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ZeeTso[_3_] ZeeTso[_3_] is offline
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Default 12AU7 noob question(s)

hi there!

first to state, i got no real expirience with vacuum tubes, but i understand
basic electric/electronic principles, and have some soldering skills

that said, i have a question regarding voltage and current for 12AU7 (ECC82)
heater in cheap and simple headphone amp. tube is in input stage, driving an
op amp.
now, design says that amp needs 12V DC power supply. there is an LM317
current regulator in series with heaters, and it has 5ohm resistor giving
max 250mA load (calculated value).
with 12V DC supply voltage there is only ~10,5V between pins 4 and 5
(heaters in series).

what is confusing me is the fact that every 12AU7 datasheet says it needs
12,6V for heaters (in series).

is this value absolutely necessary, or it might vary?
how is that affecting tube performance and sound?

i connected the amp to regulated power supply and noticed that it sounds
better with higher than 12V supply voltage.

to get 12,6V for heaters i need ~15V DC power supply, so i guess that would
be best option.

what says you?

p.s. original schematic is in pdf file he

http://www.fredsamplifiers.com.au/do..._Valve_KIT.pdf

p.p.s. sorry for gramatics, english is not my native language...


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GRe GRe is offline
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Default 12AU7 noob question(s)

"ZeeTso" wrote in message
...
hi there!

first to state, i got no real expirience with vacuum tubes, but i
understand basic electric/electronic principles, and have some soldering
skills

that said, i have a question regarding voltage and current for 12AU7
(ECC82) heater in cheap and simple headphone amp. tube is in input stage,
driving an op amp.
now, design says that amp needs 12V DC power supply. there is an LM317
current regulator in series with heaters, and it has 5ohm resistor giving
max 250mA load (calculated value).
with 12V DC supply voltage there is only ~10,5V between pins 4 and 5
(heaters in series).

what is confusing me is the fact that every 12AU7 datasheet says it needs
12,6V for heaters (in series).

is this value absolutely necessary, or it might vary?
how is that affecting tube performance and sound?

i connected the amp to regulated power supply and noticed that it sounds
better with higher than 12V supply voltage.

to get 12,6V for heaters i need ~15V DC power supply, so i guess that
would be best option.

what says you?

p.s. original schematic is in pdf file he

http://www.fredsamplifiers.com.au/do..._Valve_KIT.pdf

p.p.s. sorry for gramatics, english is not my native language...


In this configuration, and for 300mA heater current, the LM317 requires 3V
minimum input-to-output difference to work correctly .
Add that to the 12.6V heater voltage and get a minimum of 15.6V input
voltage.

Gio Re




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Phil Allison[_3_] Phil Allison[_3_] is offline
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Default 12AU7 noob question(s)


"ZeeTso"


what is confusing me is the fact that every 12AU7 datasheet says it needs
12,6V for heaters (in series).

is this value absolutely necessary, or it might vary?


** Anything from 11 to 14V is OK.



p.s. original schematic is in pdf file he

http://www.fredsamplifiers.com.au/do..._Valve_KIT.pdf


** The AC adaptor is gonna be important.

If it has any hum you will hear it.



.... Phil


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patrick-turner patrick-turner is offline
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Default 12AU7 noob question(s)

On Friday, 19 July 2013 16:26:55 UTC+10, ZeeTso wrote:
hi there! first to state, i got no real expirience with vacuum tubes, but i understand basic electric/electronic principles, and have some soldering skills that said, i have a question regarding voltage and current for 12AU7 (ECC82) heater in cheap and simple headphone amp. tube is in input stage, driving an op amp. now, design says that amp needs 12V DC power supply. there is an LM317 current regulator in series with heaters, and it has 5ohm resistor giving max 250mA load (calculated value). with 12V DC supply voltage there is only ~10,5V between pins 4 and 5 (heaters in series). what is confusing me is the fact that every 12AU7 datasheet says it needs 12,6V for heaters (in series). is this value absolutely necessary, or it might vary?


The simplest way to get +12.6Vdc at 0.15Adc for 12AU7 heaters is to use a 7812 12V regulator with a single diode 1N4007 in the leg to 0V, and then you get very close to 12.6Vdc without anything to adjust. You must have +15.6V at least for input voltage.

how is that affecting tube performance and sound?

The tube heater gets the cathode to the correct temperature for optimal electron emission and tube life. In fact, it is not critical and the tube will work OK with heater volts between 11V and 14V as Phil says. ( ie, 12.6V +/- 10 )

i connected the amp to regulated power supply and noticed that it sounds better with higher than 12V supply voltage. to get 12,6V for heaters i need ~15V DC power supply, so i guess that would be best option. what says you? p..s. original schematic is in pdf file he http://www.fredsamplifiers.com.au/do..._Valve_KIT.pdf p.p.s. sorry for gramatics, english is not my native language...

Operating the 12AU7 with 12V B+ anode supply is not good, and your cheap headphone amp kit has garbage quality. The poorly presented schematic shows no good details for the power supply and has +12Vdc B+ rail, and a 47k anode R and a direct coupled chip of some sort which actually powers the phones. This sort of kit what I like to put on the concrete floor and smash with a sledge hammer because its such low quality, like a cockroach. :-) !!

The 12AU7 probably makes the sound a whole lot worse because of how it is being used.

I think a cheap headphone amp could be made much better with a chip placed after a volume control with supply rails of +/- 12V and no tube. 12AU7 works best with B+ of about +300V, and anode voltage of about +130V, with Ia = 5mA, and you get voltage gain of about 13 with THD 1% at 5Vrms output from anode. But you probably need much less signal for your phones, and trying to use a 12AU7 like it is a small signal transistor seems quite stupid IMHO.

I have made headphone amps using nothing but tubes and then ppl have told me they sound better than anything else. But it is far more difficult to do this, and it will cost more, because you need 1/2 12AU7, 2 x 6BQ5, 2 x OPTs, and a decent PSU and a lot of applied knowledge and experience to keep the noise level below 0.05mV at the heaphone output terminals.
Patrick Turner.
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Alex Pogossov Alex Pogossov is offline
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Default 12AU7 noob question(s)


"ZeeTso" wrote in message
...
hi there!

first to state, i got no real expirience with vacuum tubes, but i
understand basic electric/electronic principles, and have some soldering
skills

that said, i have a question regarding voltage and current for 12AU7
(ECC82) heater in cheap and simple headphone amp. tube is in input stage,
driving an op amp.
now, design says that amp needs 12V DC power supply. there is an LM317
current regulator in series with heaters, and it has 5ohm resistor giving
max 250mA load (calculated value).
with 12V DC supply voltage there is only ~10,5V between pins 4 and 5
(heaters in series).

what is confusing me is the fact that every 12AU7 datasheet says it needs
12,6V for heaters (in series).

is this value absolutely necessary, or it might vary?
how is that affecting tube performance and sound?

i connected the amp to regulated power supply and noticed that it sounds
better with higher than 12V supply voltage.

to get 12,6V for heaters i need ~15V DC power supply, so i guess that
would be best option.

what says you?

p.s. original schematic is in pdf file he

http://www.fredsamplifiers.com.au/do..._Valve_KIT.pdf

p.p.s. sorry for gramatics, english is not my native language...


Tubes are less noisy at lower heater voltage. So if a tube is to be used in
micropower mode, it might be good to reduce heater voltage.
But why not use a simple dropping resistor?

But in general the circuit looks ridiculous.
1) The tube works with grid current bias which adds to distortion when the
source impedance is high.
2) All power supply noise get fed into the audio path.
3) Distortion is determined by the op-amp which is not great at low-ohm load
(head phones). Looking at the op-amp circuit, it will be losing loop gain
quickly when the load resistance goes below 2K or so. Op-amp works in class
B for reasonably loud sound.

Generally it is not clear what is the purpose of the tube at all. Perhaps to
INTRODUCE some distortion and colour the sound in some pleasant fuzzy way?


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