I have a question that I think I know the answer to.

A buddy of mine and I have recorded a jazzy arrangement of a Beatles song.
In a few months I plan to professionally produce an album with 12 original
songs on it. I will not be charging money for the album -- i'll be giving
it away for free.

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on the
album? Since the album will be free, do the laws change as far as paying
royalties to the owner of the song? Do I still need permission to use it if
I will not be profiting off it? If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit? If I do try to obtain
permission, who do I send a request to? ASCAP?

I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for distributing
free music...


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

JUST UPDATED (5-19-04) with FIVE new songs!
Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

I don't think you have to get permission, you just have to pay someone a
fee. Not sure on the details there. I'm pretty certain once the song has
been recorded and released the first time, it's fair game after that as long
as the payment is made and the album you put it on has the appropriate
credits.

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

I don't think you have to get permission, you just have to pay someone a
fee. Not sure on the details there. I'm pretty certain once the song has
been recorded and released the first time, it's fair game after that as long
as the payment is made and the album you put it on has the appropriate
credits.

http://www.1-record-deal-music-business.com./
Some good info here

http://www.vmgworldwide.com/fullsite.htm
Vandor is down today, but they have some really good stuff on this subject..

http://www.discmakers.com There is a booklet on this page that tells you what you need to give
them before they will manufacturer your CD when you are not the publisher.

I think it is $0..08 per song per disk to the publisher to distribute a copyrighted song.
I think it is $0..08 per song per disk to the writer to distribute a copyrighted song.

You would need to pay this in advance to get your bar-coded copies made.

If you make the CD and give them away yourself there is a very low probability you will be
noticed.

Having that song on there will complicate your chances of doing a whole CD copyright
http://www.copyright.gov/


Phil Abbate



"Doc" wrote in message
news :
: "£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
: news :
: I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
: thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
: distributing
: free music...
:
: I don't think you have to get permission, you just have to pay someone a
: fee. Not sure on the details there. I'm pretty certain once the song has
: been recorded and released the first time, it's fair game after that as long
: as the payment is made and the album you put it on has the appropriate
: credits.
:
:

http://www.1-record-deal-music-business.com./
Some good info here

http://www.vmgworldwide.com/fullsite.htm
Vandor is down today, but they have some really good stuff on this subject..

http://www.discmakers.com There is a booklet on this page that tells you what you need to give
them before they will manufacturer your CD when you are not the publisher.

I think it is $0..08 per song per disk to the publisher to distribute a copyrighted song.
I think it is $0..08 per song per disk to the writer to distribute a copyrighted song.

You would need to pay this in advance to get your bar-coded copies made.

If you make the CD and give them away yourself there is a very low probability you will be
noticed.

Having that song on there will complicate your chances of doing a whole CD copyright
http://www.copyright.gov/


Phil Abbate



"Doc" wrote in message
news :
: "£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
: news :
: I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
: thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
: distributing
: free music...
:
: I don't think you have to get permission, you just have to pay someone a
: fee. Not sure on the details there. I'm pretty certain once the song has
: been recorded and released the first time, it's fair game after that as long
: as the payment is made and the album you put it on has the appropriate
: credits.
:
:

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

You can probably license the tune on http://www.songfile.com/ .

If you don't put a coin in the meter, you may or may not get a ticket. Your
call.

--
dt king
www.thoughtdog.com
Mellow New Age Music
Download Free

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

You can probably license the tune on http://www.songfile.com/ .

If you don't put a coin in the meter, you may or may not get a ticket. Your
call.

--
dt king
www.thoughtdog.com
Mellow New Age Music
Download Free

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on the
album?

You would need to get a compulsory license - meaning you would pay full rate
(around 8.3 cents).

If you choose to give it away for free or not does not matter.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Yes, but unless people involved in the song know it's there........




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on the
album?

You would need to get a compulsory license - meaning you would pay full rate
(around 8.3 cents).

If you choose to give it away for free or not does not matter.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Yes, but unless people involved in the song know it's there........




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I have a question that I think I know the answer to.

A buddy of mine and I have recorded a jazzy arrangement of a Beatles song.
In a few months I plan to professionally produce an album with 12 original
songs on it. I will not be charging money for the album -- i'll be
giving
it away for free.

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on
the
album?

You can do the whole thing online in five minutes. Go to the website of the
Harry Fox Agency (www.nmpa.org/hfa.html) and search on the title of the song
you want. Have your credit card ready; enter the information they ask for.
It's $79.80 for 1000 copies of the album, less if you're pressing fewer.

Since the album will be free, do the laws change as far as paying
royalties to the owner of the song?

No; distribution is distribution.

Do I still need permission to use it if
I will not be profiting off it?

You automatically get permission when you pay the royalty as outlined above.
Once a song has been published for the first time, anyone can cover it who
pays the royalty, without requiring permission. Only unpublished material
requires the author's permission, unless there are substantial changes in
the original work (for example, new lyrics). A jazzy arrangement doesn't
count, so you're home free.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Not if you pay the royalty. Internet publishing is separate from publishing
on an album; that's one of the questions you answer on the Harry Fox
website. I don't remember whether you have separate transactions for
pressing on a CD and distributing over the net, but they'll tell you. As I
recall, it's a pretty straightforward process.

If I do try to obtain
permission, who do I send a request to? ASCAP?

See above.

I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

See above again; you will get permission, because it's not optional. There's
no separate provision for music distributed for free.

And now, a small suggestion: think again about distributing the music for
free. My former wife once said something quite profound: in our society,
people do not respect that for which they do not pay. Free discs are fine
for radio stations and as demos for people you want to hire you, but if you
sell the disc to people instead of giving it away, people will take it more
seriously. Really. It's a crazy psychology and a crazy world we live in, but
that's how it is.

Oh, and once you start giving your services away for free, it's harder to
persuade people later on to pay for them. And you do have to eat.

Peace,
Paul


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

JUST UPDATED (5-19-04) with FIVE new songs!
Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I have a question that I think I know the answer to.

A buddy of mine and I have recorded a jazzy arrangement of a Beatles song.
In a few months I plan to professionally produce an album with 12 original
songs on it. I will not be charging money for the album -- i'll be
giving
it away for free.

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on
the
album?

You can do the whole thing online in five minutes. Go to the website of the
Harry Fox Agency (www.nmpa.org/hfa.html) and search on the title of the song
you want. Have your credit card ready; enter the information they ask for.
It's $79.80 for 1000 copies of the album, less if you're pressing fewer.

Since the album will be free, do the laws change as far as paying
royalties to the owner of the song?

No; distribution is distribution.

Do I still need permission to use it if
I will not be profiting off it?

You automatically get permission when you pay the royalty as outlined above.
Once a song has been published for the first time, anyone can cover it who
pays the royalty, without requiring permission. Only unpublished material
requires the author's permission, unless there are substantial changes in
the original work (for example, new lyrics). A jazzy arrangement doesn't
count, so you're home free.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Not if you pay the royalty. Internet publishing is separate from publishing
on an album; that's one of the questions you answer on the Harry Fox
website. I don't remember whether you have separate transactions for
pressing on a CD and distributing over the net, but they'll tell you. As I
recall, it's a pretty straightforward process.

If I do try to obtain
permission, who do I send a request to? ASCAP?

See above.

I understand I probably won't get permission to use the song, but I just
thought I'd check here first to see if there is a provision for
distributing
free music...

See above again; you will get permission, because it's not optional. There's
no separate provision for music distributed for free.

And now, a small suggestion: think again about distributing the music for
free. My former wife once said something quite profound: in our society,
people do not respect that for which they do not pay. Free discs are fine
for radio stations and as demos for people you want to hire you, but if you
sell the disc to people instead of giving it away, people will take it more
seriously. Really. It's a crazy psychology and a crazy world we live in, but
that's how it is.

Oh, and once you start giving your services away for free, it's harder to
persuade people later on to pay for them. And you do have to eat.

Peace,
Paul


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

JUST UPDATED (5-19-04) with FIVE new songs!
Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.

Paul Stamler wrote:

And now, a small suggestion: think again about distributing the music for
free. My former wife once said something quite profound: in our society,
people do not respect that for which they do not pay. Free discs are fine
for radio stations and as demos for people you want to hire you, but if you
sell the disc to people instead of giving it away, people will take it more
seriously. Really. It's a crazy psychology and a crazy world we live in, but
that's how it is.

Oh, and once you start giving your services away for free, it's harder to
persuade people later on to pay for them. And you do have to eat.

A muso friend and client of mine is one of those people who is always
ready to help folks and society in general. For years around here when
music was wanted Joe would provide it, even if there was no money to be
had. A couple of years ago he began revaluing his time, and said to me,
"I've finally figured out that as long as I'm willing to play for free
people are happy to pay me that".

--
ha

Paul Stamler wrote:

And now, a small suggestion: think again about distributing the music for
free. My former wife once said something quite profound: in our society,
people do not respect that for which they do not pay. Free discs are fine
for radio stations and as demos for people you want to hire you, but if you
sell the disc to people instead of giving it away, people will take it more
seriously. Really. It's a crazy psychology and a crazy world we live in, but
that's how it is.

Oh, and once you start giving your services away for free, it's harder to
persuade people later on to pay for them. And you do have to eat.

A muso friend and client of mine is one of those people who is always
ready to help folks and society in general. For years around here when
music was wanted Joe would provide it, even if there was no money to be
had. A couple of years ago he began revaluing his time, and said to me,
"I've finally figured out that as long as I'm willing to play for free
people are happy to pay me that".

--
ha

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

EggHd wrote:

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on the
album?

You would need to get a compulsory license - meaning you would pay full rate
(around 8.3 cents).

If you choose to give it away for free or not does not matter.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Yes, but unless people involved in the song know it's there........




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

EggHd wrote:

My question is, what would be involved in including the Beatles song on the
album?

You would need to get a compulsory license - meaning you would pay full rate
(around 8.3 cents).

If you choose to give it away for free or not does not matter.

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Yes, but unless people involved in the song know it's there........




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd wrote:
with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover






---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

EggHd wrote:
with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover






---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

"dt king" wrote in message news:P2nvc.6893$sI.3469@attbi_s52...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will

"dt king" wrote in message news:P2nvc.6893$sI.3469@attbi_s52...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:14:05 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote:


"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I have a question that I think I know the answer to.

A buddy of mine and I have recorded a jazzy arrangement of a Beatles song.

...

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Not if you pay the royalty. Internet publishing is separate from publishing
on an album; that's one of the questions you answer on the Harry Fox
website. I don't remember whether you have separate transactions for
pressing on a CD and distributing over the net, but they'll tell you.

I'd be reluctant to distribute a cover (especially Beatles) over
the net. Is it similar to CD's in that you pay a certain amount per
download (or you pay a certain amount for 1000 downloads)?
I can imagine the link getting onto a list of "Beatlez Songz" from
someone thinking it's an original Beatles recording (based solely on
title, not listening or thinking about where the link is) and it
getting more downloads overnight than I'd want to pay royalties for.

As I
recall, it's a pretty straightforward process.

Peace,
Paul


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

JUST UPDATED (5-19-04) with FIVE new songs!
Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.





-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:14:05 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote:


"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
news
I have a question that I think I know the answer to.

A buddy of mine and I have recorded a jazzy arrangement of a Beatles song.

...

If I host the song for download on my
website, will I be threatened with a lawsuit?

Not if you pay the royalty. Internet publishing is separate from publishing
on an album; that's one of the questions you answer on the Harry Fox
website. I don't remember whether you have separate transactions for
pressing on a CD and distributing over the net, but they'll tell you.

I'd be reluctant to distribute a cover (especially Beatles) over
the net. Is it similar to CD's in that you pay a certain amount per
download (or you pay a certain amount for 1000 downloads)?
I can imagine the link getting onto a list of "Beatlez Songz" from
someone thinking it's an original Beatles recording (based solely on
title, not listening or thinking about where the link is) and it
getting more downloads overnight than I'd want to pay royalties for.

As I
recall, it's a pretty straightforward process.

Peace,
Paul


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

JUST UPDATED (5-19-04) with FIVE new songs!
Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.





-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

wrote:

"dt king" wrote:

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will,

If you are distributing other people's music, free, demos, whatever, you pay for
that privilage.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

wrote:

"dt king" wrote:

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will,

If you are distributing other people's music, free, demos, whatever, you pay for
that privilage.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

Danny Taddei wrote in message news:4Wzvc.13484$lL1.2584@fed1read03...
EggHd wrote:
with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover


You never heard a muzak version of a Beatle's song? There must be hundreds.

Danny Taddei wrote in message news:4Wzvc.13484$lL1.2584@fed1read03...
EggHd wrote:
with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover


You never heard a muzak version of a Beatle's song? There must be hundreds.

B.F. Goodrich wrote:

Danny Taddei wrote in message news:4Wzvc.13484$lL1.2584@fed1read03...

EggHd wrote:

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover



You never heard a muzak version of a Beatle's song? There must be hundreds.
Sure... and like I said! :-)

B.F. Goodrich wrote:

Danny Taddei wrote in message news:4Wzvc.13484$lL1.2584@fed1read03...

EggHd wrote:

with today's climate and a possible statutory damage bill of $125,000
per violation I would think that 8.5 cents a song would be a no brainer!

I agree and would never want to mess with a Beatles song.


Yeah, I was thinking that too. it's one thing to play it live but it is
almost sacrilegious to record a Beatles cover



You never heard a muzak version of a Beatle's song? There must be hundreds.
Sure... and like I said! :-)

If you can get permission to use the song sans fees, than you can do so.
Has nothing to do with the fair use clause of the copyright laws. Or simply
go to the Harry Fox Agency's website and use their song fee calculator for
the number of copies you plan to duplicate.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

wrote in message
om...
"dt king" wrote in message
news:P2nvc.6893$sI.3469@attbi_s52...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you
did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required
under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the
copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will

If you can get permission to use the song sans fees, than you can do so.
Has nothing to do with the fair use clause of the copyright laws. Or simply
go to the Harry Fox Agency's website and use their song fee calculator for
the number of copies you plan to duplicate.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

wrote in message
om...
"dt king" wrote in message
news:P2nvc.6893$sI.3469@attbi_s52...

According to the Harry Fox Agency...

"If you are manufacturing and distributing copies of a song which you
did
not write, and you have not already reached an agreement with the song's
publisher, you need to obtain a mechanical license. This is required
under
U.S. Copyright Law, regardless of whether or not you are selling the
copies
that you made."

Okay, any legal beagles that are around (or those with sufficient
savvy) please help with this: what about an artist that is doing ONLY
a demo that is not for public consumption, but only is to be
distributed to industry types; labels, management, etc.? Doesn't this
fall under 'fair use' and therefore require no fee?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Will