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#1
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phase shift boxes.
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound weird or quiet. With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed, not just the overall phase. I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing. So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the same thing? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
philicorda wrote:
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass. I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound weird or quiet. Life is like that. The thing is, if the comb filtering is due entirely to delay, a delay will fix it. If it's due to something else, it won't. With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed, not just the overall phase. Yes, and there are also plenty of frequencies being added by the amp too, that just weren't in the DI feed. I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing. They are all-pass networks. For the most part, they are intended for use in the analogue tape world or in the live world where you can't easily do any delay. So I am not sure if it will do what you want, but it's worth trying. So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the same thing? It is frequency dependant... it is adding "group delay" which varies by frequency. A plugin that is an "all-pass filter" will do the same thing, if it exists. You could make one in Matlab easily. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
"philicorda" wrote in message
... I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass. I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound weird or quiet. With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed, not just the overall phase. It has; the speaker has a frequency-dependent delay due to its low-frequency rolloff, along with a frequency-independent delay from the space between the cone and the mic. I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing. So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Yep. See above. This was the principle reason the IBP was designed. It works, too. Are there any plugins that do the same thing? Not to my knowledge. Peace, Paul |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
philicorda wrote:
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass. I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound weird or quiet. With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed, not just the overall phase. I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing. So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the same thing? FWIW, I have had pretty cool luck deconvolving the mic signal against the direct signal, and looking for the bit-position of the biggest spike in the deconvolution signature for the amount to delay things by. This only when it's very difficult to understand spikes. The deconvolver I've used is Voxengo. Use short samples. -- Les Cargill |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
philicorda wrote:
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass. I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound weird or quiet. With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed, not just the overall phase. I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing. So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the same thing? Audition has a graphic phase shifter (x), reportedly somewhat diminished in usability in 3.0 compared to 2.0 - that reduction of usability caused some quite angry user reports, you might want to check this out on the adobe audition support board that Adobe runs. You can use nntp-access via news://adobeforums.com as soon as you have registred for an account, it may be that someone came up with a trick for using the A2 phase shifiter with A3 ..... it may also be that the downloadable demo will do what you need done, just pretend that it is stereo track. I can't tell you how A3 is in that respect compared to A2 - yet. (x) yes, you free hand draw the phase difference you want between channels. A spectral phase view is also avaiable that can tell you what's wrong, if what you see is wrong, real rich stereo looks very real and rich in it .... Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
Paul Stamler wrote:
Are there any plugins that do the same thing? Not to my knowledge. Audition. Check the demo, they reportedly made this part of it a wee bit less usable from 2.0 to 3.0 and got some angry user reports, seems like they thought nobody was using that part of it .... O;-) ... never did btw. but it may be just what Philicorda needs. Peace, Paul Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
1) When you timeshift reverse the phase of one of the channels so you can
hear easily where the weird things are. 2) The DI and the Amp sound MUST be different, otherwise it doesn't make sense recording both :-) F. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
Are there any plugins that do the *same thing? Not to my knowledge. I use the free TritoneDigital phase plugin a lot. Seems to work well and is probably the easiest way to do it. http://www.tritonedigital.com/produc...a0de3baa7a62bc |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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phase shift boxes.
On Oct 10, 9:33*am, "
wrote: Are there any plugins that do the *same thing? Not to my knowledge. I use the free TritoneDigital phase plugin a lot. *Seems to work well and is probably the easiest way to do it. http://www.tritonedigital.com/produc...&products_id=3.... the comb filtering will be worst when the two combined signals are equal level...if you set one signal 6dB less than the other, the comb filtering will be much reduced. Mark |
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