replacing mic cables with radio mics

Chris K-Man wrote:
wrote:
> > Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > >
> > > The Lectrosonics is amazingly better than the wireless systems
> > > of the past, but it's not anywhere near as good as a cable.
> > >
> > ** OK - but I was thinking of some other issues that would definitely ruin a classical recording
> >
> > 1. You cannot use phantom powered mics - only dynamics & batt powered electrets.
> >
> > 2. Typical wireless mic systems are engineered to work with vocal mics, so big signal levels coming from the mic.
> > Not so good with only mV or sub mV levels.
> >
> > 3. Even with diversity receivers, RF level drops and brief noise bursts are common.
> > Just one of them and you have to start all over.
> >
> > 4. RF interference from other wireless mics, broadcast TV and data signals can cause the same as above.
> >
> > Not worth it, for just a bit of convenience.
> >
>
> I'm chuckling at the thought of a burst of audio from 'General
> Hospital' being recorded in the middle of someone's precious
> violin quartet!


** LOL !

Only ever saw a case like that once here in Sydney.
Involved a Vega R22 wireless receiver on 204 MHz - similar to this one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/193427859801?chn=ps

Worked just fine with the matching mic, but if another mic used with a similar R22 was brought near the first - the sound from TV Ch 9 popped up clear as day.

Seemed the signal from the second mic mixed with the TV FM sound carrier in the RF stage and the result came in on the image frequency of the particular R22.


...... Phil

> wrote:
>** OK - but I was thinking of some other issues that would definitely ruin a classical recording
>
>1. You cannot use phantom powered mics - only dynamics & batt powered electrets.


This is no longer the case! A bunch of the newer butt plugs will now
supply 48V phantom. Shortens battery life, though.

>2. Typical wireless mic systems are engineered to work with vocal mics, so big signal levels coming from the mic.
> Not so good with only mV or sub mV levels.

The Lectrosonics systems are better than most in this regard. All of the
systems using companding will do some weird things with wide dynamic range
signals, but not all of them are as bad as the current Sony generation.
But yes, this is a fidelity issue and a big one.

>3. Even with diversity receivers, RF level drops and brief noise bursts are common.
> Just one of them and you have to start all over.

This is much better than it used to be. I wouldn't call wireless systems
reliable, but they are much more reliable and have better link margins than
they did a decade ago.

>4. RF interference from other wireless mics, broadcast TV and data signals can cause the same as above.

This is why frequency coordination is critical and if it's any sort of live
event you need to have a dedicated frequency coordinator who does nothing
but look for undocumented noise sources and plot out intermodulation products.
At festivals, the security guys are on the alert to stop anyone who has
anything with an antenna that doesn't have a yellow flag on it and send them
to the frequency coordinator in the press room and get them tested and flagged.

> Not worth it, for just a bit of convenience.

Agreed, but more and more people are demanding it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 1/05/2021 12:55 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 4/30/2021 8:31 PM, Mike Clayton wrote:
>> I'm contemplating buying a pair of radio mic circuits to replace cable
>> runs on remote jobs. Hopefully I can get transmitters that plug
>> directly into the XLR sockets in the back of the microphones.
>
> There's a lot more to using wireless mics than just plugging them in.
> I'd suggest that you first read whatever information is available on the
> web sites of the makers of pro quality wireless mics such as Sennheiser,
> Lectrosonics, Audio Technica, and Shure. Get a sense of what's involved
> and who makes what, and fits your budget.

And AKG...

geoff

Scott Dorsey wrote:
===================
>>
> >1. You cannot use phantom powered mics - only dynamics & batt powered electrets.
> This is no longer the case! A bunch of the newer butt plugs will now
> supply 48V phantom. Shortens battery life, though.
> >2. Typical wireless mic systems are engineered to work with vocal mics, so big signal levels coming from the mic.
> > Not so good with only mV or sub mV levels.
> The Lectrosonics systems are better than most in this regard.

** This is may be what Scott is alluding to:

https://www.lectrosonics.com/Product...ansmitter.html

Click on "data sheet" for tech details.

A cool US$ 1,700 for one transmitter.
Another US$ 1,300 for one receiver, batt powered.

So US$ 6,000 for the OP to replace two XLR cables.



...... Phil

On 3/05/2021 4:14 pm, wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> ===================
>>>
>>> 1. You cannot use phantom powered mics - only dynamics & batt powered electrets.
>> This is no longer the case! A bunch of the newer butt plugs will now
>> supply 48V phantom. Shortens battery life, though.
>>> 2. Typical wireless mic systems are engineered to work with vocal mics, so big signal levels coming from the mic.
>>> Not so good with only mV or sub mV levels.
>> The Lectrosonics systems are better than most in this regard.
>
> ** This is may be what Scott is alluding to:
>
> https://www.lectrosonics.com/Product...ansmitter.html
>
> Click on "data sheet" for tech details.
>

One thing not mentioned in the data sheet is the latency. Unless I
missed it.

geoff

geoff wrote:
-----------------
>
> >>> 1. You cannot use phantom powered mics - only dynamics & batt powered electrets.
> >> This is no longer the case! A bunch of the newer butt plugs will now
> >> supply 48V phantom. Shortens battery life, though.
> >>> 2. Typical wireless mic systems are engineered to work with vocal mics, so big signal levels coming from the mic.
> >>> Not so good with only mV or sub mV levels.
> >> The Lectrosonics systems are better than most in this regard.
> >
> > ** This is may be what Scott is alluding to:
> >
> > https://www.lectrosonics.com/Product...ansmitter.html
> >
> > Click on "data sheet" for tech details.
> >
> One thing not mentioned in the data sheet is the latency. Unless I
> missed it.
>

** Think the fact the Rx is tiny & batt powered is a clue .....


....... Phil