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  #1   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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Default Overhead Mics - The Delima

I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..

So for the snare I already have a SM57.

Intend on using SM58's (maybe Beta 58's if i can) on the toms.

For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.

For the overheads. The only SDC available in the market off the shelf.
AKG C1000, Behringer B5, mayby the 451 (too expensive) and maybe the
Behringer ECM 8000.

I have spent the past hour and a half trying to fing something good
told about the C1000. Not happening. So that is out. I anywaz have not
as of yet heard an AKG (i have not heard much either) that I really
taken a liking too. The 414 i found to be a bit harsh. The 451 a bit
bright (but maybe i just over EQ'd it when i worked with them a while
back)

I also get to work in a studio with the Behringer B2Pro and dont like
it. so i am a bit sceptical of the B5 (it comes bundled with a omni
capsule for cheap).

Surprisingly ppl seem to mention use of the ECM8000 measurement mic
(have read so before also) though since it is omni i might be a little
conserned of getting more room that i like, espessially since i will
not using any great rooms.

So that leaves me with nothing.

If I can, I have the option of waiting through and perhaps being able
to order (while building a bank balance) a pair of sennheisers SDC's
e.g. e614.

However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???

Also i have read a lotta good bout the Octava 012. Now i was looking
for the home page and am a bit confuced. I have found the following
links :

http://www.oktava.net/
http://sound-room.com/ (also www.oktava.com )

While both companies seem to stock Oktavas, at oktava.net we have the
model MK012 while at Oktava.com (aka sound-room.com) we have the model
MC012 . The mics seem similar.

This passage from the sound room's home page had me particularly
confuced :

"Yes, we know....some large "chain" and "cataolgue sales" stores may
offer "OKTAVA" microphones. What makes our RTT/OKTAVA microphones
different is the selection process for specific acoustic and
electronic parameters, our own quality control and warranties, our
"cute" cedar boxes and the fact that we sell parts, do service and
even sell accessories for Russian mics - we'll even sell you those
cute cedar boxes for your mic collection! "

Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.

I would like these mics to be versatile, acoustic guitars etc

Please Advise.

Thank you.

Sidhu
  #2   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sidhu wrote:
I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..

So for the snare I already have a SM57.


Okay.

Intend on using SM58's (maybe Beta 58's if i can) on the toms.


The pattern is wide and they have no top end, but frankly you probably
don't even need to mike the toms.

For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.


Yes, but do you like the way it sounds? I would be very surprised if the
RE-20 wasn't available from a broadcast supply house in Delhi. And there
is always the Sennheiser 421, which is a great mike for other things.

For the overheads. The only SDC available in the market off the shelf.
AKG C1000, Behringer B5, mayby the 451 (too expensive) and maybe the
Behringer ECM 8000.


I don't think I would want any of these in my closet. The overheads are
the most important part of the kit sound and most of your drum sound is
coming through the overheads, so it's definitely worth spending the money
on good overheads.

You can get a good set of overheads and dispense with all the other mikes
if you're trying to cut costs.

I have spent the past hour and a half trying to fing something good
told about the C1000. Not happening. So that is out. I anywaz have not
as of yet heard an AKG (i have not heard much either) that I really
taken a liking too. The 414 i found to be a bit harsh. The 451 a bit
bright (but maybe i just over EQ'd it when i worked with them a while
back)


Which 414? Which 451? The original 451 was a colored but useful mike.
The new 451EB reissue bears no connection at all with the original 451.

The AKG C535 is actually not bad as an overhead in a pinch.

I also get to work in a studio with the Behringer B2Pro and dont like
it. so i am a bit sceptical of the B5 (it comes bundled with a omni
capsule for cheap).

Surprisingly ppl seem to mention use of the ECM8000 measurement mic
(have read so before also) though since it is omni i might be a little
conserned of getting more room that i like, espessially since i will
not using any great rooms.


The key to a great drum sound is a great room. The ECM8000 is the best
mike you will find down in the bargain basement price range. But it is
not a Schoeps by any stretch of the imagination.

However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???


No Crown CM-700? You can't get a Josephson Fed-Exed to you? I would think
with the dollar falling so low that the Josephson mikes would be very
cost-effective there right now.

Also i have read a lotta good bout the Octava 012. Now i was looking
for the home page and am a bit confuced. I have found the following
links :

http://www.oktava.net/
http://sound-room.com/ (also www.oktava.com )

While both companies seem to stock Oktavas, at oktava.net we have the
model MK012 while at Oktava.com (aka sound-room.com) we have the model
MC012 . The mics seem similar.


They are basically the same designs built to different specifications. The
Sound Room mikes are much better controlled and consistent than the ones
that McKay imports.

This passage from the sound room's home page had me particularly
confuced :

"Yes, we know....some large "chain" and "cataolgue sales" stores may
offer "OKTAVA" microphones. What makes our RTT/OKTAVA microphones
different is the selection process for specific acoustic and
electronic parameters, our own quality control and warranties, our
"cute" cedar boxes and the fact that we sell parts, do service and
even sell accessories for Russian mics - we'll even sell you those
cute cedar boxes for your mic collection! "

Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.


They are good people, and their mikes are consistent, and they stand behind
what they sell. But you should still listen to anything before you buy it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #3   Report Post  
Predrag Trpkov
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sidhu wrote:
I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..



For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.


Yes, but do you like the way it sounds? I would be very surprised if the
RE-20 wasn't available from a broadcast supply house in Delhi. And there
is always the Sennheiser 421, which is a great mike for other things.



The MD421 would cost at least double and the RE-20 at least four times what
he'd have to pay for the e602. I've been in a situation like his and know
that it's a major concern. And he hasn't sorted the overhead mics problem
yet. He'll have to like the e602.



However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???


No Crown CM-700? You can't get a Josephson Fed-Exed to you? I would

think
with the dollar falling so low that the Josephson mikes would be very
cost-effective there right now.



The AKG C451 is already out of his budget. The dollar should keep falling if
the Josephsons are to become affordable. It stopped falling too soon, if you
ask me.



Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.


They are good people, and their mikes are consistent, and they stand

behind
what they sell. But you should still listen to anything before you buy

it.


But if you have no way of listening before you buy and the budget is tight
and the job needs to be done (and again, I know very well what it's like),
go with the Oktavas, especially the Sound Room ones. If you can get them on
time, that is.

Predrag


  #4   Report Post  
Sander
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sidhu wrote:
The 414 i found to be a bit harsh. The 451 a bit
bright (but maybe i just over EQ'd it when i worked with them a while
back)


If you don't like bright mics like the 451EB the Rode NT5 might be a
very good choice for you.
A bit more expensive than the Behringer, a bit cheaper than the AKG
(sold/priced as a pair!).
IMO excellent mics (at their price point).

Sander
  #5   Report Post  
WillStG
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Sidhu)

I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..

So for the snare I already have a SM57.


Ok.

Intend on using SM58's (maybe Beta 58's if i can) on the toms.


Well I would try SM57's instead. They are a bit more forward sounding I
think, even though they use the same capsule as the 57. But a few Sennheiser
MD421's would be better, and you can use them for a lot of other things too,
horns, guitar amps...

For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.


I love the E602, it is very forgiving as far as where you place it so it's
much quicker in my experience to get a good kick sound than maybe with a D12 or
D112.

For the overheads. The only SDC available in the market off the shelf.
AKG C1000, Behringer B5, mayby the 451 (too expensive) and maybe the
Behringer ECM 8000.
I have spent the past hour and a half trying to fing something good
told about the C1000. Not happening. So that is out. I anywaz have not
as of yet heard an AKG (i have not heard much either) that I really
taken a liking too. The 414 i found to be a bit harsh. The 451 a bit
bright (but maybe i just over EQ'd it when i worked with them a while
back)

I also get to work in a studio with the Behringer B2Pro and dont like
it. so i am a bit sceptical of the B5 (it comes bundled with a omni
capsule for cheap).

Surprisingly ppl seem to mention use of the ECM8000 measurement mic
(have read so before also) though since it is omni i might be a little
conserned of getting more room that i like, espessially since i will
not using any great rooms.


So that leaves me with nothing.


414's sound decent at a distance, and harsh when you place them too
close. Give them a lot of air and mic the whole kit rather than just the
cymbals with them.

When I use omnis (like the ECM8000's) as drum overheads, I assume I am
going for a close miced drum kit sound and place the omnis more as cymbal mics.
I don't place them the way I would if I were trying to get the whole kit in
the overheads, like the Glyn John's type of minimalist 3 mics on the kit setup.
They are pretty good mics for loud sources, and if they are what is available
they are cheap enough.

Now i was looking
for the home page and am a bit confuced. I have found the following
links :

http://www.oktava.net/
http://sound-room.com/ (also www.oktava.com )

While both companies seem to stock Oktavas, at oktava.net we have the
model MK012 while at Oktava.com (aka sound-room.com) we have the model
MC012 . The mics seem similar.


Same mics, I like them, I think they have a "vintage" color. You pay a bit
more for quality control as far as matching pairs at Sound room, but it's worth
it in my estimation. On the other hand you could buy a pair of used Neumann
KM184's on ebay for around $900. or cheap pair of Marshall Electronics MXL603's
for $100 each at http://www.8thstreet.com.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits





  #6   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Predrag Trpkov wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sidhu wrote:
I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..


For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.


Yes, but do you like the way it sounds? I would be very surprised if the
RE-20 wasn't available from a broadcast supply house in Delhi. And there
is always the Sennheiser 421, which is a great mike for other things.


The MD421 would cost at least double and the RE-20 at least four times what
he'd have to pay for the e602. I've been in a situation like his and know
that it's a major concern. And he hasn't sorted the overhead mics problem
yet. He'll have to like the e602.


Yes, but they're also useful for other things. You get the 421 and you
have a nice kick drum mike, but also a nice vocal mike and a nice guitar
mike. You get the e602 and it's a perfectly respectable kick mike but not
very versatile.

I think the key to getting good sound on a budget is to get quality gear
that can do as many things as possible. That's why I am really gung-ho
about a good small diaphragm condenser.

However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???


No Crown CM-700? You can't get a Josephson Fed-Exed to you? I would

think
with the dollar falling so low that the Josephson mikes would be very
cost-effective there right now.


The AKG C451 is already out of his budget. The dollar should keep falling if
the Josephsons are to become affordable. It stopped falling too soon, if you
ask me.


I'd take one Josephson over two AKG C451s, personally. One good mono overhead
beats out two poorer ones in stereo.

Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.


They are good people, and their mikes are consistent, and they stand

behind
what they sell. But you should still listen to anything before you buy

it.

But if you have no way of listening before you buy and the budget is tight
and the job needs to be done (and again, I know very well what it's like),
go with the Oktavas, especially the Sound Room ones. If you can get them on
time, that is.


Take a train to Delhi and spend fifty bucks for a few hours at a studio
checking out their microphone cabinet! It's worth the money for the education.
A lot of studios will give you a huge break on the hourly rate for this sort
of thing if you want to come in during an otherwise open time.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #7   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Sidhu wrote:
I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..

So for the snare I already have a SM57.


Okay.

Intend on using SM58's (maybe Beta 58's if i can) on the toms.


The pattern is wide and they have no top end, but frankly you probably
don't even need to mike the toms.


Fair enough.



For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.


Yes, but do you like the way it sounds? I would be very surprised if the
RE-20 wasn't available from a broadcast supply house in Delhi. And there
is always the Sennheiser 421, which is a great mike for other things.




The RE-20 Is not affordable for me right now. And neither is the 421.
Maybe i can pik up one 421 II, but then ill have nothing left for
anything else. I have worked with the e602 before and got decent
results. Once i tried AB ing the AKG D12 and the Sennheiser MD421 fof
kik and found the 421 to be thin.



For the overheads. The only SDC available in the market off the shelf.
AKG C1000, Behringer B5, mayby the 451 (too expensive) and maybe the
Behringer ECM 8000.


I don't think I would want any of these in my closet. The overheads are
the most important part of the kit sound and most of your drum sound is
coming through the overheads, so it's definitely worth spending the money
on good overheads.

You can get a good set of overheads and dispense with all the other mikes
if you're trying to cut costs.



Maybe i can get the Studio Projects c4 pair (but i have the feeling
this too will be expensive)



I have spent the past hour and a half trying to fing something good
told about the C1000. Not happening. So that is out. I anywaz have not
as of yet heard an AKG (i have not heard much either) that I really
taken a liking too. The 414 i found to be a bit harsh. The 451 a bit
bright (but maybe i just over EQ'd it when i worked with them a while
back)


Which 414? Which 451? The original 451 was a colored but useful mike.
The new 451EB reissue bears no connection at all with the original 451.

The AKG C535 is actually not bad as an overhead in a pinch.




The 414 B ULS (this teaches me to be thorough. ) and the 451 EB. I
was advised about the 535 on another forum also. Will look into this
today.



I also get to work in a studio with the Behringer B2Pro and dont like
it. so i am a bit sceptical of the B5 (it comes bundled with a omni
capsule for cheap).

Surprisingly ppl seem to mention use of the ECM8000 measurement mic
(have read so before also) though since it is omni i might be a little
conserned of getting more room that i like, espessially since i will
not using any great rooms.


The key to a great drum sound is a great room. The ECM8000 is the best
mike you will find down in the bargain basement price range. But it is
not a Schoeps by any stretch of the imagination.


OK and the omni pattern should not be a bother?



However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???


No Crown CM-700? You can't get a Josephson Fed-Exed to you? I would think
with the dollar falling so low that the Josephson mikes would be very
cost-effective there right now.


None.


Also i have read a lotta good bout the Octava 012. Now i was looking
for the home page and am a bit confuced. I have found the following
links :

http://www.oktava.net/
http://sound-room.com/ (also www.oktava.com )

While both companies seem to stock Oktavas, at oktava.net we have the
model MK012 while at Oktava.com (aka sound-room.com) we have the model
MC012 . The mics seem similar.


They are basically the same designs built to different specifications. The
Sound Room mikes are much better controlled and consistent than the ones
that McKay imports.

This passage from the sound room's home page had me particularly
confuced :

"Yes, we know....some large "chain" and "cataolgue sales" stores may
offer "OKTAVA" microphones. What makes our RTT/OKTAVA microphones
different is the selection process for specific acoustic and
electronic parameters, our own quality control and warranties, our
"cute" cedar boxes and the fact that we sell parts, do service and
even sell accessories for Russian mics - we'll even sell you those
cute cedar boxes for your mic collection! "

Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.


They are good people, and their mikes are consistent, and they stand behind
what they sell. But you should still listen to anything before you buy it.



Very unfortunately. Very rarely a possiblility here.


--scott

  #8   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Predrag Trpkov wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sidhu wrote:
I need to put together a drum mic set ASAP. And i am foxed by lack of
availability. Most (of the very few) distributers here do not stock.
And order on prepayment only. Which usually takes a lot longer than
promised etc etc..


For the kik the only thing readily available is the Sennheiser e602. I
read up and i think it's ok.

Yes, but do you like the way it sounds? I would be very surprised if the
RE-20 wasn't available from a broadcast supply house in Delhi. And there
is always the Sennheiser 421, which is a great mike for other things.


The MD421 would cost at least double and the RE-20 at least four times what
he'd have to pay for the e602. I've been in a situation like his and know
that it's a major concern. And he hasn't sorted the overhead mics problem
yet. He'll have to like the e602.


Yes, but they're also useful for other things. You get the 421 and you
have a nice kick drum mike, but also a nice vocal mike and a nice guitar
mike. You get the e602 and it's a perfectly respectable kick mike but not
very versatile.

I think the key to getting good sound on a budget is to get quality gear
that can do as many things as possible. That's why I am really gung-ho
about a good small diaphragm condenser.

However, if push were to come to shove and i need to buy, which is the
better of the bad ???

No Crown CM-700? You can't get a Josephson Fed-Exed to you? I would

think
with the dollar falling so low that the Josephson mikes would be very
cost-effective there right now.


The AKG C451 is already out of his budget. The dollar should keep falling if
the Josephsons are to become affordable. It stopped falling too soon, if you
ask me.


I'd take one Josephson over two AKG C451s, personally. One good mono overhead
beats out two poorer ones in stereo.

Sound room saz they ship worldwide. So this could be a viable option.

They are good people, and their mikes are consistent, and they stand

behind
what they sell. But you should still listen to anything before you buy

it.

But if you have no way of listening before you buy and the budget is tight
and the job needs to be done (and again, I know very well what it's like),
go with the Oktavas, especially the Sound Room ones. If you can get them on
time, that is.


Take a train to Delhi and spend fifty bucks for a few hours at a studio
checking out their microphone cabinet! It's worth the money for the education.



I am from Delhi. And most of my education comes from you ppl.
The problem is that this country no longer has much of a live
instrument based music industry. Hence the problem with fiding mics
off the shelf, and importers will not stock as these are very slow
moving items.

A lot of studios will give you a huge break on the hourly rate for this sort
of thing if you want to come in during an otherwise open time.


This, my dear friend, is not the United States on America. If there
are any Studios in this country, worth their salt, there in Bombay.


--scott

Sidhu
  #10   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Take a train to Delhi and spend fifty bucks for a few hours at a studio
checking out their microphone cabinet! It's worth the money for the education.



I am from Delhi. And most of my education comes from you ppl.
The problem is that this country no longer has much of a live
instrument based music industry. Hence the problem with fiding mics
off the shelf, and importers will not stock as these are very slow
moving items.



How DID U figure im from around delhi.. ????? jeez i must be missing
something really stupid.




A lot of studios will give you a huge break on the hourly rate for this sort
of thing if you want to come in during an otherwise open time.


This, my dear friend, is not the United States on America. If there
are any Studios in this country, worth their salt, there in Bombay.


--scott

Sidhu



  #11   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for all the help. I really understand the importance of
investing in quallity mics and not building junk in my cabnit. But
this is quite a catc 22 situation. I have a band ready to record with
me and im having to put them off constantly cause i cant figure drum
mics. Anywaz...

So i also have the option of now picking up the Shure PGDMK6 drum mic
kit. It fits nicely in budget, but i doubt it would really be anything
to write home about.

http://164.109.27.207/microphones/models/pgdmk6.asp

One thing if you ppl. can help me out with is locating a company that
will take orders online and ship to India, fast. Ill see whats the
best i can do then.

So far the c1000 is out. The AKG 535 will take a month to arrive after
the order is placed. (but if totally worth it, i could jump) Id
suspect the same for the 421. The 602 is available, along with the
SM81 (cannot afford) Akg 451 (cannot afford) maybe the Studio
projects.

The thing here is weired pricing. The Shures and the AKG's are
available here for bout the same as anywhere else. while the Studio
Projects cost almost twice as much.

Hypothetically speaking, if i were to be able to spencd much on
overheads, which ones do i go for : (bear in mind id like using them
for guitars etc too)

Shure SM81 or the AKG 451.

I am tempted towards the Oktavas but as stated, i might not like a
vintage flavour, and then soundroom has not as of yet replied to my
email.

I so dammed stressed right now.


But just to give you guyz a brief. These i record often.

Flute (all kinds, bamboo) Violin (mostly indian carnatic, sounds a lot
fatter than western classical) Guitar (yet to achieve a good acoustic
sound, the only really alluding factor so far), Tabla, dholak, Dholl
and other indian percussions. Heavy metal and voice.

I mentioned that i tried the 421 on a kik once and dint like at all
(compared with a D12, twas an old mic). But it sound good on a Tabla.

Sidhu
  #12   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sidhu wrote:

A lot of studios will give you a huge break on the hourly rate for this sort
of thing if you want to come in during an otherwise open time.


This, my dear friend, is not the United States on America. If there
are any Studios in this country, worth their salt, there in Bombay.


It's true that most of the big guys are in Bombay. But in Delhi I can name
Simran Audio, Neelam, and Alfa Sound offhand. There are probably a few
more.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #13   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sidhu wrote:

Hypothetically speaking, if i were to be able to spencd much on
overheads, which ones do i go for : (bear in mind id like using them
for guitars etc too)

Shure SM81 or the AKG 451.


I would pick the original 451 over the SM-81, but I would pick the SM-81
over the new 451EB.

I am tempted towards the Oktavas but as stated, i might not like a
vintage flavour, and then soundroom has not as of yet replied to my
email.


Vintage flavour? The whole notion of a small diaphragm condenser is to
be as neutral as possible.

Flute (all kinds, bamboo) Violin (mostly indian carnatic, sounds a lot
fatter than western classical) Guitar (yet to achieve a good acoustic
sound, the only really alluding factor so far), Tabla, dholak, Dholl
and other indian percussions. Heavy metal and voice.


I would tend to pick high grade dynamics for most of these things if you have
to spot mike them, or small diaphragm condensers if you can pull back.

I mentioned that i tried the 421 on a kik once and dint like at all
(compared with a D12, twas an old mic). But it sound good on a Tabla.


Have you considered a used D12 then? I'm no fan of those but they aren't
that expensive used.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #14   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?

But i just figured, after paying customs and all for these mics, theyd
almost end up costing me as much a pair AKG C451's. Man, i think i
need to bite the bullet and starve for another 2 months.

Sux!

sidhu
  #15   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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"Sidhu" wrote in message
om...
Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?

But i just figured, after paying customs and all for these mics, theyd
almost end up costing me as much a pair AKG C451's. Man, i think i
need to bite the bullet and starve for another 2 months.


I'd take the Sound Room matched pair of Oktavas over the new 451s.
Particularly given the other instruments you'll be recording.

Peace,
Paul




  #16   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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I stand corrected. The oktava pair will cost me less than the 451.

Sidhu
  #17   Report Post  
Predrag Trpkov
 
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"Sidhu" wrote in message
om...
I stand corrected. The oktava pair will cost me less than the 451.

Sidhu


With the Oktavas, unlike the new C451, you also have the option of adding
quite affordable omni and hypercardioid capsules later. You may find it
rather useful.

Predrag


  #18   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Sidhu wrote:

Hypothetically speaking, if i were to be able to spencd much on
overheads, which ones do i go for : (bear in mind id like using them
for guitars etc too)

Shure SM81 or the AKG 451.


I would pick the original 451 over the SM-81, but I would pick the SM-81
over the new 451EB.


OK. But will not get old 451's.



I am tempted towards the Oktavas but as stated, i might not like a
vintage flavour, and then soundroom has not as of yet replied to my
email.


Vintage flavour? The whole notion of a small diaphragm condenser is to
be as neutral as possible.


Sorry. Bad Info then. I did not know that small diaphrams were nutral.
So what would you make of the 012 ?


Flute (all kinds, bamboo) Violin (mostly indian carnatic, sounds a lot
fatter than western classical) Guitar (yet to achieve a good acoustic
sound, the only really alluding factor so far), Tabla, dholak, Dholl
and other indian percussions. Heavy metal and voice.


I would tend to pick high grade dynamics for most of these things if you have
to spot mike them, or small diaphragm condensers if you can pull back.

I mentioned that i tried the 421 on a kik once and dint like at all
(compared with a D12, twas an old mic). But it sound good on a Tabla.


Have you considered a used D12 then? I'm no fan of those but they aren't
that expensive used.


The only place that i nows that has D12's is this studio called
Synthesis (figure ud know?) and hez not selling. OK mic. But will cut
it. Very thumpy.


--scott

  #20   Report Post  
Yuri T.
 
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Well, you can't go wrong with SM57 for snare and toms never mind the
other 1000 uses including amps, percussion etc. The Oktave 012s are
just fine for overheads and other purposes. If you can get the 3
capsules for them it's worth it to have at least the omni capsules as
well.

I've liked the e609 on guitar amps no experience with it on kick drum.

I've liked the Senn 421 on kick drum. Just remember that the rotary
swtich need to be on M for music not to roll off the bass. Plus many
mics for kick have built in bass and high peaks for the instrument,
the 421 is flatter than say a D112 but a little EQ goes a long way
with them.

Any engineer worth a darn should be able to get a good drum sound with
57s and the MC012s. If you can get Shure products then look for the
Beta 52 for the kick. But I bet with a little work the e609 would work
just fine.

the kit you shpow I've never used. The condesers look an awful lot
like what Shure sold as BG4.0. rugged and Ok sounding, just slightly
harsh. I've used them for overheads in a pinch and on snare. Not half
bad but the Oktavas are much nicer. I still bet those mics would do a
good job as well.

Good luck in your search.

yuri


Thanks for all the help. I really understand the importance of
investing in quallity mics and not building junk in my cabnit. But
this is quite a catc 22 situation. I have a band ready to record with
me and im having to put them off constantly cause i cant figure drum
mics. Anywaz...

So i also have the option of now picking up the Shure PGDMK6 drum mic
kit. It fits nicely in budget, but i doubt it would really be anything
to write home about.

http://164.109.27.207/microphones/models/pgdmk6.asp



  #21   Report Post  
Geoff Wood
 
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"Sidhu" wrote in message
om...
Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?


Stereo mics (XY- ORTF) for live anything. Guitar and other stringed
instruments, percusission, whatever.

But i just figured, after paying customs and all for these mics, theyd
almost end up costing me as much a pair AKG C451's. Man, i think i
need to bite the bullet and starve for another 2 months.


They may be better that the new 451EBs in some respects.

geoff


  #22   Report Post  
Bob Cain
 
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Sidhu wrote:

Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?


I say you'll love them. Does his set still contain hyper,
card and omni capsules for each?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
  #23   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Sidhu wrote:
Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?


They are good reasonable all-purpose mikes. And I think having a good
neutral set of small diaphragm condensers is probably the most important
thing in your cabinet, and that you should skimp on everything else in
order to get them. One good mike beats a cabinet of bad ones.

But i just figured, after paying customs and all for these mics, theyd
almost end up costing me as much a pair AKG C451's. Man, i think i
need to bite the bullet and starve for another 2 months.


I think they'll sound noticeably better than the C451EB mikes for a lot
of things.

Another thing you might look into is the EV N/D 468 egg mikes. They are
rather inexpensive little dynamics that are very handy; much more directional
than an SM-57 and they don't have a presence peak. They are sort of like
a poor man's 441.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #24   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Sidhu wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

It's true that most of the big guys are in Bombay. But in Delhi I can name
Simran Audio, Neelam, and Alfa Sound offhand. There are probably a few
more.


Ure scaring me. What you got do with here. my family lives very near
simran. And i alwaz thought the above mentioned studios dont do much
music, so never bothered. Need to Update meself and chek out.


That's true, but even so you'll see stuff like the RE-20 being used as
a voiceover microphone, for instance. It's worth just visiting, if only
to see who you are competing against.

Out of
curiosity, when was the last u visited em ?


I admit it's probably been ten years since I was out there. I was last out
checking out an LP pressing facility for some Europeans who wanted to buy
some of the equipment.

Is JAI magnetic tape still available? Did they ever start making high output
tapes? With the current tape situation here in the US, someone should start
importing that stuff.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #25   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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Bob Cain wrote in message ...
Sidhu wrote:

Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?


I say you'll love them. Does his set still contain hyper,
card and omni capsules for each?


Yes, but u have the choice of ordering with just one kinda capsule.
and thats what ill be going in for right now. I think the Cardiod
(unless there are reasons for the other types).




Bob



  #26   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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"Predrag Trpkov" wrote in message ...
"Sidhu" wrote in message
om...
I stand corrected. The oktava pair will cost me less than the 451.

Sidhu


With the Oktavas, unlike the new C451, you also have the option of adding
quite affordable omni and hypercardioid capsules later. You may find it
rather useful.

Predrag


thats what i felt. I think ill zero in on the 012 from Sound room. And
get the capsules later if needed.

Sidhu
  #27   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Sidhu wrote:
Just got a reply from the sound room. they have the Oktava MC012
stereo pair in stock and will ship to India. What say. I have
mentioned uses (besides overheads) in a previous post. what say?


They are good reasonable all-purpose mikes. And I think having a good
neutral set of small diaphragm condensers is probably the most important
thing in your cabinet, and that you should skimp on everything else in
order to get them. One good mike beats a cabinet of bad ones.



Im working towards that. Else id have a collection of Behringer
mics right now. (But i use the behringer UB consoles. and think there
quite good.)



But i just figured, after paying customs and all for these mics, theyd
almost end up costing me as much a pair AKG C451's. Man, i think i
need to bite the bullet and starve for another 2 months.


I think they'll sound noticeably better than the C451EB mikes for a lot
of things.


Thats good newz.



Another thing you might look into is the EV N/D 468 egg mikes. They are
rather inexpensive little dynamics that are very handy; much more directional
than an SM-57 and they don't have a presence peak. They are sort of like
a poor man's 441.



So Im a poor man. Ill look out for these mics.

In fact, your last post stating that ud use high grade condensers on
most of the instruments that i mentioned (for spot recording) made a
lot of sence. I recently got a bargain on a Beta 58A . And have been
loving it! I need to know of more such mics, the 421 being one. Found
out the price of the RE20. Tis bout 1300 USD here. HAHAHAHA!!!!!! Im
sure the guy was joking ( or unaware).

Thanks again for the ton help.

Sidhu
  #29   Report Post  
Predrag Trpkov
 
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"Sidhu" wrote in message
om...


Found out the price of the RE20. Tis bout 1300 USD here. HAHAHAHA!!!!!! Im
sure the guy was joking ( or unaware).


No, he wasn't joking, I'm afraid.

Predrag


  #31   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Predrag Trpkov wrote:
"Sidhu" wrote:

Found out the price of the RE20. Tis bout 1300 USD here. HAHAHAHA!!!!!! Im
sure the guy was joking ( or unaware).


No, he wasn't joking, I'm afraid.


Sounds to me like it's time for grey marketing. Klay Alexander should at
least ship to Hungary and India.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #32   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Sidhu wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

It's true that most of the big guys are in Bombay. But in Delhi I can name
Simran Audio, Neelam, and Alfa Sound offhand. There are probably a few
more.


Ure scaring me. What you got do with here. my family lives very near
simran. And i alwaz thought the above mentioned studios dont do much
music, so never bothered. Need to Update meself and chek out.


That's true, but even so you'll see stuff like the RE-20 being used as
a voiceover microphone, for instance. It's worth just visiting, if only
to see who you are competing against.


Thats intreasting. Will follow up. But personally speaking, most of
the old guys have almost altogether moved on to Voice overs
exclusively. They bigger ones rent out studios to Nat Geo and
discovery and the likes.

And the others, well u really dont wanna know what comes out of these
facilities. It's really hard to explain. But overall, very grim.
Rocordists who have no clue, music composers/arrangers who think the
Yamaha PSR520 Kyboard is THE industry standard. Producers that only
want the same loop used in that album. (the women in the video must be
different though). A'n'R reps who want a beautifully crafeted carnatic
flute recital to have a "lounge" feel. It's so sad, it drives me up
the wall sometimes.

End of the day, my experience comes from all u ppl. I have yet to meet
a enginner in this place that I have learnt something off. And thats
not something thats made me happy, only depressed. At times i just
wanna get outta here. And bombay is no much better either. But yes,
some ppl do have a Neve.



Out of
curiosity, when was the last u visited em ?


I admit it's probably been ten years since I was out there. I was last out
checking out an LP pressing facility for some Europeans who wanted to buy
some of the equipment.


Things have changed. For the worse.


Is JAI magnetic tape still available? Did they ever start making high output
tapes? With the current tape situation here in the US, someone should start
importing that stuff.


U kidding me !!! Just today evening i transfered 7, 30min radio
programmed to BRAND NEW JAI 1/4 INCH TAPE (7 of them)!!!! I think it's
a lot better than INDU, the only other available. Want me to send you
some ???? But i havnt seen any high output tape. Ill call tomorow and
ask whats it that they are manufacturig.

Heres the irony. The only ppl still asking for quater inch masters are
the guyz at All India Radio, And each day I curse em for not porting
to CD or DAT. Reason ? Cause while the tape is there and at
reasonalble qualit, cant say the same for our 2 track machines. Chek
this out. The 2 trak at the studio wher i work konked off and spares
we cud not find, so ? we took out the 2 track circuit board, along
with the heads, and put em into our 4 trak machine. So now we have
channels 1 and 3 of the 4 track recording 2 track master to a quater
inch.
Sidhu


--scott

  #33   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Sidhu wrote:
Is JAI magnetic tape still available? Did they ever start making high output
tapes? With the current tape situation here in the US, someone should start
importing that stuff.


U kidding me !!! Just today evening i transfered 7, 30min radio
programmed to BRAND NEW JAI 1/4 INCH TAPE (7 of them)!!!! I think it's
a lot better than INDU, the only other available. Want me to send you
some ???? But i havnt seen any high output tape. Ill call tomorow and
ask whats it that they are manufacturig.


When I last saw them, JAI was making red-oxide tapes for broadcast
applications. Low output... I think +3 over 185 nW/m. They were talking
about a HOLN (high output low noise) tape for use at +3 over 250 nW/m,
sort of like a typical high-grade tape from the early seventies before
backcoating made it big.

Heres the irony. The only ppl still asking for quater inch masters are
the guyz at All India Radio, And each day I curse em for not porting
to CD or DAT. Reason ? Cause while the tape is there and at
reasonalble qualit, cant say the same for our 2 track machines.


In the US, most folks are delivering CD or high resolution digital files to
the mastering house, but there are still some folks delivering analogue
tapes. What's sort of weird is that half-inch 2-track has become very
popular in the last decade and has actually started to ease quarter-inch
out.

In any case, now that BASF/Emtec is gone, there is only one source for
analogue tape in the US, Quantegy.

Chek
this out. The 2 trak at the studio wher i work konked off and spares
we cud not find, so ? we took out the 2 track circuit board, along
with the heads, and put em into our 4 trak machine. So now we have
channels 1 and 3 of the 4 track recording 2 track master to a quater
inch.


That doesn't sound too bad. I have a single ATR-100 here, with a box
of different head stacks. Sometimes it's 1/2" 4-track, sometimes it's
1/4" half-track, and every now and then it's 1/4" quarter-track, 1/4"
four-track or 1/2" three-track. Only takes up a small amount of space
in the room and in fifteen minutes you can swap from any format to any
other.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #35   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Sidhu wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

Sounds to me like it's time for grey marketing. Klay Alexander should at
least ship to Hungary and India.


Who is Alexander ????


http://www.klay.com should do it. He sells a lot of gear to the broadcast
industry so he is pretty used to working with companies abroad, and he has
a good selection of products available.

There are lots of other companies in the US that will ship to the rest of
the world, too, he's just the guy I thought of first, and he's a good guy
that I trust.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #36   Report Post  
Sidhu
 
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In any case, now that BASF/Emtec is gone, there is only one source for
analogue tape in the US, Quantegy.


Ppl. miss BASF out here too. But Maxells around. I think the JAI's are
still red oxide, tommorows monday. Ill find out the details for you.
But honestly, i fail to see much point in tape. It does changne the
sound though.

Sidhu
  #37   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Sidhu wrote:
In any case, now that BASF/Emtec is gone, there is only one source for
analogue tape in the US, Quantegy.


Ppl. miss BASF out here too. But Maxells around. I think the JAI's are
still red oxide, tommorows monday. Ill find out the details for you.
But honestly, i fail to see much point in tape. It does changne the
sound though.


Not in the US. Last batch of Maxell UD in 1/4" was sold in the US this
past winter. I don't know if it's being made in Japan and just not being
sold in the US or they have stopped making it entirely. And they never did
make it any wider than 1/4".
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #38   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sidhu wrote:
Scott Dorsey) wrote...


Sounds to me like it's time for grey marketing. Klay Alexander should at
least ship to Hungary and India.


Who is Alexander ????


http://www.klay.com should do it. He sells a lot of gear to the broadcast
industry so he is pretty used to working with companies abroad, and he has
a good selection of products available.


But his website isn't the greatest so going there and then emailing him
from the mail link might be advisable. But yes, Klay is a keen pro audio
supplier. Highly recommended

--
ha
  #39   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
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Sidhu wrote:

One thing if you ppl. can help me out with is locating a company that
will take orders online and ship to India, fast.



Try Musicians Gear in Dubai

http://www.musicians-gear.co.ae/

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