I saw this thing advertised in a Geetar Center flyer, figured it must
be a POS.

I don't have a direct link (their website kinda sucks in that way) but
if you go to Bose.com you can find it easily enough.

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

Any comments?

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It's not very cheap, the system with one sub runs about two grand.

Analogeezer

Analogeezer wrote:

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

It's a simulated line radiator with a bunch of drivers.

Any comments?

I can see a real line radiator being a good idea in a small PA rig, and
it doesn't have the horn issues.

I do not think putting a bunch of drivers into a tube makes a good
simulation of a line source. But there are plenty of other people
doing it. Think of this as just a newer Bogen Soundcolumn.

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It is a Bose product.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

From a thread in the Gearslutz forum, posted October 29:

--------------------------------------

Last weekend I was at a club where a local band used this system in
public for the first time. No guitar amps, no keyboard amps, no bass
amps, no floor monitors, no club house speakers. Just four of the Bose 7
foot "sticks" with the power amp bases, and six of the subs.

The sticks are filled with little tiny speakers. They are placed behind
the musicians on stage, so what the musicians hear is exactly what the
house hears. They broadcast 180 degrees in the horizontal plane without
any high frequency roll-off, yet in the vertical plane they have a
fairly narrow focus to minimize ceiling and floor reflections. The
feedback rejection is pretty amazing, as you have to work real hard to
get them to feed back, which isn't easy.

The band was a roots blues/R&B/reggae type band with all original songs.
Sort of Lenny Kravits-ish. I've recorded their last two CDs at my
studio. The bass player is a technical monster (think Jaco) and the
drummer kicks total ass. The front man plays electric guitar and does
the lead vocals as well as chromatic harmonica. He also writes all the
songs. The keyboard player was new, but was very impressive.

Results?

The plusses: I've been in this club many times - it's been one of the
longest continuously running music clubs in the Boston area and usually
features a lot of Jazz, Blues, and Latin music. I can say honestly that
I thought the Bose sound had a lot more clarity and was considerably
less fatiguing to listen to than the usual house system. Not having
blasting stage monitors and not using all the ceiling mounted speakers
made for more direct sound to the listener and not as much indirect
stuff bouncing around the room muddying the mix.

The minuses: The musicians were not quite as comfortable with the stage
mix as with what they are used to. It's harder to create individual
"more me" monitor mixes, since everyone including the audience is
hearing the same mix. The vocalists felt like they had to sing harder to
hear themselves like they wanted to, resulting in more wear and tear.

Other minuses: there is DSP in the units which so far are being used
primarily for EQ - no built in reverb or compression yet. But that seems
like a fairly easy add-on in version 2 (assuming a vs. 2). The
interesting thing will be the price point. The system I was looking at
would cost approximately $8000 street price, according to the Bose reps
I was talking to. (It will be sold exclusively at Guitar Center). Since
it is not an arena oriented system, but designed for small venues, it
will require some skillful marketing by Bose to get the kind of bands
that play those venues (i.e. the broke ones) to cough up that kind of
cash. Unless they can convince the clubs themselves to swithc to their
system, which would probably be an even harder sell.

I think the ideal match for this system is the solo or duo acoustic
performer, who could get away with using just one unit at about $2000.

It will be interesting to see what others think once it is available to
the general public .


------------------------------------------
Analogeezer wrote:
I saw this thing advertised in a Geetar Center flyer, figured it must
be a POS.

I don't have a direct link (their website kinda sucks in that way) but
if you go to Bose.com you can find it easily enough.

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

Any comments?

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It's not very cheap, the system with one sub runs about two grand.

Analogeezer

from the Gearslutrz forum, posted Oct.29


------------------

Last weekend I was at a club where a local band used this system in
public for the first time. No guitar amps, no keyboard amps, no bass
amps, no floor monitors, no club house speakers. Just four of the Bose 7
foot "sticks" with the power amp bases, and six of the subs.

The sticks are filled with little tiny speakers. They are placed behind
the musicians on stage, so what the musicians hear is exactly what the
house hears. They broadcast 180 degrees in the horizontal plane without
any high frequency roll-off, yet in the vertical plane they have a
fairly narrow focus to minimize ceiling and floor reflections. The
feedback rejection is pretty amazing, as you have to work real hard to
get them to feed back, which isn't easy.

The band was a roots blues/R&B/reggae type band with all original songs.
Sort of Lenny Kravits-ish. I've recorded their last two CDs at my
studio. The bass player is a technical monster (think Jaco) and the
drummer kicks total ass. The front man plays electric guitar and does
the lead vocals as well as chromatic harmonica. He also writes all the
songs. The keyboard player was new, but was very impressive.

Results?

The plusses: I've been in this club many times - it's been one of the
longest continuously running music clubs in the Boston area and usually
features a lot of Jazz, Blues, and Latin music. I can say honestly that
I thought the Bose sound had a lot more clarity and was considerably
less fatiguing to listen to than the usual house system. Not having
blasting stage monitors and not using all the ceiling mounted speakers
made for more direct sound to the listener and not as much indirect
stuff bouncing around the room muddying the mix.

The minuses: The musicians were not quite as comfortable with the stage
mix as with what they are used to. It's harder to create individual
"more me" monitor mixes, since everyone including the audience is
hearing the same mix. The vocalists felt like they had to sing harder to
hear themselves like they wanted to, resulting in more wear and tear.

Other minuses: there is DSP in the units which so far are being used
primarily for EQ - no built in reverb or compression yet. But that seems
like a fairly easy add-on in version 2 (assuming a vs. 2). The
interesting thing will be the price point. The system I was looking at
would cost approximately $8000 street price, according to the Bose reps
I was talking to. (It will be sold exclusively at Guitar Center). Since
it is not an arena oriented system, but designed for small venues, it
will require some skillful marketing by Bose to get the kind of bands
that play those venues (i.e. the broke ones) to cough up that kind of
cash. Unless they can convince the clubs themselves to swithc to their
system, which would probably be an even harder sell.

I think the ideal match for this system is the solo or duo acoustic
performer, who could get away with using just one unit at about $2000.

It will be interesting to see what others think once it is available to
the general public .

Analogeezer wrote:

I saw this thing advertised in a Geetar Center flyer, figured it must
be a POS.

I don't have a direct link (their website kinda sucks in that way) but
if you go to Bose.com you can find it easily enough.

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

Any comments?

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It's not very cheap, the system with one sub runs about two grand.

Analogeezer

from a Gearslutz forum,Oct.29

-----------------------------------
Last weekend I was at a club where a local band used this system in
public for the first time. No guitar amps, no keyboard amps, no bass
amps, no floor monitors, no club house speakers. Just four of the Bose 7
foot "sticks" with the power amp bases, and six of the subs.

The sticks are filled with little tiny speakers. They are placed behind
the musicians on stage, so what the musicians hear is exactly what the
house hears. They broadcast 180 degrees in the horizontal plane without
any high frequency roll-off, yet in the vertical plane they have a
fairly narrow focus to minimize ceiling and floor reflections. The
feedback rejection is pretty amazing, as you have to work real hard to
get them to feed back, which isn't easy.

The band was a roots blues/R&B/reggae type band with all original songs.
Sort of Lenny Kravits-ish. I've recorded their last two CDs at my
studio. The bass player is a technical monster (think Jaco) and the
drummer kicks total ass. The front man plays electric guitar and does
the lead vocals as well as chromatic harmonica. He also writes all the
songs. The keyboard player was new, but was very impressive.

Results?

The plusses: I've been in this club many times - it's been one of the
longest continuously running music clubs in the Boston area and usually
features a lot of Jazz, Blues, and Latin music. I can say honestly that
I thought the Bose sound had a lot more clarity and was considerably
less fatiguing to listen to than the usual house system. Not having
blasting stage monitors and not using all the ceiling mounted speakers
made for more direct sound to the listener and not as much indirect
stuff bouncing around the room muddying the mix.

The minuses: The musicians were not quite as comfortable with the stage
mix as with what they are used to. It's harder to create individual
"more me" monitor mixes, since everyone including the audience is
hearing the same mix. The vocalists felt like they had to sing harder to
hear themselves like they wanted to, resulting in more wear and tear.

Other minuses: there is DSP in the units which so far are being used
primarily for EQ - no built in reverb or compression yet. But that seems
like a fairly easy add-on in version 2 (assuming a vs. 2). The
interesting thing will be the price point. The system I was looking at
would cost approximately $8000 street price, according to the Bose reps
I was talking to. (It will be sold exclusively at Guitar Center). Since
it is not an arena oriented system, but designed for small venues, it
will require some skillful marketing by Bose to get the kind of bands
that play those venues (i.e. the broke ones) to cough up that kind of
cash. Unless they can convince the clubs themselves to swithc to their
system, which would probably be an even harder sell.

I think the ideal match for this system is the solo or duo acoustic
performer, who could get away with using just one unit at about $2000.

It will be interesting to see what others think once it is available to
the general public .
----------------------------------
Analogeezer wrote:
I saw this thing advertised in a Geetar Center flyer, figured it must
be a POS.

I don't have a direct link (their website kinda sucks in that way) but
if you go to Bose.com you can find it easily enough.

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

Any comments?

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It's not very cheap, the system with one sub runs about two grand.

Analogeezer

I haven't heard it yet, but my guess is that it's another attempt by
Bose to try to jump into a market that they've long forgotten about.
Another guess might be a joke.
Probably my last guess would be that it actually works and sounds
decent in any live setting other than possibly a singer/guitarist
performing solo in a coffee house setting.
I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.
later,
m

chetatkinsdiet wrote:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

That appears to be something other than what it could be about:
supporting acoustic events. It appears to be a sane idea. Generally
speaking acoustic musicians do not have the "more me" option.

I am beginning to wonder about the sound quality of the electronics.
Bose have occasionally had better ideas than implementations thereof, I
recall a magazine test of their large home "rearspeakers" that revealed
not insignificant clipping of the EQ module due to it not having the
headroom required to actually boost the treble by 22 dB, occasionally
memories may be flawed.

m


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

In article writes:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?



The people who buy Marshalls and SVTs. But only if they're playing it.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


--
Les Cargill

Lots of bands have made careers out of this kind of setup. Too old to
rock and roll?

is there something wrong with the sound of marshall and ampeg amps? I
was under the impression that they are just about the tops in their
respective fields of amplification. What sort of guitar and bass amps
do you like Mike?
later,
m

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?

....and what sort of music are you speaking of, since I only mentioned
the amps we use? My, aren't we being close minded today...
later,
m

To whoever it was that copied that long gearslutz post...

Isn't it considered good form to credit the writer? I went to all the
trouble to share my experiences with this piece of gear with an
extensive review, and you lift it and paste it here without giving me
any credit at all? That doesn't seem like the right way to do things.
I'm glad you liked my post well enough to republish it here. But
please, next time, tell everyone who wrote it.

To the other people who have commented:

There are issues with the system, and a lot of it has to do with
pricing and a few "missing" features. But this product is not pure
hype or crap. The sound of these units is exponentially better than
some of the typical boxes that many small bands with self-contained
systems are using (like the JBL Eons, for instance).

I can understand why people who have had a long history of observing
Bose might be very skeptical. After three black-faced ADATs, a 3630,
and an X-2 board, I swore I would never own another thing that had any
association with Alesis. Yet, sitting in my rack today is a VIPRE.
It's stupid to ignore past track records, but it is almost as foolish
to dogmatically reject anything purely on the basis of it's name -
because, like the VIPRE, every once in a while a swine factory
produces a pearl. (How's that for a butchered metaphor!)

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1071141909k@trad...
In article writes:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?

Ha!

very crotchety and curmudgeonly...but also very funny...

i give it a thumbs up.

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1071141909k@trad...
In article writes:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?

Sure beats listening to folk music g

Analogeezer

chetatkinsdiet wrote:
is there something wrong with the sound of marshall and ampeg amps? I
was under the impression that they are just about the tops in their
respective fields of amplification. What sort of guitar and bass amps
do you like Mike?

The only problem with the sound of them is that there is a whole lot of
it.

And small PA rigs that are designed for acoustic music just can't compete.
Which means vocals disappear or the PA clips.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

is there something wrong with the sound of marshall and ampeg amps? I
was under the impression that they are just about the tops in their
respective fields of amplification. What sort of guitar and bass amps
do you like Mike?

Any one with the volume control turned down to a sensible level. It's
not that I don't like Marshall amps, but most people seem to use them
because they can (and do) sound loud. It doesn't make for a good mix
with speakers (the subject of this message thread) that aren't
designed to compete with a loud instrument amplifer. Nor do I like to
listen to music at the volume that's usually required to keep balanced
with a Marshall amp running at the volume that most people find
effective for that kind of amp.

I suspect that the Bose cylindrical speakers would work well with a
singer playing an acoustic guitar - no Marshall required.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

with unquestioned accuracy of thought, littledog replied:

SNIP

I can understand why people who have had a long history of observing
Bose might be very skeptical. After three black-faced ADATs, a 3630,
and an X-2 board, I swore I would never own another thing that had any
association with Alesis. Yet, sitting in my rack today is a VIPRE.
It's stupid to ignore past track records, but it is almost as foolish
to dogmatically reject anything purely on the basis of it's name -
because, like the VIPRE, every once in a while a swine factory
produces a pearl. (How's that for a butchered metaphor!)

Man, I Really wanted an Alesis X-2 board. It looked so cool. What was
wrong with it? Was it just that it was meant for ADATs which came and went
(I still have 2 black face units and a BRC I haven't used in years) or was
the board badly made? Just curious.

At the same NAMM show first I saw the Alesis board, I bought my first
Digital Editor from Hybrid Arts, "Digital Master" for Atari St computers.
It was slow but it was an incredible system. I would fly my ADAT tracks to
the Atari through an A1 to edit and then had the digital computer and the
MIDI computer running with ADAT through SMPTE. It was a great system.

Patric

I was really just giving you a hard time over your response....I
didn't actually think that these were for rock bands. Your comments
earlier seemed to say that you couldn't possibly like any music played
on Marshall or Ampeg amps. That seemed funny since that's most rock n
roll music. Even most of the alt county acts use this gear....wilco,
ryan adams, etc...
We gotta get the jabs into you "old guys" when we can.....
later,
m

You know...maybe this is a good topic for another thread, but your
response just got me to thinking. You earlier made it clear that you
don't care for loud music. Especially of the Marshall & SVT crowd.
Then you just replied to that saying that you'd prefer any guitar amp
turned down to a "sensible level". You being an engineer and most of
this group, I'd assume...aren't we all after "the tone"? We hit
analog tape hard to give the music tape compression. We slam mic pres
to give stuff growl....there's tons of other examples of pushing gear
to the limits for "that sound". It's not the volume as much as the
sound and tone you get from cranking an amp up to the limits. Would
you all not agree that there's no way to get that power tube sound
from a guitar amp than to actually turn it up? Master volume amps
just seem to drive the preamp tubes and sound horrible to me. When I
think of all the greats I think of their tone which is usually
accomplished by turning up a tube amp to the point of where the power
tubes are saturated. Hendrix, SRV, Van Halen, Beck, Clapton, etc....
There's no question that Hendrix would sound great on a Danelectro and
a Fender Champ, but come on...the Marshalls with the knobs dimed make
him that much more interesting.
later,
m

In article ,
(chetatkinsdiet) wrote:

You know...maybe this is a good topic for another thread, but your
response just got me to thinking. You earlier made it clear that you
don't care for loud music. Especially of the Marshall & SVT crowd.
Then you just replied to that saying that you'd prefer any guitar amp
turned down to a "sensible level". You being an engineer and most of
this group, I'd assume...aren't we all after "the tone"? We hit
analog tape hard to give the music tape compression. We slam mic pres
to give stuff growl....there's tons of other examples of pushing gear
to the limits for "that sound". It's not the volume as much as the
sound and tone you get from cranking an amp up to the limits. Would
you all not agree that there's no way to get that power tube sound
from a guitar amp than to actually turn it up? Master volume amps
just seem to drive the preamp tubes and sound horrible to me. When I
think of all the greats I think of their tone which is usually
accomplished by turning up a tube amp to the point of where the power
tubes are saturated. Hendrix, SRV, Van Halen, Beck, Clapton, etc....
There's no question that Hendrix would sound great on a Danelectro and
a Fender Champ, but come on...the Marshalls with the knobs dimed make
him that much more interesting.
later,
m

I guess I for one just disagree
I just don't care for "tone" that is more distortion than music
It hurts to listen to it
I don't care if it is clapton,srv,hendrix,cobain or zappa
IMO it is not musical
it is just annoying

....and what is bose asking for these things again? $8K? For $8K, I
can put together a PA that is very well matched for anything from a
coffee house to a Marshall stack.
later,
m

In article writes:

Your comments
earlier seemed to say that you couldn't possibly like any music played
on Marshall or Ampeg amps.

Well, I don't think I ever saw Doc Watson play through a Marshall
(though I know he was playing electric guitar in a bar band before he
was discovered by the folk), though I believe I have seen him play
with an electric bass player who used an Ampeg, probably a B15.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

You know...maybe this is a good topic for another thread, but your
response just got me to thinking. You earlier made it clear that you
don't care for loud music. Especially of the Marshall & SVT crowd.
Then you just replied to that saying that you'd prefer any guitar amp
turned down to a "sensible level". You being an engineer and most of
this group, I'd assume...aren't we all after "the tone"?

Remember, you're talking about me, not everyone. I don't like a lot of
the music with "the tone" and I don't attempt to record it. I'll admit
to enjoying a good blues band for a little while, but it gets tiring
fast because of the volume (which, as we all know, is for the sake of
"the tone").

We hit
analog tape hard to give the music tape compression.

Right, but we can turn down the monitor level.

We slam mic pres
to give stuff growl....

Well, I don't, but if I did, I'd turn down the monitor level.

there's tons of other examples of pushing gear
to the limits for "that sound". It's not the volume as much as the
sound and tone you get from cranking an amp up to the limits.

The problem, at least with guitars, is that a fully cranked amplifier
is damn loud, and a really fleapowered one, while it may sound
interesting when fully cranked (and not too loud) just doesn't have
"that sound." Part of it involves the acoustic feedback between the
speaker and the guitar. Jimi Hendrix couldn't do what he made famous
at low volume.

Would
you all not agree that there's no way to get that power tube sound
from a guitar amp than to actually turn it up?

I would.

But is it possible to turn it up without being too loud? Usuall not
for me. Isolation rooms are a good solution (and you can turn down the
monitor volume in the control room. You can't do that in a club,
however.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

But George, again you're generalizing. Just because I said our band
uses these amps, everyone assumes they know what it sounds like. A
vintage Marshall amp has bite, but is not the overly distorted high
end fizz that you hear with a lot of bands. That is what you get with
all of these newer triple rectified Boogie amps and newer amps with
master volume controls that do produce this sort of tone. If you
really heard a vintage, non-master vol Marshall played by someone that
knows what they're doing and...God forbid, uses their tone and volume
knob on their guitar to adjust the stage volume, you'd be surprised.
The trouble is, you're better off buying lotto tickets, because I'll
admit that's pretty hard to find these days. But, if you do happen to
catch a good player on good equipment like this, it's something
special.
That's all I'm saying.
later,
m

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?

Sure beats listening to folk music g

But wait a minute...did Dylan play a Marshall when he went electric?
Maybe it was just a Twin turned up loud...big difference you know....
Oh no....now we can't like him either....bummer.

In article ,
(chetatkinsdiet) wrote:

But George, again you're generalizing. Just because I said our band
uses these amps, everyone assumes they know what it sounds like. A
vintage Marshall amp has bite, but is not the overly distorted high
end fizz that you hear with a lot of bands. That is what you get with
all of these newer triple rectified Boogie amps and newer amps with
master volume controls that do produce this sort of tone. If you
really heard a vintage, non-master vol Marshall played by someone that
knows what they're doing and...God forbid, uses their tone and volume
knob on their guitar to adjust the stage volume, you'd be surprised.
The trouble is, you're better off buying lotto tickets, because I'll
admit that's pretty hard to find these days. But, if you do happen to
catch a good player on good equipment like this, it's something
special.
That's all I'm saying.
later,
m

I have heard it over and over again I work with guys who are the REAL
DEAL
BUT
after working with some of the best hindustani musicians in the world,
R&R just annoys me, leaves me bored experiance a master on a sarod live
you will never consider (insert any guitar player of your choice here)
accomplishments in quite the same light ever again
Peace
George

In article ,
(chetatkinsdiet) wrote:

I don't think it would work with our band...unless it's got enough
juice to be heard over our marshall 1/2 stack, ampeg svt rig and my
loud ass drums.

It won't. But then who wants to listen to music like that anyway?

Sure beats listening to folk music g

But wait a minute...did Dylan play a Marshall when he went electric?
Maybe it was just a Twin turned up loud...big difference you know....
Oh no....now we can't like him either....bummer.

of all the things I have ever heard ,thought,read,experianced or smelled
about his Bobness, tone was never one of them.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1071271540k@trad...

But is it possible to turn it up without being too loud? Usuall not
for me. Isolation rooms are a good solution (and you can turn down the
monitor volume in the control room. You can't do that in a club,
however.

For a long time, I figured the music was too loud because I was old and
possibly not quite hip enough. Then, a couple months ago, our vocalist --
half my age -- mentioned to me that she was out hearing protection, because
while the band that followed us was cranked, everybody was borrowing from
her cache of ear plugs.

Most of your audience wearing hearing protection: a hint you might be
turned a bit too far.

A livingroom size club is not a good zone for living in clip.

This completes my semi-annual rant about loud bands for this year.

dtk

(chetatkinsdiet) wrote in message m...
...and what is bose asking for these things again? $8K? For $8K, I
can put together a PA that is very well matched for anything from a
coffee house to a Marshall stack.
later,
m

The basic unit is selling at guitar center for around $1600 per unit,
but assuming you will want one subwoofer per tower, and the cost is
closer to $2000 per unit. In pracitce, you may want more than one sub
per unit, especially for the bass player and the drummer - so could be
even more expensive in the end.

The idea is not to use big baqckline speakers - but instead to use
small amps or amps with speaker soaks to get the sound you want at a
relatively low stage volume, and then mic them and send them through
the Bose units. This meant the audience and other band memebers were
still hearing mostly the Bose sound, not the direct sound from the
guitar amp. The system is definitely not designed to be used with
Marshall stacks set at 11. But the theory is you can end up with an
even better sound. My own evaluation is you definitely end up with a
more euphonic sound, but everyone may not be looking for "euphony".
Sometimes there is no substitute for 11.

As far as the question about the Alesis X2, I too fell for the fact
that the board had the look and feel and many of the features of a
$40,000 board and yet sold for only $8000. The main problem I had
with it was that at least one mic preamp would blow up per week. They
were, fortunately, a modular design, so I would make weekly runs down
to UPS and send back my blown channel strips and get new ones sent to
me in return. This lasted about a year, until an Alesis tech guy was
kind enought to alert me to the fact that Alesis was about to stop
making the modules (and the board) and soon they would no longer have
any to swap. I immediately sold the board for $2000 and was happy to
get that much. (There were other lesser problems too, but the fragile
mic pre was the fatal flaw.)

My B15 is a great sounding bass amp. I can't really think of a better
balance of tone and small size.
later,
m

"dt king" wrote in message
news:N3xCb.379415$ao4.1267397@attbi_s51...
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1071271540k@trad...

But is it possible to turn it up without being too loud? Usuall not
for me. Isolation rooms are a good solution (and you can turn down the
monitor volume in the control room. You can't do that in a club,
however.

For a long time, I figured the music was too loud because I was old and
possibly not quite hip enough. Then, a couple months ago, our vocalist --
half my age -- mentioned to me that she was out hearing protection,
because
while the band that followed us was cranked, everybody was borrowing from
her cache of ear plugs.

Most of your audience wearing hearing protection: a hint you might be
turned a bit too far.

A livingroom size club is not a good zone for living in clip.

This completes my semi-annual rant about loud bands for this year.

I use ear plugs even at shows like Eddie From Ohio and AK
I have to cover my ears during applause
and that Damn guy/gal who whistles through his/her fingers right behind me
at every show should be freaking strung up by thier reproductive
organs!!!!!!!
George


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We are in total agreement on all counts.
Even though I do play in one of these loud r&r bands, I do wear ear
protection. (i'm approaching 40, so I'm really an old fart compared
to most at the clubs we're playing at.)
Also, I can't remember the last show I went to with music like this
playing as an audience member. It's too loud, I hate the crowds, the
smoke and really just about everything about it.
The last show I went to was Ravi Shankar a month or so back.
OH MY GOSH.....I'M TURNING INTO YOU AND GEORGE!!!!
Haha, I could do worse.
Thanks a lot for the fun conversation on this thread.
later,
m

"chetatkinsdiet" wrote in message
...
We are in total agreement on all counts.
Even though I do play in one of these loud r&r bands, I do wear ear
protection. (i'm approaching 40, so I'm really an old fart compared
to most at the clubs we're playing at.)
Also, I can't remember the last show I went to with music like this
playing as an audience member. It's too loud, I hate the crowds, the
smoke and really just about everything about it.
The last show I went to was Ravi Shankar a month or so back.
OH MY GOSH.....I'M TURNING INTO YOU AND GEORGE!!!!
Haha, I could do worse.
Thanks a lot for the fun conversation on this thread.
later,

I have some archive recording I made at the hindustani shows I engineered if
you'd care for a copy email me at

also have scottish pipe and drum compition
though no class one bands
these are archive board recordings direct to two track not dressed up
multitrack stuff
George


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The sticks are filled with little tiny speakers. They are placed behind
the musicians on stage, so what the musicians hear is exactly what the
house hears. They broadcast 180 degrees in the horizontal plane without
any high frequency roll-off, yet in the vertical plane they have a
fairly narrow focus to minimize ceiling and floor reflections. The
feedback rejection is pretty amazing, as you have to work real hard to
get them to feed back, which isn't easy.

I would have suspected the opposite, given that a vocal mic is in front
of the speaker. Interesting.

In article writes:

I can understand why people who have had a long history of observing
Bose might be very skeptical. After three black-faced ADATs, a 3630,
and an X-2 board, I swore I would never own another thing that had any
association with Alesis. Yet, sitting in my rack today is a VIPRE.

Well, you have to consider who designed it and why, for a short time,
the VIPRE was marketed by Alesis.


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However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
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you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

George wrote in message ...


I guess I for one just disagree
I just don't care for "tone" that is more distortion than music
It hurts to listen to it
I don't care if it is clapton,srv,hendrix,cobain or zappa
IMO it is not musical
it is just annoying


Dad?!?! What are you doing on this newsgroup?

"Buster Mudd" wrote in message
om...
George wrote in message
...


I guess I for one just disagree
I just don't care for "tone" that is more distortion than music
It hurts to listen to it
I don't care if it is clapton,srv,hendrix,cobain or zappa
IMO it is not musical
it is just annoying


Dad?!?! What are you doing on this newsgroup?

yup ,when I was a kid I though I knew it all too
George


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(Analogeezer) wrote in message . com...
I saw this thing advertised in a Geetar Center flyer, figured it must
be a POS.

I don't have a direct link (their website kinda sucks in that way) but
if you go to Bose.com you can find it easily enough.

It's a pole on a base (with amplifier), then there are subwoofer
modules you can buy (they look quite small).

They claim with a cylindrical pattern you don't get any feedback and
you no longer need mains and monitors, and can use less backline gear.

Any comments?

Is this thing based on sound design/physics concepts or just some
fancy POS to sell to dumbass coffee house acts?

It's not very cheap, the system with one sub runs about two grand.

Analogeezer


Ok I saw one in a store, it's actually pretty huge. The ad made it
look barely larger than a mic stand, but the pole part is over 6 feet
tall, the sub is about as large around as a truck tire.

Yeah, lots of little speakers in the pole, and the sub is about the
size of a regular truck tire.

Looks like a decent system for a low volume gig...after I saw it I
realized it's worth closer to what they want for it.

Analogeezer

....after I saw it I
realized it's worth closer to what they want for it.

Analogeezer

it costs what they want for it
wether it is worth what they want for it , the jury is still out on that
point
and if it does what they say it will do , the feild reports are saying NO
george