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#81
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"Randy Yates" wrote in message news Trevor, You've missed my point completely. I miss the nostalgia of the era. Fair enough, and I don't! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be anyway :-) Trevor. |
#82
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Trevor" wrote in message
u... And are still far inferiror in every technical aspect than a standard CD, *IF* the same music is put on both. Whether it is or isn't is simply a marketing choice. That's right Trevor. *IF* the same were put on both then so it may be *BUT* it's not! If you want to go on listening to far inferior recordings on a possibly better medium then it's up to you, but it's something you will never know as you have not listened to a recent LP. Yes they cost a few bob extra (but we weren't talking about the cost) but are in general far better recordings. Oh......and as far as availablility is concerned, nearly all are available on vinyl. In fact I first had to buy a CD player only 6 years ago as there was an album that came out that wasn't n vinyl, a month or two later it was. Ever since then I've been able to get them all. D |
#83
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
I do _NOT_ claim vinyl is better than CD. What I claim is _music_ put on vinyl is _USUALLY_ made (mixed, processed, whatever you call it) to higher quality. There are exceptions, of course, both ways but usually it is what happens. That creates a paradox -- better sound comes on a worse media. But that is _sound_ I personally care for, not intrinsic media quality. And that paradoxically makes vinyl a better media for me and a few like me despite the fact it is actually worse physical media... These are exactly my findings from the vast majority of albums that I have bought over the last few years. Yes you have to pay more but they ARE better mixes. I do not work in a recording studio but I don't have to be in the recording studio to fathom out which recording has been compressed more and which is more natural. I don't go to the lengths you do to convert my LPs to CD as I couldn't be bothered. What I do do though is buy the CD as well as they are a third the price of the LP. So I can make a direct comparison of the two mixes. Yes CD as a medium is superior to vinyl, we all know that, but LPs are in general better recordings. Obviously this is not the case for every recordings but I reckon easily as high as 90% of the albums that I have boought over the last few years. MadManMoon obviously has not bought an LP recently. His loss, our gain. Listen to the music not the media or player. D |
#84
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. The primary mistake all those proponents of wonderful digital sound make is assumption that analog audio ends at 20KHz. No such assumption has ever been made. What is known is that removing all audio above 20 KHz has no audible effects. It doesn't. It doesn't end even at 30KHz and higher. Its amplitude falls quite rapidly, yes, but there is no such an abrupt cutoff at 22KHz. Straw man argument. Another reason, totally unrelated, for 24/96 is that is a standard de-facto these days. Says who? It is one of several standards. 16/44 is the most widely used uncompressed format and 16/48 (video) is a little behind. Most audio that people listen to today has been lossy-compressed. |
#85
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"David" wrote in message ... That's right Trevor. *IF* the same were put on both then so it may be *BUT* it's not! If you want to go on listening to far inferior recordings on a possibly better medium then it's up to you, but it's something you will never know as you have not listened to a recent LP. No need, since I regualrly record, mix and/or master CD's myself. I could easily have it cut to vinyl IF there was a market, and the differences would be those required to suit the limitations of vinyl recording/playback. Something I prefer NOT to bother with any more. Yes they cost a few bob extra (but we weren't talking about the cost) but are in general far better recordings. Oh......and as far as availablility is concerned, nearly all are available on vinyl. In fact I first had to buy a CD player only 6 years ago as there was an album that came out that wasn't n vinyl, a month or two later it was. Ever since then I've been able to get them all. All of what YOU want maybe. But still about 1% or less of what's released on CD every year. Trevor. |
#86
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 03/01/2011 10:41 PM, Trevor wrote:
"Randy wrote in message news Trevor, You've missed my point completely. I miss the nostalgia of the era. Fair enough, and I don't! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be anyway :-) That's quite a jackass attitude you've got there. -- Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs 919-577-9882 http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#87
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus:
Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? -- The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago. - Usenet |
#88
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. -- Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs 919-577-9882 http://www.digitalsignallabs.com |
#89
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
That is exactly what some of us, including myself, are doing. As a matter of fact it is not just copying to a CD -- they are digitized in 24/96 and that digitized material is saved and listened to if conditions permit. For everyday use (such as plaing it in one's car or whatever) that material is downsampled to 16/44 and put on CDs. And I betcha they sound light ages better than commercial CDs with the same material. More likely they sound more to your expectaions, which may not necessary 'better' in terms of true fidelity to the master tape. geoff |
#90
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
Thanks for a suggestion but now, I won't do it. Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. The primary mistake all those proponents of wonderful digital sound make is assumption that analog audio ends at 20KHz. It doesn't. It doesn't end even at 30KHz and higher. Its amplitude falls quite rapidly, yes, but there is no such an abrupt cutoff at 22KHz. However hearing perception does, but generally much lower than that unless you are a child. And I betcha most of those beloved LPs have sweet FA above 15KHz coming off them. If you want to understand about waveforms and 'digital, google Nyquist theorum, which explains pretty well how lacking your basic understanding of the subject is. geoff |
#91
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
I do _NOT_ claim vinyl is better than CD. What I claim is _music_ put on vinyl is _USUALLY_ made (mixed, processed, whatever you call it) to higher quality. You mean compressed more so that you can hear the quieter stuff above the surface and preamp noise ? geoff |
#92
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Trevor" wrote in message
... "David" wrote in message ... That's right Trevor. *IF* the same were put on both then so it may be *BUT* it's not! If you want to go on listening to far inferior recordings on a possibly better medium then it's up to you, but it's something you will never know as you have not listened to a recent LP. No need, since I regualrly record, mix and/or master CD's myself. I could easily have it cut to vinyl IF there was a market, and the differences would be those required to suit the limitations of vinyl recording/playback. Something I prefer NOT to bother with any more. If you record mix and master the CDs yourself there would be absolutely no point whatsoever in having the recording cut to vinyl, as you have personally done the bit that so many record companies deliberately feck up. |
#93
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. Right. I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. |
#94
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Randy Yates" wrote in message
news You've missed my point completely. I miss the nostalgia of the era. I suspect that for most LP lovers, this is the unique attraction. |
#95
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:39:52 -0500, Dick Pierce
wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Randy Yates" wrote in message m On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. Right. I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. Are you saying that it's not possible? Here, take my shovel, dig up Mr. Fourier, tell him it's not possible. Take ANY amplitude-modulated waveform. Take it's Fourier transform. The result is some collection of continuous sine waves, n'est ce pas? Let's look at a simple case: a 1 kHz wave modulated by a 100 Hz envelope. That's three sine components, whose relative amplitudes are dependent upon the amount of modulation: one sitting at 900 Hz, one at 1000 Hz, and one at 1100 Hz. Y'know, sidebands, and all that? --- But that's true only for _modulation_, which is nonlinear mixing due to time-variable gain. In the case where a 100Hz and a 1000Hz signal were linearly mixed, (algebraically summed) the resulting spectrum would contain only a single line at 100Hz and another at 1000Hz. --- JF |
#96
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: "Randy Yates" wrote in message m On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. Right. I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. Are you saying that it's not possible? Here, take my shovel, dig up Mr. Fourier, tell him it's not possible. Take ANY amplitude-modulated waveform. Take it's Fourier transform. The result is some collection of continuous sine waves, n'est ce pas? Right - the needed memory jog - an amplitude modulated carrier has a certain spectrum. It picks up sidebands that are related to the modulating frequency. Let's look at a simple case: a 1 kHz wave modulated by a 100 Hz envelope. That's three sine components, whose relative amplitudes are dependent upon the amount of modulation: one sitting at 900 Hz, one at 1000 Hz, and one at 1100 Hz. Y'know, sidebands, and all that? Yup. Take a more complex waveform with a more complex envelope, and it's merely an extension of the same thing. Yup. I asked a question, you answered it. I'm embarassed to say that I once knew the answer but the fog of other battles, and all that. Thank you. |
#97
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"John Fields" wrote in
message But that's true only for _modulation_, which is nonlinear mixing due to time-variable gain. You can simulate modulation by adding other signals (the sidebands) by means of linear mixing. The over all process is nonlinear because new frequencies are added. But, the process that Dick described fit within my question about linear mixing. I didn't say that new frequencies couldn't be added. You're both right as long as you don't say that Dick is wrong, per my question. ;-) |
#98
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 03/03/2011 13:25, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Randy wrote in message m On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. Right. I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. A quick handwaving version of how you do it is to choose a suitable mixture of sinewaves centred around the fundamental and its harmonics with the phases tweaked to have a sharp attack and a slow decay around the peak envelope position and to cancel elsewhere. It would not be an efficient representation of a piece of music but it could be done. A more detailed explanation is that a multiplication of the signal in the time domain is a convolution in the frequency domain (and vice versa). That is amplitude modulation of a simple continuous carrier wave with or without harmonics can be achieved in the frequency domain by convolving with the Fourier transform of the envelope shape you want to impose. Shannons sampling theorem for a band limited function and the fact that the Fourier transform preserves all information allows a formal proof. ISTR in the late 70's there was an infamous near unplayable direct mastered vinyl record of the 1812 which featured on the cover an electron micrograph of the offending groove. It destroyed expensive styluses as well as playing through very few times before failing. Whilst you can produce an unplayable CD with laser readback it never damages the playback device though it might damage the speakers. Regards, Martin Brown |
#99
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:39:52 -0500, Dick Pierce
wrote: I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. Are you saying that it's not possible? Here, take my shovel, dig up Mr. Fourier, tell him it's not possible. Take ANY amplitude-modulated waveform. Take it's Fourier transform. The result is some collection of continuous sine waves, n'est ce pas? I have always had the impression that you needed something similar of a continuous waveform to get the FFT, trying to take the FFT of a single pulse does not make a lot sense. While the decaying part of the piano waveform could be simulated with a series of sine waves multiplied with a curve simulating the inversely exponentially dying out string oscillations, the attack part of the waveform is far more complicated. |
#100
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
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#101
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:11:26 -0500, Dick Pierce
wrote: John Fields wrote: On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:39:52 -0500, Dick Pierce wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Randy Yates" wrote in message news:BfWdndRN5L09kvLQnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@supernew s.com On 03/02/2011 09:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote: On 3/2/2011 5:09 PM Dick Pierce spake thus: Arny Krueger wrote: "Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message Music is _NOT_ a pure sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. Actually, every music wave form can be entirely represented as a collection of enveloped sine wave. Not even "enveloped" sine waves: simply sine waves. Yes. Just what is an "enveloped" sine wave anyway, pray tell? Amplitude-modulated. Right. I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves. Are you saying that it's not possible? Here, take my shovel, dig up Mr. Fourier, tell him it's not possible. Take ANY amplitude-modulated waveform. Take it's Fourier transform. The result is some collection of continuous sine waves, n'est ce pas? Let's look at a simple case: a 1 kHz wave modulated by a 100 Hz envelope. That's three sine components, whose relative amplitudes are dependent upon the amount of modulation: one sitting at 900 Hz, one at 1000 Hz, and one at 1100 Hz. Y'know, sidebands, and all that? --- But that's true only for _modulation_, which is nonlinear mixing due to time-variable gain. That's right, that's what he was asking about. --- He said: "I would like to hear how one simulates say piano notes by means of just linear mixing of continuous sine waves." Which isn't modulation, so heterodyning won't occur and no sidebands will be generated. In truth, to do what he asked would require all of the spectral components of the note, with their amplitude variations, to be mixed linearly, (summed algebraically with respect to time) which isn't modulation. --- JF |
#102
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 09:25:35 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "John Fields" wrote in message But that's true only for _modulation_, which is nonlinear mixing due to time-variable gain. You can simulate modulation by adding other signals (the sidebands) by means of linear mixing. --- Yes, of course, and that's the process you'd use to generate your simulated piano note, but it's not modulation and its attendant heterodyning. --- The over all process is nonlinear because new frequencies are added. --- If the new frequencies are added by linear mixing, then there can be no nonlinearity in the system, otherwise unwanted sidebands will be generated. --- But, the process that Dick described fit within my question about linear mixing. I didn't say that new frequencies couldn't be added. --- Yes, but with linear mixing, which you were asking about, any new frequencies can be added arbitrarily, without creating sidebands, while with modulation, which Dick was talking about, sidebands will be created over which you'll have little, if any, control. --- You're both right as long as you don't say that Dick is wrong, per my question. ;-) --- Well, you asked about linear mixing and he replied by stating that that would create sidebands, which it will not. :-) --- JF |
#103
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
John Fields wrote: You're both right as long as you don't say that Dick is wrong, per my question. ;-) Well, you asked about linear mixing and he replied by stating that that would create sidebands, which it will not. :-) NO I didn't. Someone asked about how continuous sine waves can have an envelope, someone else described it as "amplitude modulate" and I simply described one case as an example where an amplitude-modulated waveform can be decomposed into component, continuous sine waves. I never attempted or intended to describe how the process of modulation takes place, only how a collection of component sine waves can lead to that result. The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. |
#104
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 2011-03-03 13:13:09 -0500, Kirk McElhearn kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com said:
On 2011-03-03 18:33:27 +0100, "Arny Krueger" said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. Sherry in Vermont |
#105
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Feb 26, 9:04*pm, MalcolmO wrote:
Most commercial recordings today are released in a form which is far less than "16-bit" in quality - they have been deliberately compressed during the mastering process to sound "louder". *They've been quashed, pummeled, clipped, gain-ridden, smelched, and squeezed down into a tiny dynamic range. And they wonder why we don't buy records! Wait. We don't? |
#106
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
Kirk McElhearn wrote:
On 2011-03-03 20:11:45 +0100, Sherry in Vermont said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. At least it was tea, not beer... Or spew ;-0 geoff |
#107
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 2011-03-03 14:29:19 -0500, Kirk McElhearn kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com said:
On 2011-03-03 20:11:45 +0100, Sherry in Vermont said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. At least it was tea, not beer... Kirk Nah - always driving the kids hither and yon... no beer for me unless we're staying home (only on Mondays thru the winter). I am a lightweight - one beer and I am tipy. I prefer bowls to beer, I can handle that better anyway. Sherry in Vermont |
#108
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On 2011-03-03 14:43:30 -0500, "geoff" said:
Kirk McElhearn wrote: On 2011-03-03 20:11:45 +0100, Sherry in Vermont said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. At least it was tea, not beer... Or spew ;-0 geoff Ewwwww! Sherry in Vermont |
#109
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Randy Yates" wrote in message ... You've missed my point completely. I miss the nostalgia of the era. Fair enough, and I don't! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be anyway :-) That's quite a jackass attitude you've got there. Better than being a humour impaired self righteous jackass I guess. Trevor. |
#110
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message ... Good analog gear will give you almost undistorted 10KHz square wave. What is the highest sine wave frequency that should be taken into the equation to make that 10KHz square wave to even remotedly resemble the original one? Right, but ever tried getting a 10kHz square wave from a vinyl record? Does it REMOTELY resemble a square wave? Obviously vinyl records are NOT "good analog gear" which is what most people discovered decades ago. Trevor. |
#111
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"geoff" wrote in message news Sergey Kubushyn wrote: That is exactly what some of us, including myself, are doing. As a matter of fact it is not just copying to a CD -- they are digitized in 24/96 and that digitized material is saved and listened to if conditions permit. For everyday use (such as plaing it in one's car or whatever) that material is downsampled to 16/44 and put on CDs. And I betcha they sound light ages better than commercial CDs with the same material. More likely they sound more to your expectaions, which may not necessary 'better' in terms of true fidelity to the master tape. Unfortunately many people cannot conceive of the idea that what "sounds better" to them, is NOT actually a more accurate reproduction of the original. Sad really. Trevor. |
#112
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"David" wrote in message ... If you record mix and master the CDs yourself there would be absolutely no point whatsoever in having the recording cut to vinyl, as you have personally done the bit that so many record companies deliberately feck up. No argument from me, and like many others I have lamented at the quality of some of the biggest selling CD's on the market. But obviously those buying Brittney Spears, Lady Ga Ga, Katy Perry etc. are happy, or not complaining enough, and I doubt they are looking for them on vinyl! However there are also many other recordings on CD that are actually OK, far more than is available on new vinyl IME. Trevor. |
#113
Posted to rec.music.gdead,rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.design
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message ... Good analog gear will give you almost undistorted 10KHz square wave. What is the highest sine wave frequency that should be taken into the equation to make that 10KHz square wave to even remotedly resemble the original one? Right, but ever tried getting a 10kHz square wave from a vinyl record? Does it REMOTELY resemble a square wave? Obviously vinyl records are NOT "good analog gear" which is what most people discovered decades ago. Yep, there is no clean 10KHz square wave from vinyl, I agree. But it is better than that abruptly cut at 22KHz. Actually both are very close to sine waves, except one has far more noise and distortion. 24/96 is way better, it covers all you can get from analog audio perfectly, no complaints. Right, but recording vinyl to 24/96 is only kidding yourself. Trevor. |
#114
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message ... More likely they sound more to your expectaions, which may not necessary 'better' in terms of true fidelity to the master tape. Unfortunately many people cannot conceive of the idea that what "sounds better" to them, is NOT actually a more accurate reproduction of the original. Sad really. Once again -- people listen to the _music_ , not the accurate reproduction or whatever is good on paper. If one likes unhealthy charred barbeque steak there is no reason to persuade him steam boiled vegetables and turkey meat is healthier Nobody has a problem with YOU listening to what YOU prefer, only the blanket claim that vinyl is the best source of music. Just the same as I don't care what others eat, as long as it's not illegal or unsustainable. Trevor. |
#115
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 12:33:27 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, Nope. Not by mixing. You have to MODULATE the AMPLITUDE of a "carrier" with the intended "signal".. Simply seeing something that appears to be "enveloped" does not mean that it is amplitude modulated. Linear summation does not get you there. |
#116
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
In article 2011030314114543658-sherry13@togethernet,
Sherry in Vermont wrote: On 2011-03-03 13:13:09 -0500, Kirk McElhearn kirkmc (at) mac (dot) com said: On 2011-03-03 18:33:27 +0100, "Arny Krueger" said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. Sherry in Vermont This is what happens when you let the deadheads in the with the techies! :-) |
#117
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 20:29:19 +0100, Kirk McElhearn kirkmc (at) mac
(dot) com wrote: On 2011-03-03 20:11:45 +0100, Sherry in Vermont said: The important point is that one can create an amplitude modulated (enveloped) signal by simple linear mixing of the right signals, or one can use that well-known nonlinear process called Amplitude Modulation. One also can also create a frequency modulated signal by simple linear mixing of a different and often far more complex collection of signals. But does it work in a barber shop? Kirk snort! Spewed tea all over my monitor. At least it was tea, not beer... Kirk Yeah, it's a sin to waste beer. John |
#118
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
SoothSayer wrote:
[...] You have to MODULATE the AMPLITUDE of a "carrier" with the intended "signal".. Simply seeing something that appears to be "enveloped" does not mean that it is amplitude modulated. Linear summation does not get you there. Time for a trigonometry refresher course: Modulation is multiplication of two signals, e.g., for sine waves cos A * cos B. A basic trigonometric identity tells us this is identical to: 0.5 cos(A+B) - 0.5 cos(A-B), which is a simple linear sum of sine waves. In conclusion, your assertion that linear summation can't get you a modulated waveform is wrong. Jeroen Belleman |
#119
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:55:23 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
wrote: SoothSayer wrote: [...] You have to MODULATE the AMPLITUDE of a "carrier" with the intended "signal".. Simply seeing something that appears to be "enveloped" does not mean that it is amplitude modulated. Linear summation does not get you there. Time for a trigonometry refresher course: Are you sure? Could it be semantics? Modulation is multiplication of two signals, e.g., for sine waves cos A * cos B. Funny, I thought modulation was using one signal to control the amplitude of another signal. Multiplication? A basic trigonometric identity tells us this is identical to: 0.5 cos(A+B) - 0.5 cos(A-B), which is a simple linear sum of sine waves. Is it identical? Are you saying "sum" or "multiply"? They are different words. You should choose one. In conclusion, your assertion that linear summation can't get you a modulated waveform is wrong. The 'waveform' is not what is required to be modulated to qualify as AM. The amplitude of a carrier has to be modulated by the second signal. Simple summation of the two signals is a summated pair of sine waves. Shows up a little different on the scope. Besides, you said multiply, not sum. So, two tens gets you a hundred? Modulating the amplitude of one sine wave with the other is a different injection method. Two tens will get you twenty. |
#120
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24-bit on tap at Apple?
"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
OK, what is the spectrum of e.g. shattered glass sound or a gunshot? Ask your friendly neighborhood FFT. How high it goes when you strike high-hat or ride cymbal? Actually, cymbals are not really powerful sources of HF sound. They usually peak in the 8-10 KHz range and roll off at something like 12 dB/octave above that. What is the spectral width of even 1KHz square wave? Nearly infinite, but how is this relevant to audio? Good analog gear will give you almost undistorted 10KHz square wave. True. If you want very low distortion, the digital domain is where you go. What is the highest sine wave frequency that should be taken into the equation to make that 10KHz square wave to even remotedly resemble the original one? Do you mean "sounds like" or do you mean traces on the screen of an oscilliscope? |
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