[philicorda[_6_]]

I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting
the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.)
Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound
weird or quiet.

With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different
too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what
I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed,
not just the overall phase.

I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable
phase control and are meant for this kind of thing.

So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in
the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the
same thing?

[Scott Dorsey]

philicorda wrote:
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting
the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.)
Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound
weird or quiet.

Life is like that. The thing is, if the comb filtering is due entirely
to delay, a delay will fix it. If it's due to something else, it won't.

With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different
too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what
I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed,
not just the overall phase.

Yes, and there are also plenty of frequencies being added by the amp too,
that just weren't in the DI feed.

I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable
phase control and are meant for this kind of thing.

They are all-pass networks. For the most part, they are intended for use
in the analogue tape world or in the live world where you can't easily do
any delay.

So I am not sure if it will do what you want, but it's worth trying.

So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in
the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the
same thing?

It is frequency dependant... it is adding "group delay" which varies by
frequency. A plugin that is an "all-pass filter" will do the same thing,
if it exists. You could make one in Matlab easily.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul Stamler]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting
the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.)
Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound
weird or quiet.

With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different
too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what
I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed,
not just the overall phase.

It has; the speaker has a frequency-dependent delay due to its low-frequency
rolloff, along with a frequency-independent delay from the space between the
cone and the mic.

I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable
phase control and are meant for this kind of thing.

So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in
the DAW? Is is frequency dependent?

Yep. See above. This was the principle reason the IBP was designed. It
works, too.

Are there any plugins that do the same thing?

Not to my knowledge.

Peace,
Paul

[Les Cargill]

philicorda wrote:
I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By shifting
the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up with.)
Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some notes sound
weird or quiet.

With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different
too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see what
I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has changed,
not just the overall phase.

I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an adjustable
phase control and are meant for this kind of thing.

So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time in
the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do the
same thing?



FWIW, I have had pretty cool luck deconvolving the mic signal against
the direct signal, and looking for the bit-position of the biggest
spike in the deconvolution signature for the amount to delay things
by. This only when it's very difficult to understand spikes.

The deconvolver I've used is Voxengo. Use short samples.

--
Les Cargill

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

philicorda wrote:

I quite often take a DI as well as a mic when recording electric bass.
I normally delay the DI a bit so it's in phase with the mic. (By
shifting the track in the DAW and looking for a big peak to line up
with.) Sometimes there seems to be no delay that is right, and some
notes sound weird or quiet.

With some amps, the waveforms of the mic and DI look really different
too, even if they don't sound as different as they look, if you see
what I mean. It's as though the phase of different frequencies has
changed, not just the overall phase.

I've seen these devices like the Little Labs IPB that have an
adjustable phase control and are meant for this kind of thing.

So... what is different about using this than shifting the DI in time
in the DAW? Is is frequency dependent? Are there any plugins that do
the same thing?

Audition has a graphic phase shifter (x), reportedly somewhat diminished in
usability in 3.0 compared to 2.0 - that reduction of usability caused some
quite angry user reports, you might want to check this out on the adobe
audition support board that Adobe runs. You can use nntp-access via
news://adobeforums.com as soon as you have registred for an account, it may
be that someone came up with a trick for using the A2 phase shifiter with A3
..... it may also be that the downloadable demo will do what you need done,
just pretend that it is stereo track. I can't tell you how A3 is in that
respect compared to A2 - yet.

(x) yes, you free hand draw the phase difference you want between channels.
A spectral phase view is also avaiable that can tell you what's wrong, if
what you see is wrong, real rich stereo looks very real and rich in it ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Paul Stamler wrote:

Are there any plugins that do the same thing?

Not to my knowledge.

Audition. Check the demo, they reportedly made this part of it a wee bit
less usable from 2.0 to 3.0 and got some angry user reports, seems like they
thought nobody was using that part of it .... O;-) ... never did btw. but it
may be just what Philicorda needs.

Peace,
Paul

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Federico]

1) When you timeshift reverse the phase of one of the channels so you can
hear easily where the weird things are.
2) The DI and the Amp sound MUST be different, otherwise it doesn't make
sense recording both :-)
F.

[[email protected]]

Are there any plugins that do the *same thing?

Not to my knowledge.




I use the free TritoneDigital phase plugin a lot. Seems to work well
and is probably the easiest way to do it.

http://www.tritonedigital.com/produc...a0de3baa7a62bc

[Mark]

On Oct 10, 9:33*am, "
wrote:
Are there any plugins that do the *same thing?

Not to my knowledge.

I use the free TritoneDigital phase plugin a lot. *Seems to work well
and is probably the easiest way to do it.

http://www.tritonedigital.com/produc...&products_id=3....

the comb filtering will be worst when the two combined signals are
equal level...if you set one signal 6dB less than the other, the comb
filtering will be much reduced.

Mark

[philicorda[_6_]]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 06:33:18 -0700, wrote:

Are there any plugins that do the Â*same thing?

Not to my knowledge.




I use the free TritoneDigital phase plugin a lot. Seems to work well
and is probably the easiest way to do it.

http://www.tritonedigital.com/product_info.php?
cPath=25&products_id=33&osCsid=1dd2aac4f62efdc4dda 0de3baa7a62bc

Thanks for all the replies. I have an idea of what is going on now.
This 'PhaseTone' plugin looks like just the thing too.