[bob]

Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl vs.
digital,someone suggests the invention of a "vinylizer," a knob that
can dial in any amount of the various distortions characteristic of
vinyl playback. Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob

[Frank[_11_]]

Il 25/07/2010 23.49, bob ha scritto:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl vs.
digital,someone suggests the invention of a "vinylizer," a knob that
can dial in any amount of the various distortions characteristic of
vinyl playback. Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob



... various distortions?

I'm not getting any of those "various distortions" you're talking about.

How can I get those in my systems?

I'd like to be a happy owner of a misaligned, mismatched, mistuned,
mispriced ... turntable but unfortunately I'm not. ;-)

I only have four beautyfully working and cheaply bought turntables with
the perfectly matched arms and cartridges and so ... I'm very very very sad.


Frank

[Arny Krueger]

"Frank" wrote in message

Il 25/07/2010 23.49, bob ha scritto:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl
vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob



.. various distortions?

Read the web site?

Mechanical Noise - The amount of turntable motor rumble and noise
Electrical Noise - Internally generated electrical noise, such as 60 Hz
grounding hum
Wear Control - how worn out the record is, from brand new to played a few
thousand times
Dust - The amount of dust on the record
Scratch -The number and depth of scratches on the record
Warp -The amount of warping and the warp shape for the record - from no warp
to the edges totally melted and warped

These are all common to vinyl playback, and generally when they are reduced
as much as the art allows by traditional means, they are still audible.

Also, a number of kinds of common vinyl-related distoritons are not
mentioned including:

Tracking distortion
Tracing distortion
Flutter

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:30:20 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Frank" wrote in message

Il 25/07/2010 23.49, bob ha scritto:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl
vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob



.. various distortions?

Read the web site?

Mechanical Noise - The amount of turntable motor rumble and noise
Electrical Noise - Internally generated electrical noise, such as 60 Hz
grounding hum
Wear Control - how worn out the record is, from brand new to played a few
thousand times
Dust - The amount of dust on the record
Scratch -The number and depth of scratches on the record
Warp -The amount of warping and the warp shape for the record - from no warp
to the edges totally melted and warped

These are all common to vinyl playback, and generally when they are reduced
as much as the art allows by traditional means, they are still audible.

Also, a number of kinds of common vinyl-related distoritons are not
mentioned including:

Tracking distortion
Tracing distortion
Flutter

Why would anybody want to add the BAD things about vinyl to their CD
playback? These are things that I take great care to avoid by handling my
vinyl record collection correctly and taking great care to keep them clean,
dust and warp free. I listen to records because they still give me a great
deal of listening pleasure and the the things that this "Vinylizer" brings to
the party, are those very things that I strive to avoid. How about a "CDizer"
a device that adds the harshness and a flat sound stage with poor imaging
that characterized many early CDs and players to modern CD playback? Makes no
sense.

[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:30:20 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Frank" wrote in message

Il 25/07/2010 23.49, bob ha scritto:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about
vinyl vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob



.. various distortions?

Read the web site?

Mechanical Noise - The amount of turntable motor rumble
and noise Electrical Noise - Internally generated
electrical noise, such as 60 Hz grounding hum
Wear Control - how worn out the record is, from brand
new to played a few thousand times
Dust - The amount of dust on the record
Scratch -The number and depth of scratches on the record
Warp -The amount of warping and the warp shape for the
record - from no warp to the edges totally melted and
warped

These are all common to vinyl playback, and generally
when they are reduced as much as the art allows by
traditional means, they are still audible.

Also, a number of kinds of common vinyl-related
distoritons are not mentioned including:

Tracking distortion
Tracing distortion
Flutter

Why would anybody want to add the BAD things about vinyl
to their CD playback?

Sentimentality.

These are things that I take great
care to avoid by handling my vinyl record collection
correctly and taking great care to keep them clean, dust
and warp free.

That helps, but it does not completely resolve the problems.

I listen to records because they still
give me a great deal of listening pleasure and the the
things that this "Vinylizer" brings to the party, are
those very things that I strive to avoid.

The only way to totally avoid them is to avoid vinyl.

How about a
"CDizer" a device that adds the harshness and a flat
sound stage with poor imaging that characterized many
early CDs and players to modern CD playback?

That's just bad mastering, and there is no method to its madness.

Makes no sense.

Some people do the darnedest things!

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:03:35 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Audio Empire" wrote in message

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:30:20 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Frank" wrote in message

Il 25/07/2010 23.49, bob ha scritto:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about
vinyl vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob



.. various distortions?

Read the web site?

Mechanical Noise - The amount of turntable motor rumble
and noise Electrical Noise - Internally generated
electrical noise, such as 60 Hz grounding hum
Wear Control - how worn out the record is, from brand
new to played a few thousand times
Dust - The amount of dust on the record
Scratch -The number and depth of scratches on the record
Warp -The amount of warping and the warp shape for the
record - from no warp to the edges totally melted and
warped

These are all common to vinyl playback, and generally
when they are reduced as much as the art allows by
traditional means, they are still audible.

Also, a number of kinds of common vinyl-related
distoritons are not mentioned including:

Tracking distortion
Tracing distortion
Flutter

Why would anybody want to add the BAD things about vinyl
to their CD playback?

Sentimentality.

Balderdash and blarney! There are things from vinyl playback that I might
WANT to add to a CD (like musicality and warmth and a sense of real
instruments playing in real space), but the above mentioned vinyl artifacts
are not among them.

These are things that I take great
care to avoid by handling my vinyl record collection
correctly and taking great care to keep them clean, dust
and warp free.

That helps, but it does not completely resolve the problems.

Of course it doesn't, but that's beside the point. The point is who would
WANT to add those things to a medium that doesn't have them?

I listen to records because they still
give me a great deal of listening pleasure and the the
things that this "Vinylizer" brings to the party, are
those very things that I strive to avoid.

The only way to totally avoid them is to avoid vinyl.

Yeah, like anybody with a large record collection is dumb enough to do that!

How about a
"CDizer" a device that adds the harshness and a flat
sound stage with poor imaging that characterized many
early CDs and players to modern CD playback?

That's just bad mastering, and there is no method to its madness.

That's not the point either. The point is, that just like with the
"Vinylizer", nobody is going to want to relive those days and those problems.


Makes no sense.

Some people do the darnedest things!

Yeah, that's for sure. Many people throw babies out with bath water too.

[ZeeTso[_2_]]

"bob" wrote in message
...
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl vs.
digital,someone suggests the invention of a "vinylizer," a knob that
can dial in any amount of the various distortions characteristic of
vinyl playback. Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

i use 'tapelyzer' lately: connect your cd to cassette deck, fiddle a little
with levels, bias and dolby, and enjoy pure analog sounding cd material

[Scott[_6_]]

On Jul 25, 2:49=A0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl vs.
digital,someone suggests the invention of a "vinylizer," a knob that
can dial in any amount of the various distortions characteristic of
vinyl playback. Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob

Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be a good idea
if it were done right without the cyncism. Maybe somebody who gets
vinyl will make something that will actually do the job.

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott" wrote in message


On Jul 25, 2:49=A0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl
vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be
a good idea if it were done right without the cyncism.
Maybe somebody who gets vinyl will make something that
will actually do the job.

What is "getting vinyl"?

The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance to most people:

(1) Playing vinyl can be a means for accessing music that was never deemed
to be commercially worthy of rerecording on digital.

(2) Playing vinyl can be a means for obtaining a different approach to
mastering for recordings that were not treated in accordance with our
preferences when it was recorded on digital.

(3) Playing vinyl can be a sentimental act, a trip down memory lane.

The Vinylizer seems to be a heavy-handed approximation that tries to address
the third item on the list.

[C. Leeds]

Arny Krueger wrote:

The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance to most people:

How did you determine these so-called "facts" about vinyl?

[Scott[_6_]]

On Jul 27, 4:48=A0am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message



On Jul 25, 2:49=3DA0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl
vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/
Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be
a good idea if it were done right without the cyncism.
Maybe somebody who gets vinyl will make something that
will actually do the job.

What is "getting vinyl"?


Understanding the sonic aesthetic virtues that can be found with
vinyl.


The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance to most people:


Sorry you don't get to speak for most people. Especially given your
well documented prejudices on vinyl. This product misses the mark IMO.
I am speaking as an audiophile who is interested in the aesthetic
value of sound and appreciates the virtues of the sound one can get
from vinyl. If *you* find some appeal with this product then feel free
to tell us what *you* find appealing about it. I'm not interested in
hearing you try to speak for "most people."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott" wrote in message

On Jul 27, 4:48=A0am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message



On Jul 25, 2:49=3DA0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about
vinyl vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/
Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be
a good idea if it were done right without the cyncism.
Maybe somebody who gets vinyl will make something that
will actually do the job.

What is "getting vinyl"?

Understanding the sonic aesthetic virtues that can be
found with vinyl.

The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance
to most people:

Sorry you don't get to speak for most people.

Not only most but the vast majority of people have long since forgot about
vinyl. The RIAA market share data makes that quite clear.

Especially given your well documented prejudices on vinyl.

What prejudice of mine is that? Is it not true that my comments about vinyl
have been 100% factual, and backed by published, peer-reviewed technical
papers, statistical evidence from reliable industry sources and decades of
personal experience?

This product misses the mark IMO.

But you don't say why in a detailed, convincing way. In fact, you've
presented no evidence that you've ever actually listened to it. Could it be
that your opinions of it are based only on prejudice?

I am speaking as an
audiophile who is interested in the aesthetic value of
sound

Given that you have presented no first hand information about the sound of
this product...

[Audio Empire]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:45:47 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Scott" wrote in message

On Jul 27, 4:48=A0am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message



On Jul 25, 2:49=3DA0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about
vinyl vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/
Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be
a good idea if it were done right without the cyncism.
Maybe somebody who gets vinyl will make something that
will actually do the job.

What is "getting vinyl"?

Understanding the sonic aesthetic virtues that can be
found with vinyl.

The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance
to most people:

Sorry you don't get to speak for most people.

Not only most but the vast majority of people have long since forgot about
vinyl. The RIAA market share data makes that quite clear.

Yet enough people DO value vinyl that records are still pressed and hundreds
of manufacturers still make turntables, some costing a small fortune,
Cartridges are still available at all price points from $20 on the low end to
tens of thousands on the high end with new ones being introduced all the
time. Not to mention a myriad of phono preamps available, again at all price
points, as well as recently introduced preamps and integrated amps that have
phono stages either built-in as standard or available as an option.

Again, rumors of vinyl's demise is greatly exaggerated.

Especially given your well documented prejudices on vinyl.

What prejudice of mine is that? Is it not true that my comments about vinyl
have been 100% factual, and backed by published, peer-reviewed technical
papers, statistical evidence from reliable industry sources and decades of
personal experience?

Your facts are not in question here. Your obvious and oft stated disdain for
vinyl is what gives away your prejudice.

This product misses the mark IMO.

But you don't say why in a detailed, convincing way. In fact, you've
presented no evidence that you've ever actually listened to it. Could it be
that your opinions of it are based only on prejudice?

I am speaking as an
audiophile who is interested in the aesthetic value of
sound

Given that you have presented no first hand information about the sound of
this product...

Wouldn't the fact that this "Vinylizer" introduces wow, flutter, tracking
distortion, ticks and pops automatically disqualify it from serious
consideration by ANY music lover? People who listen to vinyl, at least in my
considerable experience, still listen to it because of two distinct and
different reasons. One faction holds that LP sounds "better" than digital,
and the other faction sees LP as just another source of music (that's the
faction to which I, mostly, belong), like CD, FM radio, tape, downloads from
the internet, etc. Neither like warp wow, eccentric records, ticks or pops,
mis-tracking, Inner-groove distortion, or any of the other ills that can
plague vinyl playback, and most, if not all vinyl listeners strive to avoid
those things. The fact that this "Vinylizer seems to re-introduce these
unwanted artifacts to digital playback is missing the point. Now if it made
digital SOUND like a well recorded, well pressed vinyl record WITHOUT those
unwanted artifacts, then he'd have something.

[Scott[_6_]]

On Jul 29, 7:45=A0am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message







On Jul 27, 4:48=3DA0am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message



On Jul 25, 2:49=3D3DA0pm, bob wrote:
Occasionally, during one of our long threads about
vinyl vs. digital,someone suggests the invention of a
"vinylizer," a knob that can dial in any amount of the
various distortions characteristic of vinyl playback.
Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/
Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be
a good idea if it were done right without the cyncism.
Maybe somebody who gets vinyl will make something that
will actually do the job.

What is "getting vinyl"?
Understanding the sonic aesthetic virtues that can be
found with vinyl.
The facts about vinyl in approximate order of importance
to most people:
Sorry you don't get to speak for most people.

Not only most but the vast majority of =A0people have ...

Nope. You still don't get to speak for them. Sorry. :-)


Especially given your well documented prejudices on vinyl.

What prejudice of mine is that? Is it not true that my comments about vin=
yl
have been 100% factual, and backed by published, peer-reviewed technical
papers, statistical evidence from reliable industry sources and decades o=
f
personal experience?


I think it is fair to say that we disagree on many alleged actual
facts about vinyl. But I am talking about your personal opinions that
you have expressed about the quality of vinyl playback. Clearly those
aesthetic opinions are not objective facts supported by published peer
reviewed technical papers. As for your personal experience....IMO,
based on what you have told us, it is lacking when it comes to world
class vinyl playback and therefore not relevant. Also experience tends
to be affected by prejudice to some degree so it's kinda hard to point
to experience as proof of a lack of prejudice.


This product misses the mark IMO.

But you don't say why in a detailed, convincing way.


What details do you need Arny? How about this? Everything it says it
does....I don't want doen to the sound of my CDs. Everything. So if
you need details review the descriptions of what it does. As for
"convincing?" who do I need to convince? I am quite convinced by the
description of what it does that the product misses the mark for me.


In fact, you've
presented no evidence that you've ever actually listened to it.

That is true. I put some faith in the manufacturer's description of
what the product does.

Could it be
that your opinions of it are based only on prejudice?

No it is based on experience with the distortions detailed in the
manufacturer's desciption and an assumption that the manufacturer is
actually making good on the claims about what the product does.



I am speaking as an
audiophile who is interested in the aesthetic value of
sound

Given that you have presented no first hand information about the sound o=
f
this product...


Excuse me for assuming the product delivers as advertised. Heck maybe
it doesn't....

[Hakim]

On Jul 26, 9:29=A0pm, Scott wrote:
On Jul 25, 2:49=3DA0pm, bob wrote:

Occasionally, during one of our long threads about vinyl vs.
digital,someone suggests the invention of a "vinylizer," a knob that
can dial in any amount of the various distortions characteristic of
vinyl playback. Well, it isn't that simple yet, but technology finds a
way:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

bob

Too bad this one completely missed the mark. It would be a good idea
if it were done right without the cyncism. Maybe somebody who gets
vinyl will make something that will actually do the job.

I have actually used this plug on a record I've mixed: http://rpgmusic.band=
camp.com/