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#1
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
For any of you who have actually tried to weather-proof a
condenser mic, could you tell me about your experiences with that? What works well and what doesn't, both in terms of maintaining integrity of the frequency response as well as protecting the microphone element from moisture and wind? Or if you have *used* professional "outdoor" mics that are already designed to be weatherproof, which features or approaches seem to work well? Believe it or not, this appears to be a topic that has not yet been discussed on rec.audio.pro. From web-based "research", I have found 4 high-end product lines, some from familiar manufacturers and others from companies I've never heard of. In case you're interested, I'll list details below. But those are all what I call very expensive. On the other end of the spectrum, there seem to be a few grass-roots efforts to put together cheap solutions, such as "Bird Bugs" and "Outside Ears", but each has it's own drawbacks. I'm hoping to find some way to weatherproof a mic with relatively flat, full-spectrum frequency response for monitoring wildlife sounds and analyzing them. This is for permanent installation, not just some parabolic reflector you take with you on a nature hike. I was even thinking that something like the Behringer ECM8000 would be a good mic to start with because it is dirt cheap and otherwise sonically suited for the purpose. Perhaps it would be reasonable to buy one of those "wind-screens" with the little bird spikes and the internal rain-shield that go along with the high end outdoor measurement mics and try to put it on the ECM8000. Of course, this also necessitates finding some small but reasonable consumer-quality mic pre. Anybody got any insight into this approach? Any other helpful info? Other options would be to use moisture resistant micro mics like the DPA body-worn thingies, but they cost several hundred, which is bit out of range. And I am not aware of any affordable dynamic cartridges that can give what might be called full-spectrum response, though that might have been a good option since a dynamic might not be so demanding about avoiding moisture. Ideally for the intended application, the mics and weatherproofing and consumer-grade mic pre's for them all together will only cost about $100 or maybe $150, while still maximizing quality and minimizing the aesthetic impact of the mics on the environment. Thanks for any tips. -- Keith W Blackwell (if emailing, change "homemail" to "jymis" in address to avoid delays) PS: Here are some details I promised: First, the expensive stuff: B&K makes some, like the 4181: http://www.bksv.com/1344.htm (also the 4198: http://www.bksv.com/pdf/Bp1696.pdf) Others I had not heard of before include: Norsonic http://www.norsonic.com/web_pages/microphone_info.html Cirrus Research http://www.cirrusresearch.co.uk/out_mics.html Gras http://www.gras.dk/ Notice how they all provide those windscreens with bird spikes? Now for some cheapies: Outside Ears has mic pre's built into the speakers! But the mics leave a lot to be desired with their hollow plastic containers: http://www.outsideears.com/about.htm Bird Bugs are fairly serious, using small parabolic reflectors (soft rubber bowls) with protective grills (probably for car speakers) and a thin coax cable connecting a small electret capsule to a small box containing a little circuit board with the power for the mics as well as preamps (it has 2 1/4 TS jacks for the mics and one TRS mini jack for the line-level output). http://natural-technology.com/ |
#2
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
Keith W Blackwell wrote:
For any of you who have actually tried to weather-proof a condenser mic, could you tell me about your experiences with that? What works well and what doesn't, both in terms of maintaining integrity of the frequency response as well as protecting the microphone element from moisture and wind? For what? I do a lot of gigs where mikes need to be outside for a while. I like using the Sennheiser MKH-20s as much as possible, since the omni pattern reduces wind noise, and the RF electronics don't have trouble with humidity. I wouldn't leave them up for days on end, though. Or if you have *used* professional "outdoor" mics that are already designed to be weatherproof, which features or approaches seem to work well? Most of the measurement mike companies make monitoring mikes intended for long-term outdoor use. The Larson-Davis and B&K ones get used a lot on a contract job that I spend most of my time on. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
Keith W Blackwell wrote:
For any of you who have actually tried to weather-proof a condenser mic, could you tell me about your experiences with that? What works well and what doesn't, both in terms of maintaining integrity of the frequency response as well as protecting the microphone element from moisture and wind? If you're talking about serious moisture, have you considered a condom over something more traditional ? It'll keep the rain out. No idea about the sound. Graham |
#5
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
Thanks for the replies.
I hadn't heard of "Larson-Davis", Scott. If they're anything like the B&K and other high-end mics, they will be much to expensive to even consider. This is for permanent outdoor installation, but targetting a low-end market (wildlife and bird enthusiasts, especially home-owners, but also nursing homes, etc.). I'm only doing this because I've been unable to find a job since being laid off 1.8 years ago, and someone here is wanting to put together a product to do this and is willing to pay me to try some different things and come up with a solution (or a "can't be done" answer). It's just a way to make a little income. I was actually thinking of asking you about the mic-pre end of this as well, possibly even recommending that you be contracted for it if some custom solution has to be designed. I had forgotten about the Countryman mics, Ty, but I think they cost about $300, right? I wonder how they can be waterproof? I mean, they are condensers, after all. And yes, Graham, the condom was the first idea, but there is some concern about tympanic resonance. I was wondering of a small amount of foam between the condom and the mic would help with that. Small diameter omnis are too small for condoms to fit tightly, anyway. At least, I'm not aware of any micro-condoms, and a balloon would likely be too thick and more likely to be leaky. Have a wonderful day, friends, -- Keith W Blackwell |
#6
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
Keith W Blackwell wrote:
I hadn't heard of "Larson-Davis", Scott. If they're anything like the B&K and other high-end mics, they will be much to expensive to even consider. Larson-Davis, ACO, and guys like that all make measurement mikes, more or less on a par with the B&K stuff. Microtech-Gefell also has a measurement mike lint. This is for permanent outdoor installation, but targetting a low-end market (wildlife and bird enthusiasts, especially home-owners, but also nursing homes, etc.). I'm only doing this because I've been unable to find a job since being laid off 1.8 years ago, and someone here is wanting to put together a product to do this and is willing to pay me to try some different things and come up with a solution (or a "can't be done" answer). It's just a way to make a little income. I was actually thinking of asking you about the mic-pre end of this as well, possibly even recommending that you be contracted for it if some custom solution has to be designed. If you use a premade capsule, you don't need a real preamp, just some gain at the preamp. I had forgotten about the Countryman mics, Ty, but I think they cost about $300, right? I wonder how they can be waterproof? I mean, they are condensers, after all. They are shockingly waterproof, but I don't know how long they will last outside. The guys at Countryman will know, though. And yes, Graham, the condom was the first idea, but there is some concern about tympanic resonance. I was wondering of a small amount of foam between the condom and the mic would help with that. Small diameter omnis are too small for condoms to fit tightly, anyway. At least, I'm not aware of any micro-condoms, and a balloon would likely be too thick and more likely to be leaky. The traditional mike for the condom treatment is the SM-57, and it works fairly well. A condom will NOT last very long outside, though. They are not designed for outdoor exposure. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
Keith W Blackwell wrote:
And yes, Graham, the condom was the first idea, but there is some concern about tympanic resonance. I was wondering of a small amount of foam between the condom and the mic would help with that. Read my post again! You are on the right track. Low density foam would prolly be fine. And it'll stretch the condom. You may inded need to experiment to avoid resonances but at leat latex is fairly damped. Small diameter omnis are too small for condoms to fit tightly, anyway. At least, I'm not aware of any micro-condoms, and a balloon would likely be too thick and more likely to be leaky. LOL ! Graham |
#8
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Weather-proofing outdoor condenser mics
In Article ,
(Keith W Blackwell) wrote: Thanks for the replies. I hadn't heard of "Larson-Davis", Scott. If they're anything like the B&K and other high-end mics, they will be much to expensive to even consider. This is for permanent outdoor installation, but targetting a low-end market (wildlife and bird enthusiasts, especially home-owners, but also nursing homes, etc.). I'm only doing this because I've been unable to find a job since being laid off 1.8 years ago, and someone here is wanting to put together a product to do this and is willing to pay me to try some different things and come up with a solution (or a "can't be done" answer). It's just a way to make a little income. I was actually thinking of asking you about the mic-pre end of this as well, possibly even recommending that you be contracted for it if some custom solution has to be designed. I had forgotten about the Countryman mics, Ty, but I think they cost about $300, right? I wonder how they can be waterproof? I mean, they are condensers, after all. Have a wonderful day, friends, -- Keith W Blackwell Keith, The wire grille on the caps is so small and tight that water can't get through it. I'm sure at some depth and pressure that water could get through it, but I've done the dunk test and it works. Yup. at least $300. Regards, Ty Ford **Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address. Please remove it if you want to email me directly. For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews, click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford |
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