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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php
Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
"Rick Ruskin" wrote...
Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. 2. One of the titles they mention is a "down-load only" release of mine. There are no physical copies of this product for sale to the public. This and others like it will have to be duplicated without any authorization in order to be swapped between members. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
"Rick Ruskin" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. But it is the act of copying that is a possible copyright infringment, not the act of selling the physical commercial disc. You could argue that this service makes it *easier* for people to copy and sell, and it would be hard to argue with that. But selling commercial pressings (whether new or used) has never been an infringement of copyrights because the right to possess a copy of the content is intrinsically part of possession of the physical disc. 2. One of the titles they mention is a "down-load only" release of mine. There are no physical copies of this product for sale to the public. This and others like it will have to be duplicated without any authorization in order to be swapped between members. You should indeed go after them for that. They are not selling original, physical, commercial copies. That is a very different situation than #1 above. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
.....
because the right to possess a copy of the content is intrinsically part of possession of the physical disc. Yes I like this part becasue .. I interpret this to mean, that if I bought a recording at the store 15 years ago and I still own it but it has become worn and damaged, since the ownership of that disc provides me the "right to possess a copy of the content" I can go ahead and legally download a new undamaged copy "of the content" from wherever... or alternativly the record company should sell me with a new copy "of the content" for a nominal fee that covers the cost of reproduction but not make me repay the licenseing fee... that does make sense to me... Mark |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Mark wrote:
I interpret this to mean, that if I bought a recording at the store 15 years ago and I still own it but it has become worn and damaged, since the ownership of that disc provides me the "right to possess a copy of the content" I can go ahead and legally download a new undamaged copy "of the content" from wherever... Sure you can. But the question is who has the right to legally provide you with the copy that you can download? Nobody but the copyright owner (or his representative). It would be a nice service for the record label to provide but I doubt if any ever will. While the ocpyright might have an unreasonably long life, the product - the phonograph record - is subject to wear, damage, and loss. Nobody guarantees against that except maybe (if they still do) Buck Knives. How much wear depends on how much you play it and what you play it on. I have 50 year old records that are still enjoyable and that I still have equipment to play them on. What's the matter with your records? or alternativly the record company should sell me with a new copy "of the content" for a nominal fee that covers the cost of reproduction but not make me repay the licenseing fee... So ask them. Make your case, send in your old record with a receipt to prove that you actually bought it and maybe the'll send you a new copy, or the CD version. But unless they're already in the download business, they probably won't give you a download. That's too easy for you to share with others who have never bought the original product. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
"Mark" wrote ...
.... because the right to possess a copy of the content is intrinsically part of possession of the physical disc. Yes I like this part becasue .. I interpret this to mean, that if I bought a recording at the store 15 years ago and I still own it but it has become worn and damaged, since the ownership of that disc provides me the "right to possess a copy of the content" I can go ahead and legally download a new undamaged copy "of the content" from wherever... And you correctly identify that as "your interperetation". While it might be legally/technically accurate, there has never been any expectation that any record company would ever provide that service, so you are just dreaming in text. Perhaps I should have said "the right to posses THAT copy of the content is instrinsically part of possession of the physical disc." or alternativly the record company should sell me with a new copy "of the content" for a nominal fee that covers the cost of reproduction but not make me repay the licenseing fee... Actually, a FEW vendors of DVDs (and software CDs) WILL swap new discs for old ones (for a nominal handling fee). But I've never seen any vendors of audio CDs offer that service. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
"Mark" wrote ...
or alternativly the record company should sell me with a new copy "of the content" for a nominal fee that covers the cost of reproduction but not make me repay the licenseing fee... The licensing fee (at least the statutory rate for compulsory mechanical license) is likely the smallest part of the cost of the disc. (Under 10 cents per song.) You would spend more than that getting to the shop (or the cost of shipping). Perhaps that is why your scheme is not implemented in practical terms. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. Yep.. They can effectively do that from Public Libraries too. Lets ban them. geoff |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:05:46 +1300, "geoff"
wrote: Rick Ruskin wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. Yep.. They can effectively do that from Public Libraries too. Lets ban them. geoff That's a provocative and dumb statement. There is a big difference between a public lending library and a business. This entity gets income from every trade they broker. Artists, composers, and labels get nothing as far as I can tell. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:31:28 -0800, Rick Ruskin
wrote: That's a provocative and dumb statement. There is a big difference between a public lending library and a business. This entity gets income from every trade they broker. Artists, composers, and labels get nothing as far as I can tell. You feel there should be no trade in second-hand CDs? And no-one should run a shop,or otherwise take a comission for facilitating such trade? |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:31:28 -0800, Rick Ruskin
wrote: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:05:46 +1300, "geoff" wrote: Rick Ruskin wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. Yep.. They can effectively do that from Public Libraries too. Lets ban them. geoff That's a provocative and dumb statement. There is a big difference between a public lending library and a business. This entity gets income from every trade they broker. I just looked, and indeed they DO charge 49 cents for each 'swap'. Paperbackswap doesn't charge anything for (standard) membership nor for swapping. I've never paid paperbackswap one penny. Artists, composers, and labels get nothing as far as I can tell. It's exact same deal when a pawn shop, thrift store or used CD store buys and sells CD's. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Nov 25, 5:05*pm, "geoff" wrote:
1. *Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. Yep.. They can effectively do that from Public Libraries too. *Lets ban them. geoff You can knock on your neighbor's door and borrow his whole collection and do it. Still doesn't make it legal. That's why you can still borrow CDs from the library. Unfortunately (and my wife has been a librarian for a decade, so I know), most of the good stuff gets stolen. So it has nothing to do with anything but the fact that there are a lot of people who feel life owes them something, and if it's take-able they'll take it. That's the long, medium and short of it. People who don't think there should be safeguards against people who take things for free, if they can, which is not free, are not people you can have have an intelligent conversation about the issue. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:41:51 -0800, Rick Ruskin
wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I've known about that since it started up. It's run by the same people who run http://www.paperbackswap.com which I signed up for about two years ago. and I've swapped a few books through the site. I remember when the CD site started up, but I didn't bother signing up for it. I even met the guys who run these sites (they're based in Atlanta), they had a booth at the 2007 Decatur Book Festival. I don't see anything about this that even remotely infringes on copyrights. How is it any different from any used record or CD shop? 1. Members can burn copies of CD's to keep and swap originals for more to copy 'n swap. As others said, what swap-a-cd does is just as legal as any library or used CD store. If members choose to violate copyright laws with CD's they swap through this site, well, I don't know what to say to that in relation to the site. 2. One of the titles they mention is a "down-load only" release of mine. There are no physical copies of this product for sale to the public. Now that's something you can do something about. I encourage you to contact the people at swapacd.com and tell them of this. They have every interest in running a legal-only business, and I have little doubt when you explain the situation they'll remove the entry for your download-only release really fast. I searched your name and saw that none of the titles with your name are actually available (all the buttons say "Post This CD" - "Eagles Greatest Hits Vol. 2" however has a button named "Order This CD" meaning someone has it listed as available for swapping). I presume SwapaCD got all these album entries from some database service, and so you may also have a problem with that service listing your download-only album as a CD, so you might also ask SwapaCD where they got their database entries. Since none of your titles are currently available, it may be the case that none of your titles have EVER been 'swapped' through this service. While this is "suspicious," I wouldn't say it's hard evidence that your music has been pirated and distributed through this service. This and others like it will have to be duplicated without any authorization in order to be swapped between members. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:18:06 -0500, Ben Bradley
wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:41:51 -0800, Rick Ruskin wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I've known about that since it started up. It's run by the same people who run http://www.paperbackswap.com which I signed up for about two years ago. and I've swapped a few books through the site. I remember when the CD site started up, but I didn't bother signing up for it. I even met the guys who run these sites (they're based in Atlanta), they had a booth at the 2007 Decatur Book Festival. It is a reasonable assumption that a reader of a book is not going to copy it before passing it on to another reader. There's just too much work involved. On the other hand, if only because it's so easy/cheap to do, it is just as reasonable to assume that a CD will be copied before being passed on. There is no way that SwapACD would not realize this. BTW - I have contacted them and gotten no response to date. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Rick Ruskin wrote:
It is a reasonable assumption that a reader of a book is not going to copy it before passing it on to another reader. There's just too much work involved. On the other hand, if only because it's so easy/cheap to do, it is just as reasonable to assume that a CD will be copied before being passed on. It was this realization that brought us SCMS along with our DAT recorders and some rather poor anti-copy technology on CDs and DVDs. It didn't work worth a hoot so I guess the industry was smart not to continue that approach. So I guess they'll just have to start sending the record police around with search warrants and hard drive erasers. Yes, there will be some innocent casualties. g -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:03:13 -0800, Rick Ruskin
wrote: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:18:06 -0500, Ben Bradley wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:41:51 -0800, Rick Ruskin wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:27:53 -0800, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Rick Ruskin" wrote... Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php I've known about that since it started up. It's run by the same people who run http://www.paperbackswap.com which I signed up for about two years ago. and I've swapped a few books through the site. I remember when the CD site started up, but I didn't bother signing up for it. I even met the guys who run these sites (they're based in Atlanta), they had a booth at the 2007 Decatur Book Festival. It is a reasonable assumption that a reader of a book is not going to copy it before passing it on to another reader. There's just too much work involved. On the other hand, if only because it's so easy/cheap to do, it is just as reasonable to assume that a CD will be copied before being passed on. There is no way that SwapACD would not realize this. So you're implying that SwapaCD is knowingly complicit in piracy? Wouldn't that also be true of used CD stores and such? BTW - I have contacted them and gotten no response to date. I just might sign up there and poke around, they've got message forums just like everyone else thesedays. Posting a Google usenet archive link to this thread may get some attention. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://liondogmusic.com http://www.myspace.com/rickruskin |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Rick Ruskin wrote: Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php Lord Above. Can you not even give the *tiniest* precis as to what the subject matter is ? How do I know this site doesn't contain a new virus that isn't yet in my daily updated database for example ? Graham |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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A New Twist On Copyright Infringement?
Eeyore wrote:
Rick Ruskin wrote: Check this out: http://www.swapacd.com/index.php Lord Above. Can you not even give the *tiniest* precis as to what the subject matter is ? How do I know this site doesn't contain a new virus that isn't yet in my daily updated database for example ? Graham What joy to drive this old Mac and not even think about a daily updated viral update! And if you knew Rick Ruskin's work you wouldn't be worrying about that malarkey. -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
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