[Chris Whealy]

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Anahata]

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:29:22 +0100, Chris Whealy wrote:

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)
[...]
Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per
channel?

Chris W


http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm

You have to email or call Mick for a quote. Highly thought of by the few
who know about them. I have a BG-1 (2 channels)

--
Anahata
==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

[soundhaspriority]

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

You're leaving out the Octopre, a Class A preamp at about $90/channel. A
very, very fine unit. OTOH, it is not sound-altering, the desire for which
may be reflected in your list.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

[Goran Stojiljkovic]

Im just bought Shadow Hills Gamma8.....




"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Ian Thompson-Bell]

Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian

[Chris Whealy]

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[David Grant]

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?


The obligatory "if you can stretch your budget a bit" recommendation:

Aphex 1788a

[Chris Whealy]

Soundhaspriority wrote:
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---


You're leaving out the Octopre, a Class A preamp at about $90/channel. A
very, very fine unit. OTOH, it is not sound-altering, the desire for which
may be reflected in your list.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

I have heard mixed reviews of that pre. Some love it, some hate it.
I think with the Octopre, Focusrite aimed for a price point in the
market, and consequently, it won't have the quality parts that units in
their Red or ISA range have.

I'm already using an ISA 828 which is excellent, and I'd be very
surprised if Focusrite made a "budget" pre that offered serious
competition to one of their own products in a higher range.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Chris Whealy]

David Grant wrote:
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?



The obligatory "if you can stretch your budget a bit" recommendation:

Aphex 1788a


Very nice too, but I can't stretch my budget beyond its elastic limit! :-)

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Chris Whealy]

Goran Stojiljkovic wrote:
Im just bought Shadow Hills Gamma8.....


That looks pretty nice, but I can't find out much information on that unit.
http://www.shadowhillsindustries.com does not mention it, neither does
http://vintageking.com

You're in Croatia right? Where did you get from, and was it second hand?
Can't find a supplier here in the UK though.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Chris Whealy]

anahata wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:29:22 +0100, Chris Whealy wrote:


I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)
[...]
Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per
channel?

Chris W



http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm

You have to email or call Mick for a quote. Highly thought of by the few
who know about them. I have a BG-1 (2 channels)


Thanks, I'll mail him for some details...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[soundhaspriority]

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority wrote:
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per
channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---


You're leaving out the Octopre, a Class A preamp at about $90/channel. A
very, very fine unit. OTOH, it is not sound-altering, the desire for
which may be reflected in your list.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
I have heard mixed reviews of that pre. Some love it, some hate it.
I think with the Octopre, Focusrite aimed for a price point in the market,
and consequently, it won't have the quality parts that units in their Red
or ISA range have.

I've had it apart, and the quality of the parts is excellent. Lots of Wima
caps.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

[Chris Whealy]

Soundhaspriority wrote:
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...

Soundhaspriority wrote:

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...


I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per
channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---


You're leaving out the Octopre, a Class A preamp at about $90/channel. A
very, very fine unit. OTOH, it is not sound-altering, the desire for
which may be reflected in your list.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

I have heard mixed reviews of that pre. Some love it, some hate it.
I think with the Octopre, Focusrite aimed for a price point in the market,
and consequently, it won't have the quality parts that units in their Red
or ISA range have.


I've had it apart, and the quality of the parts is excellent. Lots of Wima
caps.


OK, I'll take your word for that. But I am still wondering why
Focusrite would compete against themselves given that in the UK, the
basic Octopre LE goes for around £250, but the ISA 828 is £1500.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[soundhaspriority]

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Soundhaspriority wrote:
"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...

Soundhaspriority wrote:

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...


I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units,
particularly the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per
channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---


You're leaving out the Octopre, a Class A preamp at about $90/channel.
A very, very fine unit. OTOH, it is not sound-altering, the desire for
which may be reflected in your list.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

I have heard mixed reviews of that pre. Some love it, some hate it.
I think with the Octopre, Focusrite aimed for a price point in the
market, and consequently, it won't have the quality parts that units in
their Red or ISA range have.


I've had it apart, and the quality of the parts is excellent. Lots of
Wima caps.


OK, I'll take your word for that. But I am still wondering why Focusrite
would compete against themselves given that in the UK, the basic Octopre
LE goes for around £250, but the ISA 828 is £1500.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

The ISA828 uses transformers. The Octorpre does not. The world is divided
into two groups: those who want a particular sound, and those who want
ultimate accuracy. No one who records vocals wants accuracy, which explains
why mostly large diaphragm mikes and transformer based pres are used.

OTOH, the people who record symphony orchestras, classical ensembles, etc.
want to capture as much detail as they can. They deride terms such as
"warmth", or "presence." They usually spend a great deal of money on pres,
but their choices, Millenia or Grace, do not use transformers. The Octopre
is an attempt to come close to the standard these pres have established for
the particular category of transformerless pres.

The best reason you would have for not buying an Octopre is that you want
your recordings to sound good. Practically anyone's voice can be improved
with the right electronics, so why leave it alone?

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

[Goran Stojiljkovic]

second hand...5500 $ in USA
more information at www.gearslutz.com
Vintage King is a dealer in USA in Europe Golden Age Music
but you can only buy gamma4..gama8 is no longer aviable

Goran

"Chris Whealy" wrote in message
...
Goran Stojiljkovic wrote:
Im just bought Shadow Hills Gamma8.....


That looks pretty nice, but I can't find out much information on that
unit.
http://www.shadowhillsindustries.com does not mention it, neither does
http://vintageking.com

You're in Croatia right? Where did you get from, and was it second hand?
Can't find a supplier here in the UK though.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Nate Najar]

On Oct 1, 9:29 am, Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an existing
unit (used for vocals)

Possible contenders a
o Focusrite ISA 828
o Edax Audio Lab MP800
o Audient ASP 008
o RME Micstacy

A to D is not required as a built in feature/option as the pre being
replaced already feeds into an RME ADI-8.
Has anyone got experience/comments with any of these units, particularly
the Edax or the Audient?

Any other recommendations that work out to around £250 ($450) per channel?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

I recently acquired a TRUE precision 8 and I'm very pleased with it.
it sounds very natural and transparent, and the high end is very
smooth. It isn't as detailed as the millennia hv3, but it's plenty
detailed and I wouldn't hesitate to use it as my only pre. I like it
better than the rnp and I'm very fond of the rnp.

I have no experience with any of those that you mention, but the dav
and the audient both are in the same price range and are popular
units.

N

[Ian Thompson-Bell]

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W


Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.

Cheers

Ian

[Chris Whealy]

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W


Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with
built in compressors.

Cheers

Ian
Yes, I've thought of that. I am generally leaning in that direction
because at the moment, all the compression is happening in a Yamaha 02R
- which is OK, but the more I use outboard pres and compressors, the
less I like the pres and compressors in the 02R.

A unit like the Edax Audio Lab Max 800 looks suitable, but it would be
nice to talk to someone who already has one. The unit is also pretty
close to my budget's elastic limit!

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[hank alrich]

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.

If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.
If he needs to massage dynamic range he can do it later in far better
monitoring circumstances absent the pressure of a live performance
timeline.

Here are links to info about two well-regarded boxes:

True Precision 8
http://www.true-systems.com/products_P8.html

ATI 8MX2
http://www.apiaudio.com/8mx2.html

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[hank alrich]

Chris Whealy wrote:

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W


Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with
built in compressors.

Cheers

Ian
Yes, I've thought of that. I am generally leaning in that direction
because at the moment, all the compression is happening in a Yamaha 02R
- which is OK, but the more I use outboard pres and compressors, the
less I like the pres and compressors in the 02R.

A unit like the Edax Audio Lab Max 800 looks suitable, but it would be
nice to talk to someone who already has one. The unit is also pretty
close to my budget's elastic limit!

It is unlikely that the compression in an 8-channel single-rackspace mic
preamp will be any better than that in the O2R. Now, if you want to
spring for a Cranesong Spider, blowing the size and budget, you'll
probably prefer its peak limiting to the compression of the Yamaha
board.

http://www.cranesong.com/spider.html

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Chris Whealy]

hank alrich wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:


Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:

I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian

Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W


Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with
built in compressors.

Cheers

Ian

Yes, I've thought of that. I am generally leaning in that direction
because at the moment, all the compression is happening in a Yamaha 02R
- which is OK, but the more I use outboard pres and compressors, the
less I like the pres and compressors in the 02R.

A unit like the Edax Audio Lab Max 800 looks suitable, but it would be
nice to talk to someone who already has one. The unit is also pretty
close to my budget's elastic limit!


It is unlikely that the compression in an 8-channel single-rackspace mic
preamp will be any better than that in the O2R. Now, if you want to
spring for a Cranesong Spider, blowing the size and budget, you'll
probably prefer its peak limiting to the compression of the Yamaha
board.

http://www.cranesong.com/spider.html


Now you're just being unfair.... :-)
I dare say I would prefer a Cranesong Spider, and it is undoubtedly a
superb piece of kit, but it comes in at over £600 / channel....

What I'm looking for is a good 8 channel, vocal pre amp that comes in at
no more than (absolute tops) £275 / channel.
I already have an RME ADI-8 A to D so that feature is not needed. The
signal then goes into an 02R and then via some MOTU 2408 MkIII's into a
Mac Pro running Logic.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm still looking...

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Chris Whealy]

hank alrich wrote:
If he needs to massage dynamic range he can do it later in far better monitoring circumstances absent the pressure of a live performance timeline.

Here are links to info about two well-regarded boxes:

True Precision 8
http://www.true-systems.com/products_P8.html

ATI 8MX2
http://www.apiaudio.com/8mx2.html


If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.
Thinking about it, built in compression is a nice feature for a more
controlled studio environment, but during a live performance where
anything can (and usually does) happen, I don't want to have to 1)
noodle around with compressor settings and 2) risk recording the vocal
channel with compression that, after the event, I think isn't what I
really wanted.

Most of the time, I try to record vocals without compression, but this
does not always work. We have one singer who (when he gets warmed up)
can almost generate line level directly out of the microphone... :-O

At the moment True does not list a UK distributor.
The ATI 8MX2 also looks good.

Thanks for the suggestions, still investigating

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Ian Thompson-Bell]

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)

Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Chris W


Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with
built in compressors.

Cheers

Ian
Yes, I've thought of that. I am generally leaning in that direction
because at the moment, all the compression is happening in a Yamaha 02R
- which is OK, but the more I use outboard pres and compressors, the
less I like the pres and compressors in the 02R.

A unit like the Edax Audio Lab Max 800 looks suitable, but it would be
nice to talk to someone who already has one. The unit is also pretty
close to my budget's elastic limit!

Chris W


Given its list price it would be an expensive mistake but it does seem
to do a lot for the money. I think I would be tempted to hire one for a
week to find out if it were right for me.

Good Luck

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Thompson-Bell]

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)
Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.

If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.

I disagree. The 24 bit noise floor is not the limiting factor.

Cheers

Ian

[hank alrich]

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)
Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance

Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.

If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.

I disagree. The 24 bit noise floor is not the limiting factor.

I agree: the noise floor is so far below even a drastically reduced peak
level that it can be disregarded.

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system. I currently leave about 20 dB headroom
when tracking, having finally gotten over my analog habits, and I am far
more happy with my digital recordings than ever before.

In the pressure of live tracking it is far more likely that one will
screw-up the compression and have no way to undo it later. Further, a
bunch of comps in a single rack space at the budget he has are not going
to be better comps than those in the Yammie.

If one needed to push the levels, peak limiters would be far more
sensible than compressors. But in this case, there is no point in
pushing the levels. There is nothing to gain and lots to lose.

Much heavier hitters than I suggest what I am suggesting:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind...t/15038/17098/

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Moshe Goldfarb.]

On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:59:25 -0700, hank alrich wrote:


The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system.

I'll bet Linda Ronstadt or Ethel Merman could come close

I agree with you though....


--
Moshe Goldfarb

[Ian Thompson-Bell]

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)
Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance
Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.
If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.
I disagree. The 24 bit noise floor is not the limiting factor.

I agree: the noise floor is so far below even a drastically reduced peak
level that it can be disregarded.


Precisely. The problem is the noise floor of the analog system preceding it.

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system. I currently leave about 20 dB headroom
when tracking, having finally gotten over my analog habits, and I am far
more happy with my digital recordings than ever before.


Agree, the noise floor of the analogue system is the problem.

In the pressure of live tracking it is far more likely that one will
screw-up the compression and have no way to undo it later. Further, a
bunch of comps in a single rack space at the budget he has are not going
to be better comps than those in the Yammie.


If you don't use compression then either the S/N ratio of the analogue
system is compromised on quiet passages or its headroom is compromised
on load ones.

If one needed to push the levels, peak limiters would be far more
sensible than compressors. But in this case, there is no point in
pushing the levels. There is nothing to gain and lots to lose.


I disagree. The noise floor of the analogue system is the limiting
factor and so you need to keep as far above it as you can.


Cheers

Ian

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:22:27 -0400, "Moshe Goldfarb."
wrote:

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system.

I'll bet Linda Ronstadt or Ethel Merman could come close

Actually, I bet they couldn't. Have you got any numbers?

[hank alrich]

Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)
Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance
Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with built
in compressors.
If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.
I disagree. The 24 bit noise floor is not the limiting factor.

I agree: the noise floor is so far below even a drastically reduced peak
level that it can be disregarded.


Precisely. The problem is the noise floor of the analog system preceding it.

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system. I currently leave about 20 dB headroom
when tracking, having finally gotten over my analog habits, and I am far
more happy with my digital recordings than ever before.


Agree, the noise floor of the analogue system is the problem.

In the pressure of live tracking it is far more likely that one will
screw-up the compression and have no way to undo it later. Further, a
bunch of comps in a single rack space at the budget he has are not going
to be better comps than those in the Yammie.


If you don't use compression then either the S/N ratio of the analogue
system is compromised on quiet passages or its headroom is compromised
on load ones.

If one needed to push the levels, peak limiters would be far more
sensible than compressors. But in this case, there is no point in
pushing the levels. There is nothing to gain and lots to lose.


I disagree. The noise floor of the analogue system is the limiting
factor and so you need to keep as far above it as you can.

If the only analog component upstream is the mic pre, and if that's the
noise source, the mic pre is seriously compromised. It's certainly not a
problem with anything decent, and I don't mean it has to be be Great
River or Millennia class.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Les Cargill]

Chel van Gennip wrote:
Laurence Payne schreef:
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:22:27 -0400, "Moshe Goldfarb."
wrote:

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic
range
available in a 24 bit system.
I'll bet Linda Ronstadt or Ethel Merman could come close

Actually, I bet they couldn't. Have you got any numbers?

The noise floor of good microphones is at about 10dB. Breathing, and I
assume most singers do, will give you 15-25dB, or more at short
distance. The peaks of a professional opera singer are 110-120dB at
short distance. That gives you a dynamic range of about 16 bits worst case.

Close miking an opera singer doesn't seem very natural to me.


Seems dangerous, too The additional 8 bits gives you 48
dB of headroom to play with. Not a bad thing at all - pretty
much a guarantee of "no overs".

--
Les Cargill

[genericaudioperson]

Millennia Media. If you buy enough channels, it will still be over
your per-channel budget. But it will be in range. And then you will
have without question a top-quality preamp setup.

http://www.mil-media.com/hv-3d.html

[Ray Thomas[_2_]]

"Ian Thompson-Bell" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:

Chris Whealy wrote:
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
Chris Whealy wrote:
I'm looking for a single unit 8 channel mic pre to replace an
existing unit (used for vocals)
Do you really need 8 channels just for vocals??

Cheers

Ian
Yes - 8 singers, individual mics, live performance
Wow. OK, if it is live then I would suggest you look for one with
built
in compressors.
If he will be feeding a 24 bit system the compressors are unnecessary.
I disagree. The 24 bit noise floor is not the limiting factor.

I agree: the noise floor is so far below even a drastically reduced peak
level that it can be disregarded.


Precisely. The problem is the noise floor of the analog system preceding
it.

The dynamic range of the vocals will come nowhere near the dynamic range
available in a 24 bit system. I currently leave about 20 dB headroom
when tracking, having finally gotten over my analog habits, and I am far
more happy with my digital recordings than ever before.


Agree, the noise floor of the analogue system is the problem.

In the pressure of live tracking it is far more likely that one will
screw-up the compression and have no way to undo it later. Further, a
bunch of comps in a single rack space at the budget he has are not going
to be better comps than those in the Yammie.


If you don't use compression then either the S/N ratio of the analogue
system is compromised on quiet passages or its headroom is compromised on
load ones.

If one needed to push the levels, peak limiters would be far more
sensible than compressors. But in this case, there is no point in
pushing the levels. There is nothing to gain and lots to lose.


I disagree. The noise floor of the analogue system is the limiting factor
and so you need to keep as far above it as you can.


Cheers

Ian

This is definitely worth investigating...do a google search for reviews on
Gearslutz, etc and you'll see it has earned much respect:
http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm and
http://www.davelectronics.com/index.htm

Ray