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#41
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Keith G" wrote in message news Me too, but what puzzles me is that instead of *demanding* that people concede 'CD is better' for any particular reason (??) none of the digital bigots ever seem to want to know why anyone might *prefer* to play vinyl? (Outside this ng, in the real world, plenty of people do it seems....??) Almost within touching distance of where I'm sitting, there are two CD racks full of the sort stuff I like to (and do) play. It is though they do not exist - I *never* think to play them! I just looked, there is even a 'boxed set' called 'Smooth Classics FM, do not disturb' and it hasn't been - it's still sealed in a cellophane wrapper!! http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/cellophane.jpg It must have been there some years now and one of the *few* things I like on Carsick FM is the 'Smooth Classics at Seven' prog..!!?? In fact, I suspect over half of them have never been played even once since they were bought - why is that...?? (I think it's a 'natural selection' based on a genuine preference that has bugger-all to do with technical differences!) I grew up in the 80's, so I'm of the Walkman generation. The first thing I did to any album (record or CD) was to transfer it to cassette tape so I could take it with me in my Walkman clone and in my car. It's awfully hard to play an LP in a car. So portability became an issue early on with me even if it did result in some loss of quality. Besides, there is so much outside noise in a car or when "walking" that it didn't matter anyway. Today, it's a hell of a lot easier to buy a CD, rip it and send it to my NetMD or convert it into an MP3 for portability than it is to record an LP on the PC and then send that to my NetMD or MP3 player. Beyond that, while snap, crackle, and pop might be o.k. as a cereal, I really don't want to hear it in my music. It's also *far* more annoying to me than analog audio tape hiss, which I don't really like in my music either. Getting away from tape hiss is why I use MD and MP3 for portable music. Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#42
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Jeff Findley" wrote in
message I grew up in the 80's, so I'm of the Walkman generation. The first thing I did to any album (record or CD) was to transfer it to cassette tape so I could take it with me in my Walkman clone and in my car. It's awfully hard to play an LP in a car. So portability became an issue early on with me even if it did result in some loss of quality. Besides, there is so much outside noise in a car or when "walking" that it didn't matter anyway. Today, it's a hell of a lot easier to buy a CD, rip it and send it to my NetMD or convert it into an MP3 for portability than it is to record an LP on the PC and then send that to my NetMD or MP3 player. Beyond that, while snap, crackle, and pop might be o.k. as a cereal, I really don't want to hear it in my music. If snap crackel and pop were all that the LP format did to music it would be bad enough, but it isn't. I don't know how people can mention High Fidelity and LP in the same breath, given how good our mainstream media formats can be. It's also *far* more annoying to me than analog audio tape hiss, which I don't really like in my music either. Well Dolby and metal tape did a lot for the hiss thing with cassette tape, but there are a host of other audible artifacts. In the days of cassette walkmen, I used a Sony WM3 and metal tape. Getting away from tape hiss is why I use MD and MP3 for portable music. Either done right can sonically outperform cassette tape and LP, quite easily. Jeff |
#43
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:38:17 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote: Me too, but what puzzles me is that instead of *demanding* that people concede 'CD is better' for any particular reason (??) none of the digital bigots ever seem to want to know why anyone might *prefer* to play vinyl? There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Those are valid reasons to prefer vinyl over CD. When it comes to sound quality, both CD and LP are capable of reproducing high fidelity sound. Whether or not they actually do that depends on the mastering and manufacturing. The CD format is definitely more convenient for storage and handling than LPs. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#44
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:38:17 -0000, "Keith G" wrote: Me too, but what puzzles me is that instead of *demanding* that people concede 'CD is better' for any particular reason (??) none of the digital bigots ever seem to want to know why anyone might *prefer* to play vinyl? There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Those are valid reasons to prefer vinyl over CD. When it comes to sound quality, both CD and LP are capable of reproducing high fidelity sound. I seriously question whether the low level of performance of the LP format can be called "High Fidelity" in 2006. Whether or not they actually do that depends on the mastering and manufacturing. No, the LP format has serious basic flaws that have never been resolved. The CD format is definitely more convenient for storage and handling than LPs. The CD format has more than an order of magnitude less noise and distortion the LP format. The LP format has audible noise and distortion. The CD format does not. |
#45
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Here in Ohio" wrote in message ... On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:38:17 -0000, "Keith G" wrote: Me too, but what puzzles me is that instead of *demanding* that people concede 'CD is better' for any particular reason (??) none of the digital bigots ever seem to want to know why anyone might *prefer* to play vinyl? (Outside this ng, in the real world, plenty of people do it seems....??) No, in the real world very few people prefer playing vinyl. Here we go again.... The number of people around the world that are into hifi is a small percentage of the music-buying public, So what? One percent of a million quid/bucks is still a tidy sum.... and vinyl mavens are a tiny fraction of that. So you're part of the fringe of a fringe. :-) No-one's talking percentages/fractions (or both) - the word I used is 'plenty'. If you want percentages, every single local 'audio' person I know uses vinyl, so that's 100% and most of my 'audio' visitors do - let's say 80% (four fifths)....OK? If you do not think there are *plenty* of people using vinyl, go bid on some of the vinyl goodies on eBay and see how hard you can get smashed on, say, a nice MC cart or tonearm in perfect condition..... What I keep pointing out is that there are well-known and readily measurable problems with vinyl, problems that do not exist with CD. If you prefer vinyl, it's because you actually prefer added distortion. Nope, that won't wash either - for me the LP is a longer-established music carrier than the CD and it is my 'norm'. If you say (I don't necessarily agree) that audible distortion has been removed with a CD then I would ask what else has been removed with it? I would suggest a palpable sense of 'realism' for starters - for me, CD is sterile or even *fake* by comparison... That's perfectly fine. Prefer whatever you want. However, don't then try to claim that vinyl is superior. Yes, we've heard that a few times before in ukra (where I'm posting) - first off, I don't need your permission for my preferences and I certainly don't need your instructions as to what or what not to claim. IMO, vinyl *is* superior, or I wouldn't use it - I don't care who disagrees with that or what they prefer and might claim themselves... stands back and awaits the usual torrent of irrelevant technobabble... |
#46
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:38:17 -0000, "Keith G" wrote: Me too, but what puzzles me is that instead of *demanding* that people concede 'CD is better' for any particular reason (??) none of the digital bigots ever seem to want to know why anyone might *prefer* to play vinyl? There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Those are valid reasons to prefer vinyl over CD. Certainly some of the valid reasons - other valid reasons are actually preferring to listen to them and handling them.... When it comes to sound quality, both CD and LP are capable of reproducing high fidelity sound. Whether or not they actually do that depends on the mastering and manufacturing. Yep, I suppose.... The CD format is definitely more convenient for storage and handling than LPs. Nope, try carrying a dozen of each (in turn) for any distance (assuming jewel cases).... |
#47
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Stephen Worth writes:
There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Quite -- that's why I'm into vinyl. It's hard to find interesting second-hand CDs for much less than four pounds here in the UK, which puts me off buying music "on spec"; on the other hand, I can go into a charity shop and pick up four to eight LPs for the same amount, and I've discovered a lot of interesting music that way. I don't expect the quality to be anywhere near that available on CD, although I'm occasionally pleasantly surprised by a well-pressed record in really good condition... There's also the historical interest angle: until 1984 or so, LP was *the* mainstream high-fidelity medium. I can understand how CD can produce good-quality audio -- that's just the application of sufficient electronic magic -- but being able to get reasonable sound quality by dragging a diamond across a sheet of plastic still strikes me as a pretty cool trick. (Speaking as a vinyl enthusiast on a student budget, though, I do really wish someone made an affordable record-cleaning machine!) -- Adam Sampson http://offog.org/ |
#48
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Adam Sampson" wrote in message ... Stephen Worth writes: There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Quite -- that's why I'm into vinyl. It's hard to find interesting second-hand CDs for much less than four pounds here in the UK, which puts me off buying music "on spec"; on the other hand, I can go into a charity shop and pick up four to eight LPs for the same amount, and I've discovered a lot of interesting music that way. I don't expect the quality to be anywhere near that available on CD, although I'm occasionally pleasantly surprised by a well-pressed record in really good condition... There's also the historical interest angle: until 1984 or so, LP was *the* mainstream high-fidelity medium. I can understand how CD can produce good-quality audio -- that's just the application of sufficient electronic magic -- but being able to get reasonable sound quality by dragging a diamond across a sheet of plastic still strikes me as a pretty cool trick. (Speaking as a vinyl enthusiast on a student budget, though, I do really wish someone made an affordable record-cleaning machine!) Cool trick? Is it *ever*....!!! Adam, the record (fabulous *mint* 1972 Supraphon pressing) this track came from cost me 50p, IIRC... http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Der%20Engel.mp3 It was playing when I read your post - I transferred it to my 'computer setup' to grab a couple of tracks for you. (Doesn't do them any favours from a *static* POV, believe me, so there's enough **** to keep the digital bigots happy....!! ;-) If you like it and want it on CD, you can get it for anything from 7.99 to 17.99 from Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_...assical&page=1 Words here (Der Engel): http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/fss/je...ras/wesen2.htm Not your sort of thing? Play it over until it is..... |
#49
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Here in Ohio" wrote in message ... On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:03:01 -0000, "Keith G" wrote: If you do not think there are *plenty* of people using vinyl, go bid on some of the vinyl goodies on eBay and see how hard you can get smashed on, say, a nice MC cart or tonearm in perfect condition..... So? That doesn't prove there are "plenty" of people using vinyl. And again I will point out that vinyl is the darling of a teeny, tiny percentage of music buyers. What I keep pointing out is that there are well-known and readily measurable problems with vinyl, problems that do not exist with CD. If you prefer vinyl, it's because you actually prefer added distortion. Nope, that won't wash either - for me the LP is a longer-established music carrier than the CD and it is my 'norm'. If you say (I don't necessarily agree) that audible distortion has been removed with a CD then I would ask what else has been removed with it? I would suggest a palpable sense of 'realism' for starters - for me, CD is sterile or even *fake* by comparison... The distortion isn't "removed" with CD, it is never there in the first place. Your "norm" is distorted. That "palpable sense of realism" is just added distortion. ?? Do you ever eat that cheese - you know, the blue mouldy one you pay extra for.... |
#50
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Adam Sampson" wrote in message ... Stephen Worth writes: There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. Quite -- that's why I'm into vinyl. It's hard to find interesting second-hand CDs for much less than four pounds here in the UK, which puts me off buying music "on spec"; on the other hand, I can go into a charity shop and pick up four to eight LPs for the same amount, and I've discovered a lot of interesting music that way. I don't expect the quality to be anywhere near that available on CD, although I'm occasionally pleasantly surprised by a well-pressed record in really good condition... The lack of really cheap used CD's shows how sought after they are compared to LP's. Here in the US, for a used CD I typically pay 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of new CD's (which seem to run about $15 to $20 US). If I get lucky, I'll find a used CD I like in the "bargain bin" for maybe $1 to $3 US, which is a great deal. In the same shops, LP's run about $0.50 to $3 US, and I do pick up one from time to time. There's also the historical interest angle: until 1984 or so, LP was *the* mainstream high-fidelity medium. I can understand how CD can produce good-quality audio -- that's just the application of sufficient electronic magic -- but being able to get reasonable sound quality by dragging a diamond across a sheet of plastic still strikes me as a pretty cool trick. I started collecting CD's back in about 1985, years before I bought my first CD player. I'd borrow a friend's stereo and copy the CD to cassette tape for listening since this was the Walkman era. Finally in about 1991/1992 I won a CD player at a Christmas/New Year party thrown by my wife's boss. By that time I had a collection of maybe 12 to 20 CD's and two to three dozen LP's and 45's. (Speaking as a vinyl enthusiast on a student budget, though, I do really wish someone made an affordable record-cleaning machine!) Clean the LP really good, record it on a PC as a WAV, then burn to a CD-R and play the CD instead of the LP. You'll save wear and tear on the LP's and eliminate the constant cleaning. Plus you can then easily transfer the audio to an MP3 player or a NetMD via USB. I've done this for several dozen LP's, mostly ones I got from my grandparents after their turntable finally stopped working and they didn't want to repair it anymore. I gave them back copies of the LP's on CD-R along with a little bookshelf CD player with a remote control. Just about any PC will do, as long as you've got a decent sound card in it. All the software I use for this is freeware/shareware (Audacity, CD Wave, and DePopper). Here in the US, I typically pay about $0.10 US for a blank CD-R, which is still far cheaper than even a bargain LP. If you don't do any noise reduction, you even preserve the "authentic LP sound". ;-) Jeff -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919) |
#51
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In rec.audio.tech Glenn Richards wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: Back in the 1980s when people used to buy the LP and the CD of the same album, play them both and compare the results, they weren't really comparing the two media. Instead, they were comparing the (generally quite separate) mastering decisions--EQ, limiting, etc.--behind the two products, plus the particular characteristics of their LP and CD playback equipment. So what that posting is basically saying is that CD is capable of far better quality sound than vinyl, but due to sloppy mastering (loudness wars anyone?) vinyl generally sounds better? Because it hasn't been compressed to within an inch of its life? Yes, for popular music since about 1993 or so, that *could* be the case, *if* you find the dynamic range compression used in modern pop CD mastering (which some find to be 'euphonic', ie good-sounding) more objectionable than that the 'euphonic' distortions of LP. Of course even today, not all pop CDs are so compressed, nor are all of them compressed to the same degree. But all LP systems will display 'euphonic' distortion. Compared to pop music, digital compression is more rarely applied to jazz CDs, and more rarely still to classical CDs. It is unlikely you will find classical LPs that match the dynamic range of the corresponding CD. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#52
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Stephen Worth" wrote in message No, the LP format has serious basic flaws that have never been resolved. The CD format is definitely more convenient for storage and handling than LPs. The CD format has more than an order of magnitude less noise and distortion the LP format. The LP format has audible noise and distortion. The CD format does not. The LP has 2 significant advantages over the CD: 1. The cover art is much more persuasive 2. You can play a neat game where you cover over the label and try to guess what piece is recorded by looking at the velocity pattern under a bare lightbulb. It only works with the classical canon, but with a little practice you can get quite good at it. As I recall, the easiest one to guess was the Pines of Rome by Respighi. Norm Strong |
#53
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Jeff Findley" writes:
(Speaking as a vinyl enthusiast on a student budget, though, I do really wish someone made an affordable record-cleaning machine!) Clean the LP really good, record it on a PC as a WAV, then burn to a CD-R and play the CD instead of the LP. Yep, that's what I do for anything I'm likely to play regularly -- albeit without the "burn to a CD" stage unless I'm doing it for someone else, since all my digital audio comes straight off the PC these days. The problem is with the first step; I often get second-hand records that are extremely dusty, dirty or otherwise grotty, and there's only so much that can be done with a dry brush. I'd like some non-messy way of wet-cleaning and vacuuming records like the Moth or Nitty-Gritty machines do. I'm currently keeping an eye on Freecycle for a suitable vacuum cleaner to convert into a DIY RCM along the same lines: http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html -- Adam Sampson http://offog.org/ |
#54
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
Here in Ohio wrote: Nope, that won't wash either - for me the LP is a longer-established music carrier than the CD and it is my 'norm'. If you say (I don't necessarily agree) that audible distortion has been removed with a CD then I would ask what else has been removed with it? I would suggest a palpable sense of 'realism' for starters - for me, CD is sterile or even *fake* by comparison... The distortion isn't "removed" with CD, it is never there in the first place. Your "norm" is distorted. That "palpable sense of realism" is just added distortion. You're wasting your time arguing with Mr G. He considers vinyl through home made single driver horns with (at least) the top and bottom octaves missing - driven by an SET amp with goodness knows how much distortion - gives perfect results in his tiny but excessively lively listening room. Of course at his age, his hearing is probably the true limiting factor. Those who disagree - ie most - have no place on this, his own personal newsgroup. ;-) -- *When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#55
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... There's a very good reason why people collect LP records. They are very inexpensive, usually about two bucks apiece, S/H, ... as are many S/H CD's. Except a S/H CD has some chance of still being playable! The funny thing is that new vinyl is actually more expensive than CD! Now add in the cost of a decent turntable/cartridge and replacement sylii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (not to mention a record cleaning machine and the requisite fluids) Where exactly is the saving????? and there's a wide variety of music on LP that isn't available on CD. And vice versa. Those are valid reasons to prefer vinyl over CD. No, those are valid reasons to play whatever you want to listen to at the time. When it comes to sound quality, both CD and LP are capable of reproducing high fidelity sound. The CD format is definitely more convenient for storage and handling than LPs. No doubt about that. The only benefit of vinyl IMO is the cover art :-) MrT. |
#56
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... But all LP systems will display 'euphonic' distortion. Not so. I find much of the distortion on vinyl records anything but "euphonic"! MrT. |
#57
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Here in Ohio wrote: Nope, that won't wash either - for me the LP is a longer-established music carrier than the CD and it is my 'norm'. If you say (I don't necessarily agree) that audible distortion has been removed with a CD then I would ask what else has been removed with it? I would suggest a palpable sense of 'realism' for starters - for me, CD is sterile or even *fake* by comparison... The distortion isn't "removed" with CD, it is never there in the first place. Your "norm" is distorted. That "palpable sense of realism" is just added distortion. You're wasting your time arguing with Mr G. He considers vinyl through home made single driver horns with (at least) the top and bottom octaves missing - driven by an SET amp with goodness knows how much distortion - gives perfect results in his tiny but excessively lively listening room. Of course at his age, his hearing is probably the true limiting factor. Those who disagree - ie most - have no place on this, his own personal newsgroup. ;-) Oh dear...... Do stop your snivelling, Plowie - you're like a snot-nosed little kid whining that the big boys won't let you have a kick of the ball..... Dry yer eyes and have a look at this (I fished you out of my ****ter specially): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...5705&rd=1&rd=1 Tell me if you think it would be any good for 'out and about' recording....?? I'm looking at things like the Edirol R-09 http://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/edirolr-09.htm ...but not sure if I want to punt 300 quid on summat that might be a bit disappointing (or might only be a flash in the pan)....?? |
#58
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In rec.audio.tech Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... But all LP systems will display 'euphonic' distortion. Not so. I find much of the distortion on vinyl records anything but "euphonic"! Oh, for the ability to make 'quote fingers' online. ___ -S "As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy, metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason |
#59
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , Keith G
wrote: You're wasting your time arguing with Mr G. He considers vinyl through home made single driver horns with (at least) the top and bottom octaves missing - driven by an SET amp with goodness knows how much distortion - gives perfect results in his tiny but excessively lively listening room. Of course at his age, his hearing is probably the true limiting factor. Those who disagree - ie most - have no place on this, his own personal newsgroup. ;-) Oh dear...... Do stop your snivelling, Plowie - you're like a snot-nosed little kid whining that the big boys won't let you have a kick of the ball..... Thank you for taking the bait and proving your enormous ego insists you reply to anything mentioning yourself - even after making a song and dance about who's in your killfile... -- *A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#60
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: You're wasting your time arguing with Mr G. He considers vinyl through home made single driver horns with (at least) the top and bottom octaves missing - driven by an SET amp with goodness knows how much distortion - gives perfect results in his tiny but excessively lively listening room. Of course at his age, his hearing is probably the true limiting factor. Those who disagree - ie most - have no place on this, his own personal newsgroup. ;-) Oh dear...... Do stop your snivelling, Plowie - you're like a snot-nosed little kid whining that the big boys won't let you have a kick of the ball..... Thank you for taking the bait and proving your enormous ego insists you reply to anything mentioning yourself - even after making a song and dance about who's in your killfile... Another wasted opportunity, Plowie - did you miss this bit: "Dry yer eyes and have a look at this (I fished you out of my ****ter specially):" ?? I dunno, you ain't ever going to amount to anything in this life if you can't get that rotten attitude of yours sorted.... Tsk, tsk, tsk.... shakes head slowly.... ;-) |
#61
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , Mr.T
MrT@home wrote: S/H, ... as are many S/H CD's. Except a S/H CD has some chance of still being playable! Shipping and Handling? As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. In fact, if you are willing to pick up, you can get whole collections for free. I have a storage facility full of thousands of great free records to prove it. Now add in the cost of a decent turntable/cartridge and replacement sylii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's possible to put together a good sounding vinyl playback setup used for under $250. That isn't a great deal of money. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#62
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
Stephen Worth wrote: As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. That's cool. Don't think I ever bought a mint one new. They were all flawed in some way. -- *Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#63
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Stephen Worth wrote: As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. That's cool. Don't think I ever bought a mint one new. They were all flawed in some way. I *know* I never bought a mint one, new. I used to sell them. Even on the highly-touted audiophile brands like Sheffield, I never had/heard one without at least a couple of flaws per side.... jak |
#64
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"jakdedert" wrote in message .. . Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Stephen Worth wrote: As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. What is the formal definition of "mint condition LP". If its one that is completely unused and never opened since pressed that allows considerable latitude. Back in the days when vinyl was all we had, I needless to say bought 100s of LPs that were allegedly new. I think that many of them were actually factory-fresh, simply because of the volumes in which they were sold in those days. If someone was opening them and adding dirt, they had a full-time job. ;-) It wasn't all that unusual for a LP to come out of the factory-sealed liner with some kind of foriegn material or plastic fragments associated with it. That's cool. Don't think I ever bought a mint one new. They were all flawed in some way. Agreed. I never had a LP that didn't have a tic or pop by the end of playing the first side. Discwasher, Zerostat, Dust Bug I had them all and used them religiously. I washed records in mild soapy water, sprayed them with propriatory cleaning elixors, and made my own mixtures of USP alcohol, distilled water and later on added photo wetting agent. Never heard a side play without a tic or a pop or quite a few of them. I *know* I never bought a mint one, new. I used to sell them. Even on the highly-touted audiophile brands like Sheffield, I never had/heard one without at least a couple of flaws per side.... That was my experience. |
#65
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Arny Krueger wrote:
"jakdedert" wrote in message .. . Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Stephen Worth wrote: As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. What is the formal definition of "mint condition LP". If its one that is completely unused and never opened since pressed that allows considerable latitude. Back in the days when vinyl was all we had, I needless to say bought 100s of LPs that were allegedly new. I think that many of them were actually factory-fresh, simply because of the volumes in which they were sold in those days. If someone was opening them and adding dirt, they had a full-time job. ;-) It wasn't all that unusual for a LP to come out of the factory-sealed liner with some kind of foriegn material or plastic fragments associated with it. That's cool. Don't think I ever bought a mint one new. They were all flawed in some way. Agreed. I never had a LP that didn't have a tic or pop by the end of playing the first side. Discwasher, Zerostat, Dust Bug I had them all and used them religiously. I washed records in mild soapy water, sprayed them with propriatory cleaning elixors, and made my own mixtures of USP alcohol, distilled water and later on added photo wetting agent. Never heard a side play without a tic or a pop or quite a few of them. I *know* I never bought a mint one, new. I used to sell them. Even on the highly-touted audiophile brands like Sheffield, I never had/heard one without at least a couple of flaws per side.... That was my experience. Amen... When CD's came out, I thought for some reason that they'd soon be cheaper--or at least as cheap--as LP's. Silly me. I actively boycotted the format, (indeed almost all retail, recorded music) up until the early 90's in protest. To this day, I rarely buy a new disk. Thankfully, the industry learned their lesson when DVD became the format of choice for video. IME, they don't cost any more than VHS did...often less, with comparable technical advancement of Lp over CD. I guess I taught 'em a thing or two.... jak |
#66
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... Shipping and Handling? As for playability, it is EASY to find LPs in mint condition for a dollar a disk here in Los Angeles. In fact, if you are willing to pick up, you can get whole collections for free. I have a storage facility full of thousands of great free records to prove it. Now add in the cost of a decent turntable/cartridge and replacement stylii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's possible to put together a good sounding vinyl playback setup used for under $250. That isn't a great deal of money. Possibly good enough for those $1 LP's I guess, but I wouldn't play *mine* on a crap box. Hell a new stylus costs me that much! Not so much of a problem now that I only use a TT for transcribing to CD though. Unfortunately the cost of a record cleaning machine still makes it uneconomical for most people to play records, even if they are free. There is a reason why S/H vinyl is cheap after all, nobody else wants it, and with good reason! MrT. |
#67
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , Mr.T
MrT@home wrote: Possibly good enough for those $1 LP's I guess, but I wouldn't play *mine* on a crap box. Hell a new stylus costs me that much! You can get higher end turntables from the 70s used for much less than the cost of low end new turntables. You just have to look. Dual, Thorens, Riga... they're all out there and they're far from being crap boxes. As for flawless LPs... you guys are WAY too anal retentive. You should spend more time listening to music, not a tiny click here and there. There's a lot of great music on LPs (as well as 78s) that will never be released on CD. Music is what counts. LPs are perfectly capable of reproducing music very well. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#68
Posted to alt.audio.equipment,rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
jakdedert wrote: When CD's came out, I thought for some reason that they'd soon be cheaper--or at least as cheap--as LP's. Silly me. I actively boycotted the format, (indeed almost all retail, recorded music) up until the early 90's in protest. To this day, I rarely buy a new disk. Thankfully, the industry learned their lesson when DVD became the format of choice for video. IME, they don't cost any more than VHS did...often less, with comparable technical advancement of Lp over CD. I guess I taught 'em a thing or two.... That's the way to do it. It's a fact of life that everything is priced to what the market can bear with no relation to manufacturing costs. -- *Half the people in the world are below average. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#69
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
Stephen Worth wrote: As for flawless LPs... you guys are WAY too anal retentive. You should spend more time listening to music, not a tiny click here and there. And the distortion. Varying quality from one end to the other. Wow and flutter. There's a lot of great music on LPs (as well as 78s) that will never be released on CD. Some, admittedly. Whether it's great or not is a matter of opinion. It can't be that 'great' if it's not been released on CD. Music is what counts. Then discuss that on a music newsgroup. There are hundreds covering all sorts. This one is about audio - ie the reproduction of sounds. LPs are perfectly capable of reproducing music very well. They were capable when there was nothing better. Now there is they're relegated to second best. -- *Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#70
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... You can get higher end turntables from the 70s used for much less than the cost of low end new turntables. You just have to look. Dual, Thorens, Riga... they're all out there and they're far from being crap boxes. Yes, and the S/H prices of those are far more than a new CD player. Unfortunately a stylus from the seventies will rarely be usable either, and a new cartridge of reasonable quality costs more than a CD player and wears out quicker. As for flawless LPs... you guys are WAY too anal retentive. You should spend more time listening to music, not a tiny click here and there. I was so glad when we got an alternative where that was not an inherent fault that had to be put up with though. There's a lot of great music on LPs (as well as 78s) that will never be released on CD. I know, that's the only reason why I still use a TT. The reverse is more true these days however. Music is what counts. LPs are perfectly capable of reproducing music very well. Yes, when that was all we had, I bought many. MrT. |
#71
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , News
wrote: It can't be that 'great' if it's not been released on CD. 78s and LPs were produced for over 8 decades. The 20th century represents a vast ocean of music- and one of the richest periods of musicmaking of all time. Simply cataloguing the discography of the 20th century is a Herculean task that continues to this day. To assume that if something hasn't been released on CD, it must be inferior is profoundly ignorant. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#72
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , Mr.T
MrT@home wrote: Unfortunately a stylus from the seventies will rarely be usable either, and a new cartridge of reasonable quality costs more than a CD player and wears out quicker. A good cartridge can be bought for $50. I included that in the estimate I quoted- $250 for a good vinyl playback system. ($100 turntable, $50 shipping, $50 phono preamp, $50 cartridge) You can get a CD player cheaper, but buy a couple of dozen CDs along with it and you will have spent a lot more than a turntable setup and a comparable amount of used records. Classical music in particular is a bargain on LP. Beautiful sounding pressings with great performances routinely sell for a dollar or two a disk. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#73
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:47:00 -0800, Stephen Worth
wrote: 78s and LPs were produced for over 8 decades. The 20th century represents a vast ocean of music- and one of the richest periods of musicmaking of all time. Simply cataloguing the discography of the 20th century is a Herculean task that continues to this day. To assume that if something hasn't been released on CD, it must be inferior is profoundly ignorant. Yeah. Once we learned how to press that "record" button, or drop that cutting stylus, we forgot how to stop :-) A LOAD of stuff got recorded. How much of it is worth keeping is another matter. |
#74
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article , Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote: Yeah. Once we learned how to press that "record" button, or drop that cutting stylus, we forgot how to stop :-) A LOAD of stuff got recorded. How much of it is worth keeping is another matter. I'm pretty familiar with just about the entire span of recording history. My collection of records, CDs and digital files goes back 100 years, and includes music of all types from every time period since. I can tell you that the proportion of crap to good stuff in roughly the first half of the 20th century was much less than it has been since. There were more varieties of quality music, a more vital musical interchange of ideas, and much better musicians. There are plenty of crappy records, but the idea that all of the good music from the 20th century has already been released on CD is completely absurd. See ya Steve -- Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/ Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/ The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/ Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/ |
#75
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... In article , Mr.T MrT@home wrote: Possibly good enough for those $1 LP's I guess, but I wouldn't play *mine* on a crap box. Hell a new stylus costs me that much! You can get higher end turntables from the 70s used for much less than the cost of low end new turntables. You just have to look. Dual, Thorens, Rega... they're all out there and they're far from being crap boxes. Trouble is, $250 isn't what it costs to put together a credible vinyl setup, following the instructions above. First - a rega turntable. Looking at the current relevant closed auctions on ebay I get the following numbers for a usable as sold Rega TT + arm: $238 $549 $340 (composite of sep auctions for arm + TT, no arm) $197 $768 $610 $475 $340 $448 $475 $341 We can see that just the turntable + arm alone is very likely to blow the $250 stated budget. Eyeball average is about $350 Most people don't have good preamps of sufficient grade, so I'll throw in a $75 allowance for a good used preamp. Some of the turntables above included a cartrdge, some didn't, I'll throw in a $50 allowance for half a good cartrdige. Bottom line, it will take about $500 on the average to have a credible vinyl playback system based on a low-mid grade Rega turntable. Strikes a chord because that's what I have and the average prices I quote are close to what my setup cost me. As for flawless LPs... you guys are WAY too anal retentive. Sue us for being used to CD quality audio. You should spend more time listening to music, not a tiny click here and there. There's a lot of great music on LPs (as well as 78s) that will never be released on CD. 78s won't play on the $500 Rega setup. Music is what counts. LPs are perfectly capable of reproducing music very well. It seems like used and bargain label CDs are the more economical way to go. |
#76
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
Stephen Worth wrote: It can't be that 'great' if it's not been released on CD. 78s and LPs were produced for over 8 decades. The 20th century represents a vast ocean of music- and one of the richest periods of musicmaking of all time. Simply cataloguing the discography of the 20th century is a Herculean task that continues to this day. To assume that if something hasn't been released on CD, it must be inferior is profoundly ignorant. Is it? What is great to you may be rubbish to others. If there was a commercial opening for this 'great' music it would have been released on CD, in the main. -- *Funny, I don't remember being absent minded. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#77
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Stephen Worth" wrote in message ... In article , Mr.T MrT@home wrote: Possibly good enough for those $1 LP's I guess, but I wouldn't play *mine* on a crap box. Hell a new stylus costs me that much! You can get higher end turntables from the 70s used for much less than the cost of low end new turntables. You just have to look. Dual, Thorens, Rega... they're all out there and they're far from being crap boxes. Trouble is, $250 isn't what it costs to put together a credible vinyl setup, following the instructions above. snip bits about 250USD I recently bought a pretty decent TT/cart for 35UKP plus p&p: http://patchoulian.googlepages.com/jvcjl-a40 Rob |
#78
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Walt wrote:
Or to put a finer point on it, imagine the third generation cassette copy of "Abba's greatest hits" that spent the summer on the back dashboard of my car. Transfer it to CD, and you'll find that the CD sounds just like the third-generation sun-damaged Sweedish crooning on the tape. What conclusions would you draw from that fact? That "So Long" was basically a re-hash of Waterloo, and that ABBA didn't get really really good until 1981's "The Visitors"? ;-) -- Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735 Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/ IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation |
#79
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Stephen Worth wrote: It can't be that 'great' if it's not been released on CD. 78s and LPs were produced for over 8 decades. The 20th century represents a vast ocean of music- and one of the richest periods of musicmaking of all time. Simply cataloguing the discography of the 20th century is a Herculean task that continues to this day. To assume that if something hasn't been released on CD, it must be inferior is profoundly ignorant. Is it? What is great to you may be rubbish to others. If there was a commercial opening for this 'great' music it would have been released on CD, in the main. A friend recently gave me a bunch of LPs to put on to CD - women singers and musicians of the 1920-40s (Victoria Spivey, Trixie Smith, Hociel Thomas and many more). Alas there doesn't seem to be a commercial opening for this type of music - so if you're reliant on CD you'd never hear it. Unless you bump into a nice chap like me :-) |
#80
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
In article ,
Rob wrote: Is it? What is great to you may be rubbish to others. If there was a commercial opening for this 'great' music it would have been released on CD, in the main. A friend recently gave me a bunch of LPs to put on to CD - women singers and musicians of the 1920-40s (Victoria Spivey, Trixie Smith, Hociel Thomas and many more). Alas there doesn't seem to be a commercial opening for this type of music - so if you're reliant on CD you'd never hear it. Unless you bump into a nice chap like me :-) I'm sure there is material never released on LP too - 78 rpm only. Talking book material on cassette, 16rpm, etc. -- *Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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