Hi,

I was wondering: best way to set up a dbx 160a to a bass combo. I'm
confused a bit, got advice to just put it in the effects loop, but
isn't that after the combo's preamp in the chain? Don't you want to
compress the bass signal somehow Before you equalize it with the
equalizers on the combo's pre?
Is there even another way to hook it the compressor up though? You
can't just plug the bass right into the compressor first.
Do you need some kind of DI that changes the bass signal to line level
and then go to the compressor and then go to the active input of your
combo amp?

My combo amp is SWR workingman 2x10c. It has an effect loop and 5 band
parametric EQ on the preamp part. The rack mount compressor fits right
in nicely in a slot that comes with this amp designed to hold one rack
mount unit.

So what is the best signal path for this setup??? compressor before the
combo or compressor in the effects loop. And if the right answer is
before the combo, then how would you set that up??

Thanks very much for any help on this.

James

wrote:
I was wondering: best way to set up a dbx 160a to a bass combo. I'm
confused a bit, got advice to just put it in the effects loop, but
isn't that after the combo's preamp in the chain? Don't you want to
compress the bass signal somehow Before you equalize it with the
equalizers on the combo's pre?

Maybe. But hopefully you aren't doing a lot of radical EQ anyway.
And it _has_ to be after the preamp.

Is there even another way to hook it the compressor up though? You
can't just plug the bass right into the compressor first.
Do you need some kind of DI that changes the bass signal to line level
and then go to the compressor and then go to the active input of your
combo amp?

That "kind of DI" would be, by definition, a preamp. It would have a high-Z
input and a lot of gain.

So what is the best signal path for this setup??? compressor before the
combo or compressor in the effects loop. And if the right answer is
before the combo, then how would you set that up??

My personal suggestion would be to get the compressor as far away from
the bass amp as possible. It's really a crutch, for performers who can't
keep their dynamics under control. And using it all the time is going to
make it harder for you to learn to control your dynamics well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

My personal suggestion would be to get the compressor as far away from
the bass amp as possible. It's really a crutch, for performers who can't
keep their dynamics under control.

As a bass player for over two decades, I'd agree completely with this
statement. As usual, the rest of Scott's post was spot on as well.

Corey

wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering: best way to set up a dbx 160a to a bass combo. I'm
confused a bit, got advice to just put it in the effects loop, but
isn't that after the combo's preamp in the chain? Don't you want to
compress the bass signal somehow Before you equalize it with the
equalizers on the combo's pre?
Is there even another way to hook it the compressor up though? You
can't just plug the bass right into the compressor first.
Do you need some kind of DI that changes the bass signal to line level
and then go to the compressor and then go to the active input of your
combo amp?


It depends on which verison of bass compression you want. If you
want to emulate strapping a compressor across the channel @
mixdown, then you want the F/X loop. If you want to emulate a
compressor in series during tracking, then you want it between
the amp input and the bass.

Really, though - compressors on bass for live have
never made sense to me. They only make sense in a studio
when you want it as an effect, or if you have a player
with inconsistent dynamics. Compressors on bass ( assuming
playing "bass" bass, not as a lead instrument ) tend
to mud things up a great deal.

My combo amp is SWR workingman 2x10c. It has an effect loop and 5 band
parametric EQ on the preamp part. The rack mount compressor fits right
in nicely in a slot that comes with this amp designed to hold one rack
mount unit.

So what is the best signal path for this setup??? compressor before the
combo or compressor in the effects loop. And if the right answer is
before the combo, then how would you set that up??


The only problem with before-the-combo is a possible
impedance problem in the interconnect from the dbx
to the combo. Shouldn't be a problem, but might be.

Which is better depends on why you're using a compressor
at all. But my guess is that the F/X loop is better
generally, because that controls the dynamics
as they are altered by the EQ.

But at least try one set without anything at all,
concentrating on using your right hand to do what
you want the compressor to do.

Thanks very much for any help on this.

James

--
Les Cargill

I was wondering: best way to set up a dbx 160a to a bass combo

Give the DBX to the FOH engineer and he can insert it on the console

Les Cargill wrote:
Really, though - compressors on bass for live have
never made sense to me. They only make sense in a studio
when you want it as an effect, or if you have a player
with inconsistent dynamics. Compressors on bass ( assuming
playing "bass" bass, not as a lead instrument ) tend
to mud things up a great deal.

My combo amp is SWR workingman 2x10c. It has an effect loop and 5 band
parametric EQ on the preamp part. The rack mount compressor fits right
in nicely in a slot that comes with this amp designed to hold one rack
mount unit.

So what is the best signal path for this setup??? compressor before the
combo or compressor in the effects loop. And if the right answer is
before the combo, then how would you set that up??


The only problem with before-the-combo is a possible
impedance problem in the interconnect from the dbx
to the combo. Shouldn't be a problem, but might be.

Which is better depends on why you're using a compressor
at all. But my guess is that the F/X loop is better
generally, because that controls the dynamics
as they are altered by the EQ.

But at least try one set without anything at all,
concentrating on using your right hand to do what
you want the compressor to do.


Well, as a bassist I'd disagree. There are things a compressor will
give you live that your fingers won't. That part has nothing to do
with dynamics. It has to do with the personality your compressor will
give you for a certain type of gig. I haven't lost my knack for
having my digits be the dynamics, but I still sometimes like a good
compressor up there. Sometimes for punch, sometimes to put my sound in
a pocket.

I've dragged my 160 along and given it the output of a Tech21 Bass
Driver and it was great. I've used the Ashdown pedal, which gives
control over high and low frequency compression and thought it was very
good, but not 160-like. The Aphex Punch Factory optical pedal was a
bit closer in feel to dragging along the DBX, and more convenient.


Soundmen might say compressors don't make sense live, but bass players
don't. I also don't consider these any more of an "effect" live than
having a compressor on the vocalist (though sometimes they are). The
sound guy can take my signal before it hits any of these if they want,
but if they told me "why don't you just play with dynamics instead" I'd
know I was in for a long night. : )


Best.

R

wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

Really, though - compressors on bass for live have
never made sense to me. They only make sense in a studio
when you want it as an effect, or if you have a player
with inconsistent dynamics. Compressors on bass ( assuming
playing "bass" bass, not as a lead instrument ) tend
to mud things up a great deal.


My combo amp is SWR workingman 2x10c. It has an effect loop and 5 band
parametric EQ on the preamp part. The rack mount compressor fits right
in nicely in a slot that comes with this amp designed to hold one rack
mount unit.

So what is the best signal path for this setup??? compressor before the
combo or compressor in the effects loop. And if the right answer is
before the combo, then how would you set that up??


The only problem with before-the-combo is a possible
impedance problem in the interconnect from the dbx
to the combo. Shouldn't be a problem, but might be.

Which is better depends on why you're using a compressor
at all. But my guess is that the F/X loop is better
generally, because that controls the dynamics
as they are altered by the EQ.

But at least try one set without anything at all,
concentrating on using your right hand to do what
you want the compressor to do.



Well, as a bassist I'd disagree. There are things a compressor will
give you live that your fingers won't.

Ermmmmm..... I am very skeptical. Short of yer 30dB gain reduction
compression, the Right Hand can do just about anything else.

See, this is where the medium fails us, because you could
probably show me very quickly what you are talking about,
and I'd go "oh, *that*. Okay".

That part has nothing to do
with dynamics. It has to do with the personality your compressor will
give you for a certain type of gig. I haven't lost my knack for
having my digits be the dynamics, but I still sometimes like a good
compressor up there. Sometimes for punch, sometimes to put my sound in
a pocket.


That's what makes the world go 'round. I'm more a
bass player than anything else, in terms of time over
target.

My comment is meant to convey only this - that for
electric live music, the Big Problem is generally
mud. Compressors on bass can tend to add to mud.
Will, generally. Do, on most rigs I've seen live.
Nothing like having a bucket fulla subs come up
on the bass amp when the release curve starts

Doubtless that's *ab*use, and not use, but ...

I am quite sure there are at least a billion
exceptions to the rule. And doubtless, I probably
don't *really* know how to use one on a live
bass rig.

But if I hadda have one for the gig, I'd probably
get 'em to call you instead....

I've dragged my 160 along and given it the output of a Tech21 Bass
Driver and it was great. I've used the Ashdown pedal, which gives
control over high and low frequency compression and thought it was very
good, but not 160-like. The Aphex Punch Factory optical pedal was a
bit closer in feel to dragging along the DBX, and more convenient.


Soundmen might say compressors don't make sense live, but bass players
don't.

To be sure - I just don't know when they'd be useful,
myself. Seems like some styles of music might make
them make more sense than others. But to be
perfectly honest - I don't know what those styles
are, much. And, FWIW, my resume inclues ( but is not
limited to): Metal, country, Rawk, rock, bl00z, blues,
pit orchestra, funk, old school R&B, marching (ugh)
band and string band stuff. No ska, very little reggae,
not a lot of other more recent styles.

I also don't consider these any more of an "effect"

Well, if it's signal processing, and it's not
there to meet some requirement like squooshing
levels into a narrow range, then it's an effect.
That's what I meant - tone shaping. No intention
of that being derogatory - just descriptive.

live than
having a compressor on the vocalist (though sometimes they are). The
sound guy can take my signal before it hits any of these if they want,
but if they told me "why don't you just play with dynamics instead" I'd
know I was in for a long night. : )


Very nice rebuttal.

I thought I'd stuck *at least* one "YMMV" in there Some of
us old fahts might learn something, now and again.

But I'm still skeptical


Best.

R



--
Les Cargill

Les Cargill wrote:

I thought I'd stuck *at least* one "YMMV" in there Some of
us old fahts might learn something, now and again.

But I'm still skeptical


Hey Les, I'm an old faht too! And my mileage sometimes varies nightly
through the same gear!! Even from set to set! (Not quite at the from
song to song variance yet, tho.)

And I did marching band all through High School, so we're not THAT far
apart : ) (Holy ****, 35 years ago. Now THAT was sometimes ****ing
BRUTAL! : ) )

Rb