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#1
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Overcompression in music today :(((
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel |
#2
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no,
Daniel wrote: Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? You bought the record. Lots of other people bought it. It's overcompressed. Since so many people bought it, overcompression must be a good thing from the record company's standpoint. If you don't like it, and you want to make a point, TAKE IT BACK. Send it with a letter of complaint to the head of the label. The only way that the labels will stop with the insane loudaholism is if they somehow get the idea that people actually care about sound. It's our job to convince them, but we all need help. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually. The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?" -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#4
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Overcompression in music today :(((
| the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
| **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the | voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's | "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? I did a post here 2 weeks ago here asking on how an all tube signal path would work as recording studio for Country Blues Rock and for Classical Choral Acoustic musical genres but seemed not to have success.. I was wondering to have the hardware set up like(Ex. Guitar) Mictube preampmixer (or tube mixer I can do it) tube reel to reel recorder and the bring the master to the Vinyl company.. ....obviously Where the lack of dynamics needs we can put something ( as a good eq) solid state.. i think that the point is to mix the things to have a good sound (my aim and meaning of good sound is: "the good old Eagles albums" ... Im new to recording and im doing all this for myself and few friends so i'll appreciate any kind of discussion/suggestion. -- Bye, Paolo. |
#5
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record their most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they had made. The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the meters pegged. I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music. Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final product. Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine. Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy inserts or music. Ya gotta wonder. Richard |
#6
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Overcompression in music today :(((
Get a greese pencil for god's sake.
Does he know what that is? Tom "Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually. The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?" -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#7
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel _____________________ I was a "late follower" consumer of CDs - meaning I jumped on the bandwagon "almost" as fast as the trendsetting consumers. As such I own many CDs that were mainly created from what essentially were cleaned up LP masters. These inclued the two Eagles' Greatest Hits CDs, Steve Miller 1978-78, and VH II. These CDs are noticeably "quieter" than the aforementioned Pink and other CDs of the last 3 years. But when I ran them through my church mixer(after practice night!!), I noticed something about the mixer's meters when I cranked up the 70s reissues: They made that mixer's LED's jump up and down from -infinity up to almost clipping! Pink's Mizundastood, the meters hovered between -3 & +3dB, even when someone crashed a cymbal. Case in point: Due to over compression, today's recordings lack the dynamic vitality of those issued 10, 20, 30years ago. The sound of todays artists is not allowed to pass through, and it sounds bland by comparison. -ChrisCoaster |
#8
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Overcompression in music today :(((
What if people started an email campaign. It seems the industry is
feeling the hurt currently and is a tiny bit vulnerable, though they are blaming everything on internet piracy. Maybe executives would start to listen if music professionals and consumers bombarded them with emails. It's got to start somewhere. I know it's cool to be all jaded and complain, but there are a lot of people who read this newsgroup and others in audiophile and music fan groups too. It probably wouldn't be hard to generate 100,000 emails or more. If you don't like it, and you want to make a point, TAKE IT BACK. Send it with a letter of complaint to the head of the label. The only way that the labels will stop with the insane loudaholism is if they somehow get the idea that people actually care about sound. It's our job to convince them, but we all need help. --scott |
#9
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05...
"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually. The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?" Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
#10
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Overcompression in music today :(((
On 16 Oct 2003 13:08:41 -0700, (ChrisCoaster) wrote:
VH II through my church mixer LOL! |
#11
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Overcompression in music today :(((
I just finished a recording of electronic music for CD. Its more or less a
vanity project, my first CD as opposed to cassette and I decided to "master" it myself , although I have no illusions about my abilities as such (I simply wanted to stay DIY and learn more). It is not dance music, it is more akin to "classic" or "so called "academic" electronic music so, theoretically, I didn't feel the need to over compress. Once I started "mastering", however, I realized how accustomed to hearing over compressed music I had become. Since I had put a couple of months between composing and recording and this final step I constantly had to check myself to maintain an ear for dynamic content. I had to remind myself that I WANTED quiet moments. For better or worse, I decided to only do a little bit of EQ on one piece to tame some frequency content that wasn't working (the four pieces are based upon frequency and timbre as opposed to harmony melody and rhythm so I wasn't concerned about using as much EQ as needed which still ended up being very little), a very small bit of sonic maximizing, and 2.5:1-3:1 multi-band compression (very little by today's standards from what I understand). I then matched levels, called it a day, and started burning. I have read several articles, interviews and posts on the topic of over compressing the dynamic range of current music and tried to be diligent about avoiding such convention. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be but the end result seems to be a CD that has a wide dynamic range that fits the music. I am hoping that the growing awareness of over compression and dissatisfaction with record industry's output in general will encourage independent artists to break with current conventions and begin demanding that the dynamic integrity of their work be maintained throughout the recording and manufacturing process. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic but it would be nice to start hearing the "music" instead of the recording. -- Mick Davies http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/ "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than our eyes..." Luigi Russolo, 1913 "rich rookie" wrote in message ... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record their most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they had made. The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the meters pegged. I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music. Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final product. Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine. Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy inserts or music. Ya gotta wonder. Richard |
#12
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Overcompression in music today :(((
I just finished a recording of electronic music for CD. Its more or less a
vanity project, my first CD as opposed to cassette and I decided to "master" it myself , although I have no illusions about my abilities as such (I simply wanted to stay DIY and learn more). It is not dance music, it is more akin to "classic" or "so called "academic" electronic music so, theoretically, I didn't feel the need to over compress. Once I started "mastering", however, I realized how accustomed to hearing over compressed music I had become. Since I had put a couple of months between composing and recording and this final step I constantly had to check myself to maintain an ear for dynamic content. I had to remind myself that I WANTED quiet moments. For better or worse, I decided to only do a little bit of EQ on one piece to tame some frequency content that wasn't working (the four pieces are based upon frequency and timbre as opposed to harmony melody and rhythm so I wasn't concerned about using as much EQ as needed which still ended up being very little), a very small bit of sonic maximizing, and 2.5:1-3:1 multi-band compression (very little by today's standards from what I understand). I then matched levels, called it a day, and started burning. I have read several articles, interviews and posts on the topic of over compressing the dynamic range of current music and tried to be diligent about avoiding such convention. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be but the end result seems to be a CD that has a wide dynamic range that fits the music. I am hoping that the growing awareness of over compression and dissatisfaction with record industry's output in general will encourage independent artists to break with current conventions and begin demanding that the dynamic integrity of their work be maintained throughout the recording and manufacturing process. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic but it would be nice to start hearing the "music" instead of the recording. -- Mick Davies http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/ "Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than our eyes..." Luigi Russolo, 1913 "rich rookie" wrote in message ... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record their most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they had made. The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the meters pegged. I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music. Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final product. Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine. Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy inserts or music. Ya gotta wonder. Richard |
#14
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Overcompression in music today :(((
All very good points. I have refused to mix or master with over
compression. Absolutely refuse. The interesting thing I have noticed is that as soon as a mix is heard by someone new to the project, they ALWAYS say "this sounds great". I'm not tooting my horn here! I find that the immediate impression of a mix that is not over compressed is much more pleasant to listen to. It sucks the listener in as soon as they hear the first measure of the song. I've been paying attention to this for a while and have yet to have anyone ask me to change. Interesting. The last mix I did, we had to do a little suedo mastering because of the budget. Well the "kids" took the files and threw them into a DAW and inserted 3 or 4 plugins for eq and compression. It sounded awful. So, I asked them to route the origional mix out and used some Neve Comps, and a Massive Passive to enhance the mixes. The reaction by the listeners was pretty interesting. They used words like warmth, dimension, life, big and huge.........and the levels were at least 2-3 db's below 0 with a fair amount of dynamics left. One of the younger workers walked thru and said, "the meters aren't at 0, shouldn't they be at 0? What do you think of the sound? I asked. "Sounds killer" " Wow, I've never seen those on, what do those do?" as he asked about the Massive and the Neves. Pretty damn funny stuff.......I just shook my head.......this IS what the world is coming to. Steve (ChrisCoaster) wrote in message om... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Daniel _____________________ I was a "late follower" consumer of CDs - meaning I jumped on the bandwagon "almost" as fast as the trendsetting consumers. As such I own many CDs that were mainly created from what essentially were cleaned up LP masters. These inclued the two Eagles' Greatest Hits CDs, Steve Miller 1978-78, and VH II. These CDs are noticeably "quieter" than the aforementioned Pink and other CDs of the last 3 years. But when I ran them through my church mixer(after practice night!!), I noticed something about the mixer's meters when I cranked up the 70s reissues: They made that mixer's LED's jump up and down from -infinity up to almost clipping! Pink's Mizundastood, the meters hovered between -3 & +3dB, even when someone crashed a cymbal. Case in point: Due to over compression, today's recordings lack the dynamic vitality of those issued 10, 20, 30years ago. The sound of todays artists is not allowed to pass through, and it sounds bland by comparison. -ChrisCoaster |
#15
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Mike" wrote in message m... Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike, There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages. The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors, limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain manually. When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over technique choose a different thread, mate. -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#16
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Mike" wrote in message m... Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike, There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages. The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors, limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain manually. When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over technique choose a different thread, mate. -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#17
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Overcompression in music today :(((
(Mike) wrote in message om...
"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually. The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?" Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com Is riding the gain turning the gain knob? Or do some people use that phrase instead of 'riding the faders'? |
#18
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Overcompression in music today :(((
(Mike) wrote in message om...
"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05... "Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no... Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually. The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?" Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com Is riding the gain turning the gain knob? Or do some people use that phrase instead of 'riding the faders'? |
#19
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"rich rookie" wrote in message ... I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music. (not a recording pro, just a listener) Maybe this is the real point here. Where do most people listen to music? In their cars. With lots of background noise. You can NOT hear subtlety there.We were listening to a Vivaldi "Four Seasons" disc in the truck one day, and I kept having to turn it up and down. I had to explain to my daughter that this stuff was written to be performed in a quiet hall, where the only noise is the occasional cough. Vehicles at 70 mph are not the same. So pop music is engineered both for those situations and because the purchasers (mostly kids) don't know about music subtleties anyway. I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? |
#20
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"rich rookie" wrote in message ... I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music. (not a recording pro, just a listener) Maybe this is the real point here. Where do most people listen to music? In their cars. With lots of background noise. You can NOT hear subtlety there.We were listening to a Vivaldi "Four Seasons" disc in the truck one day, and I kept having to turn it up and down. I had to explain to my daughter that this stuff was written to be performed in a quiet hall, where the only noise is the occasional cough. Vehicles at 70 mph are not the same. So pop music is engineered both for those situations and because the purchasers (mostly kids) don't know about music subtleties anyway. I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? |
#21
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Overcompression in music today :(((
A Question:
It sound to me like some boomboxes have compression build into them to make them sound louder and not massively distort.. Anyone know if this is true? Of course, even a speaker can compress.. A Rant: I think that we take music with us everywhere now and it's forced to conform to a lot more environments that it used to. I used to do my first listening of an album in a quiet room, but nowaday's it's usually in the car. These day's it's usually not worth listening in a quiet room because there's nothing left to hear besides what's "in your face". Might as well listen with the TV on, or the radio, or while surfing the internet.. blabla****moanwhineblabla.. A Suggestion: I wish consumer equipment manufacturers would get on the stick and put user controlable compression into the equipment that could benifit from it (car stereo's, walkmen, boomboxes, etc..). Let the source media contain the entire dynamic range... SRyan |
#22
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Overcompression in music today :(((
A Question:
It sound to me like some boomboxes have compression build into them to make them sound louder and not massively distort.. Anyone know if this is true? Of course, even a speaker can compress.. A Rant: I think that we take music with us everywhere now and it's forced to conform to a lot more environments that it used to. I used to do my first listening of an album in a quiet room, but nowaday's it's usually in the car. These day's it's usually not worth listening in a quiet room because there's nothing left to hear besides what's "in your face". Might as well listen with the TV on, or the radio, or while surfing the internet.. blabla****moanwhineblabla.. A Suggestion: I wish consumer equipment manufacturers would get on the stick and put user controlable compression into the equipment that could benifit from it (car stereo's, walkmen, boomboxes, etc..). Let the source media contain the entire dynamic range... SRyan |
#23
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , Jeff Deff
wrote: What if people started an email campaign. Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners. When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told "nobody is complaining but a few engineers." -- Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051 Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! |
#24
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , Jeff Deff
wrote: What if people started an email campaign. Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners. When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told "nobody is complaining but a few engineers." -- Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051 Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! |
#25
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , MikeK wrote:
I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter. Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#26
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , MikeK wrote:
I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter. Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#27
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Overcompression in music today :(((
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Man, this tiring issue again. Here's where all the house painters pretend to be Picasso. One question - Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? Professional engineers are not hired to create a masterpiece, they're hired to make music that can sell. Very few of the stereos out there are of reasonable audiophile quality to reap the benefits of a recording that makes good use of the available dynamic range, and very few listening environments are suitable for the job either. So when you next assume the position of actual music consumers, in your car, walking the street wearing a headphones, sitting at home chatting with friends, think about the subtle details of a dynamic recording that are completely inaudible over the background, and what proportion of the population actually turns off their TV and sits alone to absorb an album to its fullest. Now think of how many of us would actually be working in audio if only those people bought music. Obviously there are recordings that go too far, and I'm not saying "the more compression the better", but the balance point between nice dynamics and marketability leans more towards overcompression than we'd like. Big f-ing deal. Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? I thought so. And now that players with buffered 192kHz DAC's are available for $60, and recordable media costs less than a quarter in quantity, I have no trouble saying "the hell with analog". Vinyl offered better tone, but CD's offer marketability and cost-effectiveness far beyond what LP's ever could. Again, do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid. |
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Overcompression in music today :(((
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse. Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ???? Man, this tiring issue again. Here's where all the house painters pretend to be Picasso. One question - Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? Professional engineers are not hired to create a masterpiece, they're hired to make music that can sell. Very few of the stereos out there are of reasonable audiophile quality to reap the benefits of a recording that makes good use of the available dynamic range, and very few listening environments are suitable for the job either. So when you next assume the position of actual music consumers, in your car, walking the street wearing a headphones, sitting at home chatting with friends, think about the subtle details of a dynamic recording that are completely inaudible over the background, and what proportion of the population actually turns off their TV and sits alone to absorb an album to its fullest. Now think of how many of us would actually be working in audio if only those people bought music. Obviously there are recordings that go too far, and I'm not saying "the more compression the better", but the balance point between nice dynamics and marketability leans more towards overcompression than we'd like. Big f-ing deal. Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? I thought so. And now that players with buffered 192kHz DAC's are available for $60, and recordable media costs less than a quarter in quantity, I have no trouble saying "the hell with analog". Vinyl offered better tone, but CD's offer marketability and cost-effectiveness far beyond what LP's ever could. Again, do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid. |
#29
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , Bob Olhsson
wrote: In article , Jeff Deff wrote: What if people started an email campaign. Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners. When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told "nobody is complaining but a few engineers." But they won't accept the returns because the CD plays. They'll say you can't return a CD just because you decided you didn't like the music, and the message will never move uphill from the summer job clerk to management and eventual record company people who give a damn. Maybe a nasty letter campaign to the labels from the customers? At least then they have a big physical bag of complaints and not just what they may consider spam. One might say the message would get through if it affected sales, but that hasn't seemed to work. They blame all their problems on something else. It couldn't be _their_ fault! The last Rush album I think was the first ever not to go gold or platinum and it sounded like crap. Musically it was OK, but the sound was complained about here, in some articles, and on all the fan groups from what I understand. Word spread, sales stalled. I wonder if anybody up the food chain got the message or if they just blamed it on MP3 trading? -- Jay Frigoletto Mastersuite Los Angeles promastering.com |
#30
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Overcompression in music today :(((
In article , Bob Olhsson
wrote: In article , Jeff Deff wrote: What if people started an email campaign. Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners. When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told "nobody is complaining but a few engineers." But they won't accept the returns because the CD plays. They'll say you can't return a CD just because you decided you didn't like the music, and the message will never move uphill from the summer job clerk to management and eventual record company people who give a damn. Maybe a nasty letter campaign to the labels from the customers? At least then they have a big physical bag of complaints and not just what they may consider spam. One might say the message would get through if it affected sales, but that hasn't seemed to work. They blame all their problems on something else. It couldn't be _their_ fault! The last Rush album I think was the first ever not to go gold or platinum and it sounded like crap. Musically it was OK, but the sound was complained about here, in some articles, and on all the fan groups from what I understand. Word spread, sales stalled. I wonder if anybody up the food chain got the message or if they just blamed it on MP3 trading? -- Jay Frigoletto Mastersuite Los Angeles promastering.com |
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Overcompression in music today :(((
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#32
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Overcompression in music today :(((
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#33
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Chris!" wrote in message news:LKTjb.91487$k74.7111@lakeread05...
"Mike" wrote in message m... Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike, There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages. The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors, limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain manually. When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over technique choose a different thread, mate. I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations which riding a gain fader wouldn't control. If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems like what would work. A combination of gain riding and compressor. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
#34
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Chris!" wrote in message news:LKTjb.91487$k74.7111@lakeread05...
"Mike" wrote in message m... Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options. Mike, There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages. The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors, limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain manually. When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over technique choose a different thread, mate. I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations which riding a gain fader wouldn't control. If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems like what would work. A combination of gain riding and compressor. Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com |
#35
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
In article , MikeK wrote: I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter. Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car. One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time. I guess it makes too much sense. |
#36
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
In article , MikeK wrote: I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then? This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter. Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car. One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time. I guess it makes too much sense. |
#37
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Mike" wrote in message om... I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations which riding a gain fader wouldn't control. This might come under the heading of Microphone Technique. A good voice over talent knows how to work a microphone: when to move in, when to move away, when to move off-axis and how to slide back. Working in concert with a good engineer who is following the copy and can anticipate volume changes, the recording sounds a lot better than one that was recorded using a compressor to do all of the work. A limiter in the path is good for unexpected and momentary hot signals, but not to do the work of a skilled engineer. If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems like what would work. A combination of gain riding and compressor. Correct, but you want to do most of the processing AFTER recording the talent. The voice has to work with the music and sound effects of a productio--which stomping the crap out of it through a compressor may not allow you to to control well. The talent can add a little projection when they know where a loud sound effect goes in a production, and where to get softer when the effects get more quiet. A good voice over is a team effort of human beings with a little help from outboard equipment and plug-ins. Now back to the subject of the thread: Overcompression in music today. -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#38
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Mike" wrote in message om... I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations which riding a gain fader wouldn't control. This might come under the heading of Microphone Technique. A good voice over talent knows how to work a microphone: when to move in, when to move away, when to move off-axis and how to slide back. Working in concert with a good engineer who is following the copy and can anticipate volume changes, the recording sounds a lot better than one that was recorded using a compressor to do all of the work. A limiter in the path is good for unexpected and momentary hot signals, but not to do the work of a skilled engineer. If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems like what would work. A combination of gain riding and compressor. Correct, but you want to do most of the processing AFTER recording the talent. The voice has to work with the music and sound effects of a productio--which stomping the crap out of it through a compressor may not allow you to to control well. The talent can add a little projection when they know where a loud sound effect goes in a production, and where to get softer when the effects get more quiet. A good voice over is a team effort of human beings with a little help from outboard equipment and plug-ins. Now back to the subject of the thread: Overcompression in music today. -- Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs* Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com Phone: 757-621-1348 *Your opinion may vary |
#39
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Arny Krueger" wrote:
|One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time. Amen! Phil |
#40
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Overcompression in music today :(((
"Arny Krueger" wrote:
|One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time. Amen! Phil |
Reply |
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