Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?

Thanks
Bob

"Bob Pit" wrote in message
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It must be easy but how do you do this?

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter

In article 1110544844.814317@athnrd02, Bob Pit wrote:
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?

It's not easy at all. You basically need an all-pass filter that shifts
90 degrees at all frequencies, which is not a trivial thing and it's not
something any of the audio packages normally have because it's not normally
very useful.

Why do you want to do this?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter
I did a +90 degree phase shift on the left channel. It seems something like
what I am looking for, but still far from it.

Bob


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Bob Pit" wrote in message
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It must be easy but how do you do this?

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter

How about the "Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter" that Arny suggested?

Why do you want to do this?
The reason I want it is that the effect of a voiced processed like this, is
very hypnotic. I want to make hypnotic/subliminal mp3 files for myself.

Bob


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

In article 1110544844.814317@athnrd02, Bob Pit wrote:
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or
any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers.
It
must be easy but how do you do this?

It's not easy at all. You basically need an all-pass filter that shifts
90 degrees at all frequencies, which is not a trivial thing and it's not
something any of the audio packages normally have because it's not
normally
very useful.

Why do you want to do this?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Voxengo makes a phase shift plugin.

Al

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:42:10 +0200, "Bob Pit" wrote:

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter
I did a +90 degree phase shift on the left channel. It seems something like
what I am looking for, but still far from it.

Bob


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Bob Pit" wrote in message
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It must be easy but how do you do this?

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter

In article 1110573659.111832@athnrd02, Bob Pit wrote:
Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter
I did a +90 degree phase shift on the left channel. It seems something like
what I am looking for, but still far from it.

What are you looking for?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What are you looking for?
As I said, I want to make hypnotic/subliminal mp3 files for myself. The
only specs I have is "90 degree phase offset". I cannot describe it in
other specific ways. I can send you a very small segment of a professional
created mp3 file that use this technique if you want. If you are
experienced, then you will know how they did it.

Bob

In theory, a phase shift of 90 degrees is done by a capacitor.To calculate
the capacitance, for the desired frequency (20 Hz-20 kHz) you have to use
the following formula:Xc= 1/(omega*c)where omega=2*pi*f, f=frequency in
Hz.To give you an idea, for fm and tv frequency (VHF and UHF) we use 1nF and
for AM 100 nF capacitors.So, for audio frequencies, you need a 10
micro-farad capacitor (100 times that of the AM).
Tzortzakakis Dimitriïs
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Ï "Bob Pit" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02...
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or
any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers.
It
must be easy but how do you do this?

Thanks
Bob

In article 1110576331.158713@athnrd02, Bob Pit wrote:
What are you looking for?
As I said, I want to make hypnotic/subliminal mp3 files for myself. The
only specs I have is "90 degree phase offset". I cannot describe it in
other specific ways. I can send you a very small segment of a professional
created mp3 file that use this technique if you want. If you are
experienced, then you will know how they did it.

No, a 90-degree phase shift is really not very audible at all. Again, it's
an all-pass thing.

Are you thinking about some kind of comb filtering, and not really phase
shift at all?

Since MP3s don't exactly preserve phase very well anyway, any of this stuff
is going to be mostly lost in MP3 encoding in any event.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

No, a 90-degree phase shift is really not very audible at all. Again,
it's
an all-pass thing.

Are you thinking about some kind of comb filtering, and not really phase
shift at all?

I wish I knew what these mean. If I knew all these, probably I would not
ask for help in this forum.

Bob

Can you post a link to what you're talking about? It would be easier to
offer help.
Thanks


"Dimitrios Tzortzakakis" wrote in message
...
In theory, a phase shift of 90 degrees is done by a capacitor.To calculate
the capacitance, for the desired frequency (20 Hz-20 kHz) you have to use
the following formula:Xc= 1/(omega*c)where omega=2*pi*f, f=frequency in
Hz.To give you an idea, for fm and tv frequency (VHF and UHF) we use 1nF
and
for AM 100 nF capacitors.So, for audio frequencies, you need a 10
micro-farad capacitor (100 times that of the AM).
Tzortzakakis Dimitriïs
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Ï "Bob Pit" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02...
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or
any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers.
It
must be easy but how do you do this?

Thanks
Bob

"Bob Pit" wrote ...
I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It must be easy but how do you do this?

90 degrees of phase shift depends on what frequency you are talking
about, doesn't it? It is 1000x longer for 20Hz than it is for 20KHz

"Scott Dorsey"
Bob Pit :


I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or
any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers.
It
must be easy but how do you do this?

It's not easy at all. You basically need an all-pass filter that shifts
90 degrees at all frequencies, which is not a trivial thing and it's not
something any of the audio packages normally have because it's not
normally
very useful.



** Here is how you do it:

http://home.att.net/~wa1sov/technica...s/allpass.html


Enjoy.........



Why do you want to do this?


** He is loopy.



............. Phil

In article 1110579825.435618@athnrd02 writes:

I wish I knew what these mean. If I knew all these, probably I would not
ask for help in this forum.

I think you should ask whoever produced the files you're trying to
emulate. A 90 degree phase shift to one channel doesn't make any
sense. But maybe it's not supposed to.

If you'd like to experiment with hardware, the Little Labs IBP is a
box that has an adjustable phase shift. It's most often used to line
up a guitar direct signal with a microphone on an amplifier. It might
be educational to try it if you can find one to borrow.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Bob Pit wrote:
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?

You need a filter called a Hilbert transformer. Not a thing
readily available with DAW software but an FIR can be
generated in Matlab which does a pretty good job and can be
applied via Cool Edit's convolution function.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article 1110544844.814317@athnrd02, Bob Pit
wrote:
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?

It's not easy at all. You basically need an all-pass filter that
shifts
90 degrees at all frequencies, which is not a trivial thing and it's
not
something any of the audio packages normally have because it's not
normally
very useful.

Funny - thing is I have on occasion seen in the course of my TV
Audio duties program sources that show themselves on my Tektronics
scope to be 90% out of phase, but I was unaware there was anything
potentially subliminal involved. g

I forget exactly the details though, something to do with one side
of a balanced stereo feed being half patched in the patchbay , with
maybe the two sides having reversed polarity.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"WillStG"


Funny - thing is I have on occasion seen in the course of my TV
Audio duties program sources that show themselves on my Tektronics
scope to be 90% out of phase,


** That could only be so with a test tone in use.





.............. Phil

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?



You need a filter called a Hilbert transformer. Not a thing
readily available with DAW software but an FIR can be
generated in Matlab which does a pretty good job and can be
applied via Cool Edit's convolution function.

Yes, and wouldn't he also have to compensate for the delay in the
Hilbert FIR by delaying the other unprocessed channel by 1/2 the length
of the Hilbert FIR?

Joe

"Joseph Meditz"


You need a filter called a Hilbert transformer. Not a thing
readily available with DAW software but an FIR can be
generated in Matlab which does a pretty good job and can be
applied via Cool Edit's convolution function.

Yes, and wouldn't he also have to compensate for the delay in the
Hilbert FIR by delaying the other unprocessed channel by 1/2 the length
of the Hilbert FIR?



** See my post on this - a Hilbert transformer delays and phase shifts
both channels, one 90 degrees more than the other.

Remember - the OP wanted " ... a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. "




................ Phil

"Phil Allison"
"Joseph Meditz"


Yes, and wouldn't he also have to compensate for the delay in the
Hilbert FIR by delaying the other unprocessed channel by 1/2 the length
of the Hilbert FIR?



** Forget this:

" ** See my post on this - a Hilbert transformer delays and phase
shifts
both channels, one 90 degrees more than the other. "


** The OP will need to use the two all pass chains of the Hilbert
transformer for Left and Right channels.

AFAIK there is no way to produce a quadrature version of a given audio
signal.




.............. Phil

Joseph Meditz wrote:
I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice

(or any

mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2

channels/speakers. It

must be easy but how do you do this?




You need a filter called a Hilbert transformer. Not a thing
readily available with DAW software but an FIR can be
generated in Matlab which does a pretty good job and can be
applied via Cool Edit's convolution function.


Yes, and wouldn't he also have to compensate for the delay in the
Hilbert FIR by delaying the other unprocessed channel by 1/2 the length
of the Hilbert FIR?

Yes. I'd do that by creating a stereo FIR with one channel
just having a 0 dB impulse in the middle and the Hilbert
transform on the other channel.

If you were to mix those two channels you'd have what's
called a quadrature mixer and the result would be a constant
phase shift of between 0 and 90 at every frequency, the
angle determined by the mix ratio.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Phil Allison wrote:

AFAIK there is no way to produce a quadrature version of a given audio
signal.

Then modify what you know.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Phil Allison" wrote in message


AFAIK there is no way to produce a quadrature version of a given
audio signal.

That why SSB transmitters, a popular form of which is dependent on the
production of two audio signals that are in quadrature, never work.

;-)


BTW, I generated a stereo test tone composed of 1 second segments of 100 Hz,
500 Hz, 1KHz, 5 KHz and 10 KHz in Audition. I then applied the 90 degree
preset for the graphic phase shifter to the right channel. Each segment of
the right channel of the test tone was in fact phase shifted by 90 degrees
from the corresponding segment of the left channel.

I conclude that since Phil is always right, my test tone composed of 1
second segments of 100 Hz, 500 Hz, 1KHz, 5 KHz and 10 KHz is in fact not a
"given audio signal".

What is it?

;-)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:41:46 +0200, "Bob Pit" wrote:


I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice (or any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2 channels/speakers. It
must be easy but how do you do this?

We need to find out just what you mean by "90 deg phase offset".

You're going to get a lot of technical willy-waving now from people
who'll delight in taking your request literally. But I bet that
isn't what you want.

Can you point us to the source that suggested "90 deg phase offset"?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Arny Krueger" = autistic Yank ****wit
"Phil Allison"

AFAIK there is no way to produce a quadrature version of a given
audio signal.

That why SSB transmitters, a popular form of which is dependent on the
production of two audio signals that are in quadrature, never work.



** Hey you congenital Septic Tank ****wit - go back to primary school
and learn to ****ing read !!!!!!!!!!

Producing two signals in phase quadrature is what a Hilbert transformer
does - what I mentioned is another matter.




BTW, I generated a stereo test tone composed of 1 second segments of 100
Hz,
500 Hz, 1KHz, 5 KHz and 10 KHz in Audition. I then applied the 90 degree
preset for the graphic phase shifter to the right channel. Each segment
of
the right channel of the test tone was in fact phase shifted by 90
degrees
from the corresponding segment of the left channel.

I conclude that since Phil is always right, my test tone composed of 1
second segments of 100 Hz, 500 Hz, 1KHz, 5 KHz and 10 KHz is in fact not a
"given audio signal".

What is it?



** It ain't one ****ing bit like like he one I would give you to try.

Given means " any given" ie an arbitrary signal - unlike one
specially suited to the purpose.

Wake up, grow up and **** the hell off.




............ Phil

There's no link, I just read through the book electrical circuits, which is
necessary to pass to get the degree in EE in college.

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitriïs
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Ï "Dave Kowalski" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Can you post a link to what you're talking about? It would be easier to
offer help.
Thanks


"Dimitrios Tzortzakakis" wrote in message
...
In theory, a phase shift of 90 degrees is done by a capacitor.To
calculate
the capacitance, for the desired frequency (20 Hz-20 kHz) you have to
use
the following formula:Xc= 1/(omega*c)where omega=2*pi*f, f=frequency in
Hz.To give you an idea, for fm and tv frequency (VHF and UHF) we use 1nF
and
for AM 100 nF capacitors.So, for audio frequencies, you need a 10
micro-farad capacitor (100 times that of the AM).
Tzortzakakis Dimitriïs
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
Ï "Bob Pit" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:1110544844.814317@athnrd02...
Hi

I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or
any
mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers.
It
must be easy but how do you do this?

Thanks
Bob

In article 1110579825.435618@athnrd02, Bob Pit wrote:
No, a 90-degree phase shift is really not very audible at all. Again,
it's
an all-pass thing.

Are you thinking about some kind of comb filtering, and not really phase
shift at all?

I wish I knew what these mean. If I knew all these, probably I would not
ask for help in this forum.

Okay, comb filtering is what happens when you sum a signal that has been
shifted slightly in _time_ (not phase) with the original signal. This
results in a frequency response that looks like a toothed comb, and has
a somewhat airy and distant sound to it.

You can take a signal and shift it in _time_, in which every frequency is
shifted the same time factor, or you can shift it in _phase_, in which the
lower notes are shifted longer in time than the higher notes. A tape
machine is designed to shift signals in time... you put signals in and
what you get out is delayed by hours if not years when you play it back.
A delay in _phase_ is like that, but in varying amounts for different
frequencies.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Bob Pit" wrote ...
I am not very familiar with CoolEdit and I want to playback my voice
(or any mp3 file) with a 90 degree phase offset between the 2
channels/speakers. It must be easy but how do you do this?

90 degrees of phase shift depends on what frequency you are talking
about, doesn't it? It is 1000x longer for 20Hz than it is for 20KHz

Right. That is why a filter with constant phase shift at all frequencies
is very difficult to build. It's possible to do in the digital domain,
but it's not very useful.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Bob Pit" wrote in news:1110573659.111832@athnrd02:

Effects, Filters, Graphic Phase Shifter
I did a +90 degree phase shift on the left channel. It seems
something like what I am looking for, but still far from it.

Did you try mixing the two channels to mono? Is that the effect you want?

Right. That is why a filter with constant phase shift at all frequencies
is very difficult to build. It's possible to do in the digital domain, but
it's not very useful.

It is, for matrixed surround systems, or situations where you want to reduce the
build-up of mono components when stereo recordings are mixed to mono.

Traditionally, 90-degree phase-shift filters are implemented as an all-pass
filter for the signal that is _not_ to be shifted, plus an all-pass filter that
has the shift of the first filter, plus 90 degrees, for the signal that _is_ to
be shifted. qv, SQ, QS, et al.

On 3/11/05 5:24 PM, in article 1110579825.435618@athnrd02, "Bob Pit"
wrote:

No, a 90-degree phase shift is really not very audible at all. Again,
it's
an all-pass thing.

Are you thinking about some kind of comb filtering, and not really phase
shift at all?

I wish I knew what these mean. If I knew all these, probably I would not
ask for help in this forum.

Bob

Hey.. Bob... Ya don;t have to know, just listen to the less-kneejerk-manic
types here (like Scott!) who are still with you rather than being
hyperkinetic foulmouth reactionary intellectia. (?!)

Due to my self-limited time for reading this forum (I wanna help so many but
the incredible amount of sheer beligerance boggles) I start skipping even
the interesting threads like this when they get pointlessly whacky.
Can you (if you haven;t... I might've missed it) actually DESCRIBE the
effect you;re looking to achieve, maybe even an example of a recording that
demonstrates it?

JV

On 3/12/05 9:18 AM, in article , "Scott Dorsey"
wrote:

90 degrees of phase shift depends on what frequency you are talking
about, doesn't it? It is 1000x longer for 20Hz than it is for 20KHz

Right. That is why a filter with constant phase shift at all frequencies
is very difficult to build. It's possible to do in the digital domain,
but it's not very useful.
--scott

Never thought of this... What the hell does that SOOUND LIKE? Doesn;t the
old COMREX system do this... No wait, that's LINEAR frequency shifting.. Not
the same thing at all.

On 3/11/05 4:26 PM, in article 1110576331.158713@athnrd02, "Bob Pit"
wrote:

What are you looking for?
As I said, I want to make hypnotic/subliminal mp3 files for myself. The
only specs I have is "90 degree phase offset". I cannot describe it in
other specific ways. I can send you a very small segment of a professional
created mp3 file that use this technique if you want. If you are
experienced, then you will know how they did it.

I'll make some wildassed speculation here.
Possible #1:
Simple reverse-polarity between left and right channels.
(while this is almost always thought of as "180deg phase shift". It's only
180deg at ONE frequency... Which is why everybody MUST understand that
REVERSE PHASE really means NOTHING like REVERSE POLARITY).
This results (especially in headphones) in a bizarre sort of 'behind-me'
effect.
It also means that the sound COMPLETELY VANISHES when the audio is
listened to in mono. What it might do to how various processors handle it,
is up for grabs... For instance let's say you want to compress the stereo
pair (which as I said are reverse=polarity) and the compressor senses the
overall level at any instant by COMBINING left-and-right channels, just to
derive the control signal to discern how much gain reduction to effect, then
with the polarity flop in the signal, that control-signal instead of being a
very real SUM of left and right overall levels, becomes ZERO and the
compressor might do NOTHING or merely get 'interesting' in it's actions.

POSSIBLE #2
Simple SHORT time-delay between channels. (on the order of milliseconds)
This is actually phase-shift, but while the TIME might be a constant (say a
few milliseconds) the amount of PHASE shifted varies with frequency, way
more at hi's, very little with lo's. This again results (since it's playing
with arrival-times at left-vs-right ear) in a 'where-IS-that-coming-from'
effect in your head, again especially in headphones.
When THIS sort of thing is summed to mono, the effect goes from a minimal
vacuum-cleaner-hose hollow effect to, with time-delays on the order of 50ms
on up, VERY whacked peaks and cancellations of frequencies all up and down
the spectrum, mathematically related, that, when looked at on an analyser,
show as regularly-spaced peaks and dips wider-and-fewer (for short delay
times), through MASSIVE numbers of lines of peaks and dips closer and closer
together at regular intervals, making the chart look like teeth in a comb.

SUMMATION:
These two are EASY to achieve with most any audio gear you have available.
You might try them to see if they can do what you want to hear. You have
nothing to lose (not even money!)

Beyond these two approaches, you walk into the mathematical REAL world of
serious weird stuff, and what the folks here have been going on (at
wonderful length) about... And THAt has been a real breath of fresh air
(excluding the kneejerk socially-inept inexcusable foulmouth overeactions to
what SHOULD be simple pleasant exploration of a concept) amongst the
mundanity.

Hope this helps
Jv

Phil Allison wrote:
"Phil Allison"
"Joseph Meditz"


Yes, and wouldn't he also have to compensate for the delay in the
Hilbert FIR by delaying the other unprocessed channel by 1/2 the
length
of the Hilbert FIR?



** Forget this:

" ** See my post on this - a Hilbert transformer delays and
phase
shifts
both channels, one 90 degrees more than the other. "


** The OP will need to use the two all pass chains of the Hilbert
transformer for Left and Right channels.

AFAIK there is no way to produce a quadrature version of a given
audio
signal.




............. Phil


A +45 and -45 degree shifted version of a given audio signal can be
approximated in real time over a limited range of frequencies using a
large number of RC networks.

Mark

John wrote:
On 3/12/05 9:18 AM, in article , "Scott Dorsey"
wrote:

90 degrees of phase shift depends on what frequency you are talking
about, doesn't it? It is 1000x longer for 20Hz than it is for 20KHz

Right. That is why a filter with constant phase shift at all frequencies
is very difficult to build. It's possible to do in the digital domain,
but it's not very useful.

Never thought of this... What the hell does that SOOUND LIKE? Doesn;t the
old COMREX system do this... No wait, that's LINEAR frequency shifting.. Not
the same thing at all.

As Sommerwerck points out, this is how the rear channels are encoded with
some of the matrix quadraphonic systems. And what it sounds like, for the
most part, isn't much at all. If you listen to the things undecoded, they
may sound a little "funny" but not offensively so.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/12/05 4:05 PM, in article , "Scott Dorsey"
wrote:

John wrote:
On 3/12/05 9:18 AM, in article , "Scott Dorsey"
wrote:

90 degrees of phase shift depends on what frequency you are talking
about, doesn't it? It is 1000x longer for 20Hz than it is for 20KHz

Right. That is why a filter with constant phase shift at all frequencies
is very difficult to build. It's possible to do in the digital domain,
but it's not very useful.

Never thought of this... What the hell does that SOOUND LIKE? Doesn;t the
old COMREX system do this... No wait, that's LINEAR frequency shifting.. Not
the same thing at all.

As Sommerwerck points out, this is how the rear channels are encoded with
some of the matrix quadraphonic systems. And what it sounds like, for the
most part, isn't much at all. If you listen to the things undecoded, they
may sound a little "funny" but not offensively so.

And there's where I get left behind...
Wouldn't constant phase shift mean VARYING time shift across the spectrum
and everything goes to hell in a handbucketbrigadedevice?

John wrote:

And there's where I get left behind...
Wouldn't constant phase shift mean VARYING time shift across the spectrum
and everything goes to hell in a handbucketbrigadedevice?

Right, so an impulse no longer looks like an impulse, but is sort of
smushed to one side or the other. It tends to make detail sound a little
bit smeary... string attacks don't sound sharp any more. Kind of an AM radio
sound thing, since I guess that's where people are most familiar with
massive group delay.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

As Sommerwerck points out, this is how the rear channels are encoded
with some of the matrix quadraphonic systems. And what it sounds like,
for the most part, isn't much at all. If you listen to the things undecoded,
they may sound a little "funny," but not offensively so.

When played in stereo, on speakers that image well, the rear channels of an SQ
recording appear slightly "outside" the speakers.

John wrote:

And there's where I get left behind...
Wouldn't constant phase shift mean VARYING time shift across the spectrum
and everything goes to hell in a handbucketbrigadedevice?

Yes. Think of it as a magnitude compensated first
derivative of the signal WRT time.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein