[James[_7_]]

I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Thanks

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

James wrote:
I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Thanks

Melodyne will do it.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:40:00 -0700 (PDT), James
wrote:

I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Is the track at a constant tempo but just not quite the right one?
That's a job for a simple timestretch. I think Soundforge has one. It
will sound pretty good for small adjustments, absolutely terrible if
you try to stretch too far :-)

Or does the track have sloppy tempo and you want to align it with e.g.
a mechanical drum beat?

[coreybenson]

On Oct 8, 11:40 am, James wrote:
I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Thanks

Sonar 6 Professional added this feature. It's supposedly even more
robust in the newest version (8), and since you're already a Cakewalk
user, it may make sense to look at the upgrade path.

Corey
http://www.curbsideproductions.com/

[James[_7_]]

On Oct 8, 3:10*pm, Laurence Payne wrote:

Is the track at a constant tempo but just not quite the right one?
That's a job for a simple timestretch. *I think Soundforge has one. It
will sound pretty good for small adjustments, absolutely terrible if
you try to stretch too far *:-)

Or does the track have sloppy tempo and you want to align it with e.g.
a mechanical drum beat?


I wouldn't call the tempo sloppy, but it drifts just a tad so that no
metronome marking will be exactly on the beat throughout the track,
even using incremental adustments. The best I've been able to do is
have it be off by no more than about a half beat either in front or
behind as it drifts over the duration of the track. I suppose I could
take the track, determine where it starts to get off, stretch/squeeze
part of it, compare, adjust etc.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 19:47:33 -0700 (PDT), James
wrote:

Or does the track have sloppy tempo and you want to align it with e.g.
a mechanical drum beat?


I wouldn't call the tempo sloppy, but it drifts just a tad so that no
metronome marking will be exactly on the beat throughout the track,
even using incremental adustments. The best I've been able to do is
have it be off by no more than about a half beat either in front or
behind as it drifts over the duration of the track. I suppose I could
take the track, determine where it starts to get off, stretch/squeeze
part of it, compare, adjust etc.

OK, so it's a BIT sloppy :-)

First question - does it matter? Live performances can be like that.
It can let the music breathe, which is good. It can be sloppy playing
- a simple inability to hold the beat - which is bad.

If it sounds OK by itself, what's your reason for wanting to align it
to a strict beat? Are you hoping to add rhythm tracks in a sequencer?
It may sound better if you stretch the tempo map rather than messing
with the audio. Cubase 4 has a tool that does this easily, I'm sure
the other high-end DAW programs do too.

[Chris Whealy]

James wrote:
I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Thanks

I assume this is a live performance you're talking about here?
And I further assume that other than the tempo variations, there is
nothing else you want to change with the recording?

Can I then ask why you think it is so important that a live performance
be straight-jacketed into an exact tempo?
All live performances have some ebb and flow in the tempo - this is a
natural consequence of it be performed by humans.

Though I haven't heard the track, I'd say leave the recording alone and
adjust the tempo in Cakewalk to fit the natural changes in the performance.

Failing that, buy Melodyne Studio and time shift it there.

£0.025

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Scott Dorsey]

James wrote:
I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Either one will do. Just cut and paste by hand until it lines up a bit
better with the grid.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Doof]

On Oct 8, 5:40*pm, James wrote:
I've got an audio track that doesn't fit any exact tempo. Is there an
app that will adjust it just a hair here and there to make it conform
to a specific tempo? The tools I have now are Cakewalk Home Studio 2
and Soundforge 5.

Thanks

You could try 'abletonising' it.

Load the audio into a clip slot in ableton, and set the 'warp'
function to 'complex'.

Ableton will then warp it 'in time'. It's not like doing it on the
'beat' function which is for rigid tempos, so should work.

Trouble is, a) you'd have to buy ableton, and b) as has been said,
doing this at all is likely to rob the recording of it's essential
'life'.

I've always found it amazing how counter intuitive this is. I've tried
it many times, and manually or otherwise tightening up sloppy timing
always results in a worse product than before. You think, 'this'll
sound even better if I can just fix this bit here...and just doing
this bit here...and...oh.

It sounds terrible.

Cheers,
Doof.

[James[_7_]]

On Oct 9, 4:43*am, Chris Whealy wrote:

I assume this is a live performance you're talking about here?


No, a studio track.


Can I then ask why you think it is so important that a live performance
be straight-jacketed into an exact tempo?


I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in order
to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it needs to be
at a specific tempo.

[Jos Geluk]

James schreef:

Can I then ask why you think it is so important that a live performance
be straight-jacketed into an exact tempo?


I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in order
to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it needs to be
at a specific tempo.

In that case, I would use the time-warp function of the DAW software to
align the bars/beats to the audio, not the other way around.

Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in order
to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it needs to be
at a specific tempo.

Leave the audio alone, make the MIDI tempo map fit it. See my
previous reply.

[James[_7_]]

On Oct 11, 5:05 am, Laurence Payne wrote:

I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in order
to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it needs to be
at a specific tempo.

Leave the audio alone, make the MIDI tempo map fit it. See my
previous reply.


By "Tempo Map" is that a specific function or are you basically
referring to the act of tweaking the midi tempo - make it be 83 for X-
bars, 85 for x-bars and so on to make it line up with the audio? I.e.
stretching and squeezing the midi instead of the audio? Part of the
problem with that is doing it precisely. I don't seem to be able to
use the metronome function with the softsynth I'm using to produce
midi sounds.

I've already kludged together the audio to fit close enough but it's
actually not imperative that the audio "flow" well on the project
track, since the immediate goal is to produce readable parts. For now,
the audio is simply a guide. Then I can record the vocal & horn parts
to the unmolested track in another project file.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 04:01:12 -0700 (PDT), James
wrote:

I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in order
to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it needs to be
at a specific tempo.

Leave the audio alone, make the MIDI tempo map fit it. See my
previous reply.


By "Tempo Map" is that a specific function or are you basically
referring to the act of tweaking the midi tempo - make it be 83 for X-
bars, 85 for x-bars and so on to make it line up with the audio? I.e.
stretching and squeezing the midi instead of the audio? Part of the
problem with that is doing it precisely. I don't seem to be able to
use the metronome function with the softsynth I'm using to produce
midi sounds.

I mean both. What you describe is the result - the better sequencers
have tools and functions to make it easy.


I've already kludged together the audio to fit close enough but it's
actually not imperative that the audio "flow" well on the project
track, since the immediate goal is to produce readable parts. For now,
the audio is simply a guide. Then I can record the vocal & horn parts
to the unmolested track in another project file.

If you're constructing the arrangements by playing along with the
audio track using MIDI sounds you'll find it much easier to play good
stuff if the audio groove remains unmolested! Unless you play in a
thoroughly stilted and unmusical fashion there's going to be a lot of
editing needed to produce a playable score. You might get a better
result by composing without worrying what the notation looks like
then, having done the hard bit - deciding WHAT the arrangement is - do
the easy bit separately - transcribe it as notation.

I think advanced sequencers offer audio quantisation as well as MIDI
quantisation. But if you had one that did that, I guess you'd have
found it in the manual?

[[email protected]]

On 2008-10-11 said:
I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in
order to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it
needs to be at a specific tempo.
Leave the audio alone, make the MIDI tempo map fit it. See my
previous reply.

Usually I ignore these threads, but I have to comment here.

EVen lowly cakewalk for dos had a "fit to time" function for
just such situations. I've used it more than once to line
stuff up. IF your sequencerdoesn't have something like this
you need a better sequencer.




Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the
Historical review of Pennsylvania

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

wrote:
On 2008-10-11 said:
I'm doing a project where I'm adding horns and backing vocals to an
existing track. I'm working the parts out in midi first and in
order to have the resulting parts be readable when printed, it
needs to be at a specific tempo.
Leave the audio alone, make the MIDI tempo map fit it. See my
previous reply.

Usually I ignore these threads, but I have to comment here.

EVen lowly cakewalk for dos had a "fit to time" function for
just such situations. I've used it more than once to line
stuff up. IF your sequencerdoesn't have something like this
you need a better sequencer.


It's kind of an asswhip to do it that way. Most modern sequencers have
"liquid time" functions where you can just drag the bar to a new
location (looking and listening to the audio track) and the software
does the rest. I use it in Nuendo sometimes to do exactly what the OP is
talking about. Even ProTools has it. I understand that there are even
automated ways of doing this, although I don't trust them and insist on
being an old fuddy duddy and doing it by hand :-)

[James[_7_]]

On Oct 11, 7:53*am, Laurence Payne wrote:

I think advanced sequencers offer audio quantisation as well as MIDI
quantisation. *But if you had one that did that, I guess you'd have
found it in the manual?


Sure, it has a quantize function but even so you have to be in the
ballpark for it to work. It doesn't have any way of knowing that notes
are half a measure or more off from where they're supposed to be, it
would just make a mess.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:42:44 -0700 (PDT), James
wrote:

I think advanced sequencers offer audio quantisation as well as MIDI
quantisation. *But if you had one that did that, I guess you'd have
found it in the manual?


Sure, it has a quantize function but even so you have to be in the
ballpark for it to work. It doesn't have any way of knowing that notes
are half a measure or more off from where they're supposed to be, it
would just make a mess.

I meant the audio quantisation, where you tell it where the beats are
and it stretches the audio into alignment. Not that I've found such
tools sound very nice, particularly on a full mix.

[James[_7_]]

On Oct 11, 9:26*pm, Laurence Payne wrote:

Sure, it has a quantize function but even so you have to be in the
ballpark for it to work. It doesn't have any way of knowing that notes
are half a measure or more off from where they're supposed to be, it
would just make a mess.

I meant the audio quantisation, where you tell it where the beats are
and it stretches the audio into alignment. *Not that I've found such
tools sound very nice, particularly on a full mix.


Well, that was essentially my original question, if there is such a
thing. As far as I can tell this version of Cakewalk doesn't have
anything that sophisticated.

What I ended up doing was stretching/squeezing the track in Soundforge
and got it to where it's close enough. There are a few artifacts in
the sound but not enough to get in the way of what I'm doing. It
wasn't off so much that it really makes a big difference in the audio
but enough so that midi parts created to the original audio couldn't
be printed usefully.

Now when I play the live horns and do the vocals I can just self-
compensate to the track. I don't think a human could tell the track is
off at all, it's only obvious when you compare it to the exactness of
the software environment.