Zarathustra SACD/DSD

On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
> On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>>
>>>> The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.
>>>>
>>> I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'
>>>
>> Not according to Imdb.
>>
>> Thus Spoke Zarathustra
>> Music by Richard Strauss
>> Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
>> Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)
>>
>> Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
>> they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
>> happened, it worked very well.
>>
>> --
>> Tciao for Now!
>>
>> John.
> ______
>
> Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?
>
It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 3:40:20 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
> > On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> >> On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >>
> >>>> The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.
> >>>>
> >>> I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'
> >>>
> >> Not according to Imdb.
> >>
> >> Thus Spoke Zarathustra
> >> Music by Richard Strauss
> >> Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
> >> Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)
> >>
> >> Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
> >> they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
> >> happened, it worked very well.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tciao for Now!
> >>
> >> John.
> > ______
> >
> > Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?
> >
> It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
> Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.
________
Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT

2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
exclusively for Kubrick before then.

As for the OP: No need to source a SACD of Also Sprach. Only of benefit
to dogs! See CD above.

On 5/11/21 5:20 AM, Chris K-Man wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 3:40:20 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
>>>> On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'
>>>>>
>>>> Not according to Imdb.
>>>>
>>>> Thus Spoke Zarathustra
>>>> Music by Richard Strauss
>>>> Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
>>>> Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)
>>>>
>>>> Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
>>>> they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
>>>> happened, it worked very well.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tciao for Now!
>>>>
>>>> John.
>>> ______
>>>
>>> Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?
>>>
>> It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
>> Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.
>> --
>> Tciao for Now!
>>
>> John.
> ________
> Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT
>
> 2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
> exclusively for Kubrick before then.
>
> As for the OP: No need to source a SACD of Also Sprach. Only of benefit
> to dogs! See CD above.

That's the Berlin orchestra. Here's the Vienna performance used in 2001,
recorded 1959:

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-sprac.../dp/B00004C8TF

Yes, there's a Japanese SHM-SACD.

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't used
in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been recorded.

On 11/05/2021 11:20, Chris K-Man wrote:
_______
> Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT
>
> 2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
> exclusively for Kubrick before then.
>
No, it was a commercially released recording, and seems to be the the
that was recorded in 1959, which is the only one I can find listed
online. The orchestra recorded other versions, but not with Karajan in
charge.

*All* the music used in 2001 was readily available commercial releases,
and the music track was mixed not long before the cinematic release.



--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> On 11/05/2021 11:20, Chris K-Man wrote:
> _______
> > Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT
> >
> > 2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
> > exclusively for Kubrick before then.
> >
> No, it was a commercially released recording, and seems to be the the
> that was recorded in 1959, which is the only one I can find listed
> online. The orchestra recorded other versions, but not with Karajan in
> charge.
>
> *All* the music used in 2001 was readily available commercial releases,
> and the music track was mixed not long before the cinematic release.
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.
_________
That 1959 one would make sense for use in 2001:.

It's widely considered to be THE Zarathustra by which all other
performances of it are compared.

And then, there's THISI was three when it aired, but I remember
hearing it on TV in my folks' living room)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zLmsZC45-m8&t=360s

On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't
> used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been
> recorded.

Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times, and
I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed that they
are different recordings. I've listened to the soundtrack LP the most,
and that's how it's supposed to sound to me. The biggest goose-bump
moment for me is the bit of pipe organ that pops out at the very end.
The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds the chord longer and is brighter and
has a beautiful shimmering quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version
organ is a bit less prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago
version mentioned above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too
brassy, and the strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat
compared to the orchestra.

On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil > wrote:

>On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 > wrote in
>rec.audio.pro:
>
>> The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't
>> used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been
>> recorded.
>
>Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times, and
>I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed that they
>are different recordings. I've listened to the soundtrack LP the most,
>and that's how it's supposed to sound to me. The biggest goose-bump
>moment for me is the bit of pipe organ that pops out at the very end.
>The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds the chord longer and is brighter and
>has a beautiful shimmering quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version
>organ is a bit less prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago
>version mentioned above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too
>brassy, and the strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat
>compared to the orchestra.

Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's a good discussion.
There are 5 pages to click.

https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html

On 12 May 2021, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil
> > wrote:
>
>>On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 > wrote in
>>rec.audio.pro:
>>
>>> The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin,
>>> wasn't used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has
>>> also been recorded.
>>
>>Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times,
>>and I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed
>>that they are different recordings. I've listened to the
>>soundtrack LP the most, and that's how it's supposed to sound to
>>me. The biggest goose-bump moment for me is the bit of pipe organ
>>that pops out at the very end. The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds
>>the chord longer and is brighter and has a beautiful shimmering
>>quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version organ is a bit less
>>prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago version mentioned
>>above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too brassy, and the
>>strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat compared to
>>the orchestra.
>
> Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's
> a good discussion. There are 5 pages to click.
>
> https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html

Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know better
than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a favorite, but it's the
one I've heard the most so it sounds most right to me. The Karajan/Vienna
film version is similar and also excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't
have the same impact for me.

On 5/12/2021 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:
> On 12 May 2021, wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>
>> On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 > wrote in
>>> rec.audio.pro:
>>>
>>>> The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin,
>>>> wasn't used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has
>>>> also been recorded.
>>>
>>> Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times,
>>> and I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed
>>> that they are different recordings. I've listened to the
>>> soundtrack LP the most, and that's how it's supposed to sound to
>>> me. The biggest goose-bump moment for me is the bit of pipe organ
>>> that pops out at the very end. The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds
>>> the chord longer and is brighter and has a beautiful shimmering
>>> quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version organ is a bit less
>>> prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago version mentioned
>>> above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too brassy, and the
>>> strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat compared to
>>> the orchestra.
>>
>> Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's
>> a good discussion. There are 5 pages to click.
>>
>> https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html
>
> Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know better
> than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a favorite, but it's the
> one I've heard the most so it sounds most right to me. The Karajan/Vienna
> film version is similar and also excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't
> have the same impact for me.
>

I vote for the Bohm/Berlin version from 1958, available in a variety of
collections. (Beware the CBS Records version, there is a ton of subsonic
stuff that will make your woofers come unhinged).

When 2001 A Space Odyssey was released in 1968, I did not go to see it.
But I did buy the official LP soundtrack, which included the Bohm/Berlin
version of Zarathustra. I played Zarathustra often and LOUD. It was very
exhilarating. It wasn't until years later that I saw the movie and heard
the Karajan version. Frankly, I was disappointed in the Karajan version.
It seemed to be missing the intensity and tension and emotion of the
epic battle that the piece supposedly represents. The Bohm/Berlin
version, in my humble opinion, nailed it.

I have no idea how the piece was intended to be played by Strauss, but I
love the Bohm/Berlin version, played LOUD. REALLY LOUD. On my long list
of things to do that I will likely never get to, is to remaster the
movie with the Bohm/Berlin version in place of the Karajan version.

But I am no expert on classical music. Just one guy's opinion.

John Hardy

On 12 May 2021, John Hardy > wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> On 5/12/2021 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know
>> better than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a
>> favorite, but it's the one I've heard the most so it sounds most
>> right to me. The Karajan/Vienna film version is similar and also
>> excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't have the same impact for
>> me.
>
> I vote for the Bohm/Berlin version from 1958, available in a
> variety of collections. (Beware the CBS Records version, there is
> a ton of subsonic stuff that will make your woofers come
> unhinged).
>
> When 2001 A Space Odyssey was released in 1968, I did not go to
> see it. But I did buy the official LP soundtrack, which included
> the Bohm/Berlin version of Zarathustra. I played Zarathustra often
> and LOUD. It was very exhilarating. It wasn't until years later
> that I saw the movie and heard the Karajan version. Frankly, I was
> disappointed in the Karajan version. It seemed to be missing the
> intensity and tension and emotion of the epic battle that the
> piece supposedly represents. The Bohm/Berlin version, in my humble
> opinion, nailed it.
>
> I have no idea how the piece was intended to be played by Strauss,
> but I love the Bohm/Berlin version, played LOUD. REALLY LOUD. On
> my long list of things to do that I will likely never get to, is
> to remaster the movie with the Bohm/Berlin version in place of the
> Karajan version.
>
> But I am no expert on classical music. Just one guy's opinion.
>
> John Hardy

I did see 2001 when it first came out, several times, including three
times in Cinerama. I was nuts about that movie. To see the dramatic
opening and closing scenes on a fresh print on a huge, wraparound
Cinerama screen, and yes, it was LOUD LOUD LOUD... the experience
impressed me for life. The Von Karajan version was completely up to the
task in that environment.