[yrret]

Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp really
does mic unusually well?

[Don Pearce[_2_]]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 19:33:24 -0600, "yrret" wrote:

Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp really
does mic unusually well?

I think this is probably a claim with some merit, although I have no
idea how you would go about proving it. I don't remember ever seeing a
studio that didn't have one (particularly a top boost one) and it
really is a workhorse - you know what you are going to get from it,
and it won't take long to have it singing the right sort of sounds for
a lot of music types.

d

[genericaudioperson]

It's been around a long time. And the model number has not changed.
So that claim can have merit. Certainly Marshalls and Fenders have
the most cumulative micing totals of any serious brand. But they
change their designs and model numbers over time.

But to use that as a marketing slogan strikes me as something like the
Dianetics novel. My understanding (which could be innacurate) is that
the L.Ron Hubbard people/company (?) would ship zillions of these
books to some sort of distributor or wholesaler, and then buy them
back, and repeat this process. So they had claims of "millions of
books sold".

I'm not suggesting that the Vox marketing aspect you are indicating is
nefarious like what I'm talking about with the Dianetics book. But it
has some sort of ring to it that sounds a bit... well, that's how and
why marketing people get paid. Mareting professionals look to exploit
aspects of their product that can cast it in a favorable light and
make it stand out from the crowd. Sometimes they picked the most
unusual or obscure fact and amplify the discussion of that detail to
crazy levels of importance ("more cup holders than any SUV in it's
class").

So the fact that it's been miked a lot (due to non-changing of model
numbers, etc.) doesn't mean it mikes "unusually well." Where did you
see this quote, anyway? I'd like to see the full context.

That being said, a "real" Vox AC-30 has earned it's reputation. And
who doesn't like all of those early 60's Beatles recordings?

[genericaudioperson]

It's been around a long time. And the model number has not changed.
So that claim can have merit. Certainly Marshalls and Fenders have
the most cumulative micing totals of any serious brand. But they
change their designs and model numbers over time, so no one Marshall
or Fender is the "most miced amp of all time".

Marketing professionals look to exploit aspects of their product that
can cast it in a favorable light and
make it stand out from the crowd. Sometimes they pick the most
unusual or obscure fact and amplify the discussion of that detail to
crazy levels of importance ("more cup holders than any SUV in it's
class").

So the fact that it's been miked a lot (due to non-changing of model
numbers, etc.) doesn't mean it mikes "unusually well." Where did you
see this quote, anyway? I'd like to see the full context.

That being said, a "real" Vox AC-30 has earned it's reputation. And
who doesn't like all of those early 60's Beatles recordings?

[yrret]

Well, you called me out on my sources and I admit I can't find my own quote
anywhere.
The official vox site is more modest
"The AC30 is one of the most recorded guitar amplifiers in rock history"
I heard versions of this line off of YouTube videos and while trying it out
at a store.

While at the store I found for most sounds it sounded as good as I imagine
an amp could sound. I didn't buy it (yet) mainly b/c I feel I should have
something with a modern growl (I guess I'm looking to discover I'm wrong or
a certain pedal through the f/x can add it.)

"genericaudioperson" wrote in message
...
It's been around a long time. And the model number has not changed.
So that claim can have merit. Certainly Marshalls and Fenders have
the most cumulative micing totals of any serious brand. But they
change their designs and model numbers over time.

But to use that as a marketing slogan strikes me as something like the
Dianetics novel. My understanding (which could be innacurate) is that
the L.Ron Hubbard people/company (?) would ship zillions of these
books to some sort of distributor or wholesaler, and then buy them
back, and repeat this process. So they had claims of "millions of
books sold".

I'm not suggesting that the Vox marketing aspect you are indicating is
nefarious like what I'm talking about with the Dianetics book. But it
has some sort of ring to it that sounds a bit... well, that's how and
why marketing people get paid. Mareting professionals look to exploit
aspects of their product that can cast it in a favorable light and
make it stand out from the crowd. Sometimes they picked the most
unusual or obscure fact and amplify the discussion of that detail to
crazy levels of importance ("more cup holders than any SUV in it's
class").

So the fact that it's been miked a lot (due to non-changing of model
numbers, etc.) doesn't mean it mikes "unusually well." Where did you
see this quote, anyway? I'd like to see the full context.

That being said, a "real" Vox AC-30 has earned it's reputation. And
who doesn't like all of those early 60's Beatles recordings?

[[email protected]]

On Dec 6, 3:29*pm, "yrret" wrote:
Well, you called me out on my sources and I admit I can't find my own quote
anywhere.
The official vox site is more modest
"The AC30 is one of the most recorded guitar amplifiers in rock history"
I heard versions of this line off of YouTube videos and while trying it out
at a store.

While at the store I found for most sounds it sounded as good as I imagine
an amp could sound. *I didn't buy it (yet) mainly b/c I feel I should have
something with a modern growl (I guess I'm looking to discover I'm wrong or
a certain pedal through the f/x can add it.)

"genericaudioperson" wrote in message

...

It's been around a long time. *And the model number has not changed.
So that claim can have merit. *Certainly Marshalls and Fenders have
the most cumulative micing totals of any serious brand. *But they
change their designs and model numbers over time.

But to use that as a marketing slogan strikes me as something like the
Dianetics novel. *My understanding (which could be innacurate) is that
the L.Ron Hubbard people/company (?) would ship zillions of these
books to some sort of distributor or wholesaler, and then buy them
back, and repeat this process. *So they had claims of "millions of
books sold".

I'm not suggesting that the Vox marketing aspect you are indicating is
nefarious like what I'm talking about with the Dianetics book. *But it
has some sort of ring to it that sounds a bit... well, that's how and
why marketing people get paid. Mareting professionals look to exploit
aspects of their product that can cast it in a favorable light and
make it stand out from the crowd. *Sometimes they picked the most
unusual or obscure fact and amplify the discussion of that detail to
crazy levels of importance ("more cup holders than any SUV in it's
class").

So the fact that it's been miked a lot (due to non-changing of model
numbers, etc.) doesn't mean it mikes "unusually well." *Where did you
see this quote, anyway? *I'd like to see the full context.

That being said, a "real" Vox AC-30 has earned it's reputation. *And
who doesn't like all of those early 60's Beatles recordings?

I remember hearing the Vox Ac30 amp is a Class A amp design. The
bottom line was this was a good design. I seem to remember reading
class a amps having a full frequency response. I would buy on for my
studio if they were not $1500.
Glenn.

[Romeo Rondeau[_5_]]

wrote:
On Dec 6, 3:29 pm, "yrret" wrote:
Well, you called me out on my sources and I admit I can't find my own quote
anywhere.
The official vox site is more modest
"The AC30 is one of the most recorded guitar amplifiers in rock history"
I heard versions of this line off of YouTube videos and while trying it out
at a store.

While at the store I found for most sounds it sounded as good as I imagine
an amp could sound. I didn't buy it (yet) mainly b/c I feel I should have
something with a modern growl (I guess I'm looking to discover I'm wrong or
a certain pedal through the f/x can add it.)

"genericaudioperson" wrote in message

...

It's been around a long time. And the model number has not changed.
So that claim can have merit. Certainly Marshalls and Fenders have
the most cumulative micing totals of any serious brand. But they
change their designs and model numbers over time.
But to use that as a marketing slogan strikes me as something like the
Dianetics novel. My understanding (which could be innacurate) is that
the L.Ron Hubbard people/company (?) would ship zillions of these
books to some sort of distributor or wholesaler, and then buy them
back, and repeat this process. So they had claims of "millions of
books sold".
I'm not suggesting that the Vox marketing aspect you are indicating is
nefarious like what I'm talking about with the Dianetics book. But it
has some sort of ring to it that sounds a bit... well, that's how and
why marketing people get paid. Mareting professionals look to exploit
aspects of their product that can cast it in a favorable light and
make it stand out from the crowd. Sometimes they picked the most
unusual or obscure fact and amplify the discussion of that detail to
crazy levels of importance ("more cup holders than any SUV in it's
class").
So the fact that it's been miked a lot (due to non-changing of model
numbers, etc.) doesn't mean it mikes "unusually well." Where did you
see this quote, anyway? I'd like to see the full context.
That being said, a "real" Vox AC-30 has earned it's reputation. And
who doesn't like all of those early 60's Beatles recordings?

I remember hearing the Vox Ac30 amp is a Class A amp design. The
bottom line was this was a good design. I seem to remember reading
class a amps having a full frequency response. I would buy on for my
studio if they were not $1500.
Glenn.

It's not exactly a class A amplifier design, it's an AB1 with cathode
bias. You can buy a kit for a lot less that will be closer to the
original. The new ones are made in China :-(

Here's a kit:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

[HKC]

It's a great amp and it has been around for 47 years so it's very likely
that it's true but I can't see a way that they can actually prove it.

"yrret" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp really
does mic unusually well?

[Scott Dorsey]

HKC wrote:
It's a great amp and it has been around for 47 years so it's very likely
that it's true but I can't see a way that they can actually prove it.

That's the thing about marketing. You can say anything you want, and you
don't have to prove it as long as the competition can't _disprove it_.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[genericaudioperson]

If I remember correctly, Vox did a similar thing that Fender did:
Fender built really good all-tube amps in the 60's. Then they got
cheezy in the 70's and 80's with less tubes and more solid state.
Then somewhere in the 90's they got back to tube designs, but not sure
if they are exact versions of the 60's amps. Prices went back to
expensive.

Same thing (if I remember). Vox AC-30 top boost from the 1960's is an
all tube design with a very nice sound. Then they cheezed the brand
by coming out with solid state models that were lame. I believe the
company or naming rights may have changed hands. Now perhaps the
product mix in the stores is a bit confused, and you have to check if
it's all tube and point to point wiring, or if it's some modern
compromise version that is not really the full deal that the original
ones were.

One thing I'm nearly certain of: if you look at the back and you don't
see any vents near the top electronics part, it's all solid state.
Tubes need heat escape, so there would be vents. You could also plug
a guitar in and see that it sounds "functional" but not "inspiring".
I've never found a solid state guitar amp that was inspiring to me.
Guitar amps were meant to be tubes.

Don't play an amp for 5 minutes and make a decision. Hang with it for
20 minutes. You might start to get bored or repelled by the thing.
If you can't walk away from it, you may have found your amp. Also,
plug a Rickenbacker guitar into it if possible. It's no surprise that
Vox/Rickenbacker is such a known combination. It's an oustanding
match for songwriter sounds (but not for Joe Satriani solos).

[philicorda[_6_]]

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 05:39:32 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 19:33:24 -0600, "yrret" wrote:

Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp
really does mic unusually well?

I think this is probably a claim with some merit, although I have no
idea how you would go about proving it. I don't remember ever seeing a
studio that didn't have one (particularly a top boost one) and it really
is a workhorse - you know what you are going to get from it, and it
won't take long to have it singing the right sort of sounds for a lot of
music types.

It also has the advantage of having a single tone control and no master
volume. If you just plug a guitar straight in, it's really hard to find a
setting that sounds bad. I always get a twinge of fear if a guitarist
brings in an amp with a graphic eq or digital modelling section on it.

I had the luxury of picking between an AC30, an Orange, a Marshall and a
Traynor today. The AC30 sounded right much more often than the Marshall
or Traynor.

Perhaps because the AC30 has less power my ears don't get fooled by
volume levels as much. So playback at a lower volume sounds similar to
the live amp.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:48:43 -0800, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

I remember hearing the Vox Ac30 amp is a Class A amp design.

It's not exactly a class A amplifier design, it's an AB1 with cathode
bias. You can buy a kit for a lot less that will be closer to the
original. The new ones are made in China :-(

I don't know anything about the current versions, but the
original ones were unique IME in being a "super-class-A" design,
with the output stages idled even hotter than needed for
class-A into a resistive load.


Here's a kit:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

This looks like as good a copy of the original as they could
make. Get some good output tubes; they'll idle at 50mA each,
quite toasty.

Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[RD Jones]

On Dec 5, 7:33*pm, "yrret" wrote:
Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp really
does mic unusually well?

I always thought this distinction went to the Fender Deluxe Reverb.

It may very well be more of a regional thing. I'd certainly expect
that on the west coast the DR would dominate. And, although I
see the AC30 in various studios around Nashville, the Fender
seems to be more common.

rd

[Scott Dorsey]

RD Jones wrote:
On Dec 5, 7:33=A0pm, "yrret" wrote:
Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp reall=
y
does mic unusually well?

I always thought this distinction went to the Fender Deluxe Reverb.

It may very well be more of a regional thing. I'd certainly expect
that on the west coast the DR would dominate. And, although I
see the AC30 in various studios around Nashville, the Fender
seems to be more common.

And I guess I think of the Champ when I think of the most typical studio
amp...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[RD Jones]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:48:43 -0800, Romeo Rondeau

wrote:
I remember hearing the Vox Ac30 amp is a Class A amp design.
It's not exactly a class A amplifier design, it's an AB1 with cathode
bias. You can buy a kit for a lot less that will be closer to the
original. The new ones are made in China :-(

I don't know anything about the current versions, but the
original ones were unique IME in being a "super-class-A" design,
with the output stages idled even hotter than needed for
class-A into a resistive load.

Here's a kit:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

On Dec 7, 5:01 pm, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
This looks like as good a copy of the original as they could
make. Get some good output tubes; they'll idle at 50mA each,
quite toasty.

Running class A with a push-pull design is pointless, wasteful
and inefficient. Even AB with self-bias will behave as class A
at all but the very highest levels and run quite hot.

rd

[RD Jones]

On Dec 7, 7:13*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

And I guess I think of the Champ when I think of the most typical studio
amp...

When I think of "small" studio (or practice) amp the Princeton
comes to mind. Probably the reason the Vox might actually
come out ahead in this type of survey would be due to Fender's
much larger number of very appropriate models.

Vox just had the AC15 and AC30, no?

rd

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:14:47 -0800 (PST), RD Jones
wrote:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

This looks like as good a copy of the original as they could
make. Get some good output tubes; they'll idle at 50mA each,
quite toasty.

Running class A with a push-pull design is pointless, wasteful
and inefficient. Even AB with self-bias will behave as class A
at all but the very highest levels and run quite hot.

The output tubes are idled at above rated plate dissipation,
which seems crazy in our post-cheap-vacuum-tubes era. But
who knows - maybe their longetivity (soundwise only!, natch)
is related somehow. I'm not qualified to say much.

One thing I'd definitely do if building or rebuilding one
of these is to divide the common cathode resistor into
four separate resistors, each with her own shunt capacitor.
The standard circuit tries to cook the hottest tube fastest.

Might even come up from the resulting 200 Ohm number; maybe about
250-300 Ohms. As you say, it's likely pretty pointless. Or, add a
switchable common 15-25 Ohm resistor in the ground leg of all four, to
allow comparison, and for practice use.


Much thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck

[david correia]

In article
,
RD Jones wrote:

On Dec 5, 7:33*pm, "yrret" wrote:
Just curious if this is just a sales line or if this particular amp really
does mic unusually well?

I always thought this distinction went to the Fender Deluxe Reverb.

It may very well be more of a regional thing. I'd certainly expect
that on the west coast the DR would dominate. And, although I
see the AC30 in various studios around Nashville, the Fender
seems to be more common.

rd



Over my decades in the biz I've mic'd more Fender Deluxe Reverbs than
any other amp. Not even close.




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Nil]

On 07 Dec 2008, Romeo Rondeau wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

It's not exactly a class A amplifier design, it's an AB1 with
cathode bias. You can buy a kit for a lot less that will be closer
to the original. The new ones are made in China :-(

Here's a kit:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

This link doesn't work for me. Is it correct, or is the site just down?

[Nil]

On 09 Dec 2008, Nil wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6V30

This link doesn't work for me. Is it correct, or is the site just
down?

Temporary glitch, I guess - it's working now.

[Frank D. Greco]

"yrret" sez:

While at the store I found for most sounds it sounded as good as I imagine
an amp could sound. I didn't buy it (yet) mainly b/c I feel I should have
something with a modern growl (I guess I'm looking to discover I'm wrong or
a certain pedal through the f/x can add it.)

This is probably best discussed in one of the guitar/amp newsgroups, but I can't
resist...

The Vox AC-30 is a great classic amp from clean (Beatles) to total saturation
(Brian May - Queen). Indeed its hard to make it sound bad. It can growl with
the best of them.

You might want to try Brown Note (BrownNote.net) amps if you want a bit more of
a modern accent.

F