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#1
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differences between CD players?
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? I
mean when you play the same song, on the same setting, on the same amp and all... I played a Cd on my computer, and my DVD player on the same amp and I can't tell any difference.... Just wonder what could justify a 1000 dollar CD player that only plays CD... -- TAI FU |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? **Depending on which players, yes. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players?
**Depending on which players, yes. What kind of differences, and are they measurable? |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "mc" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? **Depending on which players, yes. What kind of differences, and are they measurable? Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening test, very rarely. What kind of differences? Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the human ear? |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"mc" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? **Depending on which players, yes. What kind of differences, and are they measurable? Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening test, very rarely. MrT. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"mc" wrote in message ... What kind of differences, and are they measurable? Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening test, very rarely. What kind of differences? THD, IMD, converter linearity, impulse response, etc. Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the human ear? No, CD is limited to 22 kHz which is not that much above the human hearing range. Frequency response amplitude sensitivity far beyond that of the human ear will be necessary though to measure minute differences (in the vast majority of cases at least) in frequency response over the 20 Hz to 20 kHz bandwidth though. MrT. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty much always contributed inconsequentially to the sound - so long that it preforms according to the way it was intended to. It is MUCH harder now-a-days to detect any differences because DAC technology has become so much better, and available at a fraction (of a fraction!) of the cost that it used to be. I would GUESS that 'most' any player manufactured during the last couple of years would be indistinguishable from each other. I am sure SOMEBODY still sells players with (really cheap) obsolete first generation DAC chips however. |
#8
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differences between CD players?
"Jerohm" wrote in message
om "tai fu" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty much always contributed inconsequentially to the sound - so long that it preforms according to the way it was intended to. Agreed. All that has happened to transports is that they have become cheaper, smaller and lighter. It is MUCH harder now-a-days to detect any differences because DAC technology has become so much better, and available at a fraction (of a fraction!) of the cost that it used to be. Agreed. I would GUESS that 'most' any player manufactured during the last couple of years would be indistinguishable from each other. Unless it was mistraking a lot, or something like that. You can get some pretty odd sounds out of a player that is on the edge of mistracking. Surprisingly subtle, some times. I am sure SOMEBODY still sells players with (really cheap) obsolete first generation DAC chips however. I very much doubt it, those old first-generation parts from 1983 would be way too expensive to make today. DAC chips tend to have a relatively short lifespan in the marketplace - maybe 3-5 years. Anything you see for sale that is older than that, is probably NOS. The last time I dissassembled a very, very cheap DVD player (ca. $35), I found a Crystal Semiconductor 2-channel DAC chip that was rated at over 90 dB dynamic range, was flat within 0.05 dB or less up to 95% of Nyquist, and could handle sample rates up to 24/192. IME Crystal Semi parts IME generally meet spec. I'm sure that it cost the manufacturer less than $1.00. There was nothing in the audio path that could reasonably be expected to compromise this level of performance. The really big change in audio DAC chips occurred in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the market finished switching over to to sigma-delta technology. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:20:37 -0500, "mc"
wrote: "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message . au... "mc" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? **Depending on which players, yes. What kind of differences, and are they measurable? Measurable, absolutely. Audible under a proper bias controlled listening test, very rarely. What kind of differences? Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the human ear? Yes. Virtually all modern CD players are flat within 0.2dB from 20-20,000Hz, have noise floors more than 90dB below peak level, and have distortion of less than 0.01% across the entire audio band. That is *way* beyond the ability of the human ear to discriminate. Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is sound quality. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is sound quality. Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type that the listener has developed a taste for? |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
Jerohm wrote:
"tai fu" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? Yes and no. The actual mechanical 'mechanism' has pretty much always contributed inconsequentially to the sound - so long that it preforms according to the way it was intended to. I have to disagree with you here. There are some CD players who's transport mechanism is so noisy it brings the system's S/N down below what you can achieve on vinyl. I'm talking about mechanical noise here, not the signal that comes out the jack in the back, but really, what difference does it make? Noise is noise. Last time I auditioned CD player I listened to them with the stereo muted - the salesman thought I was crazy, but some were noiser than others. And some were quite audible even over the music. Esoteric high end models tended to be the worst offenders. -Walt |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"mc" wrote in message ... Can any of you guys hear differences between different CD or DVD players? **Depending on which players, yes. What kind of differences, and are they measurable? **I've heard and measured frequency response errors, which are well within the audible range. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"mc" wrote in message
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is sound quality. Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type that the listener has developed a taste for? Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept just about any kind of added distrotion as long as it sounds different and not too gross to them. SET's are an example of a broad appeal to this kind of mentality. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
Arny Krueger wrote:
"mc" wrote i "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type that the listener has developed a taste for? Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept just about any kind of added distrotion as long as it sounds different and not too gross to them. What's surprising is that this practice is not more widespread. It's long been a strategy of speaker manufacturers to add boom and sizzle to their products, and the boomy sizzly units often outsell their more accurate components. Why not do it with cd players and receivers too? If you think of the stereo store showroom floor as a Darwinian system, "fitness" is not what sounds best but what sells. It's surprising that CD players haven't "evolved" boosted high- and low- end frequency response. //Walt |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
"Walt" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: "mc" wrote i "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type that the listener has developed a taste for? Some listeners are "Differences Junkies". They'll accept just about any kind of added distrotion as long as it sounds different and not too gross to them. What's surprising is that this practice is not more widespread. It's long been a strategy of speaker manufacturers to add boom and sizzle to their products, and the boomy sizzly units often outsell their more accurate components. Why not do it with cd players and receivers too? Self discipline on the part of most (but not all) manufacturers. Stewart noted some CD players that have some added sizzle. SET power amps genearally add boom and sizzle. If you think of the stereo store showroom floor as a Darwinian system, "fitness" is not what sounds best but what sells. It's surprising that CD players haven't "evolved" boosted high- and low- end frequency response. See above. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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differences between CD players?
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:56:59 -0500, "mc"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message .. . Bizarrely, the only players which may well sound different are certain 'high end' models, such as from Audio Note or YBA, which are deliberately *broken*, just so that they will sound different from the 'common herd'. Fact is, so-called 'high-end' electronics (and of course cables) are an absolute waste of money if your criterion is sound quality. Ah, the notion of "sweetening the sound" by adding some distortion of a type that the listener has developed a taste for? Exactly. As with vinyl, SET amps and horn speakers which all introduce characteristic distortions, some 'high end' CD players introduce falling treble response via spline filters, the argument being superior transient response, while others eliminate the reconstruction filter for no apparent reason whatever. Both the above approaches allow large levels of anharmonic false images to fold down from the supersonic region into the audio baseband. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#17
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differences between CD players?
mc wrote:
What kind of differences? Treble splatting. Does measurement require equipment with frequency response far exceeding the human ear? Asked like that the response is "of course". Define the variable "measurement" in some way or other and the response gets to be "perhaps" or "no way". Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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