[[email protected]]

I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

It's hard to believe such lunacy could independently occur
in more than one person. Any pointers to the actual source
would be appreciated.

Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 04:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

It's hard to believe such lunacy could independently occur
in more than one person. Any pointers to the actual source
would be appreciated.

Billy Y..

That's simple. The source is the analogue mechanical meter on which it
was based. The pointer doesn't vanish when the peak is finished, it
slowly drifts down, one graduation at a time.

d

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 04:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time.


On 2/3/2017 2:56 AM, Don Pearce wrote:
That's simple. The source is the analogue mechanical meter on which it
was based. The pointer doesn't vanish when the peak is finished, it
slowly drifts down, one graduation at a time.


There's a specific fallback time for a standard VU meter, and it's
pretty fast, not a slow crawl. While I've never seen a meter that works
like the one Billy described, my guess is to give you a better chance of
noticing that something overloaded.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:




There's a specific fallback time for a standard VU meter, and it's
pretty fast, not a slow crawl. While I've never seen a meter that works
like the one Billy described, my guess is to give you a better chance of
noticing that something overloaded.


** Most peak reading VUs and also PPMs have slow fall back times - it stops needle blur and improves reading accuracy with repeated peak levels.

I guess you either like it like that, or you don't.



..... Phil

[geoff]

On 4/02/2017 1:08 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:




There's a specific fallback time for a standard VU meter, and it's
pretty fast, not a slow crawl. While I've never seen a meter that works
like the one Billy described, my guess is to give you a better chance of
noticing that something overloaded.


** Most peak reading VUs and also PPMs have slow fall back times - it stops needle blur and improves reading accuracy with repeated peak levels.

I guess you either like it like that, or you don't.



.... Phil



That's because the needle cannot follow the real signal AND hold a
display of the peak at the same time.

A peak LED can stay on for a period while the rest of the meter follows
the real signal level, so surely a slowly descending peak LED is
pointless and stupid ?

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 03/02/2017 12:00, Mike Rivers wrote:

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 04:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time.


On 2/3/2017 2:56 AM, Don Pearce wrote:
That's simple. The source is the analogue mechanical meter on which it
was based. The pointer doesn't vanish when the peak is finished, it
slowly drifts down, one graduation at a time.


There's a specific fallback time for a standard VU meter, and it's
pretty fast, not a slow crawl. While I've never seen a meter that works
like the one Billy described, my guess is to give you a better chance of
noticing that something overloaded.

There is also a standard for a (Quasi)PPM, initially set back in the
days when the BBC started using them in the 1930s. It's set at about 2.3
seconds to drop by 24db (Six scale divisions) when the signal disappears
entirely. The meter should integrate short peaks, depending on their
level taking up to 100ms to show a true peak level and under reading on
shorter ones. It works in the same way as the peak hold facility on my
DAW metering, but with a slower rise time.

PPM's were normally only used in broadcast settings, with most people
using VU meters for day to day recordings.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Mike Rivers wrote:

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 04:14:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time.


On 2/3/2017 2:56 AM, Don Pearce wrote:
That's simple. The source is the analogue mechanical meter on which it
was based. The pointer doesn't vanish when the peak is finished, it
slowly drifts down, one graduation at a time.


There's a specific fallback time for a standard VU meter, and it's
pretty fast, not a slow crawl. While I've never seen a meter that works
like the one Billy described, my guess is to give you a better chance of
noticing that something overloaded.

Don is thinking of a peak hold meter like a PPU meter. And they do actually
do that.

But, the problem comes when you put peak and average meters on the same
display....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , wrote:
I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

What does this? I have never seen that... it would drive me up the wall and
I don't think that meets BS.1770...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

On 03/02/2017 14:17, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , wrote:
I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

What does this? I have never seen that... it would drive me up the wall and
I don't think that meets BS.1770...
--scott

An electronic version of a PPM as used by the BBC. It complies with IEC
60268-10 (1991)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_programme_meter

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

Scott D'Orsey! wrote: "
What does this? I have never seen that... "


You would - on mostly consumer-grade gear with
meters. I'm also sure there is a button that if
you keep cycling it would turn off such slow
downward cascade.

[None]

thekma @ retardsRtheckmaaaah . shortbus . edu wrote in message
...
Scott D'Orsey! wrote: "
What does this? I have never seen that... "


You would - on mostly consumer-grade gear with
meters. I'm also sure there is a button that if
you keep cycling it would turn off such slow
downward cascade.

What festering dumb-**** orifice did you pluck that hallucination
from? Did you take too many retard pills this morning?

[JackA]

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 12:02:43 PM UTC-5, None wrote:
thekma @ retardsRtheckmaaaah . shortbus . edu wrote in message
...
Scott D'Orsey! wrote: "
What does this? I have never seen that... "


You would - on mostly consumer-grade gear with
meters. I'm also sure there is a button that if
you keep cycling it would turn off such slow
downward cascade.

What festering dumb-**** orifice did you pluck that hallucination
from? Did you take too many retard pills this morning?

When are we going to hear your R&B music? You know, Retarded & Boring? :-)

Jack

[[email protected]]

JackA wrote: "On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 12:02:43 PM UTC-5, None wrote:
thekma @ retardsRtheckmaaaah . shortbus . edu wrote in message
...
Scott D'Orsey! wrote: "
What does this? I have never seen that... "


You would - on mostly consumer-grade gear with
meters. I'm also sure there is a button that if
you keep cycling it would turn off such slow
downward cascade.

What festering dumb-**** orifice did you pluck that hallucination
from? Did you take too many retard pills this morning?

When are we going to hear your R&B music? You know, Retarded & Boring? :-)

Jack "

Stop talking to machines!

[JackA]

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 10:53:09 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Scott D'Orsey! wrote: "
What does this? I have never seen that... "


You would - on mostly consumer-grade gear with
meters. I'm also sure there is a button that if
you keep cycling it would turn off such slow
downward cascade.

As I feel, too many watch these VU meters like these are gospel, like hitting or going beyond a peak or two will destroy the world. I'm my expert opinion, peaks do nothing for music, why I found audiophile pressings boring. Actually, there should be a Peak, Average and RMS level for VU meters.

Jack

[John Williamson]

On 04/02/2017 18:04, JackA wrote:
As I feel, too many watch these VU meters like these are gospel, like hitting or going beyond a peak or two will destroy the world. I'm my expert opinion, peaks do nothing for music, why I found audiophile pressings boring. Actually, there should be a Peak, Average and RMS level for VU meters.

Jack

A gentle hint. When you are down a hole up to your eyeballs, stop digging.

That post shows how little claim you have to even a little knowledge of
how the recording process works at the sharp end of the business, but we
all knew that anyway.

Meters are an important tool, especially when you are recording sound
that has to work with sound that others record and is used in the same
project. Meters and metering software exists that does all you mention
and more.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[[email protected]]

John Williamson wrote: "Meters are an important tool, especially when you are recording sound
that has to work with sound that others record and is used in the same
project. Meters and metering software exists that does all you mention
and more. "


Tell that to Mr. Ian "Use Your Ears not your Eyes" Shepard!
I suspect that he and JackA are in the same camp.

[None]

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
sneck

Please don't feed the turd.

[JackA]

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 at 5:34:43 AM UTC-5, John Williamson wrote:
On 04/02/2017 18:04, JackA wrote:
As I feel, too many watch these VU meters like these are gospel, like hitting or going beyond a peak or two will destroy the world. I'm my expert opinion, peaks do nothing for music, why I found audiophile pressings boring. Actually, there should be a Peak, Average and RMS level for VU meters.

Jack

A gentle hint. When you are down a hole up to your eyeballs, stop digging..

That post shows how little claim you have to even a little knowledge of
how the recording process works at the sharp end of the business, but we
all knew that anyway.

Meters are an important tool, especially when you are recording sound
that has to work with sound that others record and is used in the same
project. Meters and metering software exists that does all you mention
and more.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

You MAY remember this hit from 1968. I never heard it sound so good.
Why I use my ears to tell me where there's distortion, because metters can't...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...iloveyou-s.mp3

Jack

[[email protected]]

Scott Dorsey writes, quoting me:

I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

What does this? I have never seen that...

The Sound Devices PIX series of recorders, among others, but
theirs are what finally got me interested in seeking out the
creator of this crap. Sound Devices themselves are incapable
of responding coherently.

it would drive me up the wall and I don't think that meets
BS.1770...

I will post a short movie of this later in the week, when I'm
back at Fox. I don't normally use these recorders - in fact,
due to numerous other bugs/moronity I go out of my way to
avoid them.

Just one of many is their completely disabling use of the "-"
character in file and track names coz they can't otherwise
figure out how to parse it as the delmiter for mono wave file
track numbers. And if that's not bad enough, they then sent
me on a useless hunt for a keyboard with a working "-" key...

Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number

[[email protected]]

I will post a short movie of this later in the week,
when I'm back at Fox.

http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MOV
or
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MP4

Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number

[geoff]

On 9/02/2017 6:35 a.m., wrote:
I will post a short movie of this later in the week,
when I'm back at Fox.
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MOV
or
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MP4

Billy Y..


Yes, very pretty , but a meaningless gimmick IMO !

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 08/02/2017 17:35, wrote:
I will post a short movie of this later in the week,
when I'm back at Fox.

http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MOV
or
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MP4

Billy Y..

Standard and useful metering for a lot of uses. The current level is the
solid lighted area, showing the "sort of RMS" value a VU meter would
show, as that's a good representation of the loudness of the channel.
The one segment lit up on the right is emulating the movement of a
standard PPM needle quite well, holding the peak long enough for it to
be seen clearly and slowly dropping back until the next peak resets it,
giving you the information you need to avoid clipping.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[JackA]

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 11:18:13 PM UTC-5, John Williamson wrote:
On 08/02/2017 17:35, wrote:
I will post a short movie of this later in the week,
when I'm back at Fox.

http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MOV
or
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MP4

Billy Y..

Standard and useful metering for a lot of uses. The current level is the
solid lighted area, showing the "sort of RMS" value a VU meter would
show, as that's a good representation of the loudness of the channel.
The one segment lit up on the right is emulating the movement of a
standard PPM needle quite well, holding the peak long enough for it to
be seen clearly and slowly dropping back until the next peak resets it,
giving you the information you need to avoid clipping.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

PPM Parts Per Million?
PPM Potable People Meter?

Jack

[geoff]

On 9/02/2017 5:17 PM, John Williamson wrote:
On 08/02/2017 17:35, wrote:
I will post a short movie of this later in the week,
when I'm back at Fox.

http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MOV
or
http://MIX.ORG/IMG_0588.MP4

Billy Y..

Standard and useful metering for a lot of uses. The current level is the
solid lighted area, showing the "sort of RMS" value a VU meter would
show, as that's a good representation of the loudness of the channel.
The one segment lit up on the right is emulating the movement of a
standard PPM needle quite well, holding the peak long enough for it to
be seen clearly and slowly dropping back until the next peak resets it,
giving you the information you need to avoid clipping.



So what is the useful significance of the peak indicator slowly dropping
back (yes, hold it for a period for sure, to ensure it isn't missed),
when no signal is actually doing that ?

Surely the actual peak and the current signal are all that is
important, and the animated toy means nothing at all ?

geoff

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 06-02-2017 18:59, wrote:
Scott Dorsey writes, quoting me:

I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

What does this? I have never seen that...

The Sound Devices PIX series of recorders, among others, but
theirs are what finally got me interested in seeking out the
creator of this crap. Sound Devices themselves are incapable
of responding coherently.

it would drive me up the wall and I don't think that meets
BS.1770...

I will post a short movie of this later in the week, when I'm
back at Fox. I don't normally use these recorders - in fact,
due to numerous other bugs/moronity I go out of my way to
avoid them.

Aha, thank you! - now I see the issue! - including the actual story in
the original post is often helpful

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Just one of many is their completely disabling use of the "-"
character in file and track names coz they can't otherwise
figure out how to parse it as the delmiter for mono wave file
track numbers. And if that's not bad enough, they then sent
me on a useless hunt for a keyboard with a working "-" key...

Billy Y..

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 03-02-2017 05:14, wrote:

I'm wondering who the hell is responsible for a particularly
annoying audio peak amplitude indicator metering function.

Specifically, after the peak hold time has expired, instead
of extinguishing, the peak indicator slowly drifts downward
one segment at a time. Bink. Bink. Bink. Useless, useless
info. Actually worse than useless...

It's hard to believe such lunacy could independently occur
in more than one person. Any pointers to the actual source
would be appreciated.

Ah that would be a peak reading meter for people who record classical
music with simple mic setups. We just wanna know whether the soprano did
clip it in spire of her 12 dB additional headroom. This because while a
clipped snare is "rock sound" then a clipped soprano is possibly
"retake" sound. Yes, digital contraption trickery can do wonders in
terms of clip restoration, but better not rely them doing it.

Billy Y..

Kind regards

Peter Larsen