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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Hi,
I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote
(in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Kulin Remailer" wrote in message
I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. I have one, and find it to be eminantly useful and usable. Sounds good to me! I also did some bench tests on it, and it performs about as well as a good stereo receiver. It is approximately CD quality. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I've played some FLAC files on mine, and they played well. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. The battery runs the machine for 12-15 hours depending on how bright you run the display and how long and how often. For the $35 or so that I paid for mine, I think it would be a good deal ever if I had to replace it every few years because the battery had became worn out. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On 2010-12-06, Kulin Remailer wrote:
Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. I've had a Sansa Clip+ for about 18 months now. I use Etymotic ER4-S in-ear phones and Sony MDR-7206. The Clip+ is about the size of a matchbox. I think the sound quality of this combination is sufficient to consider it a high-end device. Battery life playing FLAC is about 12 hours per charge; 384Kb/s VBR MP3 gets about 15 hours per charge. Charging takes about 3 hours via USB. I have not noticed a decrease in battery life yet; I use it for an hour or two most days. -dsr- -- http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. You can't defend freedom by getting rid of it. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
In article ,
Kulin Remailer writes: Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. I have a Sansa Fuse, which highly resembles the previous iPod Nano design. I chose the Fuze since it has a microSD port for memory expansion beyond the 4G it comes with. I use Sony in-ear phones and 192K VBR MP3s I rip with Exact Audio Copy. I am quite satisfied with the combo for portable listening. I get around 15 hours between charges. -- David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Audio Empire" wrote in message
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? We've got two votes for 12-15 hour battery life, good sound, and good build quality. The Sansa Fuze is larger, has longer battery life and a larger display. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Thanks to all who have responded. I read your comments, thanks for taking
the time to post them. Due to the software I use for posting, my posts are often lost. Some may show up out of order. I responded earlier but nothing's shown up yet. At this point the Clip+ looks to be worth trying given the price/feature ratio. If it turns out to be a dud as Audio Empire had said then I suppose I'll try and sell it to a high school student :-) Cheers, Alan |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Sansa Clip is a good MP3 player, simple enough to operate in five
minutes without the instructions. It doesn't need to be used with PC software. They say sound quality has been improved. My teenage daughter's Clip was a daily driver for two years... I think she pulled the control mechanism button off because she wanted a more Gig model. She bought a Sansa Fuse+. The Fuse is slick once the "swiping" menu access is mastered. I would get a Clip. I still have one of the original iRiver MP3 players. It sounds very good (MP3 320). I think the iRiver sounds slightly better (cleaner/ less tubby w/ MP3 comparison only) than the older model Sansa Clip. I haven't spent enough time with the Fuse+ to comment about it's sound compared to the iRiver. I no longer see iRiver players in stores, but they still exist ( http://www.iriver.com/product/list.asp?pCode=001 ) |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:46:01 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? Yeah, They used to be lousy. Nice to see they've improved 'em. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"ScottW" wrote in message
I've had one for over 6 months. Sounds great on VBR files I use. I replaced the stock earbuds with some Sony (forget the model, ~$60). Sounds great to me. I don't think I've ever listened to any of the digital players I've ever purchased with the earbuds/earphones that came with them. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On 12/11/2010 9:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
I don't think I've ever listened to any of the digital players I've ever purchased with the earbuds/earphones that came with them. I tried the ones that came with my first iPod. They hurt my ears so much that that lasted about 5 minutes. They also kept falling out. Doug McDonald |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 11:57:57 -0800, Doug McDonald wrote
(in article ): On 12/11/2010 9:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote: I don't think I've ever listened to any of the digital players I've ever purchased with the earbuds/earphones that came with them. I tried the ones that came with my first iPod. They hurt my ears so much that that lasted about 5 minutes. They also kept falling out. Doug McDonald Earbuds seem to be designed on the (obviously false) premise that everyone has that little fold of skin at the bottom of their outer ear, near the lobe, which forms a channel that the ear buds can hang in. While many people do have that fold, just as many don't. Those who don't can't keep ear buds in place. There's nothing to hold them in the ear. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On 12/12/2010 11:15 PM, Audio Empire wrote:
Earbuds seem to be designed on the (obviously false) premise that everyone has that little fold of skin at the bottom of their outer ear, near the lobe, which forms a channel that the ear buds can hang in. While many people do have that fold, just as many don't. Those who don't can't keep ear buds in place. There's nothing to hold them in the ear. Exactly, and I have huge ears. This is off-topic, but so what! I'm using Sony MDR-V150 headphones while exercising. They are the best I tried at Best Buy or, before its death, Circuit City. Are there better ones suitable for such use? They have to fit several requirements, including a tightly closed design, a headband that will fit under my straw hat, and not be too heavy. This lets out the very high-end designs. Doug McDonald |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Dec 6, 9:17=A0am, Kulin Remailer wrote:
Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you gu= ys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I ha= ve a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non use= r replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. I have owned a Sansa Clip (same as the Clip+ but no slots for expansion) for over two years. I use Rhapsody for device management. The sound quality is pretty good for a bargain price. I instantly bought new earbuds (Sennheiser and Skullcandy), which improved the sound quality to shockingly good levels. I also use Sennheiser PX-100 on-ear headphones, which can be driven by the Clip. Considering the price and size, the Clip is a great low cost alternative to the expensive toys sold by the fruit company. The Clip or Clip+ is available at Amazon or Costco. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Kulin Remailer wrote:
Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. **Based on the comments in this thread, I purchased a Sansa Fuze. It is, far and away, the nicest MP3 player I've used. Sound quality is excellent, whilst the user controls are the best I've seen. All in all, highly recommended. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Thanks for your update and congrats on your new player!
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#17
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Audio Empire" wrote in message
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:46:01 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? Yeah, They used to be lousy. Nice to see they've improved 'em. One tiny glitch - they play music 0.25% fast. I confirmed this with measurements on my Clip+. There is a fix - third party firmware called "Rockbox". |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Kulin Remailer wrote:
Thanks for your update and congrats on your new player! **It's a gift for someone and I am so mightily impressed, I may buy one for myself. It really is head and shoulders above many other MP3 players I've used. FWIW, it appears to be beautfully constructed too. I just love the way it works. Very intuitive. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:19:30 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:46:01 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? Yeah, They used to be lousy. Nice to see they've improved 'em. One tiny glitch - they play music 0.25% fast. I confirmed this with measurements on my Clip+. There is a fix - third party firmware called "Rockbox". One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. I suspect that the worlds best turntables aren't that close to the perfect speed nor were the cutting lathes that did the masters. I don't know what percent speed error that CD allows, but I'll bet it's not much better. It's one of those differences that make no difference. I certainly wouldn't worry about it (unless Arny put his decimal point in the wrong place when he posted the above). What made you check, anyway? |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:59:47 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote
(in article ): Kulin Remailer wrote: Thanks for your update and congrats on your new player! **It's a gift for someone and I am so mightily impressed, I may buy one for myself. It really is head and shoulders above many other MP3 players I've used. FWIW, it appears to be beautfully constructed too. I just love the way it works. Very intuitive. It's cheap too. I wouldn't replace my iPod Touch with one, but I think that I would contemplate one before I purchased a Shuffle, a Nano, or a Classic! |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On 22/12/2010 5:49 AM, Audio Empire wrote:
One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. Err, quavers measure *duration*. Pitch is measured in tones and semitones, or commas and cents, or in Hertz. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:51:13 -0800, Esmond Pitt wrote
(in article ): On 22/12/2010 5:49 AM, Audio Empire wrote: One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. Err, quavers measure *duration*. Pitch is measured in tones and semitones, or commas and cents, or in Hertz. No, it's proper. The faster the playback runs, the shorter the duration of each note, the slower it runs, the longer the duration of each note. |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Audio Empire wrote:
On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 11:57:57 -0800, Doug McDonald wrote (in article ): On 12/11/2010 9:25 PM, Arny Krueger wrote: I don't think I've ever listened to any of the digital players I've ever purchased with the earbuds/earphones that came with them. I tried the ones that came with my first iPod. They hurt my ears so much that that lasted about 5 minutes. They also kept falling out. Doug McDonald Earbuds seem to be designed on the (obviously false) premise that everyone has that little fold of skin at the bottom of their outer ear, near the lobe, which forms a channel that the ear buds can hang in. While many people do have that fold, just as many don't. Those who don't can't keep ear buds in place. There's nothing to hold them in the ear. **Correct. I can't wear the buggers either. I have touse the ones with a clip that fits around my pinna. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
Audio Empire wrote:
One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. Haha! I love the use of the old British term "quaver" for musical notation. I have rarely heard it since studying music in '70's here in California. My recollection is that "quavers" refer to time and rhythm and not pitch. Wikipedia confirmed that a "quaver" is an eight note and a semi-quaver is a sixteenth note. I remember that you could string the terms together for really silly sounding, and confusing terms. The fraction analogy works much better, I think. (I.e. eight, sixteenth, 1/32, etc.) BTW, I agree that a .25% increase would be hard to hear. Digitally, I think it would just affect the tempo, and not the pitch. Thanks for the laugh! - Paul |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Audio Empire" wrote in message
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:19:30 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:46:01 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? Yeah, They used to be lousy. Nice to see they've improved 'em. One tiny glitch - they play music 0.25% fast. I confirmed this with measurements on my Clip+. There is a fix - third party firmware called "Rockbox". One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. A brief study suggests that the Just Noticable Difference (JND) in pitch is itself a function of pitch, but that 0.5% is a reasonable approximation: http://www.avatar.com.au/courses/PPo...g/psycho1.html I suspect that the worlds best turntables aren't that close to the perfect speed If they are stable once adjusted, very close adjustments can be accomplished by many means including the classic stroboscope. 0.1% accuracy is not unobtainable with turntables and cutting lathes. r were the cutting lathes that did the masters. I don't know what percent speed error that CD allows, but I'll bet it's not much better. CD speed accuracy is as good as the time base in the players and recorders used to make and play them. Good digital equipment uses 0.005% accuracy crystals for their time base. It's one of those differences that make no difference. I certainly wouldn't worry about it (unless Arny put his decimal point in the wrong place when he posted the above). In other terms, it is pretty well known that a Clip running the current OEM firmware plays a 1000 Hz tone at 1000.25 Hz. What made you check, anyway? There has been some discussion of this fact on other forums. |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 07:16:04 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:19:30 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:46:01 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Audio Empire" wrote in message On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:17:17 -0800, Kulin Remailer wrote (in article ): Hi, I know portable players are not exactly "high end audio" but since you guys DO know good audio I want to ask your opinions on this player. One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. Can't say about that specific model, but all the Sansa's I've heard sound terrible, have lousy battery life, and are cheaply made. ???? Some earlier model? Yeah, They used to be lousy. Nice to see they've improved 'em. One tiny glitch - they play music 0.25% fast. I confirmed this with measurements on my Clip+. There is a fix - third party firmware called "Rockbox". One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. A brief study suggests that the Just Noticable Difference (JND) in pitch is itself a function of pitch, but that 0.5% is a reasonable approximation: http://www.avatar.com.au/courses/PPo...g/psycho1.html I suspect that the worlds best turntables aren't that close to the perfect speed If they are stable once adjusted, very close adjustments can be accomplished by many means including the classic stroboscope. 0.1% accuracy is not unobtainable with turntables and cutting lathes. r were the cutting lathes that did the masters. I don't know what percent speed error that CD allows, but I'll bet it's not much better. CD speed accuracy is as good as the time base in the players and recorders used to make and play them. Good digital equipment uses 0.005% accuracy crystals for their time base. It's one of those differences that make no difference. I certainly wouldn't worry about it (unless Arny put his decimal point in the wrong place when he posted the above). In other terms, it is pretty well known that a Clip running the current OEM firmware plays a 1000 Hz tone at 1000.25 Hz. That's pitch, not tempo. I would have thought that a digital player running fast, would affect tempo rather than pitch. I.E., Middle C on the piano is 440 Hz fundamental. That means that the Sansa plays it back as 440.11 (more or less) and that's a little sharp. What made you check, anyway? There has been some discussion of this fact on other forums. Ah! But do YOU notice the difference? I don't think I would, and I'm pretty sensitive to pitch. |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 07:15:34 -0800, Paul D. Spiegel wrote
(in article ): Audio Empire wrote: One quarter of one percent fast? I doubt if even someone with perfect pitch would notice that, it's not even a semi-hemi-demi quaver (1/64th note) off pitch. Haha! I love the use of the old British term "quaver" for musical notation. I have rarely heard it since studying music in '70's here in California. My recollection is that "quavers" refer to time and rhythm and not pitch. Wikipedia confirmed that a "quaver" is an eight note and a semi-quaver is a sixteenth note. I remember that you could string the terms together for really silly sounding, and confusing terms. The fraction analogy works much better, I think. (I.e. eight, sixteenth, 1/32, etc.) BTW, I agree that a .25% increase would be hard to hear. Digitally, I think it would just affect the tempo, and not the pitch. Thanks for the laugh! - Paul Since a speed variation would cause a note to go either flat or sharp (in analogue terms) it is an appropriate (if a bit arcane - and you're right, I used it humorously ) word to use. BUT, you bring-up a good point. In digital, running fast would not affect pitch, but rather tempo. And something running 0.25% fast or slow would not be detectable either way. |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:27:04 -0800, Dick Pierce wrote
(in article ): Audio Empire wrote: BUT, you bring-up a good point. But one that is quite wrong. In digital, running fast would not affect pitch, but rather tempo. Uh, it most assuredly DOES affect pitch, exactly the same way it does in an analog system. Hmm I read somewhere that just the opposite was true. But I'll take your word for it! Your explanation, below, makes sense. Consider the following. At 44.1 kHz sampling rate, a 1 kHz tone has a positive going zero-crossing occuring once every 44.1 samples. If the playback sample rate is, in fact, 44.1 kHz, or one sample every 0.000022675 seconds (22.675 uS), that zero crossing will occur once every 44.1 * 0.000022675 or 0.001 seconds. That folks, is 1 kHz. Now, change your playback sample rate to, oh, 45 kHz, or on sample every 0.00002222 seconds (22.222 uS). Now, the zero crossings, occuring every 44.1 samples, arrive every 44.1 * 0.00002222 or 0.00098 seconds (0.98 mS), and that, kind people, is about 1020.41 Hz. Yes, it affects tempo, including the tempo of individual elements of waveforms and the very samples that make them up. Take it from me, I was very heavily involved in the design and implementation of a vari-speed, vari-tempo and vari-pitch DSP processing for a high-end digital editing workstations and our life would have been FAR easier if your assertion were true. But to get a pitch chift in digital without a tempo change, or a tempo change without a pitch shift is a REALLY tough job. Simply varying the sample rate CAN NOT do it. And don't anyone dare say you can't have a waveform taking up 44.1 sample in digital or any phenomenon involving fractional sample periods, because I will stop this car, find a good sturdy willow branch and switch your sorry bottoms into next week. Merry Christmas to you too! 8^) |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Audio Empire" wrote in message
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 07:16:04 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): In other terms, it is pretty well known that a Clip running the current OEM firmware plays a 1000 Hz tone at 1000.25 Hz. That's pitch, not tempo. In this case, they are locked together. I would have thought that a digital player running fast, would affect tempo rather than pitch. I.E., Middle C on the piano is 440 Hz fundamental. That means that the Sansa plays it back as 440.11 (more or less) and that's a little sharp. Unless some far more complex trickery is used, pitch and tempo are locked together. FWIW I not infrequently use software that allows me to alter pitch and tempo independently, but it takes a lot more than storing and playing a digital file to accomplish such things. What made you check, anyway? There has been some discussion of this fact on other forums. Ah! But do YOU notice the difference? I never did, but I don't have anything like perfect pitch. I don't think I would, and I'm pretty sensitive to pitch. Since it is about half the widely given and scientifically-obtained Just Noticable Difference, it is pretty safe to say that very very few people if anybody can hear the difference. It's just a little irritating because the hardware is capable of far better performance. Much better performance is commonplace with digital recorders and players. The observed situation is due to a slight error in the firmware. |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Dec 23, 9:30=A0am, Scott wrote:
[quoted text deleted -- deb] kind of reminds me of a debate over this video.http://www.youtube.com/wat= ch?v=3D3D8alxBofd_eQ many people are convinced it has been sped up. I figured if it were sped up the notes would all be too high. I figured it would really tough to speed up the video and keep the pitch accurate. Link looks broken for some reason. here is another link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D8alxBofd_eQ |
#31
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
It's just a little irritating because the hardware is capable of far
better performance. Much better performance is commonplace with digital recorders and players. The observed situation is due to a slight error in the firmware. That's no error, it's just some smart engineer with an MBA that realized how he could save battery life. He gets .25% more music out of a battery charge than those crappy players that play music at the right pitch, and hardly anybody notices. ;-) |
#32
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Scott" wrote in message
kind of reminds me of a debate over this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D8alxBofd_eQ many people are convinced it has been sped up. I figured if it were sped up the notes would all be too high. I figured it would really tough to speed up the video and keep the pitch accurate. In this day and age, software that changes tempo and/or pitch independently is pretty common. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_t...h_modification I've been using this feature in Cool Edit Pro/Adobe Audition, which is mentioned in the article. It is generally but not always sonically acceptable. There's a definiate limit to how much alteration can be done while preserving sound quality. The article does not seem to cover a related technique for speech which involves detecting and altering the duration of the brief silences that commonly exist in recordings of speech. Interestingly enough, my Panasonic BD-65 Blu Ray player seems to attempt some kind of pitch-preserving time compression when implementing its first step of fast-forward processing. |
#33
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message
... [ Excess quotation snipped -- dsr ] Take it from me, I was very heavily involved in the design and implementation of a vari-speed, vari-tempo and vari-pitch DSP processing for a high-end digital editing workstations and our life would have been FAR easier if your assertion were true. But to get a pitch chift in digital without a tempo change, or a tempo change without a pitch shift is a REALLY tough job. Simply varying the sample rate CAN NOT do it. And don't anyone dare say you can't have a waveform taking up 44.1 sample in digital or any phenomenon involving fractional sample periods, because I will stop this car, find a good sturdy willow branch and switch your sorry bottoms into next week. You type while driving, Dick? :-) |
#34
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Dec 23, 4:22=A0pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message kind of reminds me of a debate over this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3D8alxBofd_eQ many people are convinced it has been sped up. I figured if it were sped up the notes would all be too high. I figured it would really tough to speed up the video and keep the pitch accurate. In this day and age, software that changes tempo and/or pitch independent= ly is pretty common. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_t...h_modification I've been using this feature in Cool Edit Pro/Adobe Audition, which is mentioned in the article. It is generally but not always sonically acceptable. There's a definiate limit to how much alteration can be done while preserving sound quality. The article does not seem to cover a related technique for speech which involves detecting and altering the duration of the brief silences that commonly exist in recordings of speech. Interestingly enough, my Panasonic BD-65 Blu Ray player seems to =A0attem= pt some kind of pitch-preserving time compression when implementing its firs= t step of fast-forward processing. So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. You can probably get away with some substantial sonic degredation on Youtube before anyone would complain. The thing I notice in that video is a slight lack of sync between the sound and image but that is pretty common on youtube videos so I thought little of it. |
#35
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
6 Dec 2010 15:17:17 GMT, Kulin Remailer wrote:
One of the main attractions is it's relatively cheap and plays FLAC. Cheap yes, just $42 (Sansa Clip+ 8GB) from my local Costco a day ago. And another $42 for decent in-ear units. Also (after struggling) finally got it to talk to my PC for xfer of my EAC *FLAC* files which are especially impressive. I have a large collection of FLAC rips of my CDs and this would save me from re-ripping everything in MP3 and losing quality. I don't like the non user replaceable battery, throw it away after the battery dies??? Any and all comments appreciated. The Clip+ is a nice unit. IMO use it with your FLAC rips. Bill |
#36
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Scott" wrote in message
So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. I do things like this routinely. You can probably get away with some substantial sonic degredation on Youtube before anyone would complain. One of the good news items about audio production is that your work doesn't have to pass a befre-and-after ABX test. The thing I notice in that video is a slight lack of sync between the sound and image but that is pretty common on youtube videos so I thought little of it. Loosing lip synch (or not even starting with it) is a common problem with video. Once you get the video and the audio in lip synch, there's no guarantee that they will stay together for the duration of the piece. Making adjustments so that lip synch is preserved is just another cannonical skill. |
#37
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
In article , Scott
wrote: So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. For audio, we use a neat little program in our department at the college called "The Amazing Slow Downer". http://www.ronimusic.com/ It's very help for slowing down music without changing the pitch, and it's inexpensive. -- www.jennifermartinmusic.com |
#38
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
On Dec 24, 8:15=A0am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. I do things like this routinely. I did not know you were dabbling in video as well. You can probably get away with some substantial sonic degredation on Youtube before anyone would complain. One of the good news items about audio production is that your work doesn= 't have to pass a befre-and-after ABX test. yeah no kidding. especially not for youtube. The thing I notice in that video is a slight lack of sync between the sound and image but that is pretty common on youtube videos so I thought little of it. Loosing lip synch (or not even starting with it) is a common problem with video. =A0Once you get the video and the audio in lip synch, there's no guarantee that they will stay together for the duration of the piece. Making adjustments so that lip synch is preserved is just another cannoni= cal skill. Thank you for your input Arny. I guess the debate shall rage on as to whether this video was sped up or not. I have an opinion but it is based on things that, well, don't really work as "proof." When I was working on and off at MAD TV i would go check out the sound checks for all of our musical guests, The proof was in the puddin right there as to who had the goods and who didn't. Sometimes it was surprising who delivered and who didn't. We had a few folks lip sync. One of them didn't even know she was lip syncing. Funny how that went down. |
#39
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Jenn" wrote in message
In article , Scott wrote: So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. For audio, we use a neat little program in our department at the college called "The Amazing Slow Downer". http://www.ronimusic.com/ It's very help for slowing down music without changing the pitch, and it's inexpensive. Yes, $50 is pocket change if you are at all serious about quality production. In my case a really-pretty-good slower-downer and speeder-upper came with Cool Edit Pro which I bought about 10 years ago for a couple of hundred dollars and use frequently to this day. However, I don't think there has really been anything that competes with CEP for the Mac. Yes, there are many other good editors, but CEP has always distinguished itself with the wide variety of quality special effects that simply came in the box. |
#40
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Comments on Sansa Clip+ ???
"Scott" wrote in message
On Dec 24, 8:15 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Scott" wrote in message So maybe it wouldn't be as difficult as I thought to speed up a Youtube video while maintaining the pitch. I do things like this routinely. I did not know you were dabbling in video as well. I do several video projects a week ranging from short videos to hour-long productions. But as usual I don't work in enviroments that would bring me much credit. You can probably get away with some substantial sonic degredation on Youtube before anyone would complain. One of the good news items about audio production is that your work doesn't have to pass a before-and-after ABX test. yeah no kidding. especially not for youtube. Youtube is often pretty casually-produced stuff. However, one sees quite a bit of suboptimal stuff on cable and the big networks as well. Big screens and HD make small errors more apparent, and digital seems to make errors more frequent. A bit of the old learning curve, I suspect. The thing I notice in that video is a slight lack of sync between the sound and image but that is pretty common on youtube videos so I thought little of it. Loosing lip synch (or not even starting with it) is a common problem with video. Once you get the video and the audio in lip synch, there's no guarantee that they will stay together for the duration of the piece. Making adjustments so that lip synch is preserved is just another cannonical skill. Thank you for your input Arny. I guess the debate shall rage on as to whether this video was sped up or not. I have an opinion but it is based on things that, well, don't really work as "proof." Exactly. When I was working on and off at MAD TV i would go check out the sound checks for all of our musical guests, The proof was in the puddin right there as to who had the goods and who didn't. Sometimes it was surprising who delivered and who didn't. We had a few folks lip sync. One of them didn't even know she was lip syncing. Funny how that went down. One of the problems with video lip synch is that it gets quite a bit harder to fix things closer than within a frame. IOW, the smallest nudge in the software I use is 1 frame which is not necessarily visually perfect. I see lots of stuff on TV that suggests that many of us work within these same basic limits. |
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