[[email protected]]

Sound Card - 2-Channel PCI type, Need Recommendation on Good Models
================================================== ====

I want to convert some Analog songs (recorded from LPs and EPs to
Cassette
Tapes) to WAV format using a PCI type 2-Channel Sound Card and
Total
Recorder software and need recommendation on some good quality
Sound Card
(Retail price less than US $ 100 and software's GUI not too
complicated)

Since the Recording Level Control will be adjusted at Total Recorder's
GUI and
the Analog to Digital Conversion will also be done by this software's
Virtual Sound
Card, so the hooked-up Sound Card role will be limited (that is what
I think -
How things will work, but am not 100% sure)


Thanks in anticipation


Frank

[Phil W]

maildrop999:


Sound Card - 2-Channel PCI type, Need Recommendation on Good Models
================================================== ====

I want to convert some Analog songs (recorded from LPs and EPs to
Cassette
Tapes) to WAV format using a PCI type 2-Channel Sound Card and
Total
Recorder software and need recommendation on some good quality
Sound Card
(Retail price less than US $ 100 and software's GUI not too
complicated)

Standard suggestion: M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
- better converters than any "consumer" soundcard
- good drivers
- not expensive

Since the Recording Level Control will be adjusted at
Total Recorder's GUI

No! The recording level should be the input level (to the soundcard). That
means, you need to check the input level to your soundcard. This is
determined by the output volume of your "source signal" (tape in this case).
Digital audio clips and distorts above 0 dB, so the input level should
ALWAYS stay below this value. Try to get close to 0, but leave a little
"headroom" (try to have peaks at about -3 to -5 dB or even a bit lower). Use
the onscreen mixer for the Delta card to check the input level meter.
You can make the recorded material louder in the computer in
post-processing - (e.g. normalize to -0,2 dB).

and the Analog to Digital
Conversion will also be done by this software's
Virtual Sound Card,

Interesting thoughts! ;-) Unfortunately, reality looks a little different.
The incoming signal is converted on the soundcard - i.e. before it reaches
any software on the computer. If you overload the soundcard´s input, it´s
already too late. Sonic information above 0 dB get´s lost and you may get
digital distortion (quite unpleasantly sounding to the human ear). If this
happens, lower the input volume to the soundcard and repeat the recording.

AFTER you have recorded a non-clipping audio file, you can do the following
stuff to "clean it up" a little:
might be necessary to "select all" before the following functions affect the
complete file!
1) remove DC offset
2) normalize to -0,2 dB
3) cut off unnecessary "pre-roll" before (leave at least 300 msec. before
the signal starts) and "post-roll" after each single track
4) apply *short* fade-in / fade-out to avoid "clicks" or "crackles" on
playback, when tracks start or end

Regard this technical necessities to get good files, you can burn to audio
CDs without having to worry, if it might cause errors on playback devices.

so the hooked-up Sound Card role will be limited
(that is what I think -
How things will work, but am not 100% sure)

Limited, but yet more important, than you think. Once, you have a clean
recording on the computer, the soundcard´s role is limited to its playback
functions. The important part is, when audio enters the computer.

As for recording softwa try Audacity. It´s free and better suited to
process the recording afterwards than "Total Recorder" seems to be.
Whatever you use, record to ".WAV (PCM uncompressed) / 16 bit / 44,1 kHz
samplerate / stereo" - this is "audio CD quality" and therefore requires no
conversion to burn the files to CD.
If you wish to have MP3s, record to WAV anyway and encode MP3s from the WAV
files.
A great, yet small and very easy-to-use freeware program for MP3
encoding/decoding (to .WAV) is:
http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-lamedrop.php
- requires no installation, just unzip and run "lamedrop3.exe"
- settings for encoding quality of MP3 can be accessed by right-clicking the
program window
- just drag´n´drop a .WAV file (or several at once) onto the program window
to encode to MP3

Audacity can also encode/decode MP3 files, but I find "lameDrop" nicer.


Phil

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

I want to convert some Analog songs (recorded from LPs and EPs to Cassette
Tapes) to WAV format using a PCI type 2-Channel Sound Card and Total
Recorder software and need recommendation on some good quality Sound Card
(Retail price less than US $ 100 and software's GUI not too complicated)

Since the Recording Level Control will be adjusted at Total Recorder's GUI and
the Analog to Digital Conversion will also be done by this software's Virtual Sound
Card, so the hooked-up Sound Card role will be limited (that is what I think -
How things will work, but am not 100% sure)

Is there a socket on the back of your computer labelled "Line In"?
That will do just fine. The trick is using it right.

Your big (and it's a common one) misapprehension is that you can
adjust recording level inside the computer. Think of the sound card
as a gateway with a height restriction. Anything that's too tall to
fit just gets chopped off, and the chopping doesn't sound good! Once
through the gate you can stretch it again, but the head's still
missing and will never come back.

Your most useful tool will be a small mixer, allowing you to interface
an optimum level into yout computer.

Vinyl is noisy. Cassette tape is noisy in a different way. The
technical quality of your cassette recordings is probably pretty bad -
but music has a habit of shining through such imperfections and still
being enjoyable to listen to :-) I would advise you NOT to use any
noise-reduction software, or at least only to experiment on a copy of
your recording. You can get appealing results from cheap NR programs,
but tend to realise in the longer term that you'be thrown away a lot
of music too. And you can't get it back, any more than you can
restore a signal that was "chopped" when entering your computer.

If your computer really doesn't have a Line In, ask around for an old
Soundblaster Live! card. But I bet it does.

[Richard Crowley]

Do you have no sound card functionality at all now?
If you do have a line in (commonly color coded lime
green) have you tried it? Casual recording from LPs
and audio compact cassettes hardly takes a premium
sound card.

Do you have an RIAA phono preamp? You cannot
connect a turntable directly to a line input (or even to
a mic input).

Level setting is partly done in the analog domain, it is
not all a matter of software settings.

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the suggestions. Just 2 other Questions

1 I have a tape deck (Tascam, Model 112), a higher-end model, which
has a knob on the front marked: OUTPUT. I assume that it controls
the
output level of 'Line-Out' jacks at the back. It does not have
seperate
controls for Left and Right Channels.. Question is, if I use this
control,
thereby by-passing the 'Record Level' control of Software's GUI,
will the
recording quality suffer ?


2 I have another tape deck, which has Head Phone Jack plus a
knob
to change the Sound Level. Question is, if I use this Jack for
getting the
Line-Out from the Tape Deck and feed it to the Sound Card's Line-
In,
will the sound quality be inferior to the Line-Out Jacks of Tape
Deck ?


---------------------------------------------

Thanks for the suggestions of Keeping the Original *WAV format
file as master and then do the conversion, if and when needed. For
50+
files what I had created for testing the software, I had used this
technique
and then used EASY CD-DA Extractor software for converting to MP3
format.


-----------------------------------------------

I am aware of the fact that the Line-Out from a turn-table can not be
fed directly to the Sound Card's Line-In and that one needs a
Pre-amplifier. I had recorded 'Want List' songs from the LPs /
45s
to Chrome-tapes, using a fairly high end tape deck. I used Dolby B
during recording (Dolby C and S, are totally worthless codes). For
Playback, I don't use any Noise Reduction option



---------------------------------------

Comments and feed-back will be much appreciated.


Frank

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Phil W wrote:

maildrop999:


Sound Card - 2-Channel PCI type, Need Recommendation on Good Models
================================================== ====

I want to convert some Analog songs (recorded from LPs and EPs to
Cassette
Tapes) to WAV format using a PCI type 2-Channel Sound Card and
Total
Recorder software and need recommendation on some good quality
Sound Card
(Retail price less than US $ 100 and software's GUI not too
complicated)

Standard suggestion: M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
- better converters than any "consumer" soundcard
- good drivers
- not expensive

Since the Recording Level Control will be adjusted at
Total Recorder's GUI

No! The recording level should be the input level (to the soundcard). That
means, you need to check the input level to your soundcard. This is
determined by the output volume of your "source signal" (tape in this case).
Digital audio clips and distorts above 0 dB, so the input level should
ALWAYS stay below this value. Try to get close to 0, but leave a little
"headroom" (try to have peaks at about -3 to -5 dB or even a bit lower). Use
the onscreen mixer for the Delta card to check the input level meter.
You can make the recorded material louder in the computer in
post-processing - (e.g. normalize to -0,2 dB).

and the Analog to Digital
Conversion will also be done by this software's
Virtual Sound Card,

Interesting thoughts! ;-) Unfortunately, reality looks a little different..
The incoming signal is converted on the soundcard - i.e. before it reaches
any software on the computer. If you overload the soundcard�s input, it�s
already too late. Sonic information above 0 dB get�s lost and you may get
digital distortion (quite unpleasantly sounding to the human ear). If this
happens, lower the input volume to the soundcard and repeat the recording..

AFTER you have recorded a non-clipping audio file, you can do the following
stuff to "clean it up" a little:
might be necessary to "select all" before the following functions affect the
complete file!
1) remove DC offset
2) normalize to -0,2 dB
3) cut off unnecessary "pre-roll" before (leave at least 300 msec. before
the signal starts) and "post-roll" after each single track
4) apply *short* fade-in / fade-out to avoid "clicks" or "crackles" on
playback, when tracks start or end

Regard this technical necessities to get good files, you can burn to audio
CDs without having to worry, if it might cause errors on playback devices..

so the hooked-up Sound Card role will be limited
(that is what I think -
How things will work, but am not 100% sure)

Limited, but yet more important, than you think. Once, you have a clean
recording on the computer, the soundcard�s role is limited to its playback
functions. The important part is, when audio enters the computer.

As for recording softwa try Audacity. It�s free and better suited to
process the recording afterwards than "Total Recorder" seems to be.
Whatever you use, record to ".WAV (PCM uncompressed) / 16 bit / 44,1 kHz
samplerate / stereo" - this is "audio CD quality" and therefore requires no
conversion to burn the files to CD.
If you wish to have MP3s, record to WAV anyway and encode MP3s from the WAV
files.
A great, yet small and very easy-to-use freeware program for MP3
encoding/decoding (to .WAV) is:
http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-lamedrop.php
- requires no installation, just unzip and run "lamedrop3.exe"
- settings for encoding quality of MP3 can be accessed by right-clicking the
program window
- just drag�n�drop a .WAV file (or several at once) onto the program window
to encode to MP3

Audacity can also encode/decode MP3 files, but I find "lameDrop" nicer.


Phil

[Richard Crowley]

wrote ...
Thanks for the suggestions. Just 2 other Questions

1 I have a tape deck (Tascam, Model 112), a higher-end model,
which has a knob on the front marked: OUTPUT. I assume that
it controls the output level of 'Line-Out' jacks at the back. It does
not have seperate controls for Left and Right Channels..
Question is, if I use this control, thereby by-passing the 'Record
Level' control of Software's GUI, will the recording quality suffer ?

The knob does NOT 'bypass" the software record level control,
so the question is moot. BOTH the hardware and software
controls affect the ultimate level.

2 I have another tape deck, which has Head Phone Jack plus a
knob to change the Sound Level. Question is, if I use this Jack
for getting the Line-Out from the Tape Deck and feed it to the
Sound Card's Line-In, will the sound quality be inferior to the
Line-Out Jacks of Tape Deck ?

It is likely (but not absolute) that the headphone output is not as
good as the main line-level output. It doesn't have anything to do
with sound-level knobs.

I am aware of the fact that the Line-Out from a turn-table

The output from a turntable is not "Line-Out" unless it has a
built-in RIAA preamp. It is likely "Phono-Out". The phrase
"Line Out" has a specific technical definition, and mis-using
it will confuse others.

can not be fed directly to the Sound Card's Line-In and
that one needs a Pre-amplifier.

Or more precisely, the phono-cartridge output from a turn-
table must be amplified with an RIAA phono preamp to
boost it up to "line-level" to interface with other equipment
such as cassette recorders or computer sound inputs, etc.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

1 I have a tape deck (Tascam, Model 112), a higher-end model, which
has a knob on the front marked: OUTPUT. I assume that it controls
the
output level of 'Line-Out' jacks at the back. It does not have
seperate
controls for Left and Right Channels.. Question is, if I use this
control,
thereby by-passing the 'Record Level' control of Software's GUI,
will the
recording quality suffer ?

This control sounds as if it will be very useful in helping you
present the right level to your soundcard's input. But I think you
haven't understood one important fact. Any software control on your
computer, whether in the soundcard's control applet or in a recording
program is most unlikely to me controlling the input sensitivity of
the soundcard. YOU have to feed the right level in. It can cut the
level of an overloaded input - but it can't remove the overload
distortion. It may be able to boost a weak input - but it can't
correct the lousy signal/noise ratio.


2 I have another tape deck, which has Head Phone Jack plus a
knob
to change the Sound Level. Question is, if I use this Jack for
getting the
Line-Out from the Tape Deck and feed it to the Sound Card's Line-
In,
will the sound quality be inferior to the Line-Out Jacks of Tape
Deck ?

This isn't a Line Out, it's a Headphone Out. The stock answer is
that, even if you turn it down to approximate Line level it will sound
inferior. However, modern electronics are very quiet and modern
inputs are very forgiving. Try. (Of course, as it's on a tape
machine, it isn't going to be all that modern :-)


I am aware of the fact that the Line-Out from a turn-table can not be
fed directly to the Sound Card's Line-In and that one needs a
Pre-amplifier. I had recorded 'Want List' songs from the LPs /
45s
to Chrome-tapes, using a fairly high end tape deck. I used Dolby B
during recording (Dolby C and S, are totally worthless codes). For
Playback, I don't use any Noise Reduction option

If there IS a Line Out on a turntable, it will be fine. But I bet
there isn't - more likely a Phono Out.

If you get your best results by recording with Dolby B but playing
back without (and I symphathise, sometimes I find this the easiest way
of getting something listenable off an old cassette) I'm afraid you're
just demonstrating how crap the cassette system is :-) I hope you
didn't throw the vinly away - yo can do better direct to computer.