[Lord Valve]

I bought a ****load of miscellaneous stuff from a defunct Hammond
dealer yesterday, and down under a pile of schematics and old
Leslie speed switch housings was a pile of tubes.

In this pile was a pair of brand-new-looking Western Electric 300Bs.
No boxes, unfortunately, but they don't have a scratch on 'em, and
the getters and everything else I can eyeball from the outside look
perfect. The date codes are 913 and 252.

Since I'm not into the audiophile gear/market, and since I have
damn near zero experience with the 300B, I have a couple of
questions for you hi-fi tube-rollers:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?
I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.

2) How do I interpret those date codes?

Assistance appreciated, and anyone who might be interested
in these is welcome to make an offer - but I'd like to make sure
they're not junkers (doubtful, considering the physical condition)
before I go taking anyone's money. ;-)

Lord Valve
(not so) Expert (this time around)

[Lord Valve]

BTW, please don't E me at my Netcom addy - it's a spam trap, I hardly ever
check it. Use , and remove the MUNG.

LV




Lord Valve wrote:

I bought a ****load of miscellaneous stuff from a defunct Hammond
dealer yesterday, and down under a pile of schematics and old
Leslie speed switch housings was a pile of tubes.

In this pile was a pair of brand-new-looking Western Electric 300Bs.
No boxes, unfortunately, but they don't have a scratch on 'em, and
the getters and everything else I can eyeball from the outside look
perfect. The date codes are 913 and 252.

Since I'm not into the audiophile gear/market, and since I have
damn near zero experience with the 300B, I have a couple of
questions for you hi-fi tube-rollers:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?
I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.

2) How do I interpret those date codes?

Assistance appreciated, and anyone who might be interested
in these is welcome to make an offer - but I'd like to make sure
they're not junkers (doubtful, considering the physical condition)
before I go taking anyone's money. ;-)

Lord Valve
(not so) Expert (this time around)

[Peter Wieck]

Lord Valve wrote:

How to test a 300B?

They may be tested as a 2A3, but with 5V on the filament. This is
somewhat underloading the 300B, but if it lifts the meter within/near
the 'acceptable' range for the 2A3, it should be fine in general use.

I am sure someone here deeply into this Avatar of a tube has better
information, but on the two occasions that I had to test such a tube on
my 539B, the modified 2A3 test gave accurate information as it related
to actual use in the field.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[tubegarden]

Hi RATs!

Build the Ultimate Guitar amplifier!

God sent those WE bulbs to you for a reason, not a quick buck

A nice old strat will tell you everything you need to know about any
tubes

Besides, if they don't sound good, you can still sell them on Ebay. We
buy everything ...

Happy Ears!
Al

[Alan Douglas]

The date codes are 913 and 252.

Those are the first quarter of 1949 and the last quarter of 1952.

Alan

[Lord Valve]

Alan Douglas wrote:

The date codes are 913 and 252.

Those are the first quarter of 1949 and the last quarter of 1952.

Alan


Hey, thanks.

LV

[Ian Iveson]

Alan wrote:

The date codes are 913 and 252.

Those are the first quarter of 1949 and the last quarter of 1952.

Obviously.

cheers, Ian

[Phread]

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message oups.com...

François Yves Le Gal wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:46:08 GMT, Lord Valve wrote:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?

There are none, and a 752 is ill-fitted for testing 300B or most directly
heated tubes because of it's architecture : the grid signal is derived from
50/60 Hz AC mains and gets surimposed with the 50/60 Hz heater voltage.
Other testers used a HF - from 5 KHz upwards - signal for grid.

Hickok had special KS and RD testers built following Western Electric
specifications and exclusively supplied to WE and their partners. And guess
what : grid signal was HF...

I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.

Ditto.


If you are going to test a lot of these building a purpose built
tester/testbed amp would be the only way to get good data, though as he
says the WE variants of Hickoks were much better. I would verify they
have good filaments and no shorts, which can be done with a 5V bench
supply and an ohmmeter.

So, what's the ohmeter for? Checking the ohms of the 5V supply? ;-)

He he...

Fred

[Lord Valve]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

François Yves Le Gal wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:46:08 GMT, Lord Valve wrote:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?

There are none, and a 752 is ill-fitted for testing 300B or most directly
heated tubes because of it's architecture : the grid signal is derived from
50/60 Hz AC mains and gets surimposed with the 50/60 Hz heater voltage.
Other testers used a HF - from 5 KHz upwards - signal for grid.

Hickok had special KS and RD testers built following Western Electric
specifications and exclusively supplied to WE and their partners. And guess
what : grid signal was HF...

I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.

Ditto.


If you are going to test a lot of these building a purpose built
tester/testbed amp would be the only way to get good data, though as he
says the WE variants of Hickoks were much better. I would verify they
have good filaments and no shorts, which can be done with a 5V bench
supply and an ohmmeter.


Yeah, that's the first thing I did, after I finished LMBFAO about the $100 I paid
for a pile of "junk" that will wind up selling for around $5K by the time I get
done ebaying all of it. ;-)

I've already gotten a few e-mails from people who lurk this NG
(never seen any of 'em post, as far as I know - maybe they
just run Googles on "Western Electric 300B every so often),
and if the prices the damn things have been going for on ebay
are any indication, I'm gonna smile some more before it's all
over.

I have a purpose-built rig that I match octal power tubes
on, and one for EL84s - I had to; "tube testers" are damn near
useless for checking stuff that's going to get the livin' crap
smacked out of it in guitar amps. I do so many octals, I
have to replace the sockets in my test rig every couple of
months. ;-)

Lord Valve
SCORE!

[Bob H.]

Lord Valve wrote:

Since I'm not into the audiophile gear/market, and since I have
damn near zero experience with the 300B, I have a couple of
questions for you hi-fi tube-rollers:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?
I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.


Hi

I use my Eico 666 to check 300B's as thus:

1) Use the 2A3 settings but with 5v filament.
2) Set grid to -10
3) 122 to 130 tests like new, based on 2 New Svetlana, 4 new Sovtek,
and 2 new standard Chinese 300B's.

2A3 settings:
grid 17 (set at 10)
plate 82
235111
111111
4
1
leak: 2 and 3
merit 2

Regards
Bob H.

[Peter Wieck]

Bob H. wrote:

I use my Eico 666 to check 300B's as thus:

1) Use the 2A3 settings but with 5v filament.
2) Set grid to -10
3) 122 to 130 tests like new, based on 2 New Svetlana, 4 new Sovtek,
and 2 new standard Chinese 300B's.

Yep.... Works on the 666 and any given Hickok. It ain't nohow perfect,
but it does give more information than a VOM.

But LV, being the jackass that he appears to be will not acknowledge
you. He is far more interested in his profit margin than much of
anything else. Not that profit is a bad thing by any means. But when a
question is asked and answered, a simple "got it" is most useful.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Lord Valve]

Thanks, dude.

LV




Bob H. wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:

Since I'm not into the audiophile gear/market, and since I have
damn near zero experience with the 300B, I have a couple of
questions for you hi-fi tube-rollers:

1) Anyone know the settings to test these on a Hickok 752?
I also have an Eico 666 which has the right socket on it, but
no test dope on that one's rollchart, either.

Hi

I use my Eico 666 to check 300B's as thus:

1) Use the 2A3 settings but with 5v filament.
2) Set grid to -10
3) 122 to 130 tests like new, based on 2 New Svetlana, 4 new Sovtek,
and 2 new standard Chinese 300B's.

2A3 settings:
grid 17 (set at 10)
plate 82
235111
111111
4
1
leak: 2 and 3
merit 2

Regards
Bob H.

[Lord Valve]

Peter Wieck wrote:

Bob H. wrote:

I use my Eico 666 to check 300B's as thus:

1) Use the 2A3 settings but with 5v filament.
2) Set grid to -10
3) 122 to 130 tests like new, based on 2 New Svetlana, 4 new Sovtek,
and 2 new standard Chinese 300B's.

Yep.... Works on the 666 and any given Hickok. It ain't nohow perfect,
but it does give more information than a VOM.

But LV, being the jackass that he appears to be will not acknowledge
you. He is far more interested in his profit margin than much of
anything else. Not that profit is a bad thing by any means. But when a
question is asked and answered, a simple "got it" is most useful.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I've been known to thank people who aren't total ****ing schmucks.

That wouldn't include you, son. As far as my profit margin goes,
damn right - I don't do this **** as a hobby. I've supported my
family with it for over a quarter of a century - so far. I'M IN IT
FOR THE MONEY! GASP! Ain't that awful?

Lord Valve
Evil, Avaricious Mother-****er


VISIT MY WEBSITE: http://www.nebsnow.com/LordValve
I specialize in top quality HAND SELECTED NOS and
current-production vacuum tubes for guitar and
bass amps. Good prices, fast service.
Authorized dealer for QSC amps, Sovtek/Electro-Harmonix,
Behringer, Hammond-Suzuki, Leslie, Rolls, Weber VST, etc.!


- Partial Client List -
* Derek Trucks (Allman Brothers Band/Derek Trucks Band) *
* Meatloaf * Catherine Wheel * Yo La Tengo * Let's Go Bowling *
* Kofi Burbridge (DTB) * Tod Smallie (DTB) * Susan Tedeschi *
* Roy Pritts (former head, Audio Engineering Society) *
* Rob Hyckys (guitarist for Commander Cody) * Waky Amps *
* Jamie McLean (guitarist for the Dirty Dozen Brass Band) *
* John Pierce (bassist for Huey Lewis and the News) *
* Rob Eaton (guitarist for Dark Star Orchestra) *
* Detroit Frank DuMont (guitarist, Frank DuMont and the Drivin' Wheels) *
* Coco Montoya * Clint Black * Bill McKay * Mojo Watson * Dick Dale *
* Fleetwood Mac * Tyrin Benoit * Eugene Fodor * Dale Bruning *
* Komet Amplification * Dr. Z * Maven Peal * Blockhead Amps *
* Jim Kelley * Balls Amplification * Roccaforte Amplifiers *
* Gerhart Amplification * Aiken Amplification * Germino Amplification *
* Lots More *

NBS Electronics, 230 South Broadway, Denver, CO 80209-1510
Phone orders/tech support after 1:30 PM Denver time at 303-778-1156

- Our 25th Year -

VISA - MASTERCARD - PAYPAL - DISCOVER

"It ain't braggin', if ya can do it." - Dizzy Dean

[Lord Valve]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:

Bob H. wrote:

I use my Eico 666 to check 300B's as thus:

1) Use the 2A3 settings but with 5v filament.
2) Set grid to -10
3) 122 to 130 tests like new, based on 2 New Svetlana, 4 new Sovtek,
and 2 new standard Chinese 300B's.

Yep.... Works on the 666 and any given Hickok. It ain't nohow perfect,
but it does give more information than a VOM.

But LV, being the jackass that he appears to be will not acknowledge
you. He is far more interested in his profit margin than much of
anything else. Not that profit is a bad thing by any means. But when a
question is asked and answered, a simple "got it" is most useful.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I've been known to thank people who aren't total ****ing schmucks.

That wouldn't include you, son. As far as my profit margin goes,
damn right - I don't do this **** as a hobby. I've supported my
family with it for over a quarter of a century - so far. I'M IN IT
FOR THE MONEY! GASP! Ain't that awful?

Lord Valve
Evil, Avaricious Mother-****er

I do everything I can to discourage non-DIYers from going near vacuum
tubes.

I don't give a rat's (or a RAT's, come to think of it) ass who buys 'em, as
long as they buy 'em. ;-)

And i work even harder at making guitar players feel like their
peckers are too small if they can't maintain their own equipment.

Nothing personal.

No offense taken.

I'm an organist. The only thing I find guitars useful for is
whacking drunken assholes in a bar fight. Les Pauls
are especially good for this, although nothing touches
the Hagstrom "Swede" when it comes to sheer bashing
power.

Nothing personal.


Lord Valve
Expert

VISIT MY WEBSITE: http://www.nebsnow.com/LordValve
I specialize in top quality HAND SELECTED NOS and
current-production vacuum tubes for guitar and
bass amps. Good prices, fast service.
Authorized dealer for QSC amps, Sovtek/Electro-Harmonix,
Behringer, Hammond-Suzuki, Leslie, Rolls, Weber VST, etc.!


- Partial Client List -
* Derek Trucks (Allman Brothers Band/Derek Trucks Band) *
* Meatloaf * Catherine Wheel * Yo La Tengo * Let's Go Bowling *
* Kofi Burbridge (DTB) * Tod Smallie (DTB) * Susan Tedeschi *
* Roy Pritts (former head, Audio Engineering Society) *
* Rob Hyckys (guitarist for Commander Cody) * Waky Amps *
* Jamie McLean (guitarist for the Dirty Dozen Brass Band) *
* John Pierce (bassist for Huey Lewis and the News) *
* Rob Eaton (guitarist for Dark Star Orchestra) *
* Detroit Frank DuMont (guitarist, Frank DuMont and the Drivin' Wheels) *
* Coco Montoya * Clint Black * Bill McKay * Mojo Watson * Dick Dale *
* Fleetwood Mac * Tyrin Benoit * Eugene Fodor * Dale Bruning *
* Komet Amplification * Dr. Z * Maven Peal * Blockhead Amps *
* Jim Kelley * Balls Amplification * Roccaforte Amplifiers *
* Gerhart Amplification * Aiken Amplification * Germino Amplification *
* Lots More *

NBS Electronics, 230 South Broadway, Denver, CO 80209-1510
Phone orders/tech support after 1:30 PM Denver time at 303-778-1156

- Our 25th Year -

VISA - MASTERCARD - PAYPAL - DISCOVER

"It ain't braggin', if ya can do it." - Dizzy Dean

[Lord Valve]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:



And i work even harder at making guitar players feel like their
peckers are too small if they can't maintain their own equipment.

Nothing personal.

No offense taken.

I'm an organist. The only thing I find guitars useful for is
whacking drunken assholes in a bar fight. Les Pauls
are especially good for this, although nothing touches
the Hagstrom "Swede" when it comes to sheer bashing
power.

Basses usually do even better.

My mother, all her sisters, and my sister-the oldest one-are all
church organists. They make pretty good money doing it. None of the men
in my family play organ. I have a little keyboard technique but not
enough to properly be a pianist or an organist. I was taught early on
an organist is someone who can use the pedals as well as the
manuals-most pop and jazz "organists" are keyboard players. At least
that's what they say.

Obviously, you have no hands-on experience with this.

Don't try to hang that classical-vs.-jazz snob **** on me, dude.
I have chops both ways, and the technique in each case
is formidable and not at all easily learned. Many jazz organists
can play pedals. Some of 'em would scare the crap outta
E. Power Biggs. "Finger bass" is also a highly developed
jazz technique, and anyone who's spent any time at all
listening to Groove Holmes, Joey DeFrancesco, Pat Bianchi,
Jimmy Smith et al knows what a powerful tool this is.

Tone wheel Hammonds are a lot of fun to tinker with but I feel sorry
for anyone who has to haul the heavy fragile *******s around.

Not necessary these days.

The Hammond-Suzuki XK-3 and the "new" B-3 (available in a
portable version) are rapidly replacing the oilers. They sound
*killer*.

I like
the Leslie better than I do the Hammond itself-it's really good for
guitars too. Don Leslie was a real character.

Did you know the first Hammonds were built out of junk or surplus
pianos? That's why they have piano manuals.

No, they don't.

Piano keys have lips on them. These lips will tear the
crap out of your hands if you attempt many of the jazz
techniques which the rounded, non-lipped, right-angle
drop-front traditional Hammond keys allow.

ORGANS have overhanging
keys so one may play both manuals on occasion.

Nothing about the "waterfall" keyboards precludes playing both manuals at
once.

Hammond, in fact, has built both types over the years.
Waterfall manuals are the standard for jazz - hands down.
Palm glissandos, smears, falls, etc. are close to impossible
on non-waterfall manuals. Rapid transition from one
manual to the other is actually facilitated by the waterfall
arrangement; few classical pieces require this - many
jazz pieces do. Spend some time eyeballing Jimmy
Smith, if you can find some video; his technique allowed
him to sound like three people were playing, as he ran
finger bass with his left hand, played "grunts" (and the
occasional line) with his feet, and stabbed chords in
the middle of the lower manual with his right hand in
between playing melody/riffs on the upper manual.


http://www.allenorgan.com/www/products/c-3a/c-3a.asp

Certainly a nice instrument for classical or theater players.

Classical organists have been in love with Allens for years.
I've never cared for them, but that's a matter of personal taste,
not because I find them "flawed" in any way. I'm more of
a jazz freak, and the Hammond rules that roost.

Lord Valve
Organist

[Sander deWaal]

"Bret Ludwig" said:


None of the men in my family play organ.


Now you're bending the truth, Bratwig.

I'm pretty sure you're playing with your organ every time someone
mentions the word McIntosh.

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[Lord Valve]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:

Lord Valve wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:



And i work even harder at making guitar players feel like their
peckers are too small if they can't maintain their own equipment.

Nothing personal.

No offense taken.

I'm an organist. The only thing I find guitars useful for is
whacking drunken assholes in a bar fight. Les Pauls
are especially good for this, although nothing touches
the Hagstrom "Swede" when it comes to sheer bashing
power.

Basses usually do even better.

My mother, all her sisters, and my sister-the oldest one-are all
church organists. They make pretty good money doing it. None of the men
in my family play organ. I have a little keyboard technique but not
enough to properly be a pianist or an organist. I was taught early on
an organist is someone who can use the pedals as well as the
manuals-most pop and jazz "organists" are keyboard players. At least
that's what they say.

Obviously, you have no hands-on experience with this.

Don't try to hang that classical-vs.-jazz snob **** on me, dude.
I have chops both ways, and the technique in each case
is formidable and not at all easily learned. Many jazz organists
can play pedals. Some of 'em would scare the crap outta
E. Power Biggs. "Finger bass" is also a highly developed
jazz technique, and anyone who's spent any time at all
listening to Groove Holmes, Joey DeFrancesco, Pat Bianchi,
Jimmy Smith et al knows what a powerful tool this is.

I never said they didn't. I've heard people do "Giant Steps" and
"Donna Lee" on the pedals.


Tone wheel Hammonds are a lot of fun to tinker with but I feel sorry
for anyone who has to haul the heavy fragile *******s around.

Not necessary these days.

The Hammond-Suzuki XK-3 and the "new" B-3 (available in a
portable version) are rapidly replacing the oilers. They sound
*killer*.

I like
the Leslie better than I do the Hammond itself-it's really good for
guitars too. Don Leslie was a real character.

Did you know the first Hammonds were built out of junk or surplus
pianos? That's why they have piano manuals.

No, they don't.

Piano keys have lips on them. These lips will tear the
crap out of your hands if you attempt many of the jazz
techniques which the rounded, non-lipped, right-angle
drop-front traditional Hammond keys allow.

I stand corrected.

ORGANS have overhanging
keys so one may play both manuals on occasion.

Nothing about the "waterfall" keyboards precludes playing both manuals at
once.

Hammond, in fact, has built both types over the years.
Waterfall manuals are the standard for jazz - hands down.
Palm glissandos, smears, falls, etc. are close to impossible
on non-waterfall manuals. Rapid transition from one
manual to the other is actually facilitated by the waterfall
arrangement; few classical pieces require this - many
jazz pieces do. Spend some time eyeballing Jimmy
Smith, if you can find some video; his technique allowed
him to sound like three people were playing, as he ran
finger bass with his left hand, played "grunts" (and the
occasional line) with his feet, and stabbed chords in
the middle of the lower manual with his right hand in
between playing melody/riffs on the upper manual.

I remember the Hammond exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Science and
Industry very well. I also own a M-3, but it gets little run time.


http://www.allenorgan.com/www/products/c-3a/c-3a.asp

Certainly a nice instrument for classical or theater players.

Classical organists have been in love with Allens for years.
I've never cared for them, but that's a matter of personal taste,
not because I find them "flawed" in any way. I'm more of
a jazz freak, and the Hammond rules that roost.


THe old Wurlitzer theater organs with their elaborate band boxes , to
me , were the really impressive thing. Hammonds always remind me, in
the end, of TV and especially radio preachers. And remember the spooky
intermission riff one of the TV networks used? It was a French deal
called an Ondes Martenot. THAT I'd like to have.


I thought it was called an "Ondioline."

Same thing as used for the instrumental solo on Del Shannon's
"Runaway," or am I thinking of something different?

Indeed, the Hammond was all over radio and TV - one
of the things I especially hated was soap operas. Damn
near put me off the (electronic) organ altogther, until
I heard a cut of Groove Holmes' "Misty" on WUST in
Washington, DC. That was all I needed. ;-)

LV