Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some
avantone mixcubes as secondaries. turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little about pairing amps with speakers. there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening. i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on doing a lot of mixing on them. any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things? i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know little about power amps. i was thinking something around $200 that way the passives + amp would cost the same as the actives i had budgeted for. and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On 5/25/2011 1:40 AM, cporro wrote:
there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening. i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on doing a lot of mixing on them. That really isn't advisable, but if that's what you're going to do anyway, you might as well get a decent amplifier so you won't inject other forms of distortion that aren't going to be "fixable" in your mixing. any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things? i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know little about power amps. Bryston - good. Crown D75 - not so good. There's an Adcom 555 I think that Scott recommends. Maybe you can find a Hafler DH-220 or DH-225. A bit of an outlier but would probably work just fine is the Alesis RA-500. It's a discontinued model but I picked up a used one for $90 at a local Guitar Center on the recommendation of a trusted engineer friend when I needed something to tide me over while I troubleshot my Hafler. I compared them after I fixed the Hafler and they were equally good driving my KEF monitors. and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes? Because it's a very limited demand product. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
cporro wrote:
mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some avantone mixcubes as secondaries. turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little about pairing amps with speakers. there seem to be 2 schools of thought on this. you want the thing to sound real world or bad so any amp is fine. and it's worth getting a nice amp for better monitoring and ease of listening. i don't plan on using the mixcubes for a real world check...i plan on doing a lot of mixing on them. any opinions on this one from people who have tried out a few things? i've seen the bryston 2bs mentioned, the crown d75 but i really know little about power amps. The horrortones are very easy to drive and since they have no top or bottom end, they don't put a lot of stress on an amp. i was thinking something around $200 that way the passives + amp would cost the same as the actives i had budgeted for. There's a Symetrix A220 on Ebay with a $90 buy it now, and a Symetrix 420 with a $100 buy it now. Both are STK module based things, basically consumer receiver output stages in a nice rackmount cabinet. They aren't very high fi, but they are no worse than the D75 (can anything be worse than the D75?), they are cheap and reliable, and they will be fine driving Horrortones. and how come there isn't a single thread on the avantone mixcubes? Because they are basically clones of the original Auratone cubes, or they try to be. There used to be a lot of Auratone threads. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them?
scott, i think these are supposed to be updated and better then the horrortones. but then again the website says they are "full range" and i don't know what they mean by that. i'll probably never A/B them with the originals so never know for sure. i have noticed a few people mastering with them as secondaries. they make a powered version but no one has them in stock and can't find them used. but i think i can pick up the passives. so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha. the bryston b2 i'm looking at is $365 and looks to be prehistoric. all it says on the front is bryston and i can't tell how you control the amp level. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
cporro wrote:
mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them? I think he believes that it is not advisable to use them as main mix monitors. I would agree with that. scott, i think these are supposed to be updated and better then the horrortones. but then again the website says they are "full range" and i don't know what they mean by that. i'll probably never A/B them with the originals so never know for sure. i have noticed a few people mastering with them as secondaries. they make a powered version but no one has them in stock and can't find them used. but i think i can pick up the passives. They are full range drivers in a box, meaning there is just one driver for the whole frequency range, rather than a 2-way system. This is what makes them useful; low frequencies make them break up badly, high frequencies are lost, so you can predict what will happen on TV. so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha. Not really, but I don't see any reason to spend $400 to drive crap. the bryston b2 i'm looking at is $365 and looks to be prehistoric. all it says on the front is bryston and i can't tell how you control the amp level. Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. The Adcom 535 and 555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option but most of the used ones you see will not have them. The Symetrix units vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled stereo controls. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On 5/25/2011 12:16 PM, cporro wrote:
mike, so what's not advisable? spending lot of time mixing on them? Yes. The original Auratones (of which these are a modernized version) were intended as REFERNCE speakers - to see what gets lost when your mix is played through a typical home system of the 70s. The Avantones serve the same purpose only they're closer to a low end home system of the 00s. If you mix on good speakers in a decent acoustic space you'll get the best mix you can have for any speaker. If you optimize your mix on crummy speakers, it probably won't sound very good on any speakers other than the ones you mixed it on. the website says they are "full range" and i don't know what they mean by that. It means that the highs and lows aren't split to two different speakers. A single speaker carries the full range of whatever the system reproduces. so i take it you are both in the drive crap with crap camp. ha. No, drive a limited-range speaker with a decent amplifier, but don't go overboard. Most of the audible difference between power amplifiers is in tightness of the low bass and clarity in the high treble regions. Since these small "full range" speakers don't have any low bass or high treble, it doesn't matter how good the amplifier performs in those ranges. But it should have ample power and sufficiently low distortion to drive them cleanly in the range that they cover. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
I think he believes that it is not advisable to use them as main mix monitors. *I would agree with that. roger that. i'm think half my time but we'll see. They are full range drivers in a box, meaning there is just one driver for the whole frequency range, rather than a 2-way system. *This is what makes them useful; low frequencies make them break up badly, high frequencies are lost, so you can predict what will happen on TV. oh, that makes sense. i read that as full frequency range output. you're saying full frequency is sent to one driver. Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. *The Adcom 535 and 555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option but most of the used ones you see will not have them. * so i'd adjust the output from my converter? The Symetrix units vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled stereo controls. so you'd have to calibrate each channel? i'm only looking into this amp thing because a few people claim they have used nicer amps to drive these and they could tell a big difference. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
cporro wrote:
Most of those amplifiers will not have gain controls. =A0The Adcom 535 an= d 555 could be ordered with a gain control as a special extra-cost option but most of the used ones you see will not have them. =A0 so i'd adjust the output from my converter? Right, or from the monitor panel in your console. Or from an outboard monitor routing box. The Symetrix units vary; some have gain screws, some have knobs, none of them have coupled stereo controls. so you'd have to calibrate each channel? That's what you normally do... the console lets you switch between two or three sets of monitors. Each channel of each monitor is calibrated so when you switch from one set to the next the levels remain the same, or as much the same as they can be when your response is rough. If you are using a DAW with no console you get a routing panel that has similar functions to the routing in the console master section or monitor section. i'm only looking into this amp thing because a few people claim they have used nicer amps to drive these and they could tell a big difference. They might be able to, but is that a good thing or a bad thing? After all, the whole purpose of the Horrortones is to be inaccurate. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
sorry for all the silly questions. i've never used anything but active
monitors and i don't have the history in commercial studios you guys do. that's why i come here. and thx, i've made decisions on both of your inputs over the years with no regrets. when i actu |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
You want to avoid hemorrhaging money, call the folks at Quam, order two
5" full-range speakers for three or four bucks, put them in boxes. *Go. Personally I am more partial to the 8" whizzer-cone speakers intended for installed sound and paging system. *An extra $20 gets you a cheesy wall-mount cabinet made out of particle board. *Actually not a bad check mix monitor at all. don't know if this rational is correct. but diy stuff seems to have no resale value and no resale audience. i can rationalize gear purchases a lot better if i feel i can unload them for a decent price. also, if you drink with friends you can never be an alcoholic. to be honest i'm pretty sure from reading you for a while...you are way handier then i. not sure i trust myself for a diy. there a lot of things worse then GAS. hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good idea? |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On 5/25/2011 1:01 PM, cporro wrote:
sorry for all the silly questions. i've never used anything but active monitors Active monitors have gain controls, too. You still need to "calibrate" the system with them. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On 5/25/2011 3:07 PM, cporro wrote:
don't know if this rational is correct. but diy stuff seems to have no resale value and no resale audience. i can rationalize gear purchases a lot better if i feel i can unload them for a decent price. You shouldn't buy gear with the idea of re-selling it, you should buy it to use it, and you should get enough use out of it to justify the price even if you bury it when you're done with it. If you can get a little money out of it, fine, but that shouldn't be why you buy gear. DIY gear really doesn't have any resale value, but then it doesn't cost as much as commercial gear. Scott was telling you to buy a couple of $20 speakers rather than spend the money on the Avantones. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On May 25, 2:07*pm, cporro wrote:
hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good idea? You're misunderstanding the power ratings on the mixcubes. Power ratings on speakers typically tell you how much power they'll soak up before they blow, not how much power they need. The specs on the Swee****er site say the mixcubes have a sensitivity of 93dB-SPL for the equivalent of 1W in. If that number is correct, a 10W amp will let you monitor at 83dB-SPL with 20dB of headroom, which is plenty. More power than that is gravy. Peace, Paul |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
Mike Rivers writes:
You shouldn't buy gear with the idea of re-selling it, you should buy it to use it, and you should get enough use out of it to justify the price even if you bury it when you're done with it. If you can get a little money out of it, fine, but that shouldn't be why you buy gear. YEp, when I use it up, usually I've used it up g. Except for recently, as in 2005, Katrina took a bunch of gear away from me g. I didn't get any money for it either g. DIY gear really doesn't have any resale value, but then it doesn't cost as much as commercial gear. Scott was telling you to buy a couple of $20 speakers rather than spend the money on the Avantones. YEp, anything that's a full range driver such as the paging etc. speakers he mentioned and their cheapo wall enclosures, the key is full range driver. That's what I liked about the awfultone cubes back in the day, they told me what the mix would sound like on a tv set, or mom's clock radio. Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
cporro wrote:
mackie hr842 are my primary monitors but was going to pick up some avantone mixcubes as secondaries. turns out no one has the active cubes...but i can probably find a passive pair (or maybe a single one). thing is i know very little about pairing amps with speakers. http://www.thomann.de/dk/the_tamp_pm...tufenmodul.htm would be my first choice for something matching in assumed price and quality range. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
cporro wrote:
hey, aren't those Symetrix amps underpowered for the mixcubes? i think they want between 50-200watts at 8 ohms per channel. not that i would be listening to them loud at all. but wouldn't some headroom be a good idea? Those things are TV set speakers. Look inside a TV set, you'll see an amp in the one or two watt range. Five watts will drive them well beyond any normal volume range. The argument for a higher powered amp is that you get a lower output impedance and this could result in better damping, but really it doesn't matter. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
thx you guys. if in san francisco let me know. i'll buy you a beer and
take you shark fishing. yes i was confused by the wattage rating on these. but now i know a few important things such as that sensitivity rating. but the first time i read about that it didn't add up to me...i mean the volume was so high for only 1 watt i figured it couldn't be right. i only buy gear with resale in mind because i'm usually not an expert on it. in a month i may find it does not fill my needs and i may want to recoup a bit. but i have kept all my mics. good tip mike. i didn't know you were near new orleans. sorry to hear about your lost gear. i bet that wasn't nearly the worst of it. every gear purchase for me is a bit of an education. i found and purchased the passive mixcubes locally. and i got an older bryston 2b off of ebay for $365 w/shipping. not a great deal i suppose but ok. in a few days they will arrive and i'll start my mini education. i may do an A/B shootout with the bryston and something like those 150w alesis just so i can hear. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
amp for avantone mixcubes?
On 5/27/2011 12:15 AM, cporro wrote:
i only buy gear with resale in mind because i'm usually not an expert on it. in a month i may find it does not fill my needs and i may want to recoup a bit. but i have kept all my mics. good tip mike. A day is sometimes ample time to decide that something is useful to you or not, but often you'll need more time to evaluate it. I tend to buy things that are new, from legitimate dealers, so that if I don't like it, I can return it for a full refund (I don't buy from dealers who have a restocking fee or don't accept returns on certain things - like mics from Guitar Center). When I buy something that's used, it's usually because I've had experience with it before or I've always wanted one (often long after it's become obsolete, therefore cheap), or it's a commodity item that I know I'll use some time. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |