I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while.
I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001
Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft
ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it
just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to
take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear
it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just

can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if
even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he
wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no
good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good
to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals

Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /

opinions!

DA

Wonder how much you need to spent to please your hear. I don't know if
I have to spent nearly $500 just for music. Lately I've replaced
sterero, amp, speak.
The sound much better than before I don't know if I want better system
than
what I've now. Certainly I would not need Alpine crap. It's way too
much.
For under $100 stereo system, my car audio is better than ever.
200watts radio,
400W amp and 400W speakers. What's more I need it. The last thing I
need is a
bridge speaker system for mass bass garbage sound. I don't know if
really
need that cuz I don't listen much of Hip-hop anyway...

www.engrish.com


wrote in message
ups.com...

DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while.
I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001
Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft
ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it
just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to
take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear
it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just

can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if
even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he
wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no
good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good
to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals

Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /

opinions!

DA

Wonder how much you need to spent to please your hear. I don't know if
I have to spent nearly $500 just for music. Lately I've replaced
sterero, amp, speak.
The sound much better than before I don't know if I want better system
than
what I've now. Certainly I would not need Alpine crap. It's way too
much.
For under $100 stereo system, my car audio is better than ever.
200watts radio,
400W amp and 400W speakers. What's more I need it. The last thing I
need is a
bridge speaker system for mass bass garbage sound. I don't know if
really
need that cuz I don't listen much of Hip-hop anyway...

Sponge wrote:
www.engrish.com


www.suckmydick.com




wrote in message
ups.com...

DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a
while.
I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001
Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft
ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to
the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that
it
just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help
me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to
take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to
hear
it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing
(just

can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if
even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he
wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do
no
good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty
good
to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer
deals

Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall
of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any
input /

opinions!

DA

Wonder how much you need to spent to please your hear. I don't
know if
I have to spent nearly $500 just for music. Lately I've replaced
sterero, amp, speak.
The sound much better than before I don't know if I want better
system
than
what I've now. Certainly I would not need Alpine crap. It's way too
much.
For under $100 stereo system, my car audio is better than ever.
200watts radio,
400W amp and 400W speakers. What's more I need it. The last thing I
need is a
bridge speaker system for mass bass garbage sound. I don't know if
really
need that cuz I don't listen much of Hip-hop anyway...

I can't tell you what's wrong with your system, of course, but I have been
building systems in cars for 16 years and there are a number of true-isms
that I have observed through the years. First, virtually all modern CD head
units work and sound quite well. The sound quality difference between a
$100 head and a $1000 head will be undetectable by most people, so when
someone says that Alpine is crap they are most likely just trying to get you
to buy another (one of their's). Frankly, Alpine has built a reputation
over the years as a dependable, great sounding product.

Second, I have found that the biggest factor between good sounding systems
and poor sounding systems is NOT how much money is spent. It usually boils
down to installation quality. Systems installed well, where no corners are
cut and special consideration is given to speaker placement (for instance)
almost always sound better than sloppy installs, even when the gear isn't
the best.

I have listened to zillions of cars over the years and if I had to guess
what is missing in your car (and this is only a guess), I would say it's
good midbass. Real quality midbass upfront is hard to achieve in the
automotive environment and almost always requires some serious custom
installation work (kick-panels, door modifications, etc.). EQ's can help,
but will never really solve that kind of problem.

MOSFET

"DA" wrote in message
...
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

Without listening to the system, I can't say what's "missing". But adding
an EQ to fix that is a little premature. You could probably fix the
problem, depending on what it is, by relocating speakers (tweeters in your
case), adding some damping material, changing xover points, etc. Like
MOSFET said, it's all about the install. The guy saying that Alpine is crap
is a lying moron and you shouldn't waste your time with him.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"DA" wrote in message
...
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me tweak
it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take it and
adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it so I let
him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just can't put my
finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I bought the EQ
from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't adjust any
system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to me
(just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals Diamond
and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of Panasonic
HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

I would agree. Alpine makes fine head units. The most dramatic change
to how a system sounds are speakers of course. Most decent amps, head
units will not alter the sound quality.

Now with the Infinity speakers you are using, they are known for lack
of midbass. And to be honest, good midbass is somewhat of lost city of
Atlantis in car audio. Its the hardest thing to get right along with
imaging.

Again, like the above posters said. Start out cheap. If you don't want
to replace your Infinitys, you can sound deaden your doors. Don't need
name brand $10/sf sound deadener. Partsexpress.com sell generic stuff
for about $1.50/sf or less. Search google on how to do this. That will
help the midbass somewhat.

Make sure your crossover settings are good. Those infinitys are going
to do much under 50-60hz. So mess around with the cuttoff point. Also,
mess around with your subs cuttoff point. Shouldn't be much more than
80hz or so, otherwise you will hear midbass from the rear.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500
Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

Tony, Nice System! Sorry, I have to go clean the drool off my keyboard.

MOSFET

[NOBASS]

There used to be a "flavour of the month" dealer in my home town. Don't get me wrong, he really knew his stuff, but would definitely favour one manufacturer over another depending on what that company had for spiffs for him that week or if you had something he didn't carry. Nothing wrong with Panasonic, but I certainly wouldn't be trading in your Alpine for one.

As for the sound problem, check the connections to the speakers to see if they are all polarized correctly. One speaker out of phase can make a huge difference. Then, if that doesn't help, try changing the phase on a few drivers (swap positive for negative either at the amp output side or the speaker input side) - do one at a time, listen and see if it makes a difference. Currently I'm running my 2 subs out of phase to the rest of the system and it made a dramatic improvement. I've heard of guys who will have two or three speakers reversed with huge improvements.

Mark

The guy is just trying to sell his own equipment. Alpine is not "junk"
as he put it. The dealer I go to here in Iowa sells Alpine, Panasonic,
Diamond Audio, Infinity, and Rockford Fosgate, just to name the ones
listen in this particular post. Alpine and Panasonic are sold right next
to each other and each are (IMO) very good and I've owned a couple
models of both. It all depends on what features/ergonomics/aesthetics
you're looking for.

You don't appear to have any of the time-correction controls on that HU,
so NOBASS gave some good advice with the phase testing. Sometimes one or
more speakers could be out enough for cancellation to occur, which could
be causing you're hearing.

Brandonb


DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

In article ,
DA wrote:

I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

There are 2 scenarios that I can think of why he said this.

A. He simply cannot do what you asked him to do.
B. He wishes for you to buy a headunit from him.

How are your fronts installed?

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

bahahahahahahahahaha

wrote in message
oups.com...

Sponge wrote:
www.engrish.com


www.suckmydick.com




wrote in message
ups.com...

DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a
while.
I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001
Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft
ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to
the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that
it
just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help
me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to
take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to
hear
it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing
(just

can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if
even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he
wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do
no
good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty
good
to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer
deals

Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall
of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any
input /

opinions!

DA

Wonder how much you need to spent to please your hear. I don't
know if
I have to spent nearly $500 just for music. Lately I've replaced
sterero, amp, speak.
The sound much better than before I don't know if I want better
system
than
what I've now. Certainly I would not need Alpine crap. It's way too
much.
For under $100 stereo system, my car audio is better than ever.
200watts radio,
400W amp and 400W speakers. What's more I need it. The last thing I
need is a
bridge speaker system for mass bass garbage sound. I don't know if
really
need that cuz I don't listen much of Hip-hop anyway...

I dont mean to sound like a complete idiot, but does that really work? What
would exactly be happening when you do that? (The phazing). I've never
actually hear dof doing this on purpose.


"NOBASS" wrote in message
...

There used to be a "flavour of the month" dealer in my home town. Don't
get me wrong, he really knew his stuff, but would definitely favour one
manufacturer over another depending on what that company had for spiffs
for him that week or if you had something he didn't carry. Nothing
wrong with Panasonic, but I certainly wouldn't be trading in your
Alpine for one.

As for the sound problem, check the connections to the speakers to see
if they are all polarized correctly. One speaker out of phase can make
a huge difference. Then, if that doesn't help, try changing the phase
on a few drivers (swap positive for negative either at the amp output
side or the speaker input side) - do one at a time, listen and see if
it makes a difference. Currently I'm running my 2 subs out of phase to
the rest of the system and it made a dramatic improvement. I've heard
of guys who will have two or three speakers reversed with huge
improvements.

Mark


--
NOBASS

The dealer is an idiot and you should find another one who's willing to
help you and doesn't have his head shoved up his ass.

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, DA wrote:

I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

i don't listen to hip hop either, but I find most stock systems (including
the aftermarket "200 watt" stereos) to be woefully inadequate. Your
generalization is derived from ignorance.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2005 wrote:


DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while.
I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001
Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft
ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it
just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to
take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear
it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just

can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if
even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he
wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no
good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good
to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals

Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /

opinions!

DA

Wonder how much you need to spent to please your hear. I don't know if
I have to spent nearly $500 just for music. Lately I've replaced
sterero, amp, speak.
The sound much better than before I don't know if I want better system
than
what I've now. Certainly I would not need Alpine crap. It's way too
much.
For under $100 stereo system, my car audio is better than ever.
200watts radio,
400W amp and 400W speakers. What's more I need it. The last thing I
need is a
bridge speaker system for mass bass garbage sound. I don't know if
really
need that cuz I don't listen much of Hip-hop anyway...

"Kirby" wrote in message
news:bXzOd.345010$8l.80885@pd7tw1no...
I dont mean to sound like a complete idiot, but does that really work? What
would exactly be happening when you do that? (The phazing). I've never
actually hear dof doing this on purpose.




Poor man's time allignment. I've also seen systems that are out of phase
from the get-go, Maybe the fronts are out of phase. Hell, My local circuit
city high end display is out of phase,, HAHAHAHAHA. I mention it and they
think I'm insane, others think I'm god, Duh, can't you hear that big f-ing
hole in the middle!!!!! Sad thing is they probably don't sell as much
Alpine because it's out of phase and makes no low end without subs, but the
inaging is oh-so spacious

Chad

Chad

Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.

Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.


So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise.

Chad

Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.


So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise.

How much would that kick ass?

If I could somehow rig my computer to have 9 outputs, and be able to
digitally filter and "time-align" each output, I'd be in heaven...

Chris wrote: "So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit
amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise."

My Eclipse has 6 pre-outs, that when used in "pro" mode can independently
control time alignment and output level. It's really quite nice.

Tony



--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.


So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise.

Chad

MZ wrote:
i don't listen to hip hop either, but I find most stock systems
(including
the aftermarket "200 watt" stereos) to be woefully inadequate. Your
generalization is derived from ignorance.


YOur don't like 200 watt stereo system? How much watts is pleasing
your ear?
1000? 2000? 200 Watt is enough for me. I got a hugh mega bass from
new Amp that I did not get it before. My Amp has a LP bridging
subwoofer sound. Well you like a competition but I don't compete with
other system. I think the most mega booming bass you hear from HipHop
is a junkie sound.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Which never sounds good. Buy a deck with time alignment. They are not
much money. Makes a HUGE difference. Nuff said.


So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise.

How much would that kick ass?

If I could somehow rig my computer to have 9 outputs, and be able to
digitally filter and "time-align" each output, I'd be in heaven...



This would make my cheeks clap:

Headunit with CD player, tuner, 2 ADs (aux inputs), a knob, a bunch of soft
buttons, and a big display.

Fiber out carying 2 channels of audio, data upstream and data downstream.
Then a +vcc, a ign turn on, ground, inputs, and antenna.

Fiber goes to an 8 output "box" where the 8 outs can be assigned to
anything. Like the pro audio loudspeaker processors. This would also
include remote turn on output, and Sat radio receivers.

Software would include extensive EQ, delay, and filtering.

GUI on front panel of head unit, and lockable.

No ground loops, one cable to run to the rear of the auto, massive control.

Titties and beer!

Chad

"Tony F" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote: "So they make a headunit with 9 outs to time allign a mulit
amped rig? I
would be stoked with 5 outs, Hi L/R, Lo L/R and Sub. Please advise."

My Eclipse has 6 pre-outs, that when used in "pro" mode can independently
control time alignment and output level. It's really quite nice.

Tony


But I'm looking for extensive crossover capabilities also, so I can tri amp
a rig and gain control of the whole thing. I have thought about going with
a pro audio unit, some of the industrial units have switch closure lines
that will allow for preset (scene) changes. I'm not going to be messing with
it all the time but a setting for windows up and windows down would be nice.
Extensive time allignment would be nice. I would like to push my left
channel back a bit and both my 6.5's as they are in the doors and the tweets
are in the kick panels. The right tweet would be the only thing with zero
delay (except for latency).

Chad

wrote in message
oups.com...

MZ wrote:
i don't listen to hip hop either, but I find most stock systems
(including
the aftermarket "200 watt" stereos) to be woefully inadequate. Your
generalization is derived from ignorance.


YOur don't like 200 watt stereo system? How much watts is pleasing
your ear?
1000? 2000? 200 Watt is enough for me. I got a hugh mega bass from
new Amp that I did not get it before. My Amp has a LP bridging
subwoofer sound. Well you like a competition but I don't compete with
other system. I think the most mega booming bass you hear from HipHop
is a junkie sound.


You only gain 3dB from doubling your output power minus power compression.

Headroom doesn't hurt when you have physics working against you.

Hip Hop has a long duty cycle with high average power levels and less
transients than other music. If you had a clean recording of a big deep
maple snare drum and a good drummer you would find out how easy it is to run
out of power.

As a recording engineer at the local university (now full time as EE) I have
classical recordings that are so unadulterated that they are difficult to
listen to in a car going down the road. If I decide to listen to them at
home on my low power fire-bottles I must start in a quiet room as to not
quickly run out of power. Turning down halfway through a movement totally
loses your mental picture of dynamics, I actually listen to the dynamics to
get an idea of performance qualities.

Mass music today is squashed to the Nth degree, yep it's loud, it was mixed
that way. Do I smash my pop/rock mixes? Hell yeah! If I didn't Joe Schmoe
would me taking my gig. That's the new mentality. I blame it on the Ipod
revolution, and the poor music education of today's learners.

Listen to some of the earlier all digital recordings and get an idea of
dynamics. My old Frankie Goes To Hollywood sounds almost broken compared to
modern mixes, but that bad-dad slams digital full scale no problem a couple
times. After listening to the whole thing the newer albums give me stress.
Dire Straits/Mark Knopfer, another dynamic artist allowed to shine.

Another example; My primary occupation was performance audio engineering
(now retired). My club rig (for the only band I work for) is a 15KW rig,
this ain't 15 1 KWpmpo computer speakers either, the amp rack weighs over
300 pounds, is extensively digitally controlled, and "plugs in" to the
breaker box. Do I use all 15KW at some time in the evening, you bet! What's
my average power throughout the evening going to the stacks? Probably less
than 150W. Live music.

Now if I took that exact same rig, same room, and played DJ, If I decided to
use that 15KW on modern pre-recorded music, just hit it a couple times, I
would hurt you. Why? Average levels are way up. Power draw from the source
would also go way up, etc.

Take what I said and move it into a car with an obnoxious noise floor, and a
nut loose behind the wheel. Now your only advantage is cabin gain If you
can afford the power, get it, you WILL use it. 200WRMS in a car ain't squat.

Chad

YOur don't like 200 watt stereo system?

Your stereo system is not 200 watts, even though they make that claim on the
packaging.

How much watts is pleasing
your ear?
1000? 2000?

Sure.

200 Watt is enough for me.

Luckily, for the rest of us, your opinion is not universal.

I got a hugh mega bass from
new Amp that I did not get it before. My Amp has a LP bridging
subwoofer sound. Well you like a competition but I don't compete with
other system.

Actually, I don't. For 7 years, I've written in this newsgroup about how
worthless "competing" is.

[NOBASS]

If you have two loudspeakers playing the same frequency or frequencies (such as a left and right front midrange in a car) and one is connected out of phase as compared to the other, the sound waves will be out of phase by 180 degrees (will appear "upsidedown" if viewed on a scope) and they will cancel each other out. One driver will be "pushing" (cone moving out) when the other is be "pulling" (cone moving in). It's like adding a plus to a minus - +2 plus -2 equals 0.

This is easily demonstrated in a two subwoofer vehicle installation - simply reverse the leads on one woofer and the bass will dissappear! As someone said earlier, it seems like there is a big "hole" in the sound.

Remember that reversing the phase on a speaker can be done by accident or on purpose. By accident I mean a wiring fuggup, on purpose meaning to correct a phase alignment problem or a driver placement problem that is causing a cancellation. It can also be used at crossover points to reduce peaks.

This should not be confused with "time alignment" - that is when a slight delay (in the order of milliseconds) is applied to one or more channels of audio to correct for speaker distance placement in a car. For instance, you would delay the audio slightly on the left speakers in a LHD car so that the audio from the two speakers gets to the listener's ears at the same time. Phase changes do not affect the "timeline" of audio, but can potentially make a time misaligned car sound better.

Mark

Originally Posted by Kirby

I dont mean to sound like a complete idiot, but does that really work? What
would exactly be happening when you do that? (The phazing). I've never
actually hear dof doing this on purpose.

Chad Wahls wrote:

blame it on the Ipod revolution

That's ridiculous! Volume war started in the mid 90s, 5 full years
before the first iPod came out.

What is true is that compressed music do sound better on cheap playback
equipment. And whatever was released before the mid-90s will sound
better on a powerfull, full range stereo but will sound lifeless and
weak on current boombox.

Britney will sound OK on a 199$, 50 watts boombox but Dire Straits needs
the kW and 12s!

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

"But I'm looking for extensive crossover capabilities also, so I can tri amp
a rig and gain control of the whole thing. I have thought about going with
a pro audio unit, some of the industrial units have switch closure lines
that will allow for preset (scene) changes. I'm not going to be messing with
it all the time but a setting for windows up and windows down would be nice.
Extensive time allignment would be nice. I would like to push my left
channel back a bit and both my 6.5's as they are in the doors and the tweets
are in the kick panels. The right tweet would be the only thing with zero
delay (except for latency)."


Chad,

I think you should start a whole new thread entitled, "Dream Head Units".
If you don't, I will. Sounds like fun!

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

you know you can't compensate high power sound with a 6x9" auto
speaker no matter how high
the tech is. This is why Hip-Hop Woofer speaker is so large big and
heavy.

Eric Desrochers wrote:
Chad Wahls wrote:

blame it on the Ipod revolution

That's ridiculous! Volume war started in the mid 90s, 5 full years
before the first iPod came out.

What is true is that compressed music do sound better on cheap
playback
equipment. And whatever was released before the mid-90s will sound
better on a powerfull, full range stereo but will sound lifeless and
weak on current boombox.

Britney will sound OK on a 199$, 50 watts boombox but Dire Straits
needs
the kW and 12s!


MP3 is not better than uncompress non-digital music. It is like
listening
Acoustic piano verse digtal keyboard. I can't play digitial keyboard
to please my ear. I need a Acoutic piano. YOu can't enjoy Chopin with
digital keyboard. Listening to Britney from Mp3 is really sucked. I
never like her. She is not a singer.










--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

MP3 is not better than uncompress non-digital music. It is like
listening
Acoustic piano verse digtal keyboard.

The mp3 format is indistinguishable from the source, if you use the right
encoder and bitrate. Especially in a noisy car.

Mechanically and sonically it is great.
My main bitch is the text display. It doesn't have a scroll mode,
limited characters, and only one catagory at a time can be viewed.

DA wrote:
I'm like a lot of others here and have been out of car audio a while. I
recently built a system (bought mostly on the Internet)in my 2001 Jeep
Grand Cherokee that consists of:

HU: Alpine CDA-9827
Front: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Rear: Infinity 6000cs Separates
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.4
Subs: 2 Rockford Fosgate RFZ3812 8ohm 12's (sealed - 1.25 cu. ft ea.)
Amp: Soundstream XStream XTA480.2

All installed by me.

I went to a local sound shop and was looking for a EQ to add to the
system. The owner asked me why I needed one and I told him that it just
sounded like something was missing and I thought an EQ could help me
tweak it a little and once I got the EQ installed I wanted him to take
it and adjust it for me using the right equipment. He wanted to hear it
so I let him have a listen. He said that something was missing (just
can't put my finger on what yet)but that he wouldn't adjust it if even I
bought the EQ from him. He said because my HU was junk and he wouldn't
adjust any system with Alpine in it because he knew it would do no good.

I know this is no "top of the line" system but it sounds pretty good to
me (just wish I could figure out what was missing). The dealer deals
Diamond and Memphis which I know is good stuff but he had a wall of
Panasonic HU's. But since when is Alpine junk?

Guess I just wanted to vent a little...sorry. Thanks for any input /
opinions!

DA

wrote:

MP3 is not better than uncompress non-digital music.

There seem to be a misunderstanding here. When I said compressed music,
I meant *audio volume* compression, not the data reduction of
MP3/AAC/WMA. Audio compression and limiting is done on purpose by the
sound engineers at the studio/mastering facility and have absolutely
nothing to do with the end distribution medium. Not to be confused with
"compressing a file" into a mp3...

Hope it's clearer now!

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

MP3 is not better than uncompress non-digital music. It is like
listening
Acoustic piano verse digtal keyboard. I can't play digitial keyboard
to please my ear. I need a Acoutic piano. YOu can't enjoy Chopin with
digital keyboard. Listening to Britney from Mp3 is really sucked. I
never like her. She is not a singer.

Huh!?

YOu can't enjoy Chopin with
digital keyboard. Listening to Britney from Mp3 is really sucked. I
never like her. She is not a singer.

Huh!?

Well it's perfectly clear what he meant: Chopin played a digital keyboard
while Britney sang! I mean, duh.

MOSFET

Sorry it took so long to post an update here. I tried several of the
suggestions you folks posted...thanks alot!!! I even played with the
phasing of the speakers like one poster suggested. Didn't help in this
case but man I sure learned a lot doing that. It's amazing what you can
do with the sound by just reversing some wires here and there...played
with that for a whole weekend.

Here's where I'm at now. I had one set of Infinity seperates in the
front doors and another in the rear doors. I took the tweets from the
back set and moved them into the dash. I tried just moving the front
tweets up there but didn't really help. Anyway, that moved the imaging
up to where it should be...much better now...MUCH!!! Doesn't sound too
awesome in the back but I don't care, I don't have to ride back there.
Dynamatted (or cheap variation thereof)the doors. That helped the
midbass quite a bit. I can live with it for a while now. It's still
not perfect...though as we all know it never is or we would install the
perfect system and never touch it again and what would be the fun in that.

Half the fun is convincing your wife you need to spend another $350 on
your system...hahahaha!

Thanks for all the help.

DA