just have this feeling that if I went out and bought a good
sound card life would come together for my 5.1 capabilities.

5.1 (=6) outputs does not imply you should have 5.1 INPUTs as well.

5.1 mixes are generally created from tracks recorded in mono or
stereo.....


What? Last I heard, you needed multi-tracks to mix decent Surround Sound!!


Jack

though there is no reason you couldn't actually record with
6 microphones in a a configuration resembling a 5.1 sound-stage.

But not generally done that way, for quote a few reasons.

geoff

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/3/2016 11:40 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
The LFE channel is not a separate
channel that you record, so I don't know what they want me to do with
that,
but anyway I have the nice surround mix screen and I can tell the five
tracks that I do have to go to the appropriate output. But I just can't
assign the tracks to those outputs so that they make noise there.

Yes, typically you take things out of the other channels and put them in
the LFE channel, but it's possible to do things like assign the bass drum
and the earthquake to a 6th channel when you record.

As I understand it, in the surround encoder, all tracks are assigned to
all outputs. The distance from the center that you pull the dot determines
the volume of the sound, and the position of the dot around the circle
determines the panning between the tracks. Any track can go to any output
depending on where you drag the dot around the circle, with the
understanding that tracks are paired left and right, and left-surround and
right-surround.

Try listening to just one track as you drag the dot around on the circle.
You should find places where it will direct the sound to each of the
speakers.

No, I haven't gotten that far yet. I can't get the sound to go to the Ls and
Rs speakers. Everything just wants to go to L and R. In other words, if I
pan around like you say, there is zero output if I take it to the rear
channels.

As I said, please don't worry about it any more for now. I will play with it
some more and report back. But hey - if anyone IS doing 5.1 and has a better
program, please let me know. I will buy it.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Tom McCreadie" wrote in message
...
"Gary Eickmeier" wrote:



I have purchased a Soundblaster super duper sound card that has all of the
features I think I need. It has the six outputs, which work just fine, it
has a microphone input and a headphone output. It has the ASIO driver.

As I grapple to understand it, your DELL XPS-8700 motherboard has a
gamer-oriented (ouch!) audio chipset based on Realtek ALC 3861, and this
is an
MME / WDM device, not ASIO. You have now tried replacing it with - ouch,
ouch! -
a 3D gamers audio card from Creative (a Recon 3D pciE card?). Are you sure
that
this 'super duper' card explicitly states that it has.ASIO drivers?

FWIW, some suggestions, if you are still stumped:

1. Forget nVidia. that plays no role in your current saga.

2. Remove the Creative card for now and focus on the on-board Realtek.

3. Download the free and useful ASIO4ALL program.

4. Assign ASIO4ALL to the Realtek driver. This imposes an ASIO emulation
layer
on the driver and makes Audition behave as if it's dealing with a real
ASIO
driver.

5. In Audition hardware set-up, select "ASIO4ALL v2" as the audio device.

6. While still in set-up, ensure that "Release ASIO driver in
background" is
not selected.
(Otherwise, if Audition were playing music, it would stop playing anything
involving ASIO whenever you clicked the focus away from the Audition main
screen
- e.g. by opening another app, email client, Usenet news reader etc.)

7. With the above in place, revisit the suggestions given by Mike and
others.

OK I may visit this ASIO4ALL but the Soundblaster does have the ASIO
driver - and I did check the Release in Background, so I will uncheck it.
But let me just play with it and maybe some new instructions from you guys
plus Adobe.

Gary

[geoff]

On 4/04/2016 6:32 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


OK I may visit this ASIO4ALL but the Soundblaster does have the ASIO
driver - and I did check the Release in Background, so I will uncheck it.
But let me just play with it and maybe some new instructions from you guys
plus Adobe.

Gary




How about asking he

https://forums.adobe.com/community/audition

(when they have finished fixing the forums site).

geoff

[geoff]

On 4/04/2016 11:50 AM, JackA wrote:


5.1 mixes are generally created from tracks recorded in mono or
stereo.....


What? Last I heard, you needed multi-tracks to mix decent Surround Sound!!


I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery, and
have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are made to be
broken.

5.1 mixes are generally made from a bunch of mono or stereo source
tracks, mixed to 5.1 soundstage. Just like a stereo mix can be made from
the same spec source tracks.

However a perfectly valid 5.1 mix could even be made from just a single
mono track. Something like a bee buzzing around the room maybe, or a
racing car. Or a flautist wandering around while playing.

geoff

[geoff]

On 4/04/2016 6:28 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
't worry about it any more for now. I will play with it


Yeah Vegas Pro. And you get sophisticated video functionality to boot
(you can totally hide all the video windows if you like). Plus the most
straightforward intuitive audio workflow you could imagine.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegassoftware

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegasproedit

geoff

[JackA]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 4:48:42 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 4/04/2016 11:50 AM, JackA wrote:


5.1 mixes are generally created from tracks recorded in mono or
stereo.....


What? Last I heard, you needed multi-tracks to mix decent Surround Sound!!


I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery, and
have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are made to be
broken.

5.1 mixes are generally made from a bunch of mono or stereo source
tracks, mixed to 5.1 soundstage. Just like a stereo mix can be made from
the same spec source tracks.

However a perfectly valid 5.1 mix could even be made from just a single
mono track. Something like a bee buzzing around the room maybe, or a
racing car. Or a flautist wandering around while playing.

Oh, okay, for cinema mainly. I know it has (5) full frequency channels and (1) low frequency effects channel. I thought the idea behind music was to use (5) discrete tracks and (1) bass track and mix them. Should sound even better than stereo.

Thanks.

Jack

geoff

[None]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery,
and have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are
made to be broken.

You've been hooked by the Nazi jackass troll. Now you're a Nazi
supporter, like Magennis and others.

[John Williamson]

On 04/04/2016 11:53, JackA wrote:
On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 4:48:42 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:

However a perfectly valid 5.1 mix could even be made from just a single
mono track. Something like a bee buzzing around the room maybe, or a
racing car. Or a flautist wandering around while playing.

Oh, okay, for cinema mainly. I know it has (5) full frequency channels and (1) low frequency effects channel. I thought the idea behind music was to use (5) discrete tracks and (1) bass track and mix them. Should sound even better than stereo.

It sounds the way the mixer wants it to sound. It is an effect, just as
stereo is an effect.

To get the best out of it, you need a large listening room, and it needs
to be set up with much more care than it is for stereo.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Gary Eickmeier]

Well.... we have a Vegas program at the office. I will look into it!

Gary


"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 4/04/2016 6:28 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
't worry about it any more for now. I will play with it


Yeah Vegas Pro. And you get sophisticated video functionality to boot (you
can totally hide all the video windows if you like). Plus the most
straightforward intuitive audio workflow you could imagine.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegassoftware

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegasproedit

geoff

[Gary Eickmeier]

Very good! Will try it. Thanks!

Gary


"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 4/04/2016 6:32 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:


OK I may visit this ASIO4ALL but the Soundblaster does have the ASIO
driver - and I did check the Release in Background, so I will uncheck it.
But let me just play with it and maybe some new instructions from you
guys
plus Adobe.

Gary




How about asking he

https://forums.adobe.com/community/audition

(when they have finished fixing the forums site).

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

The first question here is.... are you trying to monitor the discrete unencoded
5.1 mix out of Audition, or are you trying to monitor the encoded and then
decoded Dolby Digital processed mix out of Audition?

And if it is the first, why are you mentioning Dolby Digital in the subject at
all?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
The first question here is.... are you trying to monitor the discrete
unencoded
5.1 mix out of Audition, or are you trying to monitor the encoded and then
decoded Dolby Digital processed mix out of Audition?

And if it is the first, why are you mentioning Dolby Digital in the
subject at
all?
--scott

I guess both - it would be unencoded while I am trying to mix it into a 5.1
file, then encoded if I have been successful and have exported it to an
interleaved 5.1 mix for writing to DVD. In that case, it would be Dolby
Digital 5.1 - right? Is there any other 5.1 surround encoding scheme that
everyone can decode in their home theater? Or am I in for a licensing
problem and expense?

Gary

[geoff]

On 5/04/2016 3:26 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I guess both - it would be unencoded while I am trying to mix it into a 5.1
file, then encoded if I have been successful and have exported it to an
interleaved 5.1 mix for writing to DVD. In that case, it would be Dolby
Digital 5.1 - right? Is there any other 5.1 surround encoding scheme that
everyone can decode in their home theater? Or am I in for a licensing
problem and expense?

Gary



Not 'both'.

I think the concern was that you were allowing the DD eventual output
target factor to confuse things on the unrendered 5.1 project mixing and
monitoring side of things.

First things first !

geoff

[Gary Eickmeier]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 5/04/2016 3:26 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I guess both - it would be unencoded while I am trying to mix it into a
5.1
file, then encoded if I have been successful and have exported it to an
interleaved 5.1 mix for writing to DVD. In that case, it would be Dolby
Digital 5.1 - right? Is there any other 5.1 surround encoding scheme that
everyone can decode in their home theater? Or am I in for a licensing
problem and expense?

Gary



Not 'both'.

I think the concern was that you were allowing the DD eventual output
target factor to confuse things on the unrendered 5.1 project mixing and
monitoring side of things.

First things first !

geoff

How could I do that?

Gary

[geoff]

On 4/04/2016 11:34 PM, None wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery, and
have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are made to
be broken.

You've been hooked by the Nazi jackass troll. Now you're a Nazi
supporter, like Magennis and others.



Surely Nazi jackass idiot trolls with profound ignorance and
inability/unwillingness to learn should occasionally be challenged ?
Hell, you've even got one who wants to be president ! (Guessing you are
USA).

geoff

[geoff]

On 5/04/2016 4:19 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
On 5/04/2016 3:26 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I guess both - it would be unencoded while I am trying to mix it into a
5.1
file, then encoded if I have been successful and have exported it to an
interleaved 5.1 mix for writing to DVD. In that case, it would be Dolby
Digital 5.1 - right? Is there any other 5.1 surround encoding scheme that
everyone can decode in their home theater? Or am I in for a licensing
problem and expense?

Gary



Not 'both'.

I think the concern was that you were allowing the DD eventual output
target factor to confuse things on the unrendered 5.1 project mixing and
monitoring side of things.

First things first !

geoff

How could I do that?

Gary


You seemed to be letting the Dolby Digital encoding stuff get in the way
of figuring out how to assign logical and physical output channels.
Where is actually has no bearing on the problem at all, as it is the end
result of your project only - irrelevant until all the 5.1 mixing is
done and dusted.

geoff

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/4/2016 12:01 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The first question here is.... are you trying to monitor the discrete unencoded
5.1 mix out of Audition, or are you trying to monitor the encoded and then
decoded Dolby Digital processed mix out of Audition?

And if it is the first, why are you mentioning Dolby Digital in the subject at
all?

As I understand it, Gary is trying to monitor the discrete channels
coming out of his multi-output sound card. Obviously this must be the
first step. Otherwise how would you know how what to send to each
surround channel? (though I've heard some surround sound that might have
been mixed only "by eye")

At this point, he seems to not be getting audio out of anything but the
front channels. I'm sure it's a matter of operator error, improper
configuration of the DAW program, or improper drivers installed or
selected. He'll probably stumble over the answer sooner or later.

I suppose that Dolby Digital (it never occurred to me that this is what
he meant by "DD5.1") is just the encoding system that's included with
Adobe Audition (AA). That's not the problem here, at least not yet.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
The first question here is.... are you trying to monitor the discrete
unencoded
5.1 mix out of Audition, or are you trying to monitor the encoded and then
decoded Dolby Digital processed mix out of Audition?

And if it is the first, why are you mentioning Dolby Digital in the
subject at
all?

I guess both - it would be unencoded while I am trying to mix it into a 5.1
file, then encoded if I have been successful and have exported it to an
interleaved 5.1 mix for writing to DVD. In that case, it would be Dolby
Digital 5.1 - right? Is there any other 5.1 surround encoding scheme that
everyone can decode in their home theater? Or am I in for a licensing
problem and expense?

That's two processes. First you have to be able to mix it into 5.1 discrete
files, THEN you have to be able to convert that 5.1 file into a much lower
bandwidth AC-3 encoded file.

First get the first half working, then worry about the second half later.
I doubt you'll be able to do the second half with Audition.

Now, the truth is that a lot of home theatre systems can play back a variety
of formats including Dolby Digital and dts, and some of them can even play
back discrete PCM files (although you may find that you have to do the latter
as a DVD-A without video because of the required bandwidth).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[JackA]

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 3:27:24 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 4/04/2016 11:34 PM, None wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery, and
have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are made to
be broken.

You've been hooked by the Nazi jackass troll. Now you're a Nazi
supporter, like Magennis and others.



Surely Nazi jackass idiot trolls with profound ignorance and
inability/unwillingness to learn should occasionally be challenged ?
Hell, you've even got one who wants to be president ! (Guessing you are
USA).

geoff

You won't find power tools in German craftsmen tool boxes.
Sort of like my mastering, handcrafted and sculptured to perfection.

Jack

[JackA]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 7:34:25 AM UTC-4, None wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
...
I promised myself that I would stop replying to your ****wittery,
and have done well the last week or so. But I guess promises are
made to be broken.

You've been hooked by the Nazi jackass troll. Now you're a Nazi
supporter, like Magennis and others.

This sound like you...

"Your enemies in control attempt with their constant "anti-nazi" propaganda - to persuade you that "they" are your "real friends"".

Jack

[JackA]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 8:12:44 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 04/04/2016 11:53, JackA wrote:
On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 4:48:42 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:

However a perfectly valid 5.1 mix could even be made from just a single
mono track. Something like a bee buzzing around the room maybe, or a
racing car. Or a flautist wandering around while playing.

Oh, okay, for cinema mainly. I know it has (5) full frequency channels and (1) low frequency effects channel. I thought the idea behind music was to use (5) discrete tracks and (1) bass track and mix them. Should sound even better than stereo.

It sounds the way the mixer wants it to sound. It is an effect, just as
stereo is an effect.

To get the best out of it, you need a large listening room, and it needs
to be set up with much more care than it is for stereo.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

My point is, isn't 5.1 used for the ultimate reproduction of music, utilizing discrete tracks for the multiple channels? From what I know of Stereo, Surround Sound, screw Ray Dolby, should sound superior to even stereo mixes.

Jack

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/4/2016 12:01 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
The first question here is.... are you trying to monitor the discrete
unencoded
5.1 mix out of Audition, or are you trying to monitor the encoded and
then
decoded Dolby Digital processed mix out of Audition?

And if it is the first, why are you mentioning Dolby Digital in the
subject at
all?

As I understand it, Gary is trying to monitor the discrete channels coming
out of his multi-output sound card. Obviously this must be the first step.
Otherwise how would you know how what to send to each surround channel?
(though I've heard some surround sound that might have been mixed only "by
eye")

At this point, he seems to not be getting audio out of anything but the
front channels. I'm sure it's a matter of operator error, improper
configuration of the DAW program, or improper drivers installed or
selected. He'll probably stumble over the answer sooner or later.

I suppose that Dolby Digital (it never occurred to me that this is what he
meant by "DD5.1") is just the encoding system that's included with Adobe
Audition (AA). That's not the problem here, at least not yet.

Very good Mike. Thank you. Working on it - please stop all posts for a while
now.

Gary

[None]

"geoff" wrote in message
news:NM6dnakyOJxK9Z7KnZ2dnUU7-
Surely Nazi jackass idiot trolls with profound ignorance and
inability/unwillingness to learn should occasionally be challenged ?

You're not challenging him. You're encouraging him by doing exactly
what he wants you to do.

[Gary Eickmeier]

The Soundblaster people sent me a response that I just need to update a
driver for Windows 10, which I had already downloaded from one of their
sites, and that did it. I finally got the screen that lets me do the channel
mapping. So I opened up a 5.1 project, put my surround tracks in it, and
panned the tracks around into a 5.1 mix. I then output that to a 5 channel
mixdown and had a file that shows all 5 channels, did the fade in and fade
out, and now I am trying to figure out how to output that to a DD DVD. I
also have the ability to do DTS if I want. I know I have those CODECs on my
computer but just how to use them is next on the agenda.

Thanks for all the posts and help.

Gary Eickmeier