Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod

Rodney St-Pierre wrote:
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Try the TC Electronic M300.


--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

Any suggestions?

The Boss VF1 has a SPDIF out, only 44.1k, though.


Scott Fraser

"Rodney St-Pierre" wrote in message
news
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Lexicon MPX110

Why is the "cheapest" what you want, when the "best" for a given price range
without SPDIF might sound much better? Unless your A/Ds are utter crap (which
hardly any are these days), or for some reason you have no A/D capability at
all, I don't see why cheapness should ever be your yardstick...


Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

Since the reverb unit will be used mostly for adding 'verb in the headphones
to monitor while tracking, I don't need 'the best'. I will most likely be
using a reverb plugin (the SIR impulse reverb is free and very nice
sounding). It has to be digital out because my soundcard (M-Audio Firewire
310) also no-latency direct monitoring of effects through the digital in.
Otherwise, I would agree that generally the 'best sound' for a a certain
price range is the best way to buy.

rod


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Spencer"
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Cheapest reverb unit with SPDIF digital out ?


Why is the "cheapest" what you want, when the "best" for a given price
range
without SPDIF might sound much better? Unless your A/Ds are utter crap
(which
hardly any are these days), or for some reason you have no A/D capability
at
all, I don't see why cheapness should ever be your yardstick...


Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknownunknown

You will have digital clocking problems if you're trying to use both the
reverb and your sound card as clock master.

On the other hand, the clock in the digital reverb may not be as good as the
one in your sound card.

Truth is, you really want a digital reverb with a SPDIF out AND a word clock
connection... at least ideally.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now available: new Particle Salad CD "The Track Inside."

See http://www.particlesalad.com for more info.


"Rodney St-Pierre" wrote in message
news
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod

TC Electronic M300 is very good and fairly cheap.


"Rodney St-Pierre" skrev i en meddelelse
news
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod

in article , EricK at
wrote on 8/28/04 11:57 PM:

Rodney St-Pierre wrote:
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Try the TC Electronic M300.

Have they FIXED this thing yet?
I bought it early on, on the basis merely of it being TC... and while it's
nifty, has some wonderful sounds in there and I really only expected a
tweaked different flavor of the LEXICON 100, the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

in article , Rodney
St-Pierre at wrote on 8/28/04 10:14 PM:

Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod



The 300 DOES have one neat feature that might well be usefull as a pass-thru
HP mix item... it has 2 sections (essentially a REVERBS/ROOMS section and a
DELAYS/CHORUS/FX section) that can run in parallel (different console sends
for each but both end up on the main outputs) or in series (pass-thru or
single-send to the whole mess). Don't know if LEXI did anything like this
for the 110 (descendant of the 100)

in article , EricK at
wrote on 8/28/04 11:57 PM:

Rodney St-Pierre wrote:
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Try the TC Electronic M300.

Have they FIXED this thing yet?
I bought it early on, on the basis merely of it being TC... and while it's
nifty, has some wonderful sounds in there and I really only expected a
tweaked different flavor of the LEXICON 100, the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

JoVee wrote:
in article , EricK at
wrote on 8/28/04 11:57 PM:

Rodney St-Pierre wrote:
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Try the TC Electronic M300.

Have they FIXED this thing yet?
I bought it early on, on the basis merely of it being TC... and while it's
nifty, has some wonderful sounds in there and I really only expected a
tweaked different flavor of the LEXICON 100, the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.


Are you talking about effects units manufacturers not including simple
programs in the presets? Most of the Lexicons have all kinds of wacky
stuff like the WhizbangManifoldDiscombobulatorPlanetoid but when you want
a simple delay---nowhere to be seen. I often want a simple delay---no
ping-ponging, chorusing, or anything. Just a simple delay with parameters
like regeneration and length.

Because if that's what you are annoyed with---I agree.

Rob R.

In article writes:

Try the TC Electronic M300.


the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.

And just what is the problem of which you speak?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

in article , Rob Reedijk at
wrote on 8/30/04 12:12 PM:

JoVee wrote:
in article , EricK at
wrote on 8/28/04 11:57 PM:

Rodney St-Pierre wrote:
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

Try the TC Electronic M300.

Have they FIXED this thing yet?
I bought it early on, on the basis merely of it being TC... and while it's
nifty, has some wonderful sounds in there and I really only expected a
tweaked different flavor of the LEXICON 100, the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.


Are you talking about effects units manufacturers not including simple
programs in the presets? Most of the Lexicons have all kinds of wacky
stuff like the WhizbangManifoldDiscombobulatorPlanetoid but when you want
a simple delay---nowhere to be seen. I often want a simple delay---no
ping-ponging, chorusing, or anything. Just a simple delay with parameters
like regeneration and length.

Because if that's what you are annoyed with---I agree.

Rob R.

that too but minor.
What I refer to here is an M300 fault in the delay algorythms that results
in (I THINK) a sample or 2 delay twixt L and R outputs on a MONO delay
signal... sounds not-quite-center... not-quite-out-of-polarity-odd... sums
to mono weird and is just plain WRONG.

in article znr1093876994k@trad, Mike Rivers at wrote on
8/30/04 3:33 PM:


In article
writes:

Try the TC Electronic M300.


the problem with something as
straightforward as the straight delays (and -maybe- some of the reverbs),
even after long phone calls trying to get a straight answer from the tech
and design folks, remains both annoying, inexplicable, and inexcusable.

And just what is the problem of which you speak?

What I refer to here is an M300 fault in the delay algorythms that results
in (I THINK) a sample or 2 delay twixt L and R outputs on a MONO delay
signal... sounds not-quite-center... not-quite-out-of-polarity-odd... sums
to mono weird and is just plain WRONG.

In article writes:

What I refer to here is an M300 fault in the delay algorythms that results
in (I THINK) a sample or 2 delay twixt L and R outputs on a MONO delay
signal...

That's easy to fix. Just unplug one of the outputs. But then I guess
you can't use a stereo effect return for its outputs.

Does seem kind of silly that the same signal isn't routed to both
outputs, but I guess it must be a software thing. Or maybe they're
alternating channels with each clock cycle. It would be interesting to
look at it close-up to see what's actually happning. You could record
the two outputs on two tracks of a DAW, feed it with something that
has an easy-to-see wavefront, and zoom in to see just how far apart
the two tracks are.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article ,
says...

What I refer to here is an M300 fault in the delay algorythms that results
in (I THINK) a sample or 2 delay twixt L and R outputs on a MONO delay
signal... sounds not-quite-center... not-quite-out-of-polarity-odd... sums
to mono weird and is just plain WRONG.

Not a fault but a feature?

From the TC-M300 FAQ:

--- snip ----
Q:
The delays in the M300 seems to have a pseudo stereo effect ?

A:
Yes, that is correct.

The outputs of the delays have a 90 degree phase shift between
each other.
The reason for this is to make a slightly wider stereo image AND
in order not to get too much delay if your signal is summed to
mono.
--- snip ----


--
/ Peter Kaersaa

in article , Peter Kaersaa at Peter
Kaersaa wrote on 8/31/04 4:36 PM:

In article ,
says...

What I refer to here is an M300 fault in the delay algorythms that results
in (I THINK) a sample or 2 delay twixt L and R outputs on a MONO delay
signal... sounds not-quite-center... not-quite-out-of-polarity-odd... sums
to mono weird and is just plain WRONG.

Not a fault but a feature?

From the TC-M300 FAQ:

--- snip ----
Q:
The delays in the M300 seems to have a pseudo stereo effect ?

A:
Yes, that is correct.

The outputs of the delays have a 90 degree phase shift between
each other.
The reason for this is to make a slightly wider stereo image AND
in order not to get too much delay if your signal is summed to
mono.
--- snip ----


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
what a load...

wait... that's how our Currently Elected Officials are explaining huge
screw-ups...
why am I laughing.

In article writes:

From the TC-M300 FAQ:

The outputs of the delays have a 90 degree phase shift between
each other.
The reason for this is to make a slightly wider stereo image AND
in order not to get too much delay if your signal is summed to
mono.

That sounds pretty obtuse. I wonder how they get a 90 degree phase
shift with a digital device when they don't know what frequency is
going into it. All-pass filters? If it's a featue, it needs a better
explanation than that.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article ,
"Particle Salad" wrote:
You will have digital clocking problems if you're trying to use both the
reverb and your sound card as clock master.

Good point...

On the other hand, the clock in the digital reverb may not be as good as the
one in your sound card.

Truth is, you really want a digital reverb with a SPDIF out AND a word clock
connection... at least ideally.

A reverb with a digital input is quite sufficient. There's really no
reason to require word clock, and coincidentally, I've never personally
seen a digital reverb with a WC input. They might exist in the form of
Lexicon 960s and the like, but not for short money...

Barring WC, this opens a can of worms, since you now need to cook up a
digital send to the reverb, presumably from the DAW. Doing this without
latency might be really tough.

....which brings us back to the question for the OP: what's so bad about
analog IO? You purposely wanted a ****ty reverb, right? Why polish it
with digital IO???

My suggestion: split the signals going into your DAW. One side goes to
the converters, the other goes to an analog mixer. Put an analog IO
reverb on an effect send and wire the console mix outputs to your
headphone rig. Problem solved. Analog monitoring is good. Remember,
"no latency" monitoring is still a ms. or two off due to converter
delays. Why not avoid it all with analog.


Regards,

Monte McGuire

(ScotFraser) wrote in message ...
Any suggestions?

The Boss VF1 has a SPDIF out, only 44.1k, though.


Scott Fraser

VERY underrated and cool unit, sort of like a cleaned up and better
version of the SE-50/SE-70.

I've got a pair of them rack together I use in a keyboard rack to
apply F/X to a couple of older (dare I say "vintage") keyboards...they
are great for that, run a synth through distortion/phase that sort of
thing.

They also do straight reverb/delays very well.

Analogeezer

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1093985742k@trad...
In article writes:

From the TC-M300 FAQ:

The outputs of the delays have a 90 degree phase shift between
each other.
The reason for this is to make a slightly wider stereo image AND
in order not to get too much delay if your signal is summed to
mono.

That sounds pretty obtuse. I wonder how they get a 90 degree phase
shift with a digital device when they don't know what frequency is
going into it. All-pass filters? If it's a featue, it needs a better
explanation than that.

Maybe they apply a little bit of the phase shifter algorithm to that
channel, just slap a little bit of MXR Phase 90 style effecto, then
bam you got yer 90 degree phase shift g

Analogeezer

Lexicon 960L.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Monte McGuire" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Particle Salad" wrote:
You will have digital clocking problems if you're trying to use both the
reverb and your sound card as clock master.

Good point...

On the other hand, the clock in the digital reverb may not be as good as
the
one in your sound card.

Truth is, you really want a digital reverb with a SPDIF out AND a word
clock
connection... at least ideally.

A reverb with a digital input is quite sufficient. There's really no
reason to require word clock, and coincidentally, I've never personally
seen a digital reverb with a WC input. They might exist in the form of
Lexicon 960s and the like, but not for short money...

Barring WC, this opens a can of worms, since you now need to cook up a
digital send to the reverb, presumably from the DAW. Doing this without
latency might be really tough.

...which brings us back to the question for the OP: what's so bad about
analog IO? You purposely wanted a ****ty reverb, right? Why polish it
with digital IO???

My suggestion: split the signals going into your DAW. One side goes to
the converters, the other goes to an analog mixer. Put an analog IO
reverb on an effect send and wire the console mix outputs to your
headphone rig. Problem solved. Analog monitoring is good. Remember,
"no latency" monitoring is still a ms. or two off due to converter
delays. Why not avoid it all with analog.


Regards,

Monte McGuire

Lexicon 960L.


Hah!!
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I just picked up three old Alesis Wedge reverbs on EBay for $100.00 a
piece.. I've got these things paired with three Furman HRM 16's and it's
like a match made in heaven. Very nice reverbs for cue mixes and though I've
got a lot of choices here for 'verb, I'm pretty sure these will be finding
their way into a few final mixes as well. These are surprisingly good
sounding units................no digital I/O, but if you've got decent (and
available) AD/DA converters, one of these might be the ticket for you.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO

"Rodney St-Pierre" wrote in message
news
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod

I just picked up three old Alesis Wedge reverbs on EBay for $100.00 a
piece.. I've got these things paired with three Furman HRM 16's and it's
like a match made in heaven. Very nice reverbs for cue mixes and though I've
got a lot of choices here for 'verb, I'm pretty sure these will be finding
their way into a few final mixes as well. These are surprisingly good
sounding units................no digital I/O, but if you've got decent (and
available) AD/DA converters, one of these might be the ticket for you.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO

"Rodney St-Pierre" wrote in message
news
Any suggestions? Will be used mostly to add reverb to the monitor mix
while recording, not necessarily keeping the same reverb on the final mix.
If the unit had other effects too, that would be fine.

rod