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#41
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
David Nebenzahl wrote:
Come on, get real. I'm starting to think that the problem in this thread isn't that the O.P. is overthinking things, as Dick Pierce has surmised (or that he's just an idiot, per Meat Plow's usual conclusion). Well, if he is full of doubt and uncertainty, it's because people like you keep posting things that make him believe that he can't just replace the damned resistor with an ordinary power resistor and be done with it. So thanks for muddying the waters here. My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls Royce, would you bung in any old rubber belt, or get either the proper one, or one that fitted exactly ? We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones here.... geoff |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"geoff" wrote in message
David Nebenzahl wrote: Come on, get real. I'm starting to think that the problem in this thread isn't that the O.P. is overthinking things, as Dick Pierce has surmised (or that he's just an idiot, per Meat Plow's usual conclusion). Well, if he is full of doubt and uncertainty, it's because people like you keep posting things that make him believe that he can't just replace the damned resistor with an ordinary power resistor and be done with it. So thanks for muddying the waters here. My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls Royce, would you bung in any old rubber belt, or get either the proper one, or one that fitted exactly ? We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones here.... Ever look under the hood of a Rolls or other expensive car? The belts appear to be the usual off-the-shelf products. If a common good quality belt can last for 100,000 miles or more if properly installed and inspected and perhaps re-adjusted infrequently, why would these cars use or have anything else? |
#43
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Thanks Paul G.
Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami, Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let the forum know the result. Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have different opinion? I'm bring this subject here cause I'm a new hopefully will learn some thing from pro. If I already know what it is why bother. best regard, Jimmy P. |
#44
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"geoff" wrote in message
We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something that devalues them in any way. If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you turn the whole thing over to an authorized service facility. I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of the discussion. The technical advice has been very good and very pragmatic, but it does not seem to be meeting some people's psychic needs. There's nothing wrong with spending money this way, if the anxiety or concerns about local skills gets to be too much. |
#45
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"geoff" wrote in message
Mr.T wrote: adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so. Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are different and the resistors would have to be matched to THAT driver IF you think it's THAT critical. The only way would be to properly test it, which is obviously beyond the OP. The original pair of speakers would be matched to around 0.5dB. Why not do it right, or get somebody competent to do it ? Given the natural acoustic variations in the room, this level of matching while laudible, probably has very little practical value. |
#46
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
On 5/20/2010 6:05 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:
"geoff" wrote in message We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something that devalues them in any way. If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you turn the whole thing over to an authorized service facility. I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of the discussion. The technical advice has been very good and very pragmatic, but it does not seem to be meeting some people's psychic needs. There's nothing wrong with spending money this way, if the anxiety or concerns about local skills gets to be too much. You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what they are here; we're dealing with the hand-wringing anxiety of the under-informed audiophool who lives in mortal fear of the degradation of sound from their expen$ive equipment. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#47
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com On 5/20/2010 6:05 AM Arny Krueger spake thus: "geoff" wrote in message We are talking about speaker that cost over $10K here, so I think it would be sacrilege to throw in something that devalues them in any way. If you take that approach to its logical conclusion, you turn the whole thing over to an authorized service facility. I sense that anxiety, not reason is driving one side of the discussion. The technical advice has been very good and very pragmatic, but it does not seem to be meeting some people's psychic needs. There's nothing wrong with spending money this way, if the anxiety or concerns about local skills gets to be too much. You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what they are here; we're dealing with the hand-wringing anxiety of the under-informed audiophool who lives in mortal fear of the degradation of sound from their expen$ive equipment. Exactly. |
#48
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
In article , guy25 wrote:
Thanks Paul G. Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami, Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let the forum know the result. Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have different opinion? I'm bring this subject here cause I'm a new hopefully will learn some thing from pro. If I already know what it is why bother. best regard, Jimmy P. A long series, but I'm shaking my head. Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time. greg |
#49
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
On 5/20/2010 6:03 AM guy25 spake thus:
Just like you said. The speaker resistor was burned out cause my friend abuse My system (i have party at home). The resistor got over heat and burn before it damage the drive (fusible) that why I'm so careful when trying to match. I order some from Liberty Electronic Inc. in Miami, Florida with Matching Ohm and watt. After resistor replaced I'll let the forum know the result. As has been pointed out by others with *far* more knowledge than I have, that is *not* a fusible resistor. Your "friend" did indeed abuse your speakers, and you're lucky if there wasn't damage to the drivers (which were *not* protected by the resistor for reasons which have been exhaustively explained elsewhere). Once again I would like to express my sincerely thanks to everybody here have given out a lot of wonderful advice. But everybody have different understand, knowledge that's why people have their own opinion but why have to use hash word or be mad because the other have different opinion? Well, the reason there are sometimes harsh words is that some folk's opinions *are* better than others. I'm not even referring to my own, but to those of, say, Dick Pierce, who actually *knows* what he's talking about, instead of speculating. (You'll find a lot of speculation on Usenet, of course: comes with the territory.) So you need to adjust your filters accordingly when reading replies here. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#50
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"GregS" wrote in message
Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time. It seems like people who can afford $12,000 for speakers for serious music lisetning, could also afford say $1200 for some good DJ or other live sound speakers. They'd get louder and cleaner, and they'd take the use without considering it abuse. May I recommend a pair of Electrovoice ZX-4s? |
#51
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... The question isn't really whether the O.P. can handle the repair, but whether they're ready to quit overthinking the problem and just order the damned resistor. That seems to be their problem. Well ordering the resistor doesn't help a lot if he can't "handle the repair" does it? Simply finding someone who CAN fix it for him is probably a far better option in this case. MrT. |
#52
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"geoff" wrote in message ... My way of 'real' thinking is that if you have a ZRolls Royce, would you bung in any old rubber belt, or get either the proper one, or one that fitted exactly ? I can assure you *many* Rollers have non standard parts fitted to them. Some of which actually *improve* the vehicle. We are not talking about fixing a pair of Auratones here.... And we're not talking about the drivers either. B&W do not make their own resistors after all. MrT. |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"GregS" wrote in message ... We have no idea of what the speaker did without looking and testing all components. I don't think the OP will do this, and he will likely still have problems. As I and many others have pointed out frequently. I worked a little with poly switches. You can get both negative and positive devices. It critical to know the the trip current of the device and also the exact Z of the drivers. They are tricky, are not foolproof, and can also interefere the performance. Sure, but are still far better at protecting a speaker than a 7W resistor! I have seen sand power resistors get awfull looking yet still work. I would rather use fire proof resistors at times than carbon or film resistors, which thae later seem to be in abundance in my parts bin. 7W carbon or film resistors are not real common however. And I've never heard of a "sand" resistor, perhaps you really mean the common wire wound types? MrT. |
#54
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message You're probably not wrong, and let's call things what they are here; we're dealing with the hand-wringing anxiety of the under-informed audiophool who lives in mortal fear of the degradation of sound from their expen$ive equipment. Exactly. But we still have no idea why he simply didn't take it to an authorised B&W repair centre in the first place, rather than posting for information here that he seems unable to use anyway! MrT. |
#55
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"geoff" wrote in message ... adjacent speaker, and match the resistance to within 1% or so. Which contradicts your premise since the drivers are different and the resistors would have to be matched to THAT driver IF you think it's THAT critical. The only way would be to properly test it, which is obviously beyond the OP. The original pair of speakers would be matched to around 0.5dB. Perhaps, but you do realise that does not require the resistors to be matched to 1% in any case? Not to mention the resistors may be selected to provide the matching rather than the drivers, thus making your idea pointless. Why not do it right, or get somebody competent to do it ? As I have said all along! MrT. |
#56
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
7W carbon or film resistors are not real common however. And I've never heard of a "sand" resistor, perhaps you really mean the common wire wound types? In the 1950s or 1960s some ceramic-coated wirewound resistors were dipped in sand before the coating was baked. Most of the sand adhered, but sometimes some of it would rub off when handled or shipped. I'm not sure why this was done. |
#57
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
Dick Pierce wrote:
You can make any claim you want. But, for myself, having designed several hundred networks and having measured a few thousand, including specifically running component sensivity studies, I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that your speculations come unaccompanied by any credible support. OK so B&W (and KEF and.....) go to the trouble for nothing. All I said was that as there is very little effort invloved, why not get the right value part and stick it in ? geoff |
#58
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
On 5/23/2010 2:17 AM geoff spake thus:
Dick Pierce wrote: You can make any claim you want. But, for myself, having designed several hundred networks and having measured a few thousand, including specifically running component sensivity studies, I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that your speculations come unaccompanied by any credible support. OK so B&W (and KEF and.....) go to the trouble for nothing. All I said was that as there is very little effort invloved, why not get the right value part and stick it in ? Absolutely, the OP *should* get the right value part and install it. That's what we've been saying all along. Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in using a higher-power resistor. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#59
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
David Nebenzahl wrote:
Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in using a higher-power resistor. Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a resistor -10% won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But he'll say he never suggested any such thing. geoff |
#60
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
Dick Pierce wrote:
A couple of milliseconds at 5.5 amps, and a tweeter voice coil is smoke. Try dumping 5.5 amps into a woofer voice coil near resonance: the voice coil could be completely mashed aginst the back plate of the magnet within a fraction of a second. Just curious - how many real, continuous Watts can a typical tweeter (or woofer) voice-coil dissipate, without being damaged? Apparently, a lot less than what their "music power" ratings might suggest. |
#61
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
GregS wrote:
Try a pair of Cerwin Vega's for the party next time. Or do what I do, when I really want to "let it rip" - switch in a crossover that sends the lows to some big whomping subwoofers, saving the mains from the abuse. |
#62
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
Dick Pierce wrote:
geoff wrote: David Nebenzahl wrote: Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in using a higher-power resistor. Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a resistor -10% won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But he'll say he never suggested any such thing. Probably because, in fact, he didn't say any such thing. What he DID say is that in particular circumstances, a wide tolerance in value will have negligable effects on actual performance, Which applies for many things - so why bother to put any effort into making anything good ? even to the point of being unmeasurable. I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap multimeter. geoff |
#63
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus:
Dick Pierce wrote: geoff wrote: David Nebenzahl wrote: Meaning the right *resistance* value. Not necessarily the same *wattage*. Since it's been pretty well established that this is NOT a fusible resistor that can "protect" the drivers, there's no harm in using a higher-power resistor. Naa, Dick suggests indirectly that (say) a cap +10% and/or a resistor -10% won't compromise any paramter of a crossover design. But he'll say he never suggested any such thing. Probably because, in fact, he didn't say any such thing. What he DID say is that in particular circumstances, a wide tolerance in value will have negligable effects on actual performance, Which applies for many things - so why bother to put any effort into making anything good ? even to the point of being unmeasurable. I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap multimeter. Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the system, not just the value of the component. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#64
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus: I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap multimeter. Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the system, not just the value of the component. You think he understands the difference? MrT. |
#65
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
On 5/31/2010 2:08 AM Mr.T spake thus:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message .com... On 5/30/2010 2:14 AM geoff spake thus: I think you could measure the differences in my example with a cheap multimeter. Oh, come on, you're playing semantics games here. You know damn well that he (Dick Pierce) was referring to measuring the performance of the system, not just the value of the component. You think he understands the difference? I wonder ... -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#66
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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B&W 801 series 2 crossover
Dick Pierce writes:
[...] (Fantastic story and information skipped) Why does it matter? Simply operate the damned thing in a reasonable range and be done with it. If you need more, seek another system configuration. -- Randy Yates % "And all that I can do Digital Signal Labs % is say I'm sorry, % that's the way it goes..." http://www.digitalsignallabs.com % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELO |
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