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#1
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Converters make the difference?
What hardware was used?
Your comparing the bottom of the barrel to Radar and ignoring a wealth of other options- for instance- I use RME Multiface with GenX6 word clock as master- record 24/96 and I can't imagine you would hear the same drastic differences- or there is the simple Rosetta from Apogee- stereo a/d conversion- I'm sure these won't be much more than the cost of the hours of tracking- I also hear Aardvark is good too- but I'm terribly happy with RME- I'll never go MOTU again unless maybe when the day came I switched to a Mac- which is not going to happen in the foreseeable future! C "Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... So I got this no name piece of gear soundcard & breakout box thing here to attempt do acoustic overdubs in Nuendo. The original acoustic tracks were done on Radar, not sure which converters. I was told Nyquist but not sure about that. An Amek 9098 Pre/Eq(EQ out) was used. I'm just monitoring for now through phones comparing my overdubbed tone against what what was recorded and the tone sucks...thin, bright, gnarly. Same mic, same guitar, diffenet pre(for now)the room wasn't stellar that it was recorded in & isn't now(although it was quieter), good engineer vs. me but basically I don't think those things are mattering here.............the tone I'm getting just sucks & I don't think a mic pre would make the difference.............it's just about tone, stick a mic up & go & it sounds thin, brittle, noisy(beyond the room I think) which leads me to believe this soundcard is a POS and the converters, and some other isssues. The wildcard is me engineering but still, there's something else going on here. So far gonna save my cash & go back and record on Radar. Bummed in Nville. My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#2
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Converters make the difference?
So? Are you complaining about the fact that the Nyquist converters are too
good, or that you simply, as an engineer, haven't figured out what you're supposed to do yet? If you feel you can't accomplish the job, then either you shouldn't have taken it, or you should have made certain that you could accompish it. That could/would mean perhaps renting in equipment you needed, or, knowing that you're environment isn't quiet enough, renting out some studio time. This whole gig is about knowing beforehand what you need, and if someone isn't capable of telling you what you need to know, being quick on your feet to product the needed results in the absolute shortest period of time. Since you've got a description of the sound "thin, bright, gnarly", then you've got a starting point. Actually you always have a starting point, and that's "what did it sound like when I was playing it?". An engineer either gets the sound the way it is, or the way somebody else wants it. You kinda sound like you don't know how to get the sound the way it is. Why even care about the sound their tracks are putting out? If you A) play your ass off, it will work, and B) if you play your ass off, it will work even better if you record it right. And don't negate "thin, bright, gnarly" when that might actually be the thing you're looking for. The space is your's man, make the best of it. We have confidence in you! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. "Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... So I got this no name piece of gear soundcard & breakout box thing here to attempt do acoustic overdubs in Nuendo. The original acoustic tracks were done on Radar, not sure which converters. I was told Nyquist but not sure about that. An Amek 9098 Pre/Eq(EQ out) was used. I'm just monitoring for now through phones comparing my overdubbed tone against what what was recorded and the tone sucks...thin, bright, gnarly. Same mic, same guitar, diffenet pre(for now)the room wasn't stellar that it was recorded in & isn't now(although it was quieter), good engineer vs. me but basically I don't think those things are mattering here.............the tone I'm getting just sucks & I don't think a mic pre would make the difference.............it's just about tone, stick a mic up & go & it sounds thin, brittle, noisy(beyond the room I think) which leads me to believe this soundcard is a POS and the converters, and some other isssues. The wildcard is me engineering but still, there's something else going on here. So far gonna save my cash & go back and record on Radar. Bummed in Nville. My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#3
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Converters make the difference?
Roger wrote:
So? Are you complaining about the fact that the Nyquist converters are too good, or that you simply, as an engineer, haven't figured out what you're supposed to do yet? Just whining out loud. Radar rawks though. If you feel you can't accomplish the job, then either you shouldn't have taken it, or you should have made certain that you could accompish it. That could/would mean perhaps renting in equipment you needed, or, knowing that you're environment isn't quiet enough, renting out some studio time. This whole gig is about knowing beforehand what you need, and if someone isn't capable of telling you what you need to know, being quick on your feet to product the needed results in the absolute shortest period of time. I have thought most of it out, the failsafe has always been the studio. From the beginning I told myself if I don't feel that I can pull it off at the house I'll just buck up & finish it at the studio(the sound of engineers & studio owners clapping ) I just would love to be able to do it here.................at any hour I choose as many times as I want. Since you've got a description of the sound "thin, bright, gnarly", then you've got a starting point. Actually you always have a starting point, and that's "what did it sound like when I was playing it?". Not like that An engineer either gets the sound the way it is, or the way somebody else wants it. Well there wasn't anything done to my sound first time, guitar, mic, pre, radar. No Eq no nothing. I'm using a different pre but I just have a feeling that although the right pre will make a difference, there's another element escaping me(besides engineer) The freaking soundcard! You kinda sound like you don't know how to get the sound the way it is. I think I do know how to get it..........I've gotten it before, it's just not happening on my rig at present. Why even care about the sound their tracks are putting out? If you A) play your ass off, it will work, and B) if you play your ass off, it will work even better if you record it right. trying for letter B. And don't negate "thin, bright, gnarly" when that might actually be the thing you're looking for. Yeah I've learned all things can't be big & fat & warm in a mix but I got instruments covering that sonic territory..............I'm not looking for "thin, bright, gnarly" from my acoustic guitar on these particular tunes. heh The space is your's man, make the best of it. We have confidence in you! g Hey thanks! Stuart Smalley moment, I know I can do this. Doing it's another thing though. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. "Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... So I got this no name piece of gear soundcard & breakout box thing here to attempt do acoustic overdubs in Nuendo. The original acoustic tracks were done on Radar, not sure which converters. I was told Nyquist but not sure about that. An Amek 9098 Pre/Eq(EQ out) was used. I'm just monitoring for now through phones comparing my overdubbed tone against what what was recorded and the tone sucks...thin, bright, gnarly. Same mic, same guitar, diffenet pre(for now)the room wasn't stellar that it was recorded in & isn't now(although it was quieter), good engineer vs. me but basically I don't think those things are mattering here.............the tone I'm getting just sucks & I don't think a mic pre would make the difference.............it's just about tone, stick a mic up & go & it sounds thin, brittle, noisy(beyond the room I think) which leads me to believe this soundcard is a POS and the converters, and some other isssues. The wildcard is me engineering but still, there's something else going on here. So far gonna save my cash & go back and record on Radar. Bummed in Nville. My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#4
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Converters make the difference?
Mike Rivers wrote:
That's the principle behind personal studios. It's possible, but when it comes to recording acoustic instruments and vocals, you need to put more into it than just equipment. I suspect that whatever A/D converters or mic preamp that you have aren't your major problem, but once you get your major problem (most likely an architectural one) is fixed, I dunno with my limited experience with different soundcards I'm going out on the limb and saying this soundcard is a "major" problem for me in achieving the sound I want. The architecture is for sure, perhaps more so. I am soloing just the mic in the room with nothing & it's too damn noisy for sure, for me. I could get away with it I think but not in good conscience. The architecture you might be able to hear what better converters sound like. I can hear it, I don't care if I'm not an engineer. I can hear the differences.......I couldn't tell you what's what but I can tell you there's no depth, it's noisy beyond the room. I couldn't hear much difference between Sound Manager & an AM 2 or 3 card but I can here the difference between this POS C Port into Nuendo and tracking in Radar That being said, I can hear a significant difference between the fifteen cent audio hardware built into my laptop computer and the Digigram VX Pocket card, even when listening to low rate streaming audio (radio broadcast, dialup) over the Internet on my Radio Shack Minimus 7 speakers. If you're just playing with loops, writing songs, rehearsing, or arranging, a simple home studio in a corner of a room is fine. But when you want things to sound like they do in a real studio, you need to at least come close to that real studio environment. You speak the truth, luckily the basic tracks were done there. this is just icinng but still..................... My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#5
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Converters make the difference?
So I got this no name piece of gear soundcard & breakout box thing here to
attempt do acoustic overdubs in Nuendo. The original acoustic tracks were done on Radar, not sure which converters. I was told Nyquist but not sure about that. An Amek 9098 Pre/Eq(EQ out) was used. I'm just monitoring for now through phones comparing my overdubbed tone against what what was recorded and the tone sucks...thin, bright, gnarly. Same mic, same guitar, diffenet pre(for now)the room wasn't stellar that it was recorded in & isn't now(although it was quieter), good engineer vs. me but basically I don't think those things are mattering here.............the tone I'm getting just sucks & I don't think a mic pre would make the difference.............it's just about tone, stick a mic up & go & it sounds thin, brittle, noisy Just for ****s & giggles, what preamp was used on the orginal tracks and with what mic? Converters matter but not as much as mics, placement and preamps IMHO. I'm not a big fan of the pre on the 9098pre/EQ. While it doesn't suck it isn't far from it, I've heard run of the mill Amek console pres sound much better in A/B comparions when I was in the hot seat. --- -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ http://www.madmooserecording.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - Come visit me here -- http://www.gearslutz.com |
#7
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Converters make the difference?
Jay wrote: Just for ****s & giggles, what preamp was used on the orginal tracks and with what mic? Converters matter but not as much as mics, placement and preamps IMHO. I'm not a big fan of the pre on the 9098pre/EQ. While it doesn't suck it isn't far from it, I've heard run of the mill Amek console pres sound much better in A/B comparions when I was in the hot seat. Hey Jay, on the tracking session the mic was a 4033 & the pre an Amek 9098. I'm resigned to the fact that there are a lot of other issues involved here other than the converters but that Soundcard Interface is still a POS I think - for what I'm trying to achieve. --- -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ http://www.madmooserecording.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - Come visit me here -- http://www.gearslutz.com My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#8
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Converters make the difference?
Ty Ford wrote: Just for ****s & giggles, what preamp was used on the orginal tracks and with what mic? Converters matter but not as much as mics, placement and preamps IMHO. I'm not a big fan of the pre on the 9098pre/EQ. While it doesn't suck it isn't far from it, I've heard run of the mill Amek console pres sound much better in A/B comparions when I was in the hot seat. Conversely, I really like the 9098 pre/EQ. It does some really nice things. The EQ is a bit different and takes some getting used to. For lack of a better word, I found a little sponginess to it. Very cool for some things, not so good on others. -Rob |
#9
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Converters make the difference?
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#10
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Converters make the difference?
Conversely, I really like the 9098 pre/EQ. It does some really nice things.
The EQ is a bit different and takes some getting used to. Go figure. I like the EQ a lot but the preamps almost always leave me wanting more. I remember one session where I ha the bass DI'd from a Demeter box and into a 9098pre/EQ with the EQ out. The bass player wanted to know why it sounded weird. I agreed that it did and ran it into one of the console (Amek Mozart, transformerless) pres and we agreed that it sounded much better. I had the same thing repeat it's self many many times. I don't know why, it should be nice but it just sits there in a boring and uninteresting way. It's bland. But, I don't think this is the posters problem if he used it on the basic tracks and he's still using it. So, I digress... --- -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ http://www.madmooserecording.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - Come visit me here -- http://www.gearslutz.com |
#11
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Converters make the difference?
Go figure. I like the EQ a lot but the preamps almost always leave me wanting more. I remember one session where I ha the bass DI'd from a Demeter box and into a 9098pre/EQ with the EQ out. The bass player wanted to know why it sounded weird. I agreed that it did and ran it into one of the console (Amek Mozart, transformerless) pres and we agreed that it sounded much better. I had the same thing repeat it's self many many times. I don't know why, it should be nice but it just sits there in a boring and uninteresting way. It's bland. But, I don't think this is the posters problem if he used it on the basic tracks and he's still using it. Well I'm not still using it but I don't have a problem with the sound I got tracking with it & Radar.....at all but when I go back I'll be able to choose and try different pres(Great River & Vintech 1272s) since they won't be wasted on freakin drums this time! Just kiddin....sorta. So, I digress... --- -Jay Kahrs Owner - Chief Engineer Mad Moose Recording Inc. Morris Plains, NJ http://www.madmooserecording.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - Come visit me here -- http://www.gearslutz.com My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#12
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Converters make the difference?
Mondoslug1 wrote:
Well I'm not still using it but I don't have a problem with the sound I got tracking with it & Radar... If you're happy with what you got using a Radar 24, and you are now unhappy with what you're getting using your soundcard, then, yeah, convertors might well make the difference. But understand that if the problems are upstream from conversion, better convertors will not help, except to allow better interpretation of the problems. That can be good in the long run. But if one thinks a certain tool is going to fix a problem, and the tool just makes the problem more obivous, one's first reaction is often disapointment. -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" |
#13
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Converters make the difference?
Hank wrote:
Mondoslug1 wrote: Well I'm not still using it but I don't have a problem with the sound I got tracking with it & Radar... If you're happy with what you got using a Radar 24, and you are now unhappy with what you're getting using your soundcard, then, yeah, convertors might well make the difference. But understand that if the problems are upstream from conversion, better convertors will not help, except to allow better interpretation of the problems. That can be good in the long run. But if one thinks a certain tool is going to fix a problem, and the tool just makes the problem more obivous, one's first reaction is often disapointment. Yeah that's where I'm afraid this would eventually head with the current rig. I'm repeating myself but I do think this tool(POS Soundcard) is a big part of the problem and a better hardware interface would no doubt be an improvement. This projec - biased as I am - deserves much better. -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#14
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Converters make the difference?
Mondoslug1 wrote:
I do think this tool(POS Soundcard) is a big part of the problem and a better hardware interface would no doubt be an improvement. This projec - biased as I am - deserves much better. I don't know anything about computer sound cards, but aren't there some pretty good ones around for not all that much money? Arny, what's nice and not too costly? -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" |
#15
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Converters make the difference?
Arny K wrote:
"LeBaron & Alrich" wrote in message t Mondoslug1 wrote: I do think this tool(POS Soundcard) is a big part of the problem and a better hardware interface would no doubt be an improvement. This projec - biased as I am - deserves much better. I don't know anything about computer sound cards, but aren't there some pretty good ones around for not all that much money? Arny, what's nice and not too costly? Please check out http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm . Wow.....thanks for the link. Depends on what you want... I think the lowest cost record/play consumer cards that are good enough to recommend would be the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz or a CL Audigy OEM. The lowest cost production-style card is probably the Echo Mia. The M-Audio Delta 1010 is probably the lowest cost multichannel (8 or more) production-style audio interface I can recommend. I need something like the Lynx 22 or RME Multiface although I've never personally heard either one. I only need like 2 analog in and 4 out so I can monitor a stereo mix & 2 mics through an external mixer. You ever run across an ST C Port DAC 2000? I thought I read that it had the same converters as the Delta stuff...........I hope not for Delta's sake. Although I play a bjorkin' beginner on usenet.................... My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#16
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Converters make the difference?
Just for ****s & giggles, what preamp was used on the orginal tracks and with what mic? Converters matter but not as much as mics, placement and preamps IMHO. I'm not a big fan of the pre on the 9098pre/EQ. While it doesn't suck it isn't far from it, I've heard run of the mill Amek console pres sound much better in A/B comparions when I was in the hot seat. Hey Jay, on the tracking session the mic was a 4033 & the pre an Amek 9098. I'm resigned to the fact that there are a lot of other issues involved here other than the converters but that Soundcard Interface is still a POS I think - for what I'm trying to achieve. And what mic and pre are you using with your POS soundcard??? Jeff Chestek |
#17
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Converters make the difference?
jeffrey Chestek wrote:
Just for ****s & giggles, what preamp was used on the orginal tracks and with what mic? Converters matter but not as much as mics, placement and preamps IMHO. I'm not a big fan of the pre on the 9098pre/EQ. While it doesn't suck it isn't far from it, I've heard run of the mill Amek console pres sound much better in A/B comparions when I was in the hot seat. Hey Jay, on the tracking session the mic was a 4033 & the pre an Amek 9098. I'm resigned to the fact that there are a lot of other issues involved here other than the converters but that Soundcard Interface is still a POS I think - for what I'm trying to achieve. And what mic and pre are you using with your POS soundcard??? Jeff Chestek A 4033 and a DBX 586 here on loan to try which I know is not thought of fondly around these parts & I might tend to agree but that's where this started. Changing the pre would make a difference no doubt but I thiik there is another issue or two beyond the pre. My tunes at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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