[Alex Pogossov]

We have seen that:
1. Sensitivity determines the minimum carrier level which allows to handle
required modulation index. A pn diode has the best *potential* sensitivity.
(Only liquid nitrogen can improve it further. Sigh...) A tube is four times
worse.
2. For an unbiased detector modulation handling always reduces with audio
frequency, for the biased one -- it stays close to 100% till a certain
frequency, then starts to fall.
3. An unbiased detector HF high-level performance does not depend on the
signal level, whilst for the biased detector works worse and worse (slew
rate wise) with the carrier increasing. This it requires an efficient
(delayed and amplified AGC).

=== How to properly bias the diode in an unbiased detector ====

Everyone knows that differential resistance of a pn diode is approximately
Rd = 25 Ohms / I,
where I - current trough the diode in mA.

What is the differential resistance of a diode with no bias, at low voltage
(10mV)? Is it infinitely high? The answer is "No". A diode acts as a
resistor at low voltages. In fact, the above formula is not correct. More
correct version of it should be:

Rd = 25 Ohm / (Io + I), where
Io - so called saturation current or reverse current of the diode in mA;
I - current flowing through the diode in mA.

This equation is derived from I = Io * (exp (e*V / kT) - 1). Note that in
part 1 I deliberately omitted " -1" for simplicity.

For a silicon diode Io, the reverse current, is of the order of picoamps,
therefore, with no bias (I = 0) its resistance Rd is gigaohms, virtually
infinite.

For a germanium diode reverse current Io is in the range of 0.5...5uA. for
example, if Io = 1uA, then Rd = 25KOhm.

Now consider you use a germanium diode with Io=1uA in a conventional
booooring detector fed from a Hi-Z IFT with no cathode follower. For a low
signal the rectifier is virtually shunted by Rd which is as low as 25K in
this case. Needless to say that the low Rd=25K will be greatly shunting the
LC tank which normally has 100...300K of resonance impedance. The detector
will lose its sensitivity.

Reducing Io improves performance. You can try the following experiment. In a
booring radio replace a vacuum diode with a germanium point contact one.
Most likely sensitivity of the radio will drop. Now cool the diode by
spraying it with CO2 or some quickly evaporating liquid. The radio will come
to life. Warm the diode by a soldering iron -- the radio will become
completely dead.

Note that Io changes 2 times per 10 degrees, Rd changes reciprocally in the
same proportion.

Now it is easy to explaim why Partick ended up with 3 germanium diodes in
series. He connected them in series to increse Rd. Probably each of his
diodes had about 0.5uA of reverse current (Rd = 50K). Three diodes would
have 150K which is sort of OK. Connecting more diodes in series though
increases Rd, reduces the sensitivity as the RF voltage is divided between
the diodes. If one diode needs 25mV of RF to rectify, three diodes need
75mV, etc. So there somwhere lies the optimum number of the diodes in the
chain. Too few -- you shunt the LC tank and lose gain, too many -- you raise
the sensitivity threshold.

If Patrick happen to experiment on a cold winter day, perhaps we would have
heard about "two diodes". If Partick had chosen to fix his radio during a
scourching 45C heatwave, then today we would have heard his stories about
four Germanium diodes...

Mystery solved...

But what is the best Rd of a diode to use as a detector? To answer the
question consider the following.
Everyone knows that an equivalent load the detector presents to the IFT at
high signal is R/2. It is logical to presume that at low signal (25mV) the
load on IFT shall also be R/2 -- so that IFT does not "see" a differenc in
load over the whole range and thus works with the least distortion and
losses.

In a common boooooring detector R is about 500K. Thus Rd shall be 250K,
which translates into 100nA of the diode reverse current. One germanium
diode has higher reverse current and therefore unsuitable. What about a
silicon diode with a negligible Io? The answer is obvious -- bias it so that
at no signal the current through the diode is 100nA. Or on the load it will
translate into 50mV of DC voltage drop.

That is the rule: bias a silicon diode to have 50mV across the load. (Use a
hi-Z multimeter for this purpose). The bias voltage must be temperature
compensated, so it must be taken from an auxiliary forward biased diode.

If you want to use a germanium diode, you need to reverse (!!!) bias it, so
that Io + I = 100nA. For example, if your Ge diode has 1uA of reverse
current, then you need reverse bias it so that --900nA is flowing, or --45mV
is on the load. Needless to say, it is impractical to do so given that Io
depends on temperature. So, do not use Ge diodes in Hi-Z detectors.

(With Io=1uA a Ge diode will be perfect in a detector with R=50K, not 500K.)

What to do if you are not looking forward to complications with forward
biasing Si diodes? Then... use Schottky diodes!!!! They have Io from 10nA to
500nA depending on the type. Buy a dozen of 1N5711 Schootky diodes and
select the ones with suitable Io. To measure Io use a multimeter in a mV
range in series with the diode under test and any battery, e.g., 9V battery.
Multimeters have either 1M or 10M input resistance. (To find this out
measure say a 9V battery with 1M in series with the DVM. It will either show
4.5V or 8.5V). Aim at lower than 100nA taking into account heating of the
chassis in operation.

What about properly biasing a tube detector. The above concept still
applies, but because of higher temperature, for a tube diode Rd is 4 times
greater. Rd = 100R / I.

So for a boooring detector with R=500K emission current at no signal should
be around 400nA, or 200mV across the load.
If your detector diode is decent, like 6AL5, you will probably have more.
For example, in my Lafayette HE-80 receiver I have about 390mV. The detector
is overbiased and is excessively loading the IFT. Therefore I need to
additionally reverse bias the circuit by connectin the load resistor not to
GND, but to some negative voltage. Even better to reduce the heater voltage
to have, without signal, about 200mVdc on the load .

If your vacuum diode is feeble as 6AV6 or 6Q7, etc. your emission current
might be not enough to deliver 200mV at 500K load. In this case you might
like to add slight positive bias to the circuit.

[Patrick Turner]

On Jul 18, 8:18*pm, "Alex Pogossov" wrote:
We have seen that:
1. Sensitivity determines the minimum carrier level which allows to handle
required modulation index. A pn diode has the best *potential* sensitivity.
(Only liquid nitrogen can improve it further. Sigh...) A tube is four times
worse.
2. For an unbiased detector modulation handling always reduces with audio
frequency, for the biased one -- it stays close to 100% till a certain
frequency, then starts to fall.
3. An unbiased detector HF high-level performance does not depend on the
signal level, whilst for the biased detector works worse and worse (slew
rate wise) with the carrier increasing. This it requires an efficient
(delayed and amplified AGC).

=== How to properly bias the diode in an unbiased detector ====

Everyone knows that differential resistance of a pn diode is approximately
Rd = 25 Ohms / I,
where I - current trough the diode in mA.

What is the differential resistance of a diode with no bias, at low voltage
(10mV)? Is it infinitely high? The answer is "No". A diode acts as a
resistor at low voltages. In fact, the above formula is not correct. More
correct version of it should be:

Rd = 25 Ohm / (Io + I), where
Io - so called saturation current or reverse current of the diode in mA;
I - current flowing through the diode in mA.

This equation is derived from I = Io * (exp (e*V / kT) - 1). Note that in
part 1 I deliberately omitted " -1" for simplicity.

For a silicon diode Io, the reverse current, is of the order of picoamps,
therefore, with no bias (I = 0) its resistance Rd is gigaohms, virtually
infinite.

For a germanium diode reverse current Io is in the range of 0.5...5uA. for
example, if Io = 1uA, then Rd = 25KOhm.

Now consider you use a germanium diode with Io=1uA in a conventional
booooring detector fed from a Hi-Z IFT with no cathode follower. For a low
signal the rectifier is virtually shunted by Rd which is as low as 25K in
this case. Needless to say that the low Rd=25K will be greatly shunting the
LC tank which normally has 100...300K of resonance impedance. The detector
will lose its sensitivity.

Reducing Io improves performance. You can try the following experiment. In a
booring radio replace a vacuum diode with a germanium point contact one.
Most likely sensitivity of the radio will drop. Now cool the diode by
spraying it with CO2 or some quickly evaporating liquid. The radio will come
to life. Warm the diode by a soldering iron -- the radio will become
completely dead.

OK, at last you are saying something to make me think. Temperature
sensitivity of Ge diodes. I didn't give that any thought.


Note that Io changes 2 times per 10 degrees, Rd changes reciprocally in the
same proportion.

Now it is easy to explaim why Partick ended up with 3 germanium diodes in
series. He connected them in series to increse Rd. Probably each of his
diodes had about 0.5uA of reverse current (Rd = 50K). Three diodes would
have 150K which is sort of OK. Connecting more diodes in series though
increases Rd, reduces the sensitivity as the RF voltage is divided between
the diodes. If one diode needs 25mV of RF to rectify, three diodes need
75mV, etc. So there somwhere lies the optimum number of the diodes in the
chain. Too few -- you shunt the LC tank and lose gain, too many -- you raise
the sensitivity threshold.

If Patrick happen to experiment on a cold winter day, perhaps we would have
heard about "two diodes". If Partick had chosen to fix his radio during a
scourching 45C heatwave, then today we would have heard his stories about
four Germanium diodes...

I did the circuit on a cool but not icy day, and found diodes seemed
to give much less THD than 1 diode.
But then in practice, the set will warm up on a hot day under the
chassis, and so that Ge diode idea might have to be chopped right out
and better proven solution be installed.

Mystery solved...

But what is the best Rd of a diode to use as a detector? To answer the
question consider the following.
Everyone knows that an equivalent load the detector presents to the IFT at
high signal is R/2. It is logical to presume that at low signal (25mV) the
load on IFT shall also be R/2 -- so that IFT does not "see" a differenc in
load over the whole range and thus works with the least distortion and
losses.

In a common boooooring detector R is about 500K. Thus Rd shall be 250K,
which translates into 100nA of the diode reverse current. One germanium
diode has higher reverse current and therefore unsuitable. What about a
silicon diode with a negligible Io? The answer is obvious -- bias it so that
at no signal the current through the diode is 100nA. Or on the load it will
translate into 50mV of DC voltage drop.

That is the rule: bias a silicon diode to have 50mV across the load. (Use a
hi-Z multimeter for this purpose). The bias voltage must be temperature
compensated, so it must be taken from an auxiliary forward biased diode.

If you want to use a germanium diode, you need to reverse (!!!) bias it, so
that Io + I = 100nA. For example, if your Ge diode has 1uA of reverse
current, then you need reverse bias it so that --900nA is flowing, or --45mV
is on the load. Needless to say, it is impractical to do so given that Io
depends on temperature. So, do not use Ge diodes in Hi-Z detectors.

(With Io=1uA a Ge diode will be perfect in a detector with R=50K, not 500K.)

What to do if you are not looking forward to complications with forward
biasing Si diodes? Then... use Schottky diodes!!!! They have Io from 10nA to
500nA depending on the type. Buy a dozen of 1N5711 Schootky diodes and
select the ones with suitable Io. To measure Io use a multimeter in a mV
range in series with the diode under test and any battery, e.g., 9V battery.
Multimeters have either 1M or 10M input resistance. (To find this out
measure say a 9V battery with 1M in series with the DVM. It will either show
4.5V or 8.5V). Aim at lower than 100nA taking into account heating of the
chassis in operation.

Not many schottky diodes are being sold at electronics stores here.

The conversion of the highZ IFT signal in an AM radio to low Z by use
of a tube CF seems to overcome the problems of using SS diodes at the
high Z circuit. The more you say about SS diodes, the less I like
them, unless the signal source d low Z, and the problems you are
saying would then all dissappear, no? My CRO tells me the CF detector
I like to use is the best type I have ever observed or listened to.


What about properly biasing a tube detector. The above concept still
applies, but because of higher temperature, for a tube diode Rd is 4 times
greater. Rd = 100R / I.

So for a boooring detector with R=500K emission current at no signal should
be around 400nA, or 200mV across the load.
If your detector diode is decent, like 6AL5, you will probably have more.
For example, in my Lafayette HE-80 receiver I have about 390mV. The detector
is overbiased and is excessively loading the IFT. Therefore I need to
additionally reverse bias the circuit by connectin the load resistor not to
GND, but to some negative voltage. Even better to reduce the heater voltage
to have, without signal, about 200mVdc on the load .

If your vacuum diode is feeble as 6AV6 or 6Q7, etc. your emission current
might be not enough to deliver 200mV at 500K load. In this case you might
like to add slight positive bias to the circuit.

A schematic of just what the heck you are saying might improve
everyone's comprehension.

I think I might have to wait years though, so meanwhile I'll stay with
what I know works real well.

Patrick Turner.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 18, 7:02*am, Patrick Turner wrote:
On Jul 18, 8:18*pm, "Alex Pogossov" wrote:





We have seen that:
1. Sensitivity determines the minimum carrier level which allows to handle
required modulation index. A pn diode has the best *potential* sensitivity.
(Only liquid nitrogen can improve it further. Sigh...) A tube is four times
worse.
2. For an unbiased detector modulation handling always reduces with audio
frequency, for the biased one -- it stays close to 100% till a certain
frequency, then starts to fall.
3. An unbiased detector HF high-level performance does not depend on the
signal level, whilst for the biased detector works worse and worse (slew
rate wise) with the carrier increasing. This it requires an efficient
(delayed and amplified AGC).

=== How to properly bias the diode in an unbiased detector ====

Everyone knows that differential resistance of a pn diode is approximately
Rd = 25 Ohms / I,
where I - current trough the diode in mA.

What is the differential resistance of a diode with no bias, at low voltage
(10mV)? Is it infinitely high? The answer is "No". A diode acts as a
resistor at low voltages. In fact, the above formula is not correct. More
correct version of it should be:

Rd = 25 Ohm / (Io + I), where
Io - so called saturation current or reverse current of the diode in mA;
I - current flowing through the diode in mA.

This equation is derived from I = Io * (exp (e*V / kT) - 1). Note that in
part 1 I deliberately omitted " -1" for simplicity.

For a silicon diode Io, the reverse current, is of the order of picoamps,
therefore, with no bias (I = 0) its resistance Rd is gigaohms, virtually
infinite.

For a germanium diode reverse current Io is in the range of 0.5...5uA. for
example, if Io = 1uA, then Rd = 25KOhm.

Now consider you use a germanium diode with Io=1uA in a conventional
booooring detector fed from a Hi-Z IFT with no cathode follower. For a low
signal the rectifier is virtually shunted by Rd which is as low as 25K in
this case. Needless to say that the low Rd=25K will be greatly shunting the
LC tank which normally has 100...300K of resonance impedance. The detector
will lose its sensitivity.

Reducing Io improves performance. You can try the following experiment. In a
booring radio replace a vacuum diode with a germanium point contact one..
Most likely sensitivity of the radio will drop. Now cool the diode by
spraying it with CO2 or some quickly evaporating liquid. The radio will come
to life. Warm the diode by a soldering iron -- the radio will become
completely dead.

OK, at last you are saying something to make me think. Temperature
sensitivity of Ge diodes. I didn't give that any thought.







Note that Io changes 2 times per 10 degrees, Rd changes reciprocally in the
same proportion.

Now it is easy to explaim why Partick ended up with 3 germanium diodes in
series. He connected them in series to increse Rd. Probably each of his
diodes had about 0.5uA of reverse current (Rd = 50K). Three diodes would
have 150K which is sort of OK. Connecting more diodes in series though
increases Rd, reduces the sensitivity as the RF voltage is divided between
the diodes. If one diode needs 25mV of RF to rectify, three diodes need
75mV, etc. So there somwhere lies the optimum number of the diodes in the
chain. Too few -- you shunt the LC tank and lose gain, too many -- you raise
the sensitivity threshold.

If Patrick happen to experiment on a cold winter day, perhaps we would have
heard about "two diodes". If Partick had chosen to fix his radio during a
scourching 45C heatwave, then today we would have heard his stories about
four Germanium diodes...

I did the circuit on a cool but not icy day, and found diodes seemed
to give much less THD than 1 diode.
But then in practice, the set will warm up on a hot day under the
chassis, and so that Ge diode idea might have to be chopped right out
and better proven solution be installed.







Mystery solved...

But what is the best Rd of a diode to use as a detector? To answer the
question consider the following.
Everyone knows that an equivalent load the detector presents to the IFT at
high signal is R/2. It is logical to presume that at low signal (25mV) the
load on IFT shall also be R/2 -- so that IFT does not "see" a differenc in
load over the whole range and thus works with the least distortion and
losses.

In a common boooooring detector R is about 500K. Thus Rd shall be 250K,
which translates into 100nA of the diode reverse current. One germanium
diode has higher reverse current and therefore unsuitable. What about a
silicon diode with a negligible Io? The answer is obvious -- bias it so that
at no signal the current through the diode is 100nA. Or on the load it will
translate into 50mV of DC voltage drop.

That is the rule: bias a silicon diode to have 50mV across the load. (Use a
hi-Z multimeter for this purpose). The bias voltage must be temperature
compensated, so it must be taken from an auxiliary forward biased diode..

If you want to use a germanium diode, you need to reverse (!!!) bias it, so
that Io + I = 100nA. For example, if your Ge diode has 1uA of reverse
current, then you need reverse bias it so that --900nA is flowing, or --45mV
is on the load. Needless to say, it is impractical to do so given that Io
depends on temperature. So, do not use Ge diodes in Hi-Z detectors.

(With Io=1uA a Ge diode will be perfect in a detector with R=50K, not 500K.)

What to do if you are not looking forward to complications with forward
biasing Si diodes? Then... use Schottky diodes!!!! They have Io from 10nA to
500nA depending on the type. Buy a dozen of 1N5711 Schootky diodes and
select the ones with suitable Io. To measure Io use a multimeter in a mV
range in series with the diode under test and any battery, e.g., 9V battery.
Multimeters have either 1M or 10M input resistance. (To find this out
measure say a 9V battery with 1M in series with the DVM. It will either show
4.5V or 8.5V). Aim at lower than 100nA taking into account heating of the
chassis in operation.

Not many schottky diodes are being sold at electronics stores here.

The conversion of the highZ IFT signal in an AM radio to low Z by use
of a tube CF seems to overcome the problems of using SS diodes at the
high Z circuit. *The more you say about SS diodes, the less I like
them, unless the signal source d low Z, and the problems you are
saying would then all dissappear, no? My CRO tells me the CF detector
I like to use is the best type I have ever observed or listened to.





What about properly biasing a tube detector. The above concept still
applies, but because of higher temperature, for a tube diode Rd is 4 times
greater. Rd = 100R / I.

So for a boooring detector with R=500K emission current at no signal should
be around 400nA, or 200mV across the load.
If your detector diode is decent, like 6AL5, you will probably have more.
For example, in my Lafayette HE-80 receiver I have about 390mV. The detector
is overbiased and is excessively loading the IFT. Therefore I need to
additionally reverse bias the circuit by connectin the load resistor not to
GND, but to some negative voltage. Even better to reduce the heater voltage
to have, without signal, about 200mVdc on the load .

If your vacuum diode is feeble as 6AV6 or 6Q7, etc. your emission current
might be not enough to deliver 200mV at 500K load. In this case you might
like to add slight positive bias to the circuit.

A schematic of just what the heck you are saying might improve
everyone's comprehension.

I think I might have to wait years though, so meanwhile I'll stay with
what I know works real well.

Patrick Turner.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cat's whisker !