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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some
avantone mixcubes as secondaries.

turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a
passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little
about pairing amps with speakers.

there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to
sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a
nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening.

i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on
doing a lot of mixing on them.

any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things?
i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know
little about power amps.

i was thinking something around $200 that way the passives + amp would
cost the same as the actives i had budgeted for.

and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes?
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

On 5/25/2011 1:40 AM, cporro wrote:

there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to
sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a
nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening.


i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on
doing a lot of mixing on them.


That really isn't advisable, but if that's what you're going
to do anyway, you might as well get a decent amplifier so
you won't inject other forms of distortion that aren't going
to be "fixable" in your mixing.

any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things?
i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know
little about power amps.


Bryston - good. Crown D75 - not so good. There's an Adcom
555 I think that Scott recommends. Maybe you can find a
Hafler DH-220 or DH-225. A bit of an outlier but would
probably work just fine is the Alesis RA-500. It's a
discontinued model but I picked up a used one for $90 at a
local Guitar Center on the recommendation of a trusted
engineer friend when I needed something to tide me over
while I troubleshot my Hafler. I compared them after I fixed
the Hafler and they were equally good driving my KEF monitors.

and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes?


Because it's a very limited demand product.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

cporro wrote:
mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some
avantone mixcubes as secondaries.

turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a
passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little
about pairing amps with speakers.

there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to
sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a
nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening.

i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on
doing a lot of mixing on them.

any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things?
i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know
little about power amps.


The horrortones are very easy to drive and since they have no top or bottom
end, they don't put a lot of stress on an amp.

i was thinking something around $200 that way the passives + amp would
cost the same as the actives i had budgeted for.


There's a Symetrix A220 on Ebay with a $90 buy it now, and a Symetrix 420
with a $100 buy it now. Both are STK module based things, basically consumer
receiver output stages in a nice rackmount cabinet. They aren't very high
fi, but they are no worse than the D75 (can anything be worse than the D75?),
they are cheap and reliable, and they will be fine driving Horrortones.

and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes?


Because they are basically clones of the original Auratone cubes, or they
try to be. There used to be a lot of Auratone threads.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them?

scott, i think these are supposed to be updated and better then the
horrortones. but then again the website says they are "full range" and
i don't know what they mean by that. i'll probably never A/B them
with the originals so never know for sure. i have noticed a few people
mastering with them as secondaries. they make a powered version but no
one has them in stock and can't find them used. but i think i can pick
up the passives.

so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha.

the bryston b2 i'm looking at is $365 and looks to be prehistoric. all
it says on the front is bryston and i can't tell how you control the
amp level.

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

cporro wrote:
mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them?


I think he believes that it is not advisable to use them as main mix
monitors. I would agree with that.

scott, i think these are supposed to be updated and better then the
horrortones. but then again the website says they are "full range" and
i don't know what they mean by that. i'll probably never A/B them
with the originals so never know for sure. i have noticed a few people
mastering with them as secondaries. they make a powered version but no
one has them in stock and can't find them used. but i think i can pick
up the passives.


They are full range drivers in a box, meaning there is just one driver
for the whole frequency range, rather than a 2-way system. This is what
makes them useful; low frequencies make them break up badly, high frequencies
are lost, so you can predict what will happen on TV.

so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha.


Not really, but I don't see any reason to spend $400 to drive crap.

the bryston b2 i'm looking at is $365 and looks to be prehistoric. all
it says on the front is bryston and i can't tell how you control the
amp level.


Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. The Adcom 535 and
555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option
but most of the used ones you see will not have them. The Symetrix units
vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled
stereo controls.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

On 5/25/2011 12:16 PM, cporro wrote:
mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them?


Yes. The original Auratones (of which these are a modernized
version) were intended as REFERNCE speakers - to see what
gets lost when your mix is played through a typical home
system of the 70s. The Avantones serve the same purpose only
they're closer to a low end home system of the 00s.

If you mix on good speakers in a decent acoustic space
you'll get the best mix you can have for any speaker. If you
optimize your mix on crummy speakers, it probably won't
sound very good on any speakers other than the ones you
mixed it on.

the website says they are "full range" and
i don't know what they mean by that.


It means that the highs and lows aren't split to two
different speakers. A single speaker carries the full range
of whatever the system reproduces.

so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha.


No, drive a limited-range speaker with a decent amplifier,
but don't go overboard. Most of the audible difference
between power amplifiers is in tightness of the low bass and
clarity in the high treble regions. Since these small "full
range" speakers don't have any low bass or high treble, it
doesn't matter how good the amplifier performs in those
ranges. But it should have ample power and sufficiently low
distortion to drive them cleanly in the range that they cover.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?


I think he believes that it is not advisable to use them as main mix
monitors. *I would agree with that.


roger that. i'm think half my time but we'll see.

They are full range drivers in a box, meaning there is just one driver
for the whole frequency range, rather than a 2-way system. *This is what
makes them useful; low frequencies make them break up badly, high frequencies
are lost, so you can predict what will happen on TV.


oh, that makes sense. i read that as full frequency range output.
you're saying full frequency is sent to one driver.

Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. *The Adcom 535 and
555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option
but most of the used ones you see will not have them. *


so i'd adjust the output from my converter?

The Symetrix units
vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled
stereo controls.


so you'd have to calibrate each channel?

i'm only looking into this amp thing because a few people claim they
have used nicer amps to drive these and they could tell a big
difference.

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

cporro wrote:

Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. =A0The Adcom 535 an=

d
555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option
but most of the used ones you see will not have them. =A0


so i'd adjust the output from my converter?


Right, or from the monitor panel in your console. Or from an outboard
monitor routing box.

The Symetrix units
vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled
stereo controls.


so you'd have to calibrate each channel?


That's what you normally do... the console lets you switch between two or
three sets of monitors. Each channel of each monitor is calibrated so when
you switch from one set to the next the levels remain the same, or as much
the same as they can be when your response is rough. If you are using a
DAW with no console you get a routing panel that has similar functions to
the routing in the console master section or monitor section.

i'm only looking into this amp thing because a few people claim they
have used nicer amps to drive these and they could tell a big
difference.


They might be able to, but is that a good thing or a bad thing? After all,
the whole purpose of the Horrortones is to be inaccurate.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

sorry for all the silly questions. i've never used anything but active
monitors and i don't have the history in commercial studios you guys
do. that's why i come here. and thx, i've made decisions on both of
your inputs over the years with no regrets. when i actu

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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

You want to avoid hemorrhaging money, call the folks at Quam, order two
5" full-range speakers for three or four bucks, put them in boxes. *Go.

Personally I am more partial to the 8" whizzer-cone speakers intended
for installed sound and paging system. *An extra $20 gets you a cheesy
wall-mount cabinet made out of particle board. *Actually not a bad check
mix monitor at all.


don't know if this rational is correct. but diy stuff seems to have no
resale value and no resale audience. i can rationalize gear purchases
a lot better if i feel i can unload them for a decent price. also, if
you drink with friends you can never be an alcoholic. to be honest
i'm pretty sure from reading you for a while...you are way handier
then i. not sure i trust myself for a diy. there a lot of things worse
then GAS.

hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think
they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would
be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good
idea?



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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

On 5/25/2011 1:01 PM, cporro wrote:
sorry for all the silly questions. i've never used anything but active
monitors


Active monitors have gain controls, too. You still need to
"calibrate" the system with them.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

On 5/25/2011 3:07 PM, cporro wrote:

don't know if this rational is correct. but diy stuff seems to have no
resale value and no resale audience. i can rationalize gear purchases
a lot better if i feel i can unload them for a decent price.


You shouldn't buy gear with the idea of re-selling it, you
should buy it to use it, and you should get enough use out
of it to justify the price even if you bury it when you're
done with it. If you can get a little money out of it, fine,
but that shouldn't be why you buy gear.

DIY gear really doesn't have any resale value, but then it
doesn't cost as much as commercial gear. Scott was telling
you to buy a couple of $20 speakers rather than spend the
money on the Avantones.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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PStamler PStamler is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

On May 25, 2:07*pm, cporro wrote:
hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think
they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would
be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good
idea?


You're misunderstanding the power ratings on the mixcubes. Power
ratings on speakers typically tell you how much power they'll soak up
before they blow, not how much power they need.

The specs on the Swee****er site say the mixcubes have a sensitivity
of 93dB-SPL for the equivalent of 1W in. If that number is correct, a
10W amp will let you monitor at 83dB-SPL with 20dB of headroom, which
is plenty. More power than that is gravy.

Peace,
Paul
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[email protected] 0junk4me@bellsouth.net is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

Mike Rivers writes:

You shouldn't buy gear with the idea of re-selling it, you
should buy it to use it, and you should get enough use out
of it to justify the price even if you bury it when you're
done with it. If you can get a little money out of it, fine,
but that shouldn't be why you buy gear.

YEp, when I use it up, usually I've used it up g. Except
for recently, as in 2005, Katrina took a bunch of gear away
from me g. I didn't get any money for it either g.

DIY gear really doesn't have any resale value, but then it
doesn't cost as much as commercial gear. Scott was telling
you to buy a couple of $20 speakers rather than spend the
money on the Avantones.

YEp, anything that's a full range driver such as the paging
etc. speakers he mentioned and their cheapo wall enclosures,
the key is full range driver.
That's what I liked about the awfultone cubes back in the
day, they told me what the mix would sound like on a tv set,
or mom's clock radio.




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com


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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

cporro wrote:

mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some
avantone mixcubes as secondaries.


turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a
passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little
about pairing amps with speakers.


http://www.thomann.de/dk/the_tamp_pm...tufenmodul.htm

would be my first choice for something matching in assumed price and quality
range.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen







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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

cporro wrote:

hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think
they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would
be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good
idea?


Those things are TV set speakers. Look inside a TV set, you'll see an amp
in the one or two watt range.

Five watts will drive them well beyond any normal volume range.

The argument for a higher powered amp is that you get a lower output impedance
and this could result in better damping, but really it doesn't matter.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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cporro cporro is offline
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Default amp for avantone mixcubes?

thx you guys. if in san francisco let me know. i'll buy you a beer and
take you shark fishing.

yes i was confused by the wattage rating on these. but now i know a
few important things such as that sensitivity rating. but the first
time i read about that it didn't add up to me...i mean the volume was
so high for only 1 watt i figured it couldn't be right.

i only buy gear with resale in mind because i'm usually not an expert
on it. in a month i may find it does not fill my needs and i may want
to recoup a bit. but i have kept all my mics. good tip mike. i didn't
know you were near new orleans. sorry to hear about your lost gear. i
bet that wasn't nearly the worst of it.

every gear purchase for me is a bit of an education. i found and
purchased the passive mixcubes locally. and i got an older bryston 2b
off of ebay for $365 w/shipping. not a great deal i suppose but ok. in
a few days they will arrive and i'll start my mini education. i may do
an A/B shootout with the bryston and something like those 150w alesis
just so i can hear.

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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On 5/27/2011 12:15 AM, cporro wrote:

i only buy gear with resale in mind because i'm usually not an expert
on it. in a month i may find it does not fill my needs and i may want
to recoup a bit. but i have kept all my mics. good tip mike.


A day is sometimes ample time to decide that something is
useful to you or not, but often you'll need more time to
evaluate it. I tend to buy things that are new, from
legitimate dealers, so that if I don't like it, I can return
it for a full refund (I don't buy from dealers who have a
restocking fee or don't accept returns on certain things -
like mics from Guitar Center). When I buy something that's
used, it's usually because I've had experience with it
before or I've always wanted one (often long after it's
become obsolete, therefore cheap), or it's a commodity item
that I know I'll use some time.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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