1. tube amps
2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)


I have even heard that some people will pay more than $200 for a solid state
amp?

crazy!!

"the barefoot sage" wrote in message
...

1. tube amps
High output impedance, grossly over priced, distortion devices

2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)
Accurate, low output impedance low distortion devices.

I have even heard that some people will pay more than $200 for a solid
state amp?

crazy!!
Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500 160wpc
Signature amp for $179.99.

Still not as crazy as spending anything over $12.00 for a glowing bottle
device.

wrote in message
ink.net...

"the barefoot sage" wrote in message
...

1. tube amps
High output impedance, grossly over priced, distortion devices

2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)
Accurate, low output impedance low distortion devices.

I have even heard that some people will pay more than $200 for a solid
state amp?

crazy!!
Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500 160wpc
Signature amp for $179.99.

I have Berry speakers, the B2030A's. They rock, but only for production
purposes. They sound crisp, sharp, detailed, but they lack that music that I
want to hear. Very loud they are, but not so nice to hear. They rock my
world and make my neighbors complain but do not rock my soul.

Tube amps are not necessarily distortion generators- a properly designed amp
will be flat and juicy. Get back to your remedial electronics- it's all
about voltage and the power supply. I don't hear any egregious distortion
with any old broken down tube amp that has a decent supply and good
connections to the rails. When the juice is there, the sound is there. Just
because there are models that don't have the good design required, doesn't
mean that all tube amps are bad. What do you think guitars play through?
Mostly tube stuff. Tubes will be around for many years. In fact they have a
great use in the scientific world, in the form of photon collectors. Tubes
are going to be around for many years to come, and you would be well advised
to get on board with thermionic technology.

And that's all I have to say about that. ;-)

"tubeguy" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
ink.net...

"the barefoot sage" wrote in message
...

1. tube amps
High output impedance, grossly over priced, distortion devices

2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)
Accurate, low output impedance low distortion devices.

I have even heard that some people will pay more than $200 for a solid
state amp?

crazy!!
Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500
160wpc Signature amp for $179.99.

I have Berry speakers, the B2030A's. They rock, but only for production
purposes. They sound crisp, sharp, detailed, but they lack that music that
I want to hear. Very loud they are, but not so nice to hear. They rock my
world and make my neighbors complain but do not rock my soul.

Tube amps are not necessarily distortion generators- a properly designed
amp will be flat and juicy.

Possible, but there seems to be these SET thingies.

Get back to your remedial electronics- it's all
about voltage and the power supply. I don't hear any egregious distortion
with any old broken down tube amp that has a decent supply and good
connections to the rails.

Part of the attraction to tube amps, is that when they clip, they do it in a
way that is much less harsh sounding than a SS amp. This is because tubes
driven to clipping produce sine waves that still look like sine waves. SS
amps by comparison just chop off the top and bottom of the wave, result,
sounds like hell. Fortunately, SS power is much cheaper and more reliable.

When the juice is there, the sound is there. Just
because there are models that don't have the good design required, doesn't
mean that all tube amps are bad.

I would never say all are bad, but their cost vs. performance ration is not
good, and there are many really expensive ones that are just awful. WAVAC.

What do you think guitars play through?

That's different, that's for making music not playing it back. Thye use the
distortion produced by tubes being clipped to get a particular kind of
sound. If you want to hear it exactly as the guitarist played it, it's
better to do it with SS.

Mostly tube stuff. Tubes will be around for many years. In fact they have
a great use in the scientific world, in the form of photon collectors.
Tubes are going to be around for many years to come, and you would be well
advised to get on board with thermionic technology.

And that's all I have to say about that. ;-)
Enjoy what you like.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:48:13 GMT, wrote:

When the juice is there, the sound is there. Just
because there are models that don't have the good design required, doesn't
mean that all tube amps are bad.

I would never say all are bad, but their cost vs. performance ration is not
good, and there are many really expensive ones that are just awful. WAVAC.

When you listened to this amp, what was it about the sound that made
you think that is was awful? And what speakers did you use when you
auditioned it?

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:58:54 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:48:13 GMT, wrote:

When the juice is there, the sound is there. Just
because there are models that don't have the good design required, doesn't
mean that all tube amps are bad.

I would never say all are bad, but their cost vs. performance ration is not
good, and there are many really expensive ones that are just awful. WAVAC.

When you listened to this amp, what was it about the sound that made
you think that is was awful? And what speakers did you use when you
auditioned it?

Mike, I'm still interested in the question. Care to elaborate?

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:48:13 GMT, wrote:

When the juice is there, the sound is there. Just
because there are models that don't have the good design required,
doesn't
mean that all tube amps are bad.

I would never say all are bad, but their cost vs. performance ration is
not
good, and there are many really expensive ones that are just awful.
WAVAC.

When you listened to this amp, what was it about the sound that made
you think that is was awful? And what speakers did you use when you
auditioned it?

I have not auditioned it and never will, I already know what distortion
sounds like and I want no more of it.

wrote:

Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500 160wpc
Signature amp for $179.99.

I'd like to hear more about these amps. They have such simple
circuits, I'm very curious to listen to one. They are so cheap, it's
affordable to try. My idea of fun!

" said:

Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500 160wpc
Signature amp for $179.99.

I'd like to hear more about these amps. They have such simple
circuits, I'm very curious to listen to one. They are so cheap, it's
affordable to try. My idea of fun!


Is that you, Norm? ;-)

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
" said:

Only the ones that aren't smart enough to purchase a Behringer A500
160wpc
Signature amp for $179.99.

I'd like to hear more about these amps. They have such simple
circuits, I'm very curious to listen to one. They are so cheap, it's
affordable to try. My idea of fun!


Is that you, Norm? ;-)


No, his fun money limit stops at $25.

"the barefoot sage" wrote in message
...

1. tube amps
2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)


I have even heard that some people will pay more than $200 for a solid
state amp?

crazy!!

You haven't heard the best. Silicon can rival thermionics today, and that's
not the way it used to be. I love the sound of tubes, but a properly
designed transistor amp will run right along with the tubes today. I heard
this in the form of a Levinson setup- it was some symphony stuff I never
heard before, and I walked in on this setup with no expectations. The first
thing I noticed was that the orchestra was miked from above. I heard the
actual sound of being above the orchestra, hanging above it- the effect was
just mesmerizing. It was then that I realized that tubes and transistors
have to occupy the same landscape- that of extreme accuracy. The solid-state
amp I heard was so transparent, so melodical, so true-to-life, I was just
blown away.

But tubes are awesome, never diss the vacuum. Transistors can hold their own
these days, if you are willing to pay for it. However I will always fall
back on my old Dyna ST70. There's something about it- can't put my finger on
it but it is just nice. I don't have the means to acquire some Klipsch
corner horns or some radical plastic/fiberglass horn thing, but I will still
make time for the Dyna. Vinyl and tubes, that is what music is made of to
me. Maybe I'm just old and stuck in my ways, but I've heard what's out
there, and I like my tubes. If I could drop thousands on some Levinson stuff
I would. Don't get me wrong. But there is so much joy in records and
glass....I just can't see wanting for more.

tubeguy wrote:
"the barefoot sage" wrote in message
...

1. tube amps
2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid state)

Bull****.


You haven't heard the best. Silicon can rival thermionics today, and that's
not the way it used to be.

This is true. Some solid state amps are very good sounding. Most use
moderate amounts of NFB and simple circuits, relatively speaking.
Twenty years ago there were few if any first rate solid atate amps
commercally available, possibly excepting Threshold.

I love the sound of tubes, but a properly
designed transistor amp will run right along with the tubes today. I heard
this in the form of a Levinson setup- it was some symphony stuff I never
heard before, and I walked in on this setup with no expectations. The first
thing I noticed was that the orchestra was miked from above. I heard the
actual sound of being above the orchestra, hanging above it- the effect was
just mesmerizing. It was then that I realized that tubes and transistors
have to occupy the same landscape- that of extreme accuracy. The solid-state
amp I heard was so transparent, so melodical, so true-to-life, I was just
blown away.

Hopefully he's better at amp design than sex. (Levinson authored a sex
manual with his then-wife, Kim Cattrall: they broke up soon
thereafter.)

But tubes are awesome, never diss the vacuum. Transistors can hold their own
these days, if you are willing to pay for it. However I will always fall
back on my old Dyna ST70. There's something about it- can't put my fingeron
it but it is just nice. I don't have the means to acquire some Klipsch
corner horns or some radical plastic/fiberglass horn thing, but I will still
make time for the Dyna.

The stock Dyna is a truly godawful amp. Modded ones can sound halfway
decent, but the limiting factor is the relatively poor OPTs. It is
impossible to build a really good tube amp around Dyna iron. The better
UTC, Acro or Peerless iron, or properly cloned Marantz or Freed
designs, can be the heart of world class tube amps. I have heard good
things about some Tamura and Lars Lundahl designs but no personal
experience.

Klipschhorns and the junior versions (La Scalas and Belle Klipsches)
can be had reasonable if you look. The price has started going up
because people use the Klipsch lowers with other midrange and tweeters
to produce listenable speakers. You could build your own if you were a
good carpenter, I mean it has to be easier than a Riva boat or a Falco!

This is true. Some solid state amps are very good sounding. Most use
moderate amounts of NFB and simple circuits, relatively speaking. Twenty
years ago there were few if any first rate solid atate amps commercally
available, possibly excepting Threshold.

I love the sound of tubes, but a properly
designed transistor amp will run right along with the tubes today. I
heard this in the form of a Levinson setup- it was some symphony stuff I
never heard before, and I walked in on this setup with no expectations.
The first thing I noticed was that the orchestra was miked from above. I
heard the actual sound of being above the orchestra, hanging above it-
the effect was just mesmerizing. It was then that I realized that tubes
and transistors have to occupy the same landscape- that of extreme
accuracy. The solid-state amp I heard was so transparent, so melodical,
so true-to-life, I was just blown away.
**Hopefully he's better at amp design than sex. (Levinson authored a
sex manual with his then-wife, Kim Cattrall: they broke up soon
thereafter.)
But tubes are awesome, never diss the vacuum. Transistors can hold their
own these days, if you are willing to pay for it. However I will always
fall back on my old Dyna ST70. There's something about it- can't put my
finger on it but it is just nice. I don't have the means to acquire some
Klipsch corner horns or some radical plastic/fiberglass horn thing, but
I will still make time for the Dyna.
**The stock Dyna is a truly godawful amp. Modded ones can sound
halfway decent, but the limiting factor is the relatively poor OPTs. It
is impossible to build a really good tube amp around Dyna iron. The
better UTC, Acro or Peerless iron, or properly cloned Marantz or Freed
designs, can be the heart of world class tube amps. I have heard good
things about some Tamura and Lars Lundahl designs but no personal
experience.
**Klipschhorns and the junior versions (La Scalas and Belle
Klipsches) can be had reasonable if you look. The price has started
going up because people use the Klipsch lowers with other midrange and
tweeters to produce listenable speakers. You could build your own if you
were a good carpenter, I mean it has to be easier than a Riva boat or a
Falco!
======================================
Threshold? I never even heard of Threshold 20 years ago. Of course,
folks like McIntosh made absolute crap 20 years ago, correct?

Klipschhorns, and the like I never cared for personally. I never heard a
one with what I felt was accurate, clean reproduction. They all sounded
colored to me. Sure, I've heard of people doing all sorts of mods to
them, but really, what's the point? Wouldn't it be better, and easier
to just buy a speaker that does things right in the first place? Mark

va boat or a
Falco!
======================================
Threshold? I never even heard of Threshold 20 years ago. Of course,
folks like McIntosh made absolute crap 20 years ago, correct?

Folks like McIntosh made what they have always made, attractively
packaged, great specs, relatively low build cost, basically high
feedback Class B PA-style amplifiers.


Klipschhorns, and the like I never cared for personally. I never heard a
one with what I felt was accurate, clean reproduction. They all sounded
colored to me. Sure, I've heard of people doing all sorts of mods to
them, but really, what's the point? Wouldn't it be better, and easier
to just buy a speaker that does things right in the first place?

Many people feel that Klipsches do things the right way, particularly
in the mid to upper bass regions. They have used phenolic diaphragm
horn drivers which were okay forty years ago but have been drastically
improved on.

I'll agree somewhat Bret, that yes, McIntosh perhaps is still in the
stone age, with their Class B Amps, their big ole potted, clunky, boxy
Transformers (Seems all have switched to Torroidal), VU Meters galore,
in which not too many amps I've ever seen other than them have them
anymore (Except maybe for the Audio Research Reference 600 if I can
recall)

Many of them you needed a fork lift to move, but I can think of a few
other personal fav amps that are basically no different when it comes to
weight (Levinson #33, Krell FPB-600, and 650)

I don't know if I'd call many of the Macs PA Amps, :-) but if you threw
$30-50K in my hands, I could probably think of a good 1/2 dozen Amps I'd
prefer over any the Macs, past, or present.

Same with the Klipschorns. If you gave me a pair, I don't think I'd be
throwing them in the alley, lol, and I'll agree that they were a
timeless design, one in which even JBL somewhat "copied" with Speakers
like their old Heartfield, and Paragon.

I've heard some Threshold Amps if I remember correctly, about 5 years
ago, at Audio Consultants in Chicago (T400 was one of the models I
think?). They were driving a pair of now discontinued Wilson Witt
Speakers. Very nice indeed.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com
va boat or a
Falco!
======================================
Threshold? I never even heard of Threshold 20 years
ago. Of course, folks like McIntosh made absolute crap
20 years ago, correct?

Folks like McIntosh made what they have always made,
attractively packaged, great specs, relatively low build
cost, basically high feedback Class B PA-style amplifiers.

Glad to see that you posture from ludicrous positions as
well as ever, Bret.

"the barefoot sage" wrote in message

1. tube amps
2. harsh sounding amps that give me a headache (solid
state)

I have even heard that some people will pay more than
$200 for a solid state amp?

crazy!!

Troll, troll, troll.