I am looking for a new head unit after quite a while. My current HU is a
Clarion Pro Audio. I have owned an Eclipse (pre-amp only) unit, Pioneer
Premier (along time ago) and an Alpine.

My past experiences havegone like this:
Pioneer Premier - good reliability, better than average SQ
Alpine - better than average SQ, lousy quality (broke and sent repair twice
before they got it fixed
Eclipse - great SQ, fragile CD mechanism that needed repair twice over 3 or
4 years
Clarion - SQ close to Eclipse, better reliability but finicky CD playing in
cooler weather. downright stubborn in cold weather until it really warms up.

I am looking for real good SQ and reliability. Have things changed much
over the last 7 - 8 years or do current models track with my past
experience? I am using Diamond Hex components in the front, a 12" JL Audio
sub, a OptiDrive 500 (an old original one) for the sub and a McIntosh MC427
for the front stage. A high quality sounding deck will be noticeable.

I am also not looking for fancy display graphics.

Some things I would like a
24 bit D/A converters (SACD capability would be ideal)
Sensitive FM tuner (any comments on HD FM radio)
Quiet preamp outputs
Sub woofer control from the HU
Built-in crossover (looking to optimize mid-bass performance).

I appreciate your input.

Alpine, Clarion and Eclipse are still great brands and IMHO, you can't go
wrong with any of those.

But here's what has changed in the last 8 years....

Eight years ago I would not have even considered any brand other than those
three. They were truly a cut above when it came to sound quality (and they
were the only ones who were doing 4 volt pre-outs, for instance). I
remember doing S/N ratio tests at Car Toys back in '96 and how much the Sony
and Pioneer decks sucked. I would use the Sheffield Labs "My Disc" and use
that portion of the test where a musical track attenuates in 10 dB steps
until you have to crank the volume to still hear the music. I recall how
Alpine and Clarion were truly superior to all other decks.

Today, things have totally evened up and I would absolutley own a Sony or
Pioneer today. The quality of today's gear compared to eight years ago is
incredible. Sure, there are still a few bad apples now and then, but by and
large the sound quality of ALL major brands is very high and I frankly
really can't hear any differences.
Of course, my 37 year old ears aren't what they once were.

MOSFET
"Steve" wrote in message
news
I am looking for a new head unit after quite a while. My current HU is a
Clarion Pro Audio. I have owned an Eclipse (pre-amp only) unit, Pioneer
Premier (along time ago) and an Alpine.

My past experiences havegone like this:
Pioneer Premier - good reliability, better than average SQ
Alpine - better than average SQ, lousy quality (broke and sent repair
twice
before they got it fixed
Eclipse - great SQ, fragile CD mechanism that needed repair twice over 3
or
4 years
Clarion - SQ close to Eclipse, better reliability but finicky CD playing
in
cooler weather. downright stubborn in cold weather until it really warms
up.

I am looking for real good SQ and reliability. Have things changed much
over the last 7 - 8 years or do current models track with my past
experience? I am using Diamond Hex components in the front, a 12" JL
Audio
sub, a OptiDrive 500 (an old original one) for the sub and a McIntosh
MC427
for the front stage. A high quality sounding deck will be noticeable.

I am also not looking for fancy display graphics.

Some things I would like a
24 bit D/A converters (SACD capability would be ideal)
Sensitive FM tuner (any comments on HD FM radio)
Quiet preamp outputs
Sub woofer control from the HU
Built-in crossover (looking to optimize mid-bass performance).

I appreciate your input.

With all the head units you listed, were you using the same speakers and
amplifiers with your evaluations? Same car?


"Steve" wrote in message
news
I am looking for a new head unit after quite a while. My current HU is a
Clarion Pro Audio. I have owned an Eclipse (pre-amp only) unit, Pioneer
Premier (along time ago) and an Alpine.

My past experiences havegone like this:
Pioneer Premier - good reliability, better than average SQ
Alpine - better than average SQ, lousy quality (broke and sent repair
twice
before they got it fixed
Eclipse - great SQ, fragile CD mechanism that needed repair twice over 3
or
4 years
Clarion - SQ close to Eclipse, better reliability but finicky CD playing
in
cooler weather. downright stubborn in cold weather until it really warms
up.

I am looking for real good SQ and reliability. Have things changed much
over the last 7 - 8 years or do current models track with my past
experience? I am using Diamond Hex components in the front, a 12" JL
Audio
sub, a OptiDrive 500 (an old original one) for the sub and a McIntosh
MC427
for the front stage. A high quality sounding deck will be noticeable.

I am also not looking for fancy display graphics.

Some things I would like a
24 bit D/A converters (SACD capability would be ideal)
Sensitive FM tuner (any comments on HD FM radio)
Quiet preamp outputs
Sub woofer control from the HU
Built-in crossover (looking to optimize mid-bass performance).

I appreciate your input.

I had different cars, speakers and amps. Although not at the same time.
For example, I would get a new vehicle and move my existing system. Then I
may upgrade some component. I would listen for a while until I understood
the net result of the component change and then I would shoot for an
improvement in an area that I felt was lacking (or may have neeed to change
something because an item broke down).

I have had my Diamond Hex for approx 6 years, the McIntosh amp for about 4
years, and the Clarion for about 4 years. I moved all (except the McIntosh
amp) into my present vehicle (standard cab full size Chevy truck) when I
purchased it in 2001. I upgraded to the McIntosh about six months later.

Thanks. I look forward to reading your input on my original post regarding
headunit recommendations and experiences.

I had different cars, speakers and amps. Although not at the same time.
For example, I would get a new vehicle and move my existing system. Then I
may upgrade some component. I would listen for a while until I understood
the net result of the component change and then I would shoot for an
improvement in an area that I felt was lacking (or may have neeed to
change
something because an item broke down).

I have had my Diamond Hex for approx 6 years, the McIntosh amp for about 4
years, and the Clarion for about 4 years. I moved all (except the
McIntosh
amp) into my present vehicle (standard cab full size Chevy truck) when I
purchased it in 2001. I upgraded to the McIntosh about six months later.

Thanks. I look forward to reading your input on my original post regarding
headunit recommendations and experiences.


I echo what the other poster said about head units these days providing no
discernable coloration to the sound. While it may sometimes be tempting to
attribute sound quality preferences to the head unit that comes from a
manufacturer known for using high quality DACs and op amps, the fact is that
today's head units are all "perfect". That is, even some of the cheapest
DACs used for this application are indistinguishable even from outboard DAC
units. Some head units are more prone to pass noise down the output though,
and require messing around with grounds and the like.

If you think about it, it's remarkable how they've been able to keep
distortion so low at very little cost to them.

Sony? No way. Build quality is still very poor. Pioneer, Alpine,
Eclipse any of the top models from those are fine.

Sony? No way. Build quality is still very poor. Pioneer, Alpine,
Eclipse any of the top models from those are fine.

What do you mean "still"? It wasn't too long ago that Sony's ES line was
considered by many to be one of the best out there. What have they done to
create poor SQ? And what tests are you citing?

Carsound.com reviewed Sony, Pioneer, and Alpine head units, and their
preouts all had similar measurements in terms of distortion and noise (when
unclipped). Take a look.

What do you mean "still"? It wasn't too long ago that Sony's ES line was
considered by many to be one of the best out there.

That's true. Sony was the first (followed closely by Clarion) to use 20 bit
Burr-Brown DAC's in their ES line. Not what I would call crappy quality.

MOSFET

"Sony? No way. Build quality is still very poor. Pioneer, Alpine, Eclipse
any of the top models from those are fine."

Dude. I've been a huge fan of Sony ES for many years. Never had any
problems. I love the current Eclipse unit I have (for different reasons
than my old CDX-C90), but it should be noted that within 2 weeks of
receiving my Eclipse the disc transport mechanism went tits up and would not
eject or load any CDs. Of course, it was replaced, and I haven't had any
problems with the new one (knock on wood). A friend of mine has an Alpine
CDA-7998 and he loves it as well. But every time he turns the volume knob
up or down it makes a crackling sound in the speakers.

So what were you saying again about Sony build quality?

Tony



--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

I agree. Sonys ES line which has been gone for a long while was very
well made. Since they dropped that line and went full steam with their
Xplod line it has been downhill ever since.