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Sean B Sean B is offline
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Default Zarathustra SACD/DSD

Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach) Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version for its tempo and interpretation. Has this ever been released on SACD or as a DSD file? The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?

Thanks,

Sean B

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Chris K-Man Chris K-Man is offline
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On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:36:39 PM UTC-4, Sean B wrote:
Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach) Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version for its tempo and interpretation. Has this ever been released on SACD or as a DSD file? The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?

Thanks,

Sean B

______

This version moves me to tears every time I
hear it.....!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hpJ6anurfuw
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Ron C[_2_] Ron C[_2_] is offline
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On 5/8/2021 4:36 PM, Sean B wrote:
Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach) Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version for its tempo and interpretation. Has this ever been released on SACD or as a DSD file? The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?

Thanks,

Sean B

OK, I'm sure this isn't what you're looking for... but ages ago I found this
awesome Bluegrass version from someone in this newsgroup.
[I seem to recall it was Mike Rivers, but may be wrong.]
Anyway, I put it in my dropbox.
~~
Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfv21c6ybg...0bluegrass.wav

--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--
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gray_wolf gray_wolf is offline
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On 08/05/2021 9:41 pm, Ron C wrote:
On 5/8/2021 4:36 PM, Sean B wrote:
Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach)
Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version
for its tempo and interpretation.* Has this ever been released on SACD or as a
DSD file?* The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?

Thanks,

Sean B

OK, I'm sure this isn't what you're looking for... but ages ago I found this
awesome Bluegrass version from someone in this newsgroup.
[I seem to recall it was Mike Rivers, but may be wrong.]
Anyway, I put it in my dropbox.
~~
Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfv21c6ybg...0bluegrass.wav


Too cool!! Who's playing Dobro on this?

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On Sat, 8 May 2021 13:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Sean B wrote:

Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach) Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version for its tempo and interpretation. Has this ever been released on SACD or as a DSD file? The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?


The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Also-.../dp/B000003FE9


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Chris K-Man Chris K-Man is offline
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On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 13:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Sean B wrote:

Hello,

I've been searching for the best recorded version of (Also Sprach) Zarathustra, by Richard Strauss, and I really like the 1973 Karajan version for its tempo and interpretation. Has this ever been released on SACD or as a DSD file? The CD version has some very screechy strings.

Are there any other versions of this piece that people like?

The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Also-.../dp/B000003FE9


_______
I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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On 5/8/2021 10:41 PM, Ron C wrote:
I found this
awesome Bluegrass version from someone in this newsgroup.
[I seem to recall it was Mike Rivers, but may be wrong.]


Nope, it wasn't from me. Unusual, for sure.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:


The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'

Not according to Imdb.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Music by Richard Strauss
Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)

Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
happened, it worked very well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Chris K-Man Chris K-Man is offline
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On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:


The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'

Not according to Imdb.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Music by Richard Strauss
Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)

Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
happened, it worked very well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

______

Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?
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On 5/10/2021 8:33 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/8/2021 10:41 PM, Ron C wrote:
I found this
awesome Bluegrass version from someone in this newsgroup.
[I seem to recall it was Mike Rivers, but may be wrong.]


Nope, it wasn't from me. Unusual, for sure.

Hmm, I'm going to have to dig deep in my archives to
find the source and details. I found that clip 20++ years
ago in a Recording Magazine extra stuff CD.
I seem to recall it was attributed to someone on
this group.
Damn, that was a while ago...
~
If/when I find more I'll post it.
--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--



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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:


The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'

Not according to Imdb.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Music by Richard Strauss
Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)

Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
happened, it worked very well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

______

Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?

It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 3:40:20 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:

The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'

Not according to Imdb.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Music by Richard Strauss
Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)

Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
happened, it worked very well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

______

Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?

It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

________
Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT

2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
exclusively for Kubrick before then.

As for the OP: No need to source a SACD of Also Sprach. Only of benefit
to dogs! See CD above.
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MiNe109 MiNe109 is offline
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On 5/11/21 5:20 AM, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 3:40:20 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 23:19, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:03:27 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/05/2021 13:14, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:

The 1954 recording by Reiner conducting Chicago Symphony is considered by many to be the standard to which others are measured.

I wonder if that's the version that was used in the score for '2001: A Space Odyssey'

Not according to Imdb.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Music by Richard Strauss
Performed by Wiener Philharmoniker (uncredited)
Conducted by Herbert von Karajan (uncredited)

Kubrick and Clarke used commercial recordings for the music track, as
they had run out of money for a realm orchestral sound track. As it
happened, it worked very well.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
______

Do we have a year for that version? 1960s?

It took me almost a minute to find out that Karajan and the Wiener
Philharmoniker only issued one recording of that piece.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

________
Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT

2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
exclusively for Kubrick before then.

As for the OP: No need to source a SACD of Also Sprach. Only of benefit
to dogs! See CD above.


That's the Berlin orchestra. Here's the Vienna performance used in 2001,
recorded 1959:

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-sprac.../dp/B00004C8TF

Yes, there's a Japanese SHM-SACD.

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't used
in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been recorded.


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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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On 11/05/2021 11:20, Chris K-Man wrote:
_______
Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT

2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
exclusively for Kubrick before then.

No, it was a commercially released recording, and seems to be the the
that was recorded in 1959, which is the only one I can find listed
online. The orchestra recorded other versions, but not with Karajan in
charge.

*All* the music used in 2001 was readily available commercial releases,
and the music track was mixed not long before the cinematic release.



--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/05/2021 11:20, Chris K-Man wrote:
_______
Original analog 1974, might be the version on this CD: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Sprac.../dp/B000001GQT

2001: came out in 1968 in theaters, so Karajan must have performed
exclusively for Kubrick before then.

No, it was a commercially released recording, and seems to be the the
that was recorded in 1959, which is the only one I can find listed
online. The orchestra recorded other versions, but not with Karajan in
charge.

*All* the music used in 2001 was readily available commercial releases,
and the music track was mixed not long before the cinematic release.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

_________
That 1959 one would make sense for use in 2001:.

It's widely considered to be THE Zarathustra by which all other
performances of it are compared.

And then, there's THISI was three when it aired, but I remember
hearing it on TV in my folks' living room)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zLmsZC45-m8&t=360s


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Nil[_2_] Nil[_2_] is offline
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On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't
used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been
recorded.


Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times, and
I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed that they
are different recordings. I've listened to the soundtrack LP the most,
and that's how it's supposed to sound to me. The biggest goose-bump
moment for me is the bit of pipe organ that pops out at the very end.
The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds the chord longer and is brighter and
has a beautiful shimmering quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version
organ is a bit less prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago
version mentioned above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too
brassy, and the strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat
compared to the orchestra.
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On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil wrote:

On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin, wasn't
used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has also been
recorded.


Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times, and
I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed that they
are different recordings. I've listened to the soundtrack LP the most,
and that's how it's supposed to sound to me. The biggest goose-bump
moment for me is the bit of pipe organ that pops out at the very end.
The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds the chord longer and is brighter and
has a beautiful shimmering quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version
organ is a bit less prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago
version mentioned above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too
brassy, and the strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat
compared to the orchestra.


Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's a good discussion.
There are 5 pages to click.

https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html
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On 12 May 2021, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin,
wasn't used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has
also been recorded.


Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times,
and I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed
that they are different recordings. I've listened to the
soundtrack LP the most, and that's how it's supposed to sound to
me. The biggest goose-bump moment for me is the bit of pipe organ
that pops out at the very end. The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds
the chord longer and is brighter and has a beautiful shimmering
quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version organ is a bit less
prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago version mentioned
above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too brassy, and the
strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat compared to
the orchestra.


Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's
a good discussion. There are 5 pages to click.

https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html

Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know better
than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a favorite, but it's the
one I've heard the most so it sounds most right to me. The Karajan/Vienna
film version is similar and also excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't
have the same impact for me.
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John Hardy John Hardy is offline
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On 5/12/2021 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:
On 12 May 2021, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

On Wed, 12 May 2021 15:10:05 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 11 May 2021, MiNe109 wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

The version on the MGM soundtrack album, Karl Bohm/Berlin,
wasn't used in the movie. Alex North's rejected soundtrack has
also been recorded.

Interesting, I did not know that! I've seen the film many times,
and I've had the soundtrack LP since it came out. I never noticed
that they are different recordings. I've listened to the
soundtrack LP the most, and that's how it's supposed to sound to
me. The biggest goose-bump moment for me is the bit of pipe organ
that pops out at the very end. The Bohm/Berlin LP version holds
the chord longer and is brighter and has a beautiful shimmering
quality. The Karajan/Vienna film version organ is a bit less
prominent. I also listened to the Reiner/Chicago version mentioned
above. I don't like it nearly as much! It's too brassy, and the
strings are too subdued. Also the organ is quite flat compared to
the orchestra.


Consensus seems to be there are 4 or 5 excellent recordings.Here's
a good discussion. There are 5 pages to click.

https://www.talkclassical.com/65666-...ecordings.html

Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know better
than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a favorite, but it's the
one I've heard the most so it sounds most right to me. The Karajan/Vienna
film version is similar and also excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't
have the same impact for me.


I vote for the Bohm/Berlin version from 1958, available in a variety of
collections. (Beware the CBS Records version, there is a ton of subsonic
stuff that will make your woofers come unhinged).

When 2001 A Space Odyssey was released in 1968, I did not go to see it.
But I did buy the official LP soundtrack, which included the Bohm/Berlin
version of Zarathustra. I played Zarathustra often and LOUD. It was very
exhilarating. It wasn't until years later that I saw the movie and heard
the Karajan version. Frankly, I was disappointed in the Karajan version.
It seemed to be missing the intensity and tension and emotion of the
epic battle that the piece supposedly represents. The Bohm/Berlin
version, in my humble opinion, nailed it.

I have no idea how the piece was intended to be played by Strauss, but I
love the Bohm/Berlin version, played LOUD. REALLY LOUD. On my long list
of things to do that I will likely never get to, is to remaster the
movie with the Bohm/Berlin version in place of the Karajan version.

But I am no expert on classical music. Just one guy's opinion.

John Hardy
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On 12 May 2021, John Hardy wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

On 5/12/2021 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:

Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know
better than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a
favorite, but it's the one I've heard the most so it sounds most
right to me. The Karajan/Vienna film version is similar and also
excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't have the same impact for
me.


I vote for the Bohm/Berlin version from 1958, available in a
variety of collections. (Beware the CBS Records version, there is
a ton of subsonic stuff that will make your woofers come
unhinged).

When 2001 A Space Odyssey was released in 1968, I did not go to
see it. But I did buy the official LP soundtrack, which included
the Bohm/Berlin version of Zarathustra. I played Zarathustra often
and LOUD. It was very exhilarating. It wasn't until years later
that I saw the movie and heard the Karajan version. Frankly, I was
disappointed in the Karajan version. It seemed to be missing the
intensity and tension and emotion of the epic battle that the
piece supposedly represents. The Bohm/Berlin version, in my humble
opinion, nailed it.

I have no idea how the piece was intended to be played by Strauss,
but I love the Bohm/Berlin version, played LOUD. REALLY LOUD. On
my long list of things to do that I will likely never get to, is
to remaster the movie with the Bohm/Berlin version in place of the
Karajan version.

But I am no expert on classical music. Just one guy's opinion.

John Hardy


I did see 2001 when it first came out, several times, including three
times in Cinerama. I was nuts about that movie. To see the dramatic
opening and closing scenes on a fresh print on a huge, wraparound
Cinerama screen, and yes, it was LOUD LOUD LOUD... the experience
impressed me for life. The Von Karajan version was completely up to the
task in that environment.


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geoff geoff is offline
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On 13/05/2021 7:41 pm, Nil wrote:
On 12 May 2021, John Hardy wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

On 5/12/2021 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:

Thanks for that - interesting discussion by people who would know
better than I. Nobody mentions the Bohm/Berlin version as a
favorite, but it's the one I've heard the most so it sounds most
right to me. The Karajan/Vienna film version is similar and also
excellent, but the pipe organ bits don't have the same impact for
me.


I vote for the Bohm/Berlin version from 1958, available in a
variety of collections. (Beware the CBS Records version, there is
a ton of subsonic stuff that will make your woofers come
unhinged).

When 2001 A Space Odyssey was released in 1968, I did not go to
see it. But I did buy the official LP soundtrack, which included
the Bohm/Berlin version of Zarathustra. I played Zarathustra often
and LOUD. It was very exhilarating. It wasn't until years later
that I saw the movie and heard the Karajan version. Frankly, I was
disappointed in the Karajan version. It seemed to be missing the
intensity and tension and emotion of the epic battle that the
piece supposedly represents. The Bohm/Berlin version, in my humble
opinion, nailed it.

I have no idea how the piece was intended to be played by Strauss,
but I love the Bohm/Berlin version, played LOUD. REALLY LOUD. On
my long list of things to do that I will likely never get to, is
to remaster the movie with the Bohm/Berlin version in place of the
Karajan version.

But I am no expert on classical music. Just one guy's opinion.

John Hardy


I did see 2001 when it first came out, several times, including three
times in Cinerama. I was nuts about that movie. To see the dramatic
opening and closing scenes on a fresh print on a huge, wraparound
Cinerama screen, and yes, it was LOUD LOUD LOUD... the experience
impressed me for life. The Von Karajan version was completely up to the
task in that environment.


Still love the movie, especially as some of the themes become
increasingly credible !

Talking about LOUD and woofers - when I first got the Telarc 1812 LP I
thought somebody had dropped a chisel on the grooves ;- )

geoff


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