[Lorin David Schultz]

Jan Holm wrote:

Btw 1.411 Mb/s = uncompressed stereo wave 44.1khz 16 bit
A 20 Mb/s would give you 28 channels !!!!



Yeah, but unfortunately the developers have decided to use up the
bandwidth with jerky postage-stamp videos of the band, interactive video
games with animated band members as the game characters, and an online
chat area. That leaves 128k for audio! g

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Lorin David Schultz]

Federico wrote:

Years ago speed was slow and memory was expensive, so MP3-128Kb/s
was ok. Now we have terabyte big HD and Cable (imagin what will it
be in 5 years from now).


I suspect you may be a young person. We had this exact conversation
here about six years ago. Very little has changed in that time in terms
of connection speed.

More people now use high-speed connections than then, but the speed of
the connection has not improved much.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Romeo Rondeau]

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:CuItg.135368$S61.44662@edtnps90...
Jan Holm wrote:

Btw 1.411 Mb/s = uncompressed stereo wave 44.1khz 16 bit
A 20 Mb/s would give you 28 channels !!!!



Yeah, but unfortunately the developers have decided to use up the
bandwidth with jerky postage-stamp videos of the band, interactive video
games with animated band members as the game characters, and an online
chat area. That leaves 128k for audio! g

So true...

*rant on* In the future people could go and actually see the performer
performing! No need to worry about playback devices and DRM and compression
and file formats. People would just go and see real human beings performing
the music :-) No need to wait hours downloading video, just go to the club
and BAM! They do the song right there. While you're there, you can meet
people who also like that kind of music, putting an end to chat rooms and
stupid forums and newsgroup trolls. Thirsty? Grab a beer! They got plenty...
they got games too, play some darts or some pool... strike up a conversation
with someone interesting, imagine the possibilities. Sometimes you can buy a
T-shirt, hat or a bumper sticker, avoiding the 2 weeks or more it takes to
order something online. And you can pay in cash (those little green coupons
some people still insist on using), avoiding your credit card number from
getting stolen while you're online. Instead of searching for someone's
myspace page to tell them how great they are, you can walk up to the stage
after the set and tell them right to their face, or if you are less subtle,
just scream "Whoooo!"... It's a radical idea, but it's just crazy enough to
work... *rant off*

[Romeo Rondeau]

More people now use high-speed connections than then, but the speed of the
connection has not improved much.

Cable modems have actually gone down in speed. When I first got mine back in
'98, it was wide open and 8-9Mbps was not unusual at all. There was no
upload cap. Files weren't nearly as big as they are now, either. Now, CD
burning programs are 125 megs and require ****loads of free drivespace.

[Joseph Ashwood]

wrote in message
. ..
Those are excellent points--all of them. My guess is that protection will
be overlaid on the other requirements of the new protocol, in the
commercial market at least.

Speaking as a cryptanalyst with 10 years of experience such effort would be
wasted and the result would be no better than CSS used in DVDs as far as
real protection goes. There is a reason the only "secure" systems that
survive in the wild have security built in from the beginning, for security
you overlay whatever you are working with on top of the security.
Joe

[Joseph Ashwood]

wrote in message
. ..

I think the first step is to realize the consumption style of music goes
through fads, they just tend to be longer than most people think of fads. I
believe the replacement to the CD will requi
1 Dynamic playtime (5 minutes to 3 hours should suffice)
2 Seperation of Sub-woofer track
3 Ability to contain video as well (in music we really are heading this
way, more music is sold because of the video on MTV than because of the
radio)
4 Easily copiable
5 Cheap

2-5 will be the selling points for the users, and 1 will be a convenience
point. As for the DRM, which will unfortunately be necessary to meet the
desires of the rights holders.
6 Transfer between devices, only 1 device can use it at a time
7 Extremely difficult to make a high-fidelity recording
8 CHEAP!!!!!!!!
9 Remote disable

Other useful features:
10 Ability to collect information about what is played back in which
situations
11 Profiling of users to enable finer grained marketing


Unfortunately, fidelity does not play into it, as long as the fidelity is
reasonably high users don't care. Most users won't tell the difference
between LP, CD and DVD-Audio, and MP3 has become the most popular format for
actual listening. Basically what is needed is something that blends the
benefits. This is where the ability for a location like a record store to
house a huge amount of disc storage, easily enough space for 1 Petabyte, and
almost certainly enough in most locations for 100 Petabytes. Combine this
with a reusable flash drive, and we have achieved 1, 4 and 5 (since it's
reusable the relatively small cost can be pushed onto the users with minimum
trouble, it can also double as the playback device). 2 and 3 are achievable
with a number of different already available formats (my personal preference
is Matroska, but there are others). The DRM covers the rest, and while 10
and 11 are currently difficult, 6,7 and 8 are achievable, 9 cannot be
achieved dependably regardless of the technology used.

I could discuss in great depth the facets of DRM and the methods of doing
it, but I don't think that discussion would be appropriate for any of the
included groups.
Joe

[Lorin David Schultz]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

*rant on* In the future people could go and actually see the
performer performing! No need to worry about playback devices and
DRM and compression and file formats. People would just go and see
real human beings performing the music :-) No need to wait hours
downloading video, just go to the club and BAM! They do the song
right there. While you're there, you can meet people who also like
that kind of music, putting an end to chat rooms and stupid forums
and newsgroup trolls. Thirsty? Grab a beer! They got plenty... they
got games too, play some darts or some pool... strike up a
conversation with someone interesting, imagine the possibilities.
Sometimes you can buy a T-shirt, hat or a bumper sticker, avoiding
the 2 weeks or more it takes to order something online. And you can
pay in cash (those little green coupons some people still insist on
using), avoiding your credit card number from getting stolen while
you're online. Instead of searching for someone's myspace page to
tell them how great they are, you can walk up to the stage after
the set and tell them right to their face, or if you are less
subtle, just scream "Whoooo!"... It's a radical idea, but it's
just crazy enough to work... *rant off*



LOL! That was ****in' great. Keep that one!

Funny how the whole live thing works. Today I was on a live TV remote
as part of a news show. The location was a street party and there was a
band playing. Cheap instruments, crappy little portable PA, but they
sounded *good*.

All I had was the Senn MKH shotgun, but it sounded okay in the cans so I
suggested the control room take a shot of the band before going to
commercial.

After the show my wife complained that they sounded horrible. She said
the singer sounded like she was skreeching and the players sounded
amateurish. Obviously some of that can be attributed to the delivery
chain: shotgun mic, ENG mixer, wireless link to truck, crappy mixer and
integrater in truck, microwave link to tower, fibre transmission to
station, D-A/mixing/compression/A-D at the station, local cable company
destruction, TV set tuner, stereo system (hmm, y'know, now that I think
about it, it really is truly amazing that any of this ever works AT ALL!
g), but the bigger issue is the difference between standing there in
that environment rather than being detached from it. Who knows, maybe
the singer really was bad, but if she was, no one who was *there*
noticed.

Same thing happened with a gospel group I mixed for live air. I had a
hoot and loved them. Later, when I watched an air check I discovered
that they really sucked quite horribly. Good thing I was there when
they did it live or I'd never have known how great they are!

Funny how the dynamics of a live performance can overcome all kinds of
flaws.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Joseph Ashwood]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Albatross" wrote ...
Vinyl records were massively entrenched and are still in the picture now,
unlike other technolgies which have come & gone, or are on their way out.
Can any other technology boast of being playable still in 100 years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_record#History

Writing/printing on paper?
Oil paintings?
Photography?

You're missing the more important one to this conversation: scores. I have
had a 400+ year old score in my hand, it was just as readable as ever.
Joe

[Arny Krueger]

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
.com
More people now use high-speed connections than then,
but the speed of the connection has not improved much.

Cable modems have actually gone down in speed. When I
first got mine back in '98, it was wide open and 8-9Mbps
was not unusual at all. There was no upload cap. Files
weren't nearly as big as they are now, either. Now, CD
burning programs are 125 megs and require ****loads of
free drivespace.

Agreed. What changed is that high speed internet companies now *manage* the
bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" wrote in message


I would be surprised of there is ANY newly produced
physical music media in about 5 years.

There is arguably more newly produced physical music (and video) media than
ever. What changed is who produces the in-use media - now the consumer
produces it from downloads and content he makes by himself or with friends.

What is arguably going away is specialized media for distributing audio and
video, and the business of loading of that media in central specialized
factories.

IOW, people now load their own flash cards and CDs. People now make their
own audio and video content.

Flash devices and CDs are generalized, user-managed media for handling just
about any kind of data, and are not specialized one-time-use media for just
music or video.

The other big change is that producing the video and audio content is
becoming far more decentralized.

[Albatross]

100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use 100
years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.

Yes it's likely that no new Record Players will be made in 20 years time,
but I daresay that there will be plenty still around in peoples storage or
homes. Vinyl recording playback is so simple that it can be done without
electricity, and records made near 100 years ago can be played NOW.

Will that still be the case for CD's? I doubt it.. how many people still
have or use Cassettes? That technology has well & truly passed.
I guess it's similar to what has happened with the printed word. It's gone
from carved in stone to intangible emails, which will be lost when the PC is
turned off.. It seems the more advanced we are, the less history we leave
behind...

Don't get me wrong, I am all for progress & love the fact I can do things on
my PC that 10 years ago ( or 5 even!) were impossible to imagine.

Cheers,
Ric

[St. John Smythe]

Joseph Ashwood wrote:
Speaking as a cryptanalyst with 10 years of experience such effort would be
wasted and the result would be no better than CSS used in DVDs as far as
real protection goes. There is a reason the only "secure" systems that
survive in the wild have security built in from the beginning, for security
you overlay whatever you are working with on top of the security.

Still trying to figure out how to implement a one-time pad for music.

--
St. John
"The chain which can be yanked is not the eternal chain."
-G. Fitch

[Federico]

What changed is that high speed internet companies now *manage* the
bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.

I agree with you.
But let's put it this way:

1) I have an iPod (or similar).
2) Once I buy a CD I upload the .wav files into my PC (or Mac).
3) Then I make a copy into my iPod (or similar).
4) And then? What do I do with that plastic disk? I really won't use it
anymore. I have nearly 5000 CDs and I don't know where to physicly put
them!!!
My home stereo is connected to my "home server" and all' the files are
backed up once a month. And my house is full of little funny plastic disks.

IMHO it is only a delivery problem....
F.

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

Agreed. What changed is that high speed internet companies now
*manage* the bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.

In defense of the ISP's, they manage the rate partly because of the
skyrocketing demand for their product. They simply can't provide max
speed to everyone at the same time.

Now to bash them. US i-net is far behind the rest of the world. We pay
ten times as much for slower service.

[Arny Krueger]

"Albatross" rjarnold AT optus home.com.au wrote in
message
100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have
been in use 100 years? Technology just started hauling
ass, things move too fast now. I don't think you'll find
a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.

Yes it's likely that no new Record Players will be made
in 20 years time, but I daresay that there will be plenty
still around in peoples storage or homes. Vinyl recording
playback is so simple that it can be done without
electricity, and records made near 100 years ago can be
played NOW.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

100-year-old recordings are *very* different beasts from the recordings that
play on players commonly available in the past 20 years.

You can try to play a cylinder or a 78 on your Rega 2 if you want to, and I
wish you all the luck in the world with your attempt. ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Federico" wrote in message

What changed is that high speed internet companies now
*manage* the bandwidth for consistent, economical
performance.

I agree with you.
But let's put it this way:

1) I have an iPod (or similar).

So do I - its a NJB3, and I have a few flash-based players kicking around
the house, too.

2) Once I buy a CD I upload the .wav files into my PC (or
Mac).

Ditto.

3) Then I make a copy into my iPod (or similar).

Ditto

4) And then? What do I do with that plastic disk?

Put it in storage because its the token that symbolizes your copyright
license.

I
really won't use it anymore. I have nearly 5000 CDs and I
don't know where to physicly put them!!!

If you discard the jewel cases, they shrink quite a bit.

[Arny Krueger]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

Agreed. What changed is that high speed internet
companies now *manage* the bandwidth for consistent,
economical performance.

In defense of the ISP's, they manage the rate partly
because of the skyrocketing demand for their product.


I think the skyrocket is flying pretty predictably and not gaining altitude
that rapdily any more.

They simply can't provide max speed to everyone at the
same time.

Shouldn't need to, either.

Now to bash them. US i-net is far behind the rest of the
world. We pay ten times as much for slower service.

Something about the geographic exclusive franchises that have been granted,
or exist because of the lame technology (e.g., DSL).

[Jan Holm]

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote
Yeah, but unfortunately the developers have decided to use up the
bandwidth with jerky postage-stamp videos of the band, interactive video
games with animated band members as the game characters, and an online
chat area. That leaves 128k for audio! g

Not if you use shoutcast - and for most streams its pretty easy
to find the direct link and use it in say Winamp.

When stuff like http://www.slimdevices.com/ becomes the norm
someone has to rethink all this embedded crap.

Regards
Jan Holm

[Jeff Findley]

"Federico" wrote in message
...

What changed is that high speed internet companies now *manage* the
bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.

I agree with you.
But let's put it this way:

1) I have an iPod (or similar).
2) Once I buy a CD I upload the .wav files into my PC (or Mac).
3) Then I make a copy into my iPod (or similar).
4) And then? What do I do with that plastic disk? I really won't use it
anymore. I have nearly 5000 CDs and I don't know where to physicly put
them!!!

5) Burn a copy of the CD for the kids.
6) Burn a copy of the CD for the car.
7) Burn a copy of the CD for one of the Sony CD changers (I've got room for
600 CD's in them).
8) Stick the original CD on the shelf

I know all those copies of the CD aren't quite legal, but what do you do
when your kids scratch and lose your CD's, the car player and operator
scratches them, and you still don't quite trust the Sony CD changers enough
that you want to put thousands of dollars of CD's into them?

My home stereo is connected to my "home server" and all' the files are
backed up once a month. And my house is full of little funny plastic
disks.

IMHO it is only a delivery problem....

This works great if you have the hard drive space for your entire collection
without resorting to lossy compression.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

[Jeff Findley]

"Albatross" rjarnold AT optus home.com.au wrote in message
...
100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use 100
years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.

Yes it's likely that no new Record Players will be made in 20 years time,
but I daresay that there will be plenty still around in peoples storage or
homes. Vinyl recording playback is so simple that it can be done without
electricity, and records made near 100 years ago can be played NOW.

Will that still be the case for CD's? I doubt it.. how many people still
have or use Cassettes? That technology has well & truly passed.
I guess it's similar to what has happened with the printed word. It's gone
from carved in stone to intangible emails, which will be lost when the PC
is turned off.. It seems the more advanced we are, the less history we
leave behind...

But so far, you can play CD's in DVD players and I suspect that many, if not
all, of the new HD DVD and Blue Ray players will also play CD's. I expect
the CD format to be alive for quite some time, especially if the generation
of video players beyond HD DVD and Blue Ray also play CD's.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message


I would be surprised of there is ANY newly produced
physical music media in about 5 years.

There is arguably more newly produced physical music (and video) media than
ever. What changed is who produces the in-use media - now the consumer
produces it from downloads and content he makes by himself or with friends.

What is arguably going away is specialized media for distributing audio and
video, and the business of loading of that media in central specialized
factories.

IOW, people now load their own flash cards and CDs. People now make their
own audio and video content.

Flash devices and CDs are generalized, user-managed media for handling just
about any kind of data, and are not specialized one-time-use media for just
music or video.

The other big change is that producing the video and audio content is
becoming far more decentralized.

This is exactly what I meant. I should have added "for purchase" to my
statement. We'll produce our own physical media, if desired, but there
will be less and less recorded physical media for sale.

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Joseph Ashwood" wrote:

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Albatross" wrote ...
Vinyl records were massively entrenched and are still in the picture now,
unlike other technolgies which have come & gone, or are on their way out.
Can any other technology boast of being playable still in 100 years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_record#History

Writing/printing on paper?
Oil paintings?
Photography?

You're missing the more important one to this conversation: scores. I have
had a 400+ year old score in my hand, it was just as readable as ever.
Joe

What 400 year old score do you have?

As an add-on to this conversation: just as it saddens me that there are
fewer and fewer places to browse CDs etc, there are fewer and fewer
places to browse scores and other sheet music.

[Sander deWaal]

"Romeo Rondeau" said:

Vinyl records were massively entrenched and are still in the picture now,
unlike other technolgies which have come & gone, or are on their way out.
Can any other technology boast of being playable still in 100 years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_record#History


100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use 100
years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.


Ever heard of a spaceprobe called Voyager? ;-)

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/voy...er-record.html

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

[Randy Yates]

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
Jan Holm wrote:

Btw 1.411 Mb/s = uncompressed stereo wave 44.1khz 16 bit
A 20 Mb/s would give you 28 channels !!!!



Yeah, but unfortunately the developers have decided to use up the
bandwidth with jerky postage-stamp videos of the band, interactive video
games with animated band members as the game characters, and an online
chat area. That leaves 128k for audio! g

Amen, Lorin.

--Randy

[Romeo Rondeau]

4) And then? What do I do with that plastic disk? I really won't use it
anymore. I have nearly 5000 CDs and I don't know where to physicly put
them!!!
My home stereo is connected to my "home server" and all' the files are
backed up once a month. And my house is full of little funny plastic
disks.

Send them to me, I'll take care of them for you :-)

[Romeo Rondeau]

100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use 100
years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.


Ever heard of a spaceprobe called Voyager? ;-)

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/voy...er-record.html

Oh, well that settles it! :-)

[Lynn]

"Jan Holm" wrote in message
k...
wrote
A replacement technology should solve all these problems, while
preserving the good features of the CD, notably:

Cant remember where but I read an interview with Mr Gates
stating that Blue Ray / HD DVD will be the last physical format.
From then on youll be streaming from your own server or a central
server via cable or air.

I dont often agree with Gates but I'm in on this one !

Regards
Jan Holm



I never heard that report specifically, but I do believe a central server
for ALL music is the way of the future. I even wrote an article last year
about changes that could be made to copyright to solve all of today's
problems. Of course I was met with complete contempt! -
www.wobblymusic.net/campaign.htm

Strangely, some of the UK music bodies such as PRS are now going for some of
my ideas...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5174292.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5172816.stm


Regards,

Lynn
==============================================
My company - http://www.WobblyMusic.net
My Music - http://www.wobblymusic.net/RecordStore.htm
My Marketing tools - http://www.DoThisToWin.com
My Residual Income Builder - http://www.Music45.com
==============================================

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:45:18 -0700, "chip" wrote:

Haven't talked to many retailers have you? CD Discs get slipped into
pockets on a regular basis. Cargo pants or shorts, anyone? They are
looking not for smaller, but larger, packages so their "shrinkage" is less.
From their viewpoint the LP was ideal. Could display a lot, but rarely
walked out the door unpaid.
Well, the packaging can be large while the medium is small.

Kal

[meammrmustard]

Federico wrote:
What changed is that high speed internet companies now *manage* the
bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.


I agree with you.
But let's put it this way:

1) I have an iPod (or similar).
2) Once I buy a CD I upload the .wav files into my PC (or Mac).
3) Then I make a copy into my iPod (or similar).
4) And then? What do I do with that plastic disk?


You really have to ass, I mean ask???

-meanmrmustard

[Carey Carlan]

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in news:geRtg.4043$2v.336
@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:

100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use
100
years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.


Ever heard of a spaceprobe called Voyager? ;-)

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/voy...er-record.html

Oh, well that settles it! :-)

If you're orbiting the star Sirius...

[Carey Carlan]

Carey Carlan wrote in news:Xns980057476432h2atroak@
140.99.99.130:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

Agreed. What changed is that high speed internet companies now
*manage* the bandwidth for consistent, economical performance.

In defense of the ISP's, they manage the rate partly because of the
skyrocketing demand for their product. They simply can't provide max
speed to everyone at the same time.

Now to bash them. US i-net is far behind the rest of the world. We pay
ten times as much for slower service.

In about 3 years you can have wireless access at DSL speeds anywhere in
the US if this pans out:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3994051.htm

[Sander deWaal]

Carey Carlan said:

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in news:geRtg.4043$2v.336
:

100 years from now? Or are you commenting that they have been in use
100 years? Technology just started hauling ass, things move too fast now. I
don't think you'll find a record player in 20 years, never mind 100.


Ever heard of a spaceprobe called Voyager? ;-)

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/voy...er-record.html


Oh, well that settles it! :-)


If you're orbiting the star Sirius...


The original statement, quoted above, didn't specify a location ;-)

--
"All amps sound alike, but some sound more alike than others".

[Jenn]

In article m,
"Joseph Ashwood" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Joseph Ashwood" wrote:
You're missing the more important one to this conversation: scores. I
have
had a 400+ year old score in my hand, it was just as readable as ever.
Joe

What 400 year old score do you have?

I only had it briefly in my hand, it was an old director score for a piece I
came across in the USC library (to the best of my knowledge it has since
been moved into the private collection). I think the individual part scores
had been lost, but the director score was there.

As an add-on to this conversation: just as it saddens me that there are
fewer and fewer places to browse CDs etc, there are fewer and fewer
places to browse scores and other sheet music.

Most major universities (perhaps most univerisities) have music libraries
with huge numbers of scores available, with a few dating back hundreds of
years, although most will be duplicates and/or modern pieces.
Joe

Believe me, I know this. It seems that I (happily) spend half my life
in the music libraries at Berkeley, UCLA, and USC. But those places
where you can go to scan scores for purchase...new works, new editions
of old works, etc.... are going by the wayside in favor of online
ordering. Byron Hoyt in San Francisco is gone, Pepper is just for the
education market, in L.A. the old Keynote and Carl Fisher are gone. In
CA, about all that is left is Theodore Front (which is great, of course.)

[Scott Dorsey]

chip wrote:
Haven't talked to many retailers have you? CD Discs get slipped into
pockets on a regular basis. Cargo pants or shorts, anyone? They are
looking not for smaller, but larger, packages so their "shrinkage" is less.

If that's the case, why aren't we still using long boxes?

From their viewpoint the LP was ideal. Could display a lot, but rarely
walked out the door unpaid.

I gather that, combined with the fact that the existing LP bins could be used,
was the advantage of the long box.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[dizzy]

Jeff Findley wrote:

But so far, you can play CD's in DVD players and I suspect that many, if not
all, of the new HD DVD and Blue Ray players will also play CD's. I expect
the CD format to be alive for quite some time,

Exactly.

especially if the generation
of video players beyond HD DVD and Blue Ray also play CD's.

Almost certainly, if there is anything beyond them. Some are
predicting that they will be the last "hard" media.

[Eeyore]

wrote:

There have been a number of articles recently discussing the death of the
CD, and wondering what might replace it commercially. Some of the
possibilities discussed are flash memory, downloading a la iPod, or even
sending info directly to the brain. Let's ignore this latter, since it's
not presently possible, and attempt to answer the question of what might
actually take the place of CDs.

Pretty obviously DVDs.

Graham

[Laurence Payne]

On 14 Jul 2006 20:12:10 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Haven't talked to many retailers have you? CD Discs get slipped into
pockets on a regular basis. Cargo pants or shorts, anyone? They are
looking not for smaller, but larger, packages so their "shrinkage" is less.

If that's the case, why aren't we still using long boxes?

From their viewpoint the LP was ideal. Could display a lot, but rarely
walked out the door unpaid.

I gather that, combined with the fact that the existing LP bins could be used,
was the advantage of the long box.

I don't remember the sleeve in the rack ever containing the actual
disk.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:14:03 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

not presently possible, and attempt to answer the question of what might
actually take the place of CDs.

Pretty obviously DVDs.

DVDs *are* CDs. One has capacity for a sellable chunk of video, the
other for a sellable amount of audio.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ...
On 14 Jul 2006 20:12:10 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Haven't talked to many retailers have you? CD Discs get slipped into
pockets on a regular basis. Cargo pants or shorts, anyone? They are
looking not for smaller, but larger, packages so their "shrinkage" is less.

If that's the case, why aren't we still using long boxes?

From their viewpoint the LP was ideal. Could display a lot, but rarely
walked out the door unpaid.

I gather that, combined with the fact that the existing LP bins could be used,
was the advantage of the long box.

I don't remember the sleeve in the rack ever containing the actual
disk.


Don't admit that ! ;-)


I used to really dislike the pile of good-for-nothing trash left after finally
getting to the actual CD case.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"fathom" wrote in message...

The telcos got $200 BILLION in
grants, incentives, and tax breaks to build out their networks.
In exchange for this, they promised that by 2006, virtually
every home in America would be wired with fibre-to-the-curb
offering cheap 45 Mbps connections.

I'll take a cite on that figure and purpose. Sounds more like
displaced Homeland Security money to me.