[Richard Crowley]

"Johann Spischak" wrote ...
"genericaudioperson" schrieb ...
Thanks for the insights, Mr. Dorsey and everyone else.

That's an interseting concept that wider dispersion means less horn
resonance. I also never knew there is a unidirectional planar.

I'm not going to do the planars. While the posted reasons against
using them vary, the consistent theme is that everybody is
recommending against them. I trust the collective wisdom of this
group.

I remember seeing the Stage Accompany speakers at AES a number of
years ago. I rembember them sounding a lot better than the typical PA
cabinet. I had forgotten what the brand was. Thanks for the reminder!

I am sorry to post so late into this thread, but I think I can
give some arguments to it.

First, our own experiences: One of our happy customer, a
componist, whom music we have remastered, gave several
university lectures about the sound of his CD in Zürich, Hong
Kong University, Rotary Club of Singapore, National University
of Singapore, Conservatory Recital Studio of the International
Conservatory of Music and so on.

Everywhere was used Magnepan's 20,1 or 3,6 as loudspeaker.
I was agreed to make demonstrations of my mastering technology
only if open loudpeakers will used. The audience was everywhere
fascinated. Check out this link,

"SR" in the subject line = Sound Reinforcement
"componist" = composer in English?
What kind of live sound does a componist/composer make
that requires *reinforcement* (beyond his speaking voice)?

[Johann Spischak]

"Richard Crowley" schrieb im Newsbeitrag . ..
"Johann Spischak" wrote ...
"genericaudioperson" schrieb ...
Thanks for the insights, Mr. Dorsey and everyone else.

That's an interseting concept that wider dispersion means less horn
resonance. I also never knew there is a unidirectional planar.

I'm not going to do the planars. While the posted reasons against
using them vary, the consistent theme is that everybody is
recommending against them. I trust the collective wisdom of this
group.

I remember seeing the Stage Accompany speakers at AES a number of
years ago. I rembember them sounding a lot better than the typical PA
cabinet. I had forgotten what the brand was. Thanks for the reminder!

I am sorry to post so late into this thread, but I think I can
give some arguments to it.

First, our own experiences: One of our happy customer, a
componist, whom music we have remastered, gave several
university lectures about the sound of his CD in Zürich, Hong
Kong University, Rotary Club of Singapore, National University
of Singapore, Conservatory Recital Studio of the International
Conservatory of Music and so on.

Everywhere was used Magnepan's 20,1 or 3,6 as loudspeaker.
I was agreed to make demonstrations of my mastering technology
only if open loudpeakers will used. The audience was everywhere
fascinated. Check out this link,

"SR" in the subject line = Sound Reinforcement
"componist" = composer in English?
What kind of live sound does a componist/composer make
that requires *reinforcement* (beyond his speaking voice)?


Yes, composer. He plays his music from CDs in original and remastered versions. (as you see in the text above)

[Richard Crowley]

"Johann Spischak" wrote...
"Richard Crowley" schrieb ...
What kind of live sound does a componist/composer make
that requires *reinforcement* (beyond his speaking voice)?

Yes, composer. He plays his music from CDs in original and
remastered versions. (as you see in the text above)

Which is an interesting story. But I don't see how it has anything
to do with the problems of using planar speakers in live music
reinforcement situation?

[Johann Spischak]

"Charlie Olsen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:20:46 -0800, Richard Crowley wrote:

"Johann Spischak" wrote...
"Richard Crowley" schrieb ...
What kind of live sound does a componist/composer make
that requires *reinforcement* (beyond his speaking voice)?

Yes, composer. He plays his music from CDs in original and
remastered versions. (as you see in the text above)

Which is an interesting story. But I don't see how it has anything
to do with the problems of using planar speakers in live music
reinforcement situation?

That's the point I am making.
IOW one drop of the mic, one feedback loop etc.
SR systems are designed to CREATE music.
IOW live.
Home systems are designed to RE-CREATE music.
IOW, already recorded and processed music.

Yes there is a grey area of overlap, ie:I know some churches that use
Mackie HR824's as PA speakers for the pastor and praise group etc.
They work well.
But in general, I'm not going to take my KEF 105's to my next gig


Even that is, why I mentioned MAD loudspeakers. They are constructed exactly for this purpose _and_ are planars at the same time. Most interesting is for me, that their newly developed models prooving even, that the always used arguments against planars are not true and this way you can have new products which would never be possible to build with boxed-cone speakers.

In a university auditorium by recreating sound with live commentary is the situation even more sensitive. If the undersandability of the person's live voice is good, then will be the conserve music tend to sound like a telephone. Well, that is the point, where the quality of the conserve decides the match. Perhaps even wiith your KEF105, in despite of it is box :-)

And that time (one year ago) was our glass CD with direct-in-glass-mastering not there yet.:-)

Cheers, Johann

[Arny Krueger]

"Johann Spischak" wrote in message


Even that is, why I mentioned MAD loudspeakers. They are
constructed exactly for this purpose _and_ are planars at
the same time.

The Mad speakers appear to be a whole 'nuther thing, and not directly
comparable to Magnepans.

http://www.getmad.com/spkrs_a8.html

"Suppressed back wave converts dipole radiation pattern to cardioid"

"Recommended crossover: for high SPL low frequency output 100 to 150Hz, 24dB
L/R"

Summary:

The MAD SR systems aren't dipoles even though they are composed of dipole
driver elements (seems like a good idea)

The MAD SR systems would need subwoofers to have comparable power response
to common SR speakers.

....and those subwoofers would likely be enclosed in boxes.

You have to remember that many SR speakers make heavy use large waveguide
drivers that really don't care that much whether they are mounted in boxes,
since their back waves are suppressed in the drivers.

[Johann Spischak]

"Arny Krueger" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
"Johann Spischak" wrote in message


Even that is, why I mentioned MAD loudspeakers. They are
constructed exactly for this purpose _and_ are planars at
the same time.

The Mad speakers appear to be a whole 'nuther thing, and not directly
comparable to Magnepans.

http://www.getmad.com/spkrs_a8.html

"Suppressed back wave converts dipole radiation pattern to cardioid"

"Recommended crossover: for high SPL low frequency output 100 to 150Hz, 24dB
L/R"

Summary:

The MAD SR systems aren't dipoles even though they are composed of dipole
driver elements (seems like a good idea)

The MAD SR systems would need subwoofers to have comparable power response
to common SR speakers.

...and those subwoofers would likely be enclosed in boxes.

You have to remember that many SR speakers make heavy use large waveguide
drivers that really don't care that much whether they are mounted in boxes,
since their back waves are suppressed in the drivers.



Sorry Arny, you have to look around on their website again. The back waves are not suppressed, there is a foam layer to avoid physical dangers. The wide range panels _are_ dipoles and as bigger that panel will be as less bass will be missed. Look at the New York concert page, there was no additional bass panels used. On the european events is the same. Further, by the loudspeaker details you will find their dipole bass panel! :-) That makes fun!

However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans have made a wonderful job.

Regads, Johann

[Arny Krueger]

"Johann Spischak" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
"Johann Spischak" wrote in
message

Even that is, why I mentioned MAD loudspeakers. They are
constructed exactly for this purpose _and_ are planars
at the same time.

The Mad speakers appear to be a whole 'nuther thing, and
not directly comparable to Magnepans.

http://www.getmad.com/spkrs_a8.html

"Suppressed back wave converts dipole radiation pattern
to cardioid"

"Recommended crossover: for high SPL low frequency
output 100 to 150Hz, 24dB L/R"

Summary:

The MAD SR systems aren't dipoles even though they are
composed of dipole driver elements (seems like a good
idea)

The MAD SR systems would need subwoofers to have
comparable power response to common SR speakers.

...and those subwoofers would likely be enclosed in
boxes.

as indeed they are for http://www.getmad.com/woofer_vfl18.html

You have to remember that many SR speakers make heavy
use large waveguide drivers that really don't care that
much whether they are mounted in boxes, since their back
waves are suppressed in the drivers.

Sorry Arny, you have to look around on their website
again.

Oh, the direct quote I took from their website is in error?

No, I think you ought to check my links before you start throwing stones.
:-(

The same text shows up on several other pages in their speakers for SR.

The back waves are not suppressed, there is a foam
layer to avoid physical dangers. The wide range panels
_are_ dipoles and as bigger that panel will be as less
bass will be missed. Look at the New York concert page,
there was no additional bass panels used. On the european
events is the same. Further, by the loudspeaker details
you will find their dipole bass panel! :-) That makes
fun!

http://www.getmad.com/woofer_vfl18.html

Rather obviously a fairly classic bass bin with what appears to be a
conventional driver with a 4" voice coil.

However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans
have made a wonderful job.

It ain't classic SR, nothing like it.

Playing a recording of a piano is not reinforcement, it is reproduction.
Providing support for a single person lecturing in a good concent hall is a
trivial application.

[Richard Crowley]

"Johann Spischak" wrote ...
However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans have made a
wonderful job.

But not "live SR" (sound RE-enforcement) in any sense of the term.

[Johann Spischak]

http://www.getmad.com/woofer_vfl18.html

Rather obviously a fairly classic bass bin with what appears to be a
conventional driver with a 4" voice coil.

This is not their dipole version, that looks a bit thinner and wider and the text is totally different too. They working on the website (again), as it looks.


However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans
have made a wonderful job.

It ain't classic SR, nothing like it.

Classic is it not, but should be:-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Johann Spischak" wrote in message


However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans
have made a wonderful job.

It ain't classic SR, nothing like it.

Classic is it not, but should be:-)

You understand that there is a place in hell where people have to do SR with
nothing but speakers that are all bipolar or omni, and microphones that are
all bipolar or omni? ;-)

Seriously, cardioid and hypercardioid mics and speakers really help you
when you are doing SR in general.

[Johann Spischak]

"Arny Krueger" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
"Johann Spischak" wrote in message


However, for our university lectures the big Magnepans
have made a wonderful job.

It ain't classic SR, nothing like it.

Classic is it not, but should be:-)

You understand that there is a place in hell where people have to do SR with
nothing but speakers that are all bipolar or omni, and microphones that are
all bipolar or omni? ;-)

Exactly! By me it is already genetic. On the left ear goes in and the other side out! Even bipolar, no enclosed box.:-)

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:

You understand that there is a place in hell where people have to do SR with
nothing but speakers that are all bipolar or omni, and microphones that are
all bipolar or omni? ;-)

That place is called "200 Hz and below."
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

You understand that there is a place in hell where
people have to do SR with nothing but speakers that are
all bipolar or omni, and microphones that are all
bipolar or omni? ;-)

That place is called "200 Hz and below."

A lot more true than one could hope.

But it would be even worse if it were true across the audio band.

[RDOGuy]

Per Scott, the term "HPF" shall now officially be known as an acronym
for "Hell Pass Filter"

:-)