[gareth magennis]

Hi,

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.


What devices work well at reasonable cost?
(I am in the UK, which is no longer part of Europe, unfortunately)


Cheers,


Gareth.

[Scott Dorsey]

Gareth Magennis wrote:

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.

You get two choices, the cylindrical foam ones and the bullet-shaped foam
ones. I think the bullet-shaped ones are better but some people disagree
so I keep a bag of each. Both of them have 20dB or so reduction and aren't
really very flat, but are flat enough.

I get both kinds from Grainger, a big industrial supplier, and they are a
few pennies each. I think the EAR brand is what they last had.
You could try earplug-store.co.uk, but whatever you do, don't forget to
bill the customer for them! Never pass up an opportunity to bill the
customer!

You can get much higher quality earplugs, but they won't be pennies each
and you won't want to give them out. But if you're mixing at high levels
you might consider getting some custom-molded Etymotic ones. I would not
be able to survive steel bands without them.

I don't know about smaller ones for children. That might be a good plan
too.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

On 30/03/2017 11:57 a.m., Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gareth Magennis wrote:
so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.
You get two choices, the cylindrical foam ones and the bullet-shaped foam
ones. I think the bullet-shaped ones are better but some people disagree
so I keep a bag of each. Both of them have 20dB or so reduction and aren't
really very flat, but are flat enough.

I get both kinds from Grainger, a big industrial supplier, and they are a
few pennies each. I think the EAR brand is what they last had.
You could try earplug-store.co.uk, but whatever you do, don't forget to
bill the customer for them! Never pass up an opportunity to bill the
customer!

You can get much higher quality earplugs, but they won't be pennies each
and you won't want to give them out. But if you're mixing at high levels
you might consider getting some custom-molded Etymotic ones. I would not
be able to survive steel bands without them.

I don't know about smaller ones for children. That might be a good plan
too.
--scott


The Etymotic type custom-moulded ones are great (with a range of value
attenuation 'capsules' available), but a pain to get in-and-out
frequently, even with KY.

I often use (for myself) the EAR ones with the the silicone flanges that
come with a little black container' - much more covenient for frequent
in-and-out.

But for giving out, the simple foam ones for sure. But if people had a
clue they'd bring their own to such an event.

However NEVER use a screwed up bus ticket even in an emergency. I
needled to go to the doc to get one removed after a distressingly loud
pub gig I went to unprepared once ;-0

geoff

[[email protected]]

gareth magennis wrote: "Hi,

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.


What devices work well at reasonable cost?
(I am in the UK, which is no longer part of Europe, unfortunately)


Cheers,


Gareth. "


Ear plugs do not address the root cause of
the problem: The show is TOO LOUD.


As the engineer, you should explain to your
clients(the promoters, the organization hosting
the event, the band itself, etc.) in a tactful way
that the sound is too loud for some of the paying
customers. If, THEY, in the first place, cannot
grasp the concept of 'reasonably loud' for a given
event, then it is up to you to take appropriate
measures. The clients may not have asked it to
be at a certain volume; they simply don't get
what is reasonable and what is not. If they do
ask you to really 'crank it up' ahead of time, or
keep asking you to make louder during show, then
it is your duty to explain the consequences: that
customers are complaining and are starting to
demand ear plugs or other protection.


The need to wear ear plugs at an event where
the volume can be controlled indicates something
is wrong. This is not Nascar, or an indoor monster
truck event or airshow, where the engines cannot
simply be turned down. It is a concert or musical
where the sound is controllable.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:36:41 PM UTC-4, gareth magennis wrote:
Hi,

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.


What devices work well at reasonable cost?
(I am in the UK, which is no longer part of Europe, unfortunately)


Cheers,


Gareth.

I bought a cheap pair, maybe $10 (USD), Wal-Mart, JVC, "Gummy". Sounds good to my ears.

Jack

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:36:41 PM UTC-4, gareth magennis wrote:
Hi,

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.

Interesting

and I agree, I tend to wear earplugs because the mids and highs are too loud, sometimes painfully loud, but the bass is fine.

So the plugs work well because they attenuate the mids and highs and leave the bass alone.

I would not mind if the mix was adjusted to keep the bass very loud but cut down the mids and highs. The promoters might accept that, I'm pretty sure the audience would. Then w could listen without the ear plugs.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:54:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 11:20:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 6:36:41 PM UTC-4, gareth magennis wrote:
Hi,

so, some customers are asking for earplugs at a live event. (sometimes
including children)
As sound engineer, I feel it is my duty to do what I can and provide them
when requested.

Interesting

and I agree, I tend to wear earplugs because the mids and highs are too loud, sometimes painfully loud, but the bass is fine.

So the plugs work well because they attenuate the mids and highs and leave the bass alone.

I would not mind if the mix was adjusted to keep the bass very loud but cut down the mids and highs. The promoters might accept that, I'm pretty sure the audience would. Then w could listen without the ear plugs.


But what do you do when the years move on and some correction is
needed? Here's a pair of self-administered audiograms, from 2001 and
three days ago. I've actually won a bit of bass, but the top end is
vanishing fast.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/audiogram.png

These were taken with a nice pair of Stax phones, so they should be
pretty reliable. On the recent one you can see a masking peak at 4kHz
caused by tinnitus.

d

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[geoff]

On 31/03/2017 7:50 AM, Don Pearce wrote:


But what do you do when the years move on and some correction is
needed? Here's a pair of self-administered audiograms, from 2001 and
three days ago. I've actually won a bit of bass, but the top end is
vanishing fast.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/audiogram.png

These were taken with a nice pair of Stax phones, so they should be
pretty reliable. On the recent one you can see a masking peak at 4kHz
caused by tinnitus.


I take it that it is upside-down to the usual sense ?


geoff

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 08:10:03 +1300, geoff
wrote:

On 31/03/2017 7:50 AM, Don Pearce wrote:


But what do you do when the years move on and some correction is
needed? Here's a pair of self-administered audiograms, from 2001 and
three days ago. I've actually won a bit of bass, but the top end is
vanishing fast.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/audiogram.png

These were taken with a nice pair of Stax phones, so they should be
pretty reliable. On the recent one you can see a masking peak at 4kHz
caused by tinnitus.


I take it that it is upside-down to the usual sense ?


No, that's a normal threshold curve. That is how loud sounds have to
be for me to just barely detect them.

d

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[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:
But what do you do when the years move on and some correction is
needed? Here's a pair of self-administered audiograms, from 2001 and
three days ago. I've actually won a bit of bass, but the top end is
vanishing fast.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/audiogram.png

What you do is you spend time listening to live sounds, so you know what
live sounds should sound like _through your ears_ and you can mix things
to sound like that.

These were taken with a nice pair of Stax phones, so they should be
pretty reliable. On the recent one you can see a masking peak at 4kHz
caused by tinnitus.

I wouldn't trust anything above 4kc made with any standard headphones,
because tiny changes in headphone placement can make enormous differences
in the measurement. If the measurements were made with swept sines you'd
be able to see the comb filtering effects from the headphones, but since
they are made only with a few discrete tones, where those tones fall on
the comb makes a huge difference in accuracy.

The audiologists will use headphones designed for careful positioning
which gives you accuracy up to 8kc. Beyond that... you just have to use
your ears...
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On 30 Mar 2017 17:01:32 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
But what do you do when the years move on and some correction is
needed? Here's a pair of self-administered audiograms, from 2001 and
three days ago. I've actually won a bit of bass, but the top end is
vanishing fast.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/audiogram.png

What you do is you spend time listening to live sounds, so you know what
live sounds should sound like _through your ears_ and you can mix things
to sound like that.

These were taken with a nice pair of Stax phones, so they should be
pretty reliable. On the recent one you can see a masking peak at 4kHz
caused by tinnitus.

I wouldn't trust anything above 4kc made with any standard headphones,
because tiny changes in headphone placement can make enormous differences
in the measurement. If the measurements were made with swept sines you'd
be able to see the comb filtering effects from the headphones, but since
they are made only with a few discrete tones, where those tones fall on
the comb makes a huge difference in accuracy.

The audiologists will use headphones designed for careful positioning
which gives you accuracy up to 8kc. Beyond that... you just have to use
your ears...
--scott

Tada! The measurements were not actually made with discrete tones,
but narrowband noise - at 10kHz it was about 100Hz wide. I was aware
of the problem with tones, and I've done my best to counter it. Here,
the spectrum of the 5k tone

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/5ktone.png

So no, maybe not audiology-accurate, but I totally believe the loss
above 5kHz.

d

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[geoff]

On 31/03/2017 4:20 AM, wrote:


I bought a cheap pair, maybe $10 (USD), Wal-Mart, JVC, "Gummy".
Sounds good to my ears.


So ineffective at 3000 cycles then. In the band which is most painful....

Yes, relatively good ones can be not expensive.

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 3:14:52 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 31/03/2017 4:20 AM, wrote:


I bought a cheap pair, maybe $10 (USD), Wal-Mart, JVC, "Gummy".
Sounds good to my ears.


So ineffective at 3000 cycles then. In the band which is most painful....

Yes, relatively good ones can be not expensive.

geoff

My plan is to induce tinnitus in every person on earth, then I will excel!

Jack