About Us

I was looking through the archives to see when (or more appropriately,
*if*) Arny was ever not a thin-skinned, paranoid, anger-filled
hatemonger.

The answer, it appears, is never. Nearly nine years ago to the day
Arnold B. Krueger was as deranged as he is now.

Sad.

************************************************** **************************
From: Arnold B. Krueger
Date: Thurs, Mar 27 1997 12:00 am
Email: "Arnold B. Krueger"

Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo, Inc.) wrote in
article
...
Wher is the personal attack, JJ? I just said that there is no surprise
that your buddy Carlstrom agrees with you - in fact he parrots your
position. That's an attack? Huh???
Equating a person with a dumb animal is obviously a personal attack.
Duhhh!
I seem to recall you pulling down your pants in protest when I made a
very
distant link between one of your posts and a certain barnyard animal.
If
that gets a reaction from you, how is it different when you make a
direct
connection between Dave and a bird with a brain a tad bigger than a
pea?
I've known Dave for about 20ish years and a few SMWTMS meetings after I
met
him he made some useful comments in my presence about problems with
wires,
connectors, and corrosion. So he says the same thing 20 years later and
he
is parroting something posted this week? GMAB!
If I applied the same logic you are suggesting to you and certain like

minded individuals, I would come up with this list of strange fowls:
Derrida, Zipser, LuciferSam, Armand, Wolph, Goyo, Mark, Dickson, Booey,

Hartlieb, and maybe a few more. You guys often travel in a pack,
frequently
making personal attacks in pairs on the same posts, mostly supporting
each
other, and with a common deconstructionist anti-intellectual
anti-science
agenda. Futhermore, we know for sure some of these names belong to the
same
person, and some of the rest are suspicious.
So what is your point, Zip?

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
ps.com...
I was looking through the archives to see when (or more appropriately,
*if*) Arny was ever not a thin-skinned, paranoid, anger-filled
hatemonger.

The answer, it appears, is never. Nearly nine years ago to the day
Arnold B. Krueger was as deranged as he is now.

Sad.

************************************************** **************************
From: Arnold B. Krueger
Date: Thurs, Mar 27 1997 12:00 am
Email: "Arnold B. Krueger"

Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo, Inc.) wrote in
article
...
Wher is the personal attack, JJ? I just said that there is no surprise
that your buddy Carlstrom agrees with you - in fact he parrots your
position. That's an attack? Huh???
Equating a person with a dumb animal is obviously a personal attack.
Duhhh!
I seem to recall you pulling down your pants in protest when I made a
very
distant link between one of your posts and a certain barnyard animal.
If
that gets a reaction from you, how is it different when you make a
direct
connection between Dave and a bird with a brain a tad bigger than a
pea?
I've known Dave for about 20ish years and a few SMWTMS meetings after I
met
him he made some useful comments in my presence about problems with
wires,
connectors, and corrosion. So he says the same thing 20 years later and
he
is parroting something posted this week? GMAB!
If I applied the same logic you are suggesting to you and certain like

minded individuals, I would come up with this list of strange fowls:
Derrida, Zipser, LuciferSam, Armand, Wolph, Goyo, Mark, Dickson, Booey,

Hartlieb, and maybe a few more. You guys often travel in a pack,
frequently
making personal attacks in pairs on the same posts, mostly supporting
each
other, and with a common deconstructionist anti-intellectual
anti-science
agenda. Futhermore, we know for sure some of these names belong to the
same
person, and some of the rest are suspicious.
So what is your point, Zip?

And as usual you don't have all the facts or don't care. Note all the
people listed, Zip, Booey, Derrida, et al, were all ****ed off from the
moment somebody showed up who actually knew the science of audio. Zip sent
me nasty mail for even mentioning ABX. Derrida was know for enormously long
screeds against Arny and ABX. The rest were just generally pricks who
attacked anybody that didn't toe the subjectivist line. Dig deeper and you
will find the truth, not that you want to of course.

Distilling the Bug Eater's latest Kroopologist rant is easier than it used
to be.

all ****ed off from the
moment somebody showed up who actually knew the science of audio.

A new entry is needed for the psychological reference book (you know the
one, Mickey -- Dr. Richman used to terrorize you with it). Here's my first
casting:

McMickeyism: syndrome of high-functioning retardation

Sounds contradictory, but apparently your keepers let you log on to the
Internet at will, and operate a motor vehicle at times, and even vote in
elections. And yet we know you're retarded. Paradoxical? Maybe.

--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

Shhhh! quoted Phoebe:

I see no difference, other than in the details, between a middius
and a McKelvey, myself.

LOL! Good retrieval.

Time for the McMickey spin. I predict duh-Mikey will bleat about "science"
again, and probably "reality". The Bug Eater is always good for a laugh.

--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

Smart guy.

Smart enough to know that what Arny says about Audio is to be believed.
They didn't argue about that, they argued about other things and you notice
that he did include Middius as one of the people he didn't want to put up
with.

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

You should also be aware of the fact that JJ while very smart, was not
always IMO the best judge of character.

How could he be? He disagreed with you. In doing that, I (according to
you) have lost my integrity.

You should further note that I'm not generally found endorsing Arny's
behavior, so much as his audio expertise. There's also the fact that it's
still possible for people to killfile him if he's so repulsive, or just use
some self control and don't respond to whatever you think will lead to a
fight.

That's a sword that cuts two ways.

And if not responding to that with which you disagree makes you a
'coward' then you need to call Arny to task for his poor behavior.

None of the behavior that goes on here would be engaged in, or even
tolerated in the real world, it's amazing how we all behave when nobody can
actually do anything about it.

I agree with you on this.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
Smart guy.

Smart enough to know that what Arny says about Audio is to be believed.
They didn't argue about that, they argued about other things and you
notice
that he did include Middius as one of the people he didn't want to put up
with.

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of anything.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And yo don't understand me.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

You should also be aware of the fact that JJ while very smart, was not
always IMO the best judge of character.

How could he be? He disagreed with you. In doing that, I (according to
you) have lost my integrity.

He disagreed with me about things other that audio, on audio subjects we
were pretty much in synch.

I never begrudged him having different opinions on anything as I don't here.
What I dislike and take issue with is people who have no other agenda than
to be insulting and sometimes disgusting.

You should further note that I'm not generally found endorsing Arny's
behavior, so much as his audio expertise. There's also the fact that it's
still possible for people to killfile him if he's so repulsive, or just
use
some self control and don't respond to whatever you think will lead to a
fight.

That's a sword that cuts two ways.

Yet none of the people who are so distrurbed by Arny have ever seen fit to
use it.
I suspect that it is because they just like to have somebody they think they
can kick around.

And if not responding to that with which you disagree makes you a
'coward' then you need to call Arny to task for his poor behavior.

I don't NEED to do anything of the sort, he's a big boy and can take care of
himself, nor would anything I say make any difference anyway.

None of the behavior that goes on here would be engaged in, or even
tolerated in the real world, it's amazing how we all behave when nobody
can
actually do anything about it.

I agree with you on this.

In article om,
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:

From:
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 8:41 pm
Email: "

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of anything.

There is no point in it.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And yo don't understand me.

I understand what I see. I see posts from JJ that indicate he did not
approve of the dogma and near-religious fanatacism of either party. I
see that Arny, while technically competent, has a destructive and
antisocial personality. And I see you being willing to overlook
insulting and disgusting behavior from him.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

I watched the initial thread with Jenn. She stated that to her violins
sounded better to her on high-quality LPs. She very clearly stated that
she did not kow why, and that she isn't very technical.

You and Arny attacked. After a while, one of you asked if she thought
the reason why was for technical reasons or not. She said, "I don't
know. I suppose so."

In your minds, that was the green light to attack. Now, cloaked in the
self-righteousness of disproving a 'technical claim' you could go in
with all guns blazing. Any idiot could see that she was expressing a
preference.

That seems to pretty much sum it up.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
ps.com...
From:
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 8:41 pm
Email: "

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of anything.

There is no point in it.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And you don't understand me.

I understand what I see. I see posts from JJ that indicate he did not
approve of the dogma and near-religious fanatacism of either party. I
see that Arny, while technically competent, has a destructive and
antisocial personality. And I see you being willing to overlook
insulting and disgusting behavior from him.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and
AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so
desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

I watched the initial thread with Jenn. She stated that to her violins
sounded better to her on high-quality LPs. She very clearly stated that
she did not kow why, and that she isn't very technical.

You and Arny attacked. After a while, one of you asked if she thought
the reason why was for technical reasons or not. She said, "I don't
know. I suppose so."

I am still frankly amazed that anybody could claim that something with many
orders of magnitude more distortion could sound more real, which is
essentially all I ver siad.

In your minds, that was the green light to attack. Now, cloaked in the
self-righteousness of disproving a 'technical claim' you could go in
with all guns blazing. Any idiot could see that she was expressing a
preference.

Thanks for admitting you're an idiot.
It was not a prefernce, it was a claim of technical superiority.

But after you both pushed, cajoled, shoved and attacked her
into making a 'technical claim' your true colors came out.

Jenn has now been accused of flaming, insulting, and other such
nonsense. She has, IMO, treated both of you with far more courtesy than
either of you deserve.

If you look at the record, I did not post against Arny until I saw
that. Now I see Arny and his real personality. Look at a post called
'124's self-awareness test' for yet another example of his behavior.

You should also be aware of the fact that JJ while very smart, was not
always IMO the best judge of character.

How could he be? He disagreed with you. In doing that, I (according to
you) have lost my integrity.

He disagreed with me about things other that audio, on audio subjects we
were pretty much in synch.

But this isn't about audio. Neither, it seems, was JJ's disapproval of
you.

And yet we are cordial with each other now.

I never begrudged him having different opinions on anything as I don't
here.
What I dislike and take issue with is people who have no other agenda than
to be insulting and sometimes disgusting.

I am being brave. I have no 'agenda' here other than to point out that
which I perceive to be preference bashing, and needless slime toward
people's preference.

So now we know that your perception is off.

If you 'get' to behave as you and Arny do, I 'get' to behave as I do.

There's no way to stop you, but I don't have to read what you write.

We all 'get' to do as we please.

Never said otherwise, only that some ways of behaving are simply cruelty for
the sake of it, somethin I do not engage in.

You should further note that I'm not generally found endorsing Arny's
behavior, so much as his audio expertise. There's also the fact that
it's
still possible for people to killfile him if he's so repulsive, or just
use some self control and don't respond to whatever you think will lead
to a
fight.

That's a sword that cuts two ways.

Yet none of the people who are so distrurbed by Arny have ever seen fit to
use it.
I suspect that it is because they just like to have somebody they think
they
can kick around.

Nor have you yourself used it.

I've killfiled a couple of people because they were absolutely pointless,
I'm considering a couple more.

Personally, if you'll notice, I attack Arny when he's being a jerk to
someone. Unfortunately, that applies to a very high percentage of his
posts.

But not to anybody else? There's that bad perception again.

And in looking through the archives, that seems to have been the
case since he started posting here.

And if not responding to that with which you disagree makes you a
'coward' then you need to call Arny to task for his poor behavior.

I don't NEED to do anything of the sort, he's a big boy and can take care
of
himself, nor would anything I say make any difference anyway.

Ah, but Arny said (and you agreed) that Jenn, by not posting against
every post that she disagrees with, is a coward.

Never said that. I said that if you are going to complain about one person,
youneed to put the others who are also disagreeable into context. In
context, Arny is hardly the most disagreeable person here.

She was berated, and
IIRC told that by not posting against SHP and his trash that she
implicitly, therefore, agreed with it.

Not by me.

That's being hypocritical. You can't have it both ways.

Neither can you.

In article ,
" wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
ps.com...
From:
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 8:41 pm
Email: "

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of anything.

There is no point in it.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And you don't understand me.

I understand what I see. I see posts from JJ that indicate he did not
approve of the dogma and near-religious fanatacism of either party. I
see that Arny, while technically competent, has a destructive and
antisocial personality. And I see you being willing to overlook
insulting and disgusting behavior from him.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and
AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so
desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

I watched the initial thread with Jenn. She stated that to her violins
sounded better to her on high-quality LPs. She very clearly stated that
she did not kow why, and that she isn't very technical.

You and Arny attacked. After a while, one of you asked if she thought
the reason why was for technical reasons or not. She said, "I don't
know. I suppose so."

I am still frankly amazed that anybody could claim that something with many
orders of magnitude more distortion could sound more real, which is
essentially all I ver siad.

In your minds, that was the green light to attack. Now, cloaked in the
self-righteousness of disproving a 'technical claim' you could go in
with all guns blazing. Any idiot could see that she was expressing a
preference.

Thanks for admitting you're an idiot.
It was not a prefernce, it was a claim of technical superiority.

Incorrect.

Jenn said to the Bug Eater:

It was not a prefernce, it was a claim of technical superiority.

Incorrect.

Have you noticed duh-Mikey imitating your use of the terse reply
"Incorrect"? This might be a sign of progress. It's been years since he
parroted anybody other than the Krooborg.

--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
" wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in
message
ps.com...
From:
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 8:41 pm
Email: "

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with
Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of
anything.

There is no point in it.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that
this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And you don't understand me.

I understand what I see. I see posts from JJ that indicate he did not
approve of the dogma and near-religious fanatacism of either party. I
see that Arny, while technically competent, has a destructive and
antisocial personality. And I see you being willing to overlook
insulting and disgusting behavior from him.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and
AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so
desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

I watched the initial thread with Jenn. She stated that to her violins
sounded better to her on high-quality LPs. She very clearly stated that
she did not kow why, and that she isn't very technical.

You and Arny attacked. After a while, one of you asked if she thought
the reason why was for technical reasons or not. She said, "I don't
know. I suppose so."

I am still frankly amazed that anybody could claim that something with
many
orders of magnitude more distortion could sound more real, which is
essentially all I ver siad.

In your minds, that was the green light to attack. Now, cloaked in the
self-righteousness of disproving a 'technical claim' you could go in
with all guns blazing. Any idiot could see that she was expressing a
preference.

Thanks for admitting you're an idiot.
It was not a prefernce, it was a claim of technical superiority.

Incorrect.

An opinion you get to have.

In article ,
" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
" wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in
message
ps.com...
From:
Date: Sun, Mar 26 2006 8:41 pm
Email: "

Have you happened to notice that I generally do not disagree with
Arny
about audio? No, I suppose not.

Actually I have noticed that you don't talk TO him about much of
anything.

There is no point in it.

You see, nob, if you're dying of thirst in the middle of the desert
even someone who brings water which is poisoned is not being helpful,
and is likely actually causing more damage. It appears to me that
this
JJ felt the same about you and Arny as I do: the water you bring is
poisoned. Further, he appears to have fully understood preference,
while you and Arny clearly do not.

Then 3 things come to mind:
You don't understand JJ.
You don't understand Arny.
And you don't understand me.

I understand what I see. I see posts from JJ that indicate he did not
approve of the dogma and near-religious fanatacism of either party. I
see that Arny, while technically competent, has a destructive and
antisocial personality. And I see you being willing to overlook
insulting and disgusting behavior from him.

Not all that surprising that you don't seem to get the fact that I and
AFAIk
Arny have nothing against anybody having any prefernce that they so
desire.
I've said this many times, and it is still the truth.

I watched the initial thread with Jenn. She stated that to her violins
sounded better to her on high-quality LPs. She very clearly stated that
she did not kow why, and that she isn't very technical.

You and Arny attacked. After a while, one of you asked if she thought
the reason why was for technical reasons or not. She said, "I don't
know. I suppose so."

I am still frankly amazed that anybody could claim that something with
many
orders of magnitude more distortion could sound more real, which is
essentially all I ver siad.

In your minds, that was the green light to attack. Now, cloaked in the
self-righteousness of disproving a 'technical claim' you could go in
with all guns blazing. Any idiot could see that she was expressing a
preference.

Thanks for admitting you're an idiot.
It was not a prefernce, it was a claim of technical superiority.

Incorrect.

An opinion you get to have.

Yes, but one might understand that my opinion might carry considerable
weight with this question since it was **I** who made the statement. I
was given (by Arny) a choice of, IIRC, "does the fact that you prefer
the best sounding LPs to CDs reflect your imagination or a technical
matter." I replied with something like, "I don't know, but since it's
not my imagination, it must be technical, given the choices you have
offered." I didn't claim a general superiority of any medium, and you
won't be able to find an instance where I have.

From: Jenn
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 11:59 am
Email: Jenn

Yes, but one might understand that my opinion might carry considerable
weight with this question since it was **I** who made the statement.

Sorry, but that's only an opinion that you get to have. My
interpretation of what you meant to say takes precedence over what you
think you actually meant to say, or over what you actually said,
whether you (or I) meant to say it or not. And I mean it!

I was given (by Arny) a choice of, IIRC, "does the fact that you prefer
the best sounding LPs to CDs reflect your imagination or a technical
matter." I replied with something like, "I don't know, but since it's
not my imagination, it must be technical, given the choices you have
offered."

While that's all very interesting and while that may also make you feel
better about your purchase of obsolete and inferior technology, it's a
red herring strawman ad hominem attack thread. Are insults all that you
have to throw around now? That tells me that you're on your last gasp
as far as your credibility is concerned, which is of course none. Might
I suggest that you study some logic and get back to me.

I didn't claim a general superiority of any medium, and you
won't be able to find an instance where I have.

Really? What about this:

************************************************** ******
From: Jenn
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 10:35 am
Email: Jenn
Groups: rec.audio.opinion

Incorrect.
************************************************** ******

Are you prepared to eat those words yet, Jenn? Are you now finally
ready to admit that this is all well beyond your pointed little head?

And while I do not mean to speak for my good buddy nob, let me just be
clear on one point: he agrees with everything I've said, 100%.

Two against one. We win.

In article .com,
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:

From: Jenn
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 11:59 am
Email: Jenn

Yes, but one might understand that my opinion might carry considerable
weight with this question since it was **I** who made the statement.

Sorry, but that's only an opinion that you get to have. My
interpretation of what you meant to say takes precedence over what you
think you actually meant to say, or over what you actually said,
whether you (or I) meant to say it or not. And I mean it!

I was given (by Arny) a choice of, IIRC, "does the fact that you prefer
the best sounding LPs to CDs reflect your imagination or a technical
matter." I replied with something like, "I don't know, but since it's
not my imagination, it must be technical, given the choices you have
offered."

While that's all very interesting and while that may also make you feel
better about your purchase of obsolete and inferior technology, it's a
red herring strawman ad hominem attack thread. Are insults all that you
have to throw around now? That tells me that you're on your last gasp
as far as your credibility is concerned, which is of course none.

Not only that, but I've had only mediocre success in life, am hearing
damaged , and, of course, am a coward.

Might
I suggest that you study some logic and get back to me.

I didn't claim a general superiority of any medium, and you
won't be able to find an instance where I have.

Really? What about this:

************************************************** ******
From: Jenn
Date: Tues, Mar 28 2006 10:35 am
Email: Jenn
Groups: rec.audio.opinion

Incorrect.
************************************************** ******

Are you prepared to eat those words yet, Jenn? Are you now finally
ready to admit that this is all well beyond your pointed little head?

And while I do not mean to speak for my good buddy nob, let me just be
clear on one point: he agrees with everything I've said, 100%.

Two against one. We win.

There it is. ;-)

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