Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel

In article YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no,
Daniel wrote:
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????


You bought the record. Lots of other people bought it. It's overcompressed.
Since so many people bought it, overcompression must be a good thing from
the record company's standpoint.

If you don't like it, and you want to make a point, TAKE IT BACK. Send it
with a letter of complaint to the head of the label. The only way that the
labels will stop with the insane loudaholism is if they somehow get the idea
that people actually care about sound. It's our job to convince them, but
we all need help.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed

I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to
be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the
young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle
both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually.
The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?"
--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

| the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
| **** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
| voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
| "overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

I did a post here 2 weeks ago here asking on how an all tube signal path
would work as recording studio for Country Blues Rock and for Classical
Choral Acoustic musical genres but seemed not to have success..

I was wondering to have the hardware set up like(Ex. Guitar) Mictube
preampmixer (or tube mixer I can do it) tube reel to reel recorder and the
bring the master to the Vinyl company..
....obviously Where the lack of dynamics needs we can put something ( as a
good eq) solid state..
i think that the point is to mix the things to have a good sound (my aim and
meaning of good sound is: "the good old Eagles albums" ...
Im new to recording and im doing all this for myself and few friends so i'll
appreciate any kind of discussion/suggestion.

--
Bye, Paolo.

"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth
a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I
noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel


My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record their
most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my
master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the
recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more
dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they had
made.

The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the
meters pegged.

I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they wan't
constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music.

Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final product.
Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine.

Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy inserts
or music. Ya gotta wonder.

Richard

Get a greese pencil for god's sake.
Does he know what that is?
Tom
"Chris!" wrote in message
news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05...

"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed

I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to
be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the
young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would
handle
both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually.
The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?"
--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel
_____________________

I was a "late follower" consumer of CDs - meaning I jumped on the
bandwagon "almost" as fast as the trendsetting consumers.

As such I own many CDs that were mainly created from what essentially
were cleaned up LP masters. These inclued the two Eagles' Greatest
Hits CDs, Steve Miller 1978-78, and VH II.

These CDs are noticeably "quieter" than the aforementioned Pink and
other CDs of the last 3 years. But when I ran them through my church
mixer(after practice night!!), I noticed something about the mixer's
meters when I cranked up the 70s reissues: They made that mixer's
LED's jump up and down from -infinity up to almost clipping! Pink's
Mizundastood, the meters hovered between -3 & +3dB, even when someone
crashed a cymbal.

Case in point: Due to over compression, today's recordings lack the
dynamic vitality of those issued 10, 20, 30years ago. The sound of
todays artists is not allowed to pass through, and it sounds bland by
comparison.

-ChrisCoaster

What if people started an email campaign. It seems the industry is
feeling the hurt currently and is a tiny bit vulnerable, though they
are blaming everything on internet piracy. Maybe executives would
start to listen if music professionals and consumers bombarded them
with emails. It's got to start somewhere. I know it's cool to be all
jaded and complain, but there are a lot of people who read this
newsgroup and others in audiophile and music fan groups too. It
probably wouldn't be hard to generate 100,000 emails or more.

If you don't like it, and you want to make a point, TAKE IT BACK. Send it
with a letter of complaint to the head of the label. The only way that the
labels will stop with the insane loudaholism is if they somehow get the idea
that people actually care about sound. It's our job to convince them, but
we all need help.
--scott

"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05...
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed

I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to
be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the
young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle
both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually.
The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?"

Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

On 16 Oct 2003 13:08:41 -0700, (ChrisCoaster) wrote:

VH II through my church mixer

LOL!

I just finished a recording of electronic music for CD. Its more or less a
vanity project, my first CD as opposed to cassette and I decided to "master"
it myself , although I have no illusions about my abilities as such (I
simply wanted to stay DIY and learn more). It is not dance music, it is more
akin to "classic" or "so called "academic" electronic music so,
theoretically, I didn't feel the need to over compress. Once I started
"mastering", however, I realized how accustomed to hearing over compressed
music I had become.

Since I had put a couple of months between composing and recording and this
final step I constantly had to check myself to maintain an ear for dynamic
content. I had to remind myself that I WANTED quiet moments. For better or
worse, I decided to only do a little bit of EQ on one piece to tame some
frequency content that wasn't working (the four pieces are based upon
frequency and timbre as opposed to harmony melody and rhythm so I wasn't
concerned about using as much EQ as needed which still ended up being very
little), a very small bit of sonic maximizing, and 2.5:1-3:1 multi-band
compression (very little by today's standards from what I understand). I
then matched levels, called it a day, and started burning.

I have read several articles, interviews and posts on the topic of over
compressing the dynamic range of current music and tried to be diligent
about avoiding such convention. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be
but the end result seems to be a CD that has a wide dynamic range that fits
the music.

I am hoping that the growing awareness of over compression and
dissatisfaction with record industry's output in general will encourage
independent artists to break with current conventions and begin demanding
that the dynamic integrity of their work be maintained throughout the
recording and manufacturing process. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic but
it would be nice to start hearing the "music" instead of the recording.


--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913
"rich rookie" wrote in message
...
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and
worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing
worth
a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I
noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed
the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now
it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel


My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record
their
most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my
master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the
recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more
dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they
had
made.

The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the
meters pegged.

I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they
wan't
constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music.

Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final
product.
Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine.

Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy
inserts
or music. Ya gotta wonder.

Richard

I just finished a recording of electronic music for CD. Its more or less a
vanity project, my first CD as opposed to cassette and I decided to "master"
it myself , although I have no illusions about my abilities as such (I
simply wanted to stay DIY and learn more). It is not dance music, it is more
akin to "classic" or "so called "academic" electronic music so,
theoretically, I didn't feel the need to over compress. Once I started
"mastering", however, I realized how accustomed to hearing over compressed
music I had become.

Since I had put a couple of months between composing and recording and this
final step I constantly had to check myself to maintain an ear for dynamic
content. I had to remind myself that I WANTED quiet moments. For better or
worse, I decided to only do a little bit of EQ on one piece to tame some
frequency content that wasn't working (the four pieces are based upon
frequency and timbre as opposed to harmony melody and rhythm so I wasn't
concerned about using as much EQ as needed which still ended up being very
little), a very small bit of sonic maximizing, and 2.5:1-3:1 multi-band
compression (very little by today's standards from what I understand). I
then matched levels, called it a day, and started burning.

I have read several articles, interviews and posts on the topic of over
compressing the dynamic range of current music and tried to be diligent
about avoiding such convention. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be
but the end result seems to be a CD that has a wide dynamic range that fits
the music.

I am hoping that the growing awareness of over compression and
dissatisfaction with record industry's output in general will encourage
independent artists to break with current conventions and begin demanding
that the dynamic integrity of their work be maintained throughout the
recording and manufacturing process. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic but
it would be nice to start hearing the "music" instead of the recording.


--
Mick Davies
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0203865/


"Let us wander through a great modern city with our ears more attentive than
our eyes..."

Luigi Russolo, 1913
"rich rookie" wrote in message
...
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and
worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing
worth
a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I
noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed
the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now
it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel


My daughter sings in a local childrens choir. I volunteered to record
their
most recent presentation. When those who run the choir listened to my
master, before I had them duplicated, they all complained about how the
recording wasn't loud enough. Only one person mentioned how much more
dynamic range there was in my recording compared to the pervious CD they
had
made.

The end result was that they wanted it squashed really badly. Keep the
meters pegged.

I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they
wan't
constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music.

Too bad really, the choir did good, but you can't tell on the final
product.
Who needs 24 bit recording - 2 or 3 ought to do just fine.

Considering all this, I wonder what sells more CD's these days. Sexy
inserts
or music. Ya gotta wonder.

Richard

All very good points. I have refused to mix or master with over
compression. Absolutely refuse. The interesting thing I have noticed
is that as soon as a mix is heard by someone new to the project, they
ALWAYS say "this sounds great". I'm not tooting my horn here! I find
that the immediate impression of a mix that is not over compressed is
much more pleasant to listen to. It sucks the listener in as soon as
they hear the first measure of the song. I've been paying attention
to this for a while and have yet to have anyone ask me to change.
Interesting.

The last mix I did, we had to do a little suedo mastering because of
the budget. Well the "kids" took the files and threw them into a DAW
and inserted 3 or 4 plugins for eq and compression. It sounded awful.
So, I asked them to route the origional mix out and used some Neve
Comps, and a Massive Passive to enhance the mixes. The reaction by the
listeners was pretty interesting. They used words like warmth,
dimension, life, big and huge.........and the levels were at least 2-3
db's below 0 with a fair amount of dynamics left.

One of the younger workers walked thru and said, "the meters aren't at
0, shouldn't they be at 0? What do you think of the sound? I asked.
"Sounds killer" " Wow, I've never seen those on, what do those do?"
as he asked about the Massive and the Neves.

Pretty damn funny stuff.......I just shook my head.......this IS what
the world is coming to.

Steve




(ChrisCoaster) wrote in message om...
"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel
_____________________

I was a "late follower" consumer of CDs - meaning I jumped on the
bandwagon "almost" as fast as the trendsetting consumers.

As such I own many CDs that were mainly created from what essentially
were cleaned up LP masters. These inclued the two Eagles' Greatest
Hits CDs, Steve Miller 1978-78, and VH II.

These CDs are noticeably "quieter" than the aforementioned Pink and
other CDs of the last 3 years. But when I ran them through my church
mixer(after practice night!!), I noticed something about the mixer's
meters when I cranked up the 70s reissues: They made that mixer's
LED's jump up and down from -infinity up to almost clipping! Pink's
Mizundastood, the meters hovered between -3 & +3dB, even when someone
crashed a cymbal.

Case in point: Due to over compression, today's recordings lack the
dynamic vitality of those issued 10, 20, 30years ago. The sound of
todays artists is not allowed to pass through, and it sounds bland by
comparison.

-ChrisCoaster

All very good points. I have refused to mix or master with over
compression. Absolutely refuse. The interesting thing I have noticed
is that as soon as a mix is heard by someone new to the project, they
ALWAYS say "this sounds great". I'm not tooting my horn here! I find
that the immediate impression of a mix that is not over compressed is
much more pleasant to listen to. It sucks the listener in as soon as
they hear the first measure of the song. I've been paying attention
to this for a while and have yet to have anyone ask me to change.
Interesting.

The last mix I did, we had to do a little suedo mastering because of
the budget. Well the "kids" took the files and threw them into a DAW
and inserted 3 or 4 plugins for eq and compression. It sounded awful.
So, I asked them to route the origional mix out and used some Neve
Comps, and a Massive Passive to enhance the mixes. The reaction by the
listeners was pretty interesting. They used words like warmth,
dimension, life, big and huge.........and the levels were at least 2-3
db's below 0 with a fair amount of dynamics left.

One of the younger workers walked thru and said, "the meters aren't at
0, shouldn't they be at 0? What do you think of the sound? I asked.
"Sounds killer" " Wow, I've never seen those on, what do those do?"
as he asked about the Massive and the Neves.

Pretty damn funny stuff.......I just shook my head.......this IS what
the world is coming to.

Steve




(ChrisCoaster) wrote in message om...
"Daniel" wrote in message news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Daniel
_____________________

I was a "late follower" consumer of CDs - meaning I jumped on the
bandwagon "almost" as fast as the trendsetting consumers.

As such I own many CDs that were mainly created from what essentially
were cleaned up LP masters. These inclued the two Eagles' Greatest
Hits CDs, Steve Miller 1978-78, and VH II.

These CDs are noticeably "quieter" than the aforementioned Pink and
other CDs of the last 3 years. But when I ran them through my church
mixer(after practice night!!), I noticed something about the mixer's
meters when I cranked up the 70s reissues: They made that mixer's
LED's jump up and down from -infinity up to almost clipping! Pink's
Mizundastood, the meters hovered between -3 & +3dB, even when someone
crashed a cymbal.

Case in point: Due to over compression, today's recordings lack the
dynamic vitality of those issued 10, 20, 30years ago. The sound of
todays artists is not allowed to pass through, and it sounds bland by
comparison.

-ChrisCoaster

"Mike" wrote in message
m... Hate to clue ya mate
but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.

Mike,
There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft
at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that
control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages.

The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that
many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors,
limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain
manually.

When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over
technique choose a different thread, mate.

--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

"Mike" wrote in message
m... Hate to clue ya mate
but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.

Mike,
There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft
at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that
control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages.

The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that
many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors,
limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain
manually.

When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over
technique choose a different thread, mate.

--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

(Mike) wrote in message om...
"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05...
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed

I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to
be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the
young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle
both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually.
The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?"

Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.
Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

Is riding the gain turning the gain knob? Or do some people use that
phrase instead of 'riding the faders'?

(Mike) wrote in message om...
"Chris!" wrote in message news:O%xjb.91334$k74.74977@lakeread05...
"Daniel" wrote in message
news:YFtjb.107629$pl3.75449@pd7tw3no...
Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed

I was doing a voice over the other day that required part of the script to
be soft and the ending to be loud. It took a while to set up because the
young engineer was looking for a setting on his compressor that would handle
both. I suggested that it would be faster to just ride the gain manually.
The engineer said, "Ride the gain? What does that mean?"

Hate to clue ya mate but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.
Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

Is riding the gain turning the gain knob? Or do some people use that
phrase instead of 'riding the faders'?

"rich rookie" wrote in message
...

I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they
wan't
constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music.


(not a recording pro, just a listener)

Maybe this is the real point here. Where do most people listen to music? In
their cars. With lots of background noise. You can NOT hear subtlety
there.We were listening to a Vivaldi "Four Seasons" disc in the truck one
day, and I kept having to turn it up and down. I had to explain to my
daughter that this stuff was written to be performed in a quiet hall, where
the only noise is the occasional cough. Vehicles at 70 mph are not the same.
So pop music is engineered both for those situations and because the
purchasers (mostly kids) don't know about music subtleties anyway.

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety
of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know
people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to
at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards
mumble every now and then?

"rich rookie" wrote in message
...

I'm guessing that most people aren't listening to music anymore, they
wan't
constant loudness background sound. Sort of like elevator music.


(not a recording pro, just a listener)

Maybe this is the real point here. Where do most people listen to music? In
their cars. With lots of background noise. You can NOT hear subtlety
there.We were listening to a Vivaldi "Four Seasons" disc in the truck one
day, and I kept having to turn it up and down. I had to explain to my
daughter that this stuff was written to be performed in a quiet hall, where
the only noise is the occasional cough. Vehicles at 70 mph are not the same.
So pop music is engineered both for those situations and because the
purchasers (mostly kids) don't know about music subtleties anyway.

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety
of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know
people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to
at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards
mumble every now and then?

A Question:
It sound to me like some boomboxes have compression build into them
to make them sound louder and not massively distort.. Anyone know if
this is true? Of course, even a speaker can compress..

A Rant:
I think that we take music with us everywhere now and it's forced to
conform to a lot more environments that it used to. I used to do my
first listening of an album in a quiet room, but nowaday's it's usually
in the car. These day's it's usually not worth listening in a quiet room
because there's nothing left to hear besides what's "in your face".
Might as well listen with the TV on, or the radio, or while surfing the
internet.. blabla****moanwhineblabla..

A Suggestion:
I wish consumer equipment manufacturers would get on the stick and put
user controlable compression into the equipment that could benifit from
it (car stereo's, walkmen, boomboxes, etc..). Let the source media contain
the entire dynamic range...

SRyan

A Question:
It sound to me like some boomboxes have compression build into them
to make them sound louder and not massively distort.. Anyone know if
this is true? Of course, even a speaker can compress..

A Rant:
I think that we take music with us everywhere now and it's forced to
conform to a lot more environments that it used to. I used to do my
first listening of an album in a quiet room, but nowaday's it's usually
in the car. These day's it's usually not worth listening in a quiet room
because there's nothing left to hear besides what's "in your face".
Might as well listen with the TV on, or the radio, or while surfing the
internet.. blabla****moanwhineblabla..

A Suggestion:
I wish consumer equipment manufacturers would get on the stick and put
user controlable compression into the equipment that could benifit from
it (car stereo's, walkmen, boomboxes, etc..). Let the source media contain
the entire dynamic range...

SRyan

In article , Jeff Deff
wrote:

What if people started an email campaign.

Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their
attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales
meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners.
When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told
"nobody is complaining but a few engineers."

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

In article , Jeff Deff
wrote:

What if people started an email campaign.

Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their
attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales
meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners.
When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told
"nobody is complaining but a few engineers."

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

In article , MikeK wrote:

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety
of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know
people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to
at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards
mumble every now and then?

This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed
out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter.

Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which
you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , MikeK wrote:

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide variety
of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not music) They know
people are listening to this on their morning drive, why aren't they try to
at least pump up the volume on that call-in interview? Why does Edwards
mumble every now and then?

This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels smoothed
out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the transmitter.

Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models, which
you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical stuff in the car.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth
a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I
noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Man, this tiring issue again. Here's where all the house painters pretend
to be Picasso. One question - Do you want it your way, or do you want to
get paid?

Professional engineers are not hired to create a masterpiece, they're hired
to make music that can sell. Very few of the stereos out there are of
reasonable audiophile quality to reap the benefits of a recording that makes
good use of the available dynamic range, and very few listening environments
are suitable for the job either.

So when you next assume the position of actual music consumers, in your car,
walking the street wearing a headphones, sitting at home chatting with
friends, think about the subtle details of a dynamic recording that are
completely inaudible over the background, and what proportion of the
population actually turns off their TV and sits alone to absorb an album to
its fullest. Now think of how many of us would actually be working in audio
if only those people bought music.

Obviously there are recordings that go too far, and I'm not saying "the more
compression the better", but the balance point between nice dynamics and
marketability leans more towards overcompression than we'd like. Big f-ing
deal. Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? I thought so.

And now that players with buffered 192kHz DAC's are available for $60, and
recordable media costs less than a quarter in quantity, I have no trouble
saying "the hell with analog". Vinyl offered better tone, but CD's offer
marketability and cost-effectiveness far beyond what LP's ever could.
Again, do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid.

Is it me or does most of the stuff that comes out today seem
overcompressed
to the point of being ridiculous ? It seems to be getting worse and worse.
Ok, I can see how they'd want to do this for artists that can't sing worth
a
damn but there are singers that have a great voice, so why kill it with
overcompression ?!?!?! I was just listenning to Trouble by Pink and I
noted
the great pipes on that girl and wondered why the hell they compressed the
**** outta her voice! Are we supposed to listen to the blaring music or
the
voice or both ?? Damn .... First it's "the hell with analog" and now it's
"overcompression"! What is the world coming to ????

Man, this tiring issue again. Here's where all the house painters pretend
to be Picasso. One question - Do you want it your way, or do you want to
get paid?

Professional engineers are not hired to create a masterpiece, they're hired
to make music that can sell. Very few of the stereos out there are of
reasonable audiophile quality to reap the benefits of a recording that makes
good use of the available dynamic range, and very few listening environments
are suitable for the job either.

So when you next assume the position of actual music consumers, in your car,
walking the street wearing a headphones, sitting at home chatting with
friends, think about the subtle details of a dynamic recording that are
completely inaudible over the background, and what proportion of the
population actually turns off their TV and sits alone to absorb an album to
its fullest. Now think of how many of us would actually be working in audio
if only those people bought music.

Obviously there are recordings that go too far, and I'm not saying "the more
compression the better", but the balance point between nice dynamics and
marketability leans more towards overcompression than we'd like. Big f-ing
deal. Do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid? I thought so.

And now that players with buffered 192kHz DAC's are available for $60, and
recordable media costs less than a quarter in quantity, I have no trouble
saying "the hell with analog". Vinyl offered better tone, but CD's offer
marketability and cost-effectiveness far beyond what LP's ever could.
Again, do you want it your way, or do you want to get paid.

In article , Bob Olhsson
wrote:

In article , Jeff Deff
wrote:

What if people started an email campaign.

Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their
attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales
meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners.
When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told
"nobody is complaining but a few engineers."

But they won't accept the returns because the CD plays. They'll say you
can't return a CD just because you decided you didn't like the music,
and the message will never move uphill from the summer job clerk to
management and eventual record company people who give a damn. Maybe a
nasty letter campaign to the labels from the customers? At least then
they have a big physical bag of complaints and not just what they may
consider spam.

One might say the message would get through if it affected sales, but
that hasn't seemed to work. They blame all their problems on something
else. It couldn't be _their_ fault! The last Rush album I think was the
first ever not to go gold or platinum and it sounded like crap.
Musically it was OK, but the sound was complained about here, in some
articles, and on all the fan groups from what I understand. Word
spread, sales stalled. I wonder if anybody up the food chain got the
message or if they just blamed it on MP3 trading?

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

In article , Bob Olhsson
wrote:

In article , Jeff Deff
wrote:

What if people started an email campaign.

Returning defective CDs and demanding a refund is what gets their
attention. They are putting their need to get attention in sales
meetings ahead of your pleasure and even that of broadcast listeners.
When we try to bring up the subject, we're faced with being told
"nobody is complaining but a few engineers."

But they won't accept the returns because the CD plays. They'll say you
can't return a CD just because you decided you didn't like the music,
and the message will never move uphill from the summer job clerk to
management and eventual record company people who give a damn. Maybe a
nasty letter campaign to the labels from the customers? At least then
they have a big physical bag of complaints and not just what they may
consider spam.

One might say the message would get through if it affected sales, but
that hasn't seemed to work. They blame all their problems on something
else. It couldn't be _their_ fault! The last Rush album I think was the
first ever not to go gold or platinum and it sounded like crap.
Musically it was OK, but the sound was complained about here, in some
articles, and on all the fan groups from what I understand. Word
spread, sales stalled. I wonder if anybody up the food chain got the
message or if they just blamed it on MP3 trading?

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
promastering.com

It's easy to set up a petition on www.petitiononline.com

It's easy to set up a petition on www.petitiononline.com

"Chris!" wrote in message news:LKTjb.91487$k74.7111@lakeread05...
"Mike" wrote in message
m... Hate to clue ya mate
but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.

Mike,
There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft
at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that
control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages.

The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that
many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors,
limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain
manually.

When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over
technique choose a different thread, mate.

I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking
about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or
softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations
which riding a gain fader wouldn't control.

If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want
a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower
passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to
level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems
like what would work.
A combination of gain riding and compressor.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

"Chris!" wrote in message news:LKTjb.91487$k74.7111@lakeread05...
"Mike" wrote in message
m... Hate to clue ya mate
but if you are the voiceover person I think a lot
of the responsibilty for dynamics falls on you. Instead of using
copression in the digital domain you can draw curves or volume
envelopes, which is better than either of the other two options.

Mike,
There isn't a "voice over person" alive that can sound loud and sound soft
at the same volume level. This is why microphones go through devices that
control gain... to bring up soft passages and to lower loud passages.

The thread here was on the subject of overcompression and my point was that
many people in the business of recording rely too much on compressors,
limiters and plug-ins rather than just raising and lowering the gain
manually.

When you want to do the best two out of three falls regarding voice over
technique choose a different thread, mate.

I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking
about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or
softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations
which riding a gain fader wouldn't control.

If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want
a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower
passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to
level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems
like what would work.
A combination of gain riding and compressor.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

In article , MikeK
wrote:

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide
variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not
music) They know people are listening to this on their morning
drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that
call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then?

This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels
smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the
transmitter.

Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models,
which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical
stuff in the car.

One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time.

I guess it makes too much sense.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

In article , MikeK
wrote:

I listen to NPR in the mornings, and I really bitch about the wide
variety of sound levels they're offering. (we're talking NEWS, not
music) They know people are listening to this on their morning
drive, why aren't they try to at least pump up the volume on that
call-in interview? Why does Edwards mumble every now and then?

This is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you want the levels
smoothed out, you want to do it at the receiver, not at the
transmitter.

Blaupunkt and Alpine both have compressors built into some models,
which you can turn on and off. Great for listening to classical
stuff in the car.

One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time.

I guess it makes too much sense.

"Mike" wrote in message
om...
I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking
about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or
softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations
which riding a gain fader wouldn't control.

This might come under the heading of Microphone Technique. A good voice over
talent knows how to work a microphone: when to move in, when to move away,
when to move off-axis and how to slide back. Working in concert with a good
engineer who is following the copy and can anticipate volume changes, the
recording sounds a lot better than one that was recorded using a compressor
to do all of the work. A limiter in the path is good for unexpected and
momentary hot signals, but not to do the work of a skilled engineer.


If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want
a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower
passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to
level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems
like what would work.
A combination of gain riding and compressor.

Correct, but you want to do most of the processing AFTER recording the
talent. The voice has to work with the music and sound effects of a
productio--which stomping the crap out of it through a compressor may not
allow you to to control well. The talent can add a little projection when
they know where a loud sound effect goes in a production, and where to get
softer when the effects get more quiet. A good voice over is a team effort
of human beings with a little help from outboard equipment and plug-ins.

Now back to the subject of the thread: Overcompression in music today.
--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

"Mike" wrote in message
om...
I kind of realized after I posted that that we were sort of talking
about two different things. A lot of the perceived loudness or
softness of any signal has to do with the attack and tonal variations
which riding a gain fader wouldn't control.

This might come under the heading of Microphone Technique. A good voice over
talent knows how to work a microphone: when to move in, when to move away,
when to move off-axis and how to slide back. Working in concert with a good
engineer who is following the copy and can anticipate volume changes, the
recording sounds a lot better than one that was recorded using a compressor
to do all of the work. A limiter in the path is good for unexpected and
momentary hot signals, but not to do the work of a skilled engineer.


If the voice over is for a commercial radio spot or TV you still want
a fairly consistant amplitude don't you? So bringing up the lower
passages, while not hitting the compressor, but using a compressor to
level out the louder ones, so they don't go to over the top, seems
like what would work.
A combination of gain riding and compressor.

Correct, but you want to do most of the processing AFTER recording the
talent. The voice has to work with the music and sound effects of a
productio--which stomping the crap out of it through a compressor may not
allow you to to control well. The talent can add a little projection when
they know where a loud sound effect goes in a production, and where to get
softer when the effects get more quiet. A good voice over is a team effort
of human beings with a little help from outboard equipment and plug-ins.

Now back to the subject of the thread: Overcompression in music today.
--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

"Arny Krueger" wrote:

|One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time.

Amen!

Phil

"Arny Krueger" wrote:

|One wonders why this feature isn't global and hasn't been for a long time.

Amen!

Phil