[PanHandler[_2_]]

I posted this a couple days ago to rec.audio.tech but that group's been
silent since then, so here goes:

I've been given one of these, in excellent 'looking' condition. Assuming it
works okay, is there any practical use for it with today's state of the art
subwoofers? I remember being quite impressed with it back in the 70's.
'preciate your thoughts on it!
TIA

I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I'm impressed with the knowledge
and helpfulness of most replies. Great group!
BTW - I'm not a pro by any definition, but I know good sound when I hear it!

[William Sommerwerck]

I've been given one of these, in excellent 'looking' condition. Assuming
it
works okay, is there any practical use for it with today's state of the
art
subwoofers? I remember being quite impressed with it back in the 70's.
'preciate your thoughts on it!

My experience with the dbx and another company's similar product
(Phase-Coupled Activator) was that, the better the playback system, the less
audible it was in enhancing the bass. I don't know why.

In theory, it would be very useful following the output of the electronic
crossover that feeds the subwoofer. On appropriate recordings, you could
really jack up the bass.

[Scott Dorsey]

PanHandler wrote:
I posted this a couple days ago to rec.audio.tech but that group's been
silent since then, so here goes:

I've been given one of these, in excellent 'looking' condition. Assuming it
works okay, is there any practical use for it with today's state of the art
subwoofers? I remember being quite impressed with it back in the 70's.

It's a fix-up box. It adds fake bass that isn't there on the original
recording. So your question isn't whether it has a practical use with
today's subwoofers, but whether it has a practical use with today's
recordings.

I think it's a lot less useful than it once was, but it can still be very
handy for fixing up tracks that have problems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Depending on what kind of music you do, it can be extremely useful
during mixes. If you have a drum kit with a poorly recorded kick it
can do wonders, even if you're going for as natural a sound as
possible. Awesome to sneak a bit in on bass sometimes, too.

The thought of using it in playback systems gives me the hives,
though.

[William Sommerwerck]

My experience with the dbx and another company's similar product
(Phase-Coupled Activator) was that, the better the playback system,
the less audible it was in enhancing the bass. I don't know why.

Possibly because the worse the playback system, the less likely it is
to be driven into "doubling", ie, severe 2nd-harmonic distortion.

Is that backwards?

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
I posted this a couple days ago to rec.audio.tech but that group's been
silent since then, so here goes:

I've been given one of these, in excellent 'looking' condition. Assuming
it
works okay, is there any practical use for it with today's state of the
art
subwoofers? I remember being quite impressed with it back in the 70's.
'preciate your thoughts on it!
TIA

I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I'm impressed with the
knowledge and helpfulness of most replies. Great group!
BTW - I'm not a pro by any definition, but I know good sound when I hear
it!

I found that it doesn't sound like real bass, but I would imagine that if
you do a lot of post processing, it may add a nice touch.


Thanx for the replies! Based on the 6 I've read so far, I'm encouraged to do
a little experimenting. I have a good amp (not in the pic, it's a Carver
Cube) and good, robust home built speakers to work with.

Here's the room it'll be used in:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2879849236/sizes/l/

And:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162949691/sizes/o/

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...

Here's the room it'll be used in:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2879849236/sizes/l/

And:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162949691/sizes/o/

And here's the bar, opposite the computer system:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/347001455/sizes/o/

Currently working with 726 GB of music files.

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...

Here's the room it'll be used in:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2879849236/sizes/l/

And:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162949691/sizes/o/

And here's the bar, opposite the computer system:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/347001455/sizes/o/

Currently working with 726 GB of music files.
Joe, it looks like the rec room on the Starship Enterprise! But I can't
figure out what the centric purpose of the room is. The work area looks
very business oriented, but I don't see a good set of monitor speakers.
180 degrees you have a bar.

Hey Bob
This room used to be my carport. The entire computer thing started about 6
years ago with a donated AMD K5 133, 16 MB RAM, 1 GB HDD. All I learned from
that was the meaning of slow. I figured the best way to get involved was to
figger out how to build my own. It's evolved into a small custom computer
business, mebbe a box every month or so, and supports my habit. The 3 comps
on the top shelf are my flagships. Each run WXP MCE, dual core P4 3.0's, 2GB
RAM and 2 HDD's each, the smallest being 320 GB and each has a 1TB 'D'
drive. All have 2 monitors and are networked. One wireless KB and mouse for
all. The audio system in the pic is just for the small speakers on top, used
for music editing, using Cool Edit Pro and Audacity. I also do photo
restoration. The link below is to one of the 2 monitors I built 2 years ago.
The rebuilt x-overs are from Infinity RSM's from the late 70's. Basically
the whole setup is a hobby that grew completely out of control :-) but I
learn something every day, and it keeps me out of trouble. Being a party
animal, I HAD to have a bar and dance floor with all the light shows,
strobes, etc. For a party, I run one computer with the search window on one
monitor, with the desktop on a switched-off monitor. Partiers can search the
191,000 songs and have at it! I run the sound system with a remote, all they
have to do is double-click the song they want. There it is - my life story!
BTW, I'm 69 today, going on 30.
Joe Arnold

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162367910/sizes/o/

[William Sommerwerck]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...

My experience with the dbx and another company's similar product
(Phase-Coupled Activator) was that, the better the playback system,
the less audible it was in enhancing the bass. I don't know why.

Possibly because the worse the playback system, the less likely it is
to be driven into "doubling", ie, severe 2nd-harmonic distortion.

Is that backwards?

I don't think so. To paraphrase, in a cheap system, the subharmonic is
is reproduced at double the frequency -- the original.

I see what you mean. But you'd still have an increase in the level of the
original frequency, which should be audible..

[[email protected]]

On Dec 15, 1:43*am, "PanHandler" wrote:

This room used to be my carport. The entire computer thing started about 6
years ago with a donated AMD K5 133, 16 MB RAM, 1 GB HDD. All I learned from
that was the meaning of slow. I figured the best way to get involved was to
figger out how to build my own. It's evolved into a small custom computer
business, mebbe a box every month or so, and supports my habit. The 3 comps
on the top shelf are my flagships. Each run WXP MCE, dual core P4 3.0's, 2GB
RAM and 2 HDD's each, the smallest being 320 GB and each has a 1TB 'D'
drive. All have 2 monitors and are networked. One wireless KB and mouse for
all. The audio system in the pic is just for the small speakers on top, used
for music editing, using Cool Edit Pro and Audacity. I also do photo
restoration. The link below is to one of the 2 monitors I built 2 years ago.
The rebuilt x-overs are from Infinity RSM's from the late 70's. Basically
the whole setup is a hobby that grew completely out of control :-) but I
learn something every day, and it keeps me out of trouble. Being a party
animal, I HAD to have a bar and dance floor with all the light shows,
strobes, etc. For a party, I run one computer with the search window on one
monitor, with the desktop on a switched-off monitor. Partiers can search the
191,000 songs and have at it! I run the sound system with a remote, all they
have to do is double-click the song they want. There it is - my life story!
BTW, I'm 69 today, going on 30.
Joe Arnold


Best reason for technology I've seen in ages! And Happy Birthday!!!

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , "PanHandler" wrote:

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...
I posted this a couple days ago to rec.audio.tech but that group's been
silent since then, so here goes:

I've been given one of these, in excellent 'looking' condition. Assuming
it
works okay, is there any practical use for it with today's state of the
art
subwoofers? I remember being quite impressed with it back in the 70's.
'preciate your thoughts on it!
TIA

I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I'm impressed with the
knowledge and helpfulness of most replies. Great group!
BTW - I'm not a pro by any definition, but I know good sound when I hear
it!

I found that it doesn't sound like real bass, but I would imagine that if
you do a lot of post processing, it may add a nice touch.


Thanx for the replies! Based on the 6 I've read so far, I'm encouraged to do
a little experimenting. I have a good amp (not in the pic, it's a Carver
Cube) and good, robust home built speakers to work with.

Here's the room it'll be used in:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2879849236/sizes/l/

And:
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162949691/sizes/o/


I don't know what it does. I know what I wanted when I built a subharmonic
generator which divides the bass in half and adds that to the mix. You
need speakers that go that low to hear it.

greg

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message
"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote
in message ...

My experience with the dbx and another company's
similar product (Phase-Coupled Activator) was that,
the better the playback system, the less audible it
was in enhancing the bass. I don't know why.

The lower the distortion at low frequencies, the less audible they are.

Possibly because the worse the playback system, the
less likely it is to be driven into "doubling", ie,
severe 2nd-harmonic distortion.

Is that backwards?

It is about right.

Thing is that the ear does a fair amount of subharmonic synthesis on its
own.

I don't think so. To paraphrase, in a cheap system, the
subharmonic is is reproduced at double the frequency --
the original.

Cheap systems aren't restricted to producing only second or even harmonics.

I see what you mean. But you'd still have an increase in
the level of the original frequency, which should be
audible..

The subharmonic synth had knobs to control that.

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

Cool. You have 191K songs stored locally or elsewhere? How did you set
it
up?

Thanx for your interest Bob!

I have four 1 TB HDD's, one each in three computers and one at a friend's
house in an anti-static bag. He copied its content to his own HDD. About
every two months or so he brings it here for updating. One of mine locally
is the 'active' one and the other two are backups, one of those with a
switched power supply cable, so it only spins up to add content. How's that
for redundancy! :-) A few of the 'C' drives have playlists assembled
according to genre, to suit my 'mood of the hour'.
As an aside the links below are to the dual-boot Dell Precision 530 dual
Xeon Linux SuSE/WXP setup I like to play with, and the
USB/modem/LAN/lighting & security controls. Some of the eight external USB
HDD's are auto-sensing and spin up when their associated computer is booted,
so they now have external power switches. Total capacity of all HDD's is
about 8 terabytes.
This whole mess has been a blast to build, but I'm running out of ideas (and
shelves). Any suggestions?
Joe Arnold

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2784363846/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/2750468769/sizes/o/

[PanHandler[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 1:43 am, "PanHandler" wrote:

Best reason for technology I've seen in ages! And Happy Birthday!!!

Thanks! I love to brag about it! (the technology part, that is). When asked
why I undertook such a mess, I answer that I wanted to learn how to
desolder. I'm a lot better at that than anything else. You should see the
cable harnesses and UPS system I put together!
Joe Arnold

[philper]

These subharmonic boxes were and still are used in film mixes,
somewhat supplanted now by plug-ins like Waves RenBass and MaxxBass.

Philip Perkins

[[email protected]]

On Dec 15, 10:31*am, "PanHandler" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 15, 1:43 am, "PanHandler" wrote:

Best reason for technology I've seen in ages! *And Happy Birthday!!!

Thanks! I love to brag about it! (the technology part, that is). When asked
why I undertook such a mess, I answer that I wanted to learn how to
desolder. I'm a lot better at that than anything else. You should see the
cable harnesses and UPS system I put together!
Joe Arnold



I really enjoy much of the very serious discourse that goes on in
rec.audio.pro, from people who take these things very seriously, but I
think I get more actual pleasure from threads like this. It just
balances out the ones where the gravity of the tone and/or ego weighs
it down.

Damn. Joe, I don't mean to make you feel like 69 is that old (it's
not like I'm 25, I'm 53 myself), but if I can be as excited as you are
about projects like this in 15 years I'll feel like a million bucks,
as I'm sure you do! A lesson to all those 50 year old old fogeys out
there.

And posting on R.A.P. on your birthday? Gotta love it! Have a good
one!

r

[Ron Capik]

PanHandler wrote:

...snip...

Hey Bob
This room used to be my carport. The entire computer thing started about 6
years ago with a donated AMD K5 133, 16 MB RAM, 1 GB HDD. All I learned from
that was the meaning of slow.
...snip...

I don't believe that come anywhere close to the meaning of
slow. My first PC (a Heath/Zenith Z-100) ran at 4.5 MHz with
64k of RAM, and two 5 1/2 in floppy drives No hard drives
for PCs back then.) G


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[[email protected]]

On Dec 15, 12:52*pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:

Boon, what I don't understand is, how did you get ahold of 191,000 songs?
You couldn't have played them all or even know them all. Forgive me, I'm
ignorant of the download music world. All I have are a couple of thousand
CDs in racks on the wall

Bob, since 10,000 CDs could equal 120,000 songs, you may not be that
far off : )

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

HDD's are auto-sensing and spin up when their associated computer is
booted, so they now have external power switches.

How do you manage that? I have SATA drives that spin up automatically,
but the wall-warts are always on. I'd like to have the wall-warts switch
as well.

In the ventilated cabinet under the external HDD's are two power strips for
the warts. Extension cords from the strips are switched on the panel for the
individual warts.

Boon, what I don't understand is, how did you get ahold of 191,000 songs?
You couldn't have played them all or even know them all. Forgive me, I'm
ignorant of the download music world. All I have are a couple of thousand
CDs in racks on the wall

YEARS of downloading and ripping CD's! I've never heard most of them except
to ascertain their quality, mostly listening to just snippets.

As far as ideas, have you considered making the thing portable, and
advertising your services for theme-based events? If it works for your
parties, it should work for anybody's.

Been there, done that! See he
http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/160905039/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/162366998/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/194801793/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/joearnold/166440722/sizes/o/

The '1400 Watts' is not quite true - the 120V to 12V converter for the 12V
power supply only supplies 35 amps, not the 70+ amps a car
battery/alternator can provide.
I Deejay for free for the locals' private parties and the town Shrine Hall.
It's a blast, and the chicks dig it! These pics are at various stages of
completion.
Joe Arnold

[PanHandler[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 12:52 pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:

Boon, what I don't understand is, how did you get ahold of 191,000 songs?
You couldn't have played them all or even know them all. Forgive me, I'm
ignorant of the download music world. All I have are a couple of thousand
CDs in racks on the wall

Bob, since 10,000 CDs could equal 120,000 songs, you may not be that
far off : )

And if they're wma's and mp3's, as many as 200 songs per CD!
Joe Arnold

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...
PanHandler wrote:

...snip...

Hey Bob
This room used to be my carport. The entire computer thing started about
6
years ago with a donated AMD K5 133, 16 MB RAM, 1 GB HDD. All I learned
from
that was the meaning of slow.
...snip...

I don't believe that come anywhere close to the meaning of
slow. My first PC (a Heath/Zenith Z-100) ran at 4.5 MHz with
64k of RAM, and two 5 1/2 in floppy drives No hard drives
for PCs back then.) G

Yegads!
Joe Arnold

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...
wrote in message


YEARS of downloading and ripping CD's! I've never heard most of them
except
to ascertain their quality, mostly listening to just snippets.

Oh, you so just get off on being an intellectual property thief. Like one
of the professors I had at Drexel, who stole all my good ideas and made
piles of money from them. Cutting me out in the process.

Seems like he was a little smarter than you, doesn't it!

I Deejay for free for the locals' private parties and the town Shrine
Hall.
It's a blast, and the chicks dig it! These pics are at various stages of
completion.

You're an idiot for not charging. You should be making some good money off
all that stolen music.

Oh well. To each his own. Money ain't everything.

[Chris Hornbeck]

As should be obvious from the crossposting and the nasty tone,
this is a forgery from some sad individual. Please, everyone,
starve a troll.

Thanks from rec.audio.pro, sadly, infected with this pest.
Chris Hornbeck

[Clyde Slick]

On 15 Dec, 21:11, Soundhaspriority wrote:

\

Oh, you so just get off on being an intellectual property thief. *Like one
of the professors I had at Drexel, who stole all my good ideas and made
piles of money from them. *


LOL the theiving dude was a Phd Prof
at Drexel known as Dr Dre!!!!!

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

Boon,
The obnoxious post is a forgery by one Brian L. McCarty, a resident
of Cairns, Australia. I don't post that kind of stuff.

Bob,
In the past I've read some of your posts and should have known that crap was
out of character for you. I apologize for jumping the gun like I did. I
should learn how to do a trace before I stick my foot in my keyboard again.
Joe

[PanHandler[_2_]]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"PanHandler" wrote in message
...

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

Boon,
The obnoxious post is a forgery by one Brian L. McCarty, a resident
of Cairns, Australia. I don't post that kind of stuff.

Bob,
In the past I've read some of your posts and should have known that crap
was out of character for you. I apologize for jumping the gun like I did.
I should learn how to do a trace before I stick my foot in my keyboard
again.
Joe
No problemo

You were looking for ideas? Here's one. If you scanned the artwork, or
would consider doing so, use a digital projector to make an automated
"slide presentation." I see various ways you could make a "name that..."
game out of it, such as playing a clip, which the contestant has to
identify before the artwork appears on the screen.

Since I don't yet have a projector I could use Windows Picture and Fax
Viewer's slide show utility on one of the monitors and sync it (or manually
advance the artwork) with just a few lead-in seconds of the songs. That
would be a blast with 50's R&R. Cool, thanx! I have hundreds of scanned 50's
LP jackets already. I know... chugalug on every miss... yeah that's it :-)
Joe

[Eric B]

The dbx sub harmonic synthesizer was intended to add bass to records
to replace that which the medium couldn't handle. It works by sampling
the 60Hz to 120Hz range and dividing the frequency of that information
in half. The result is mixed in with the original or sent out to a
separate amplifier -to a true subwoofer. As Scott pointed out, modern
recordings on CDs don't really need this. Some people like more bass.
OK use it. It is more useful as a production tool to extend the bass
that microphones don't reproduce, or that people have removed with
high pass filters. If the 20 to 60Hz range has information, it will
introduce an octave below that, which is almost undoubtedly not
useful. It could damage the speakers or amplifier by trying to produce
sub-sonics, that are really, really sub... I remember hearing it once
on Days of Future Past with a close miked male voice and it tracked
fairly well an octave down. You might find that this somewhat non-
musical result will happen if you use it with some modern recordings
which have substantial information in the 60 to 120Hz range.
One Christmas my father gave each of his sons a sub-harmonic
synthesizer. I didn't appreciate it then. It is still a viable effect
for hip hop bass punch. Maybe I'll pull it out and play. Most of my
music is acoustic and really doesn't want this effect.
Best regards,
Eric B

[Eeyore]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

wrote

YEARS of downloading and ripping CD's! I've never heard most of them except
to ascertain their quality, mostly listening to just snippets.

Oh, you so just get off on being an intellectual property thief.

I thought it was you, Brian L. McCarty who has a reputation for fraud ?

Crappy name you have BTW.

[Eeyore]

Clyde Slick wrote:

On 15 Dec, 21:11, Soundhaspriority wrote:

Oh, you so just get off on being an intellectual property thief. Like one
of the professors I had at Drexel, who stole all my good ideas and made
piles of money from them.

LOL the theiving dude was a Phd Prof
at Drexel known as Dr Dre!!!!!

NO it's Brian L. McCarty from Queensland Australia, a failed icecream salesman
forging Bob's identity.

[Eeyore]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

Sadly, I have a history of TWO characters.

No you don't Brian. We're going to get you btw. Half way there already. I'd
consider leaving the country if I were you.

[Ron Capik]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...

...snip...

I don't believe that come anywhere close to the meaning of
slow. My first PC (a Heath/Zenith Z-100) ran at 4.5 MHz with
64k of RAM, and two 5 1/2 in floppy drives No hard drives
for PCs back then.) G

Later...

Ron Capik
--
You had it running at 4.5 mHz? That's overclocking!
I started out at 2 mHz. Getting to 4 was a long struggle.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

I believe you're thinking of a different machine, maybe the H-89?
I had one in my lab. It had 16 - 64 k of RAM, and it did run at 2 MHz.
I seem to remember 160k floppy drives and a CP/M operating system.

The Z-100 was the first machine I bought for myself, thus I didn't
count the H-89.

Others here can probably point out slower stuff the worked with.


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[hank alrich]

an idiot wrote:

snip

X-Complaints-To:

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Richard Crowley]

"hank alrich" wrote ...
an idiot wrote:

snip

X-Complaints-To:

the buzzard doesn't even have that email address configured on their
server because they don't give a hot steaming pile about complaints.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"hank alrich" wrote ...
an idiot wrote:

snip

X-Complaints-To:

the buzzard doesn't even have that email address configured on their
server because they don't give a hot steaming pile about complaints.


Don't worry. Graham is on the case :-)