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August Karlstrom August Karlstrom is offline
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Default RCA to TRS cable

I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have found these two:

IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...ry=1&SubCat=24

QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm

Any other suggestions?


/August

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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:56:54 -0700, August Karlstrom wrote
(in article ):

I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have found these two:

IXOS XHA205

http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-products-
detail.asp?PROID=118&Category=1&SubCat=
24

QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm

Any other suggestions?


/August


If you've found two, why would you need other suggestions? Buy the cheapest
you can find that looks well made. Otherwise there is no difference.

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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:13:28 -0700, Dick Pierce wrote
(in article ):

August Karlstrom wrote:
I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have found these two:

IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...tegory=1&SubCa
t=24

QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm


Wow. Impressive.

By the looks of the QED cable, it certainly looks stiff enough
that it would work as a nice IPod stand, assuming the poor
little jack in the IPod is up to the task. But $35 for a 5
foot cable of this sort? Puhlease!

I bought at a local electronics store 4-foot Philmore cables
that do the same thing. They too sport

* 99.999% Oxygen Free Copper conductors
(it's almost impossible to buy signal wire that's
worse than this these days)
* Co-axial design for enhanced signal transfer
(Yup, coax in these too)
* Electrical shielding for superior interference immunity
(yup, shielded, amaxing what that coax can do)
* 24K gold plated Stereo Jack connectors
(couldn't find any in the ENTIRE store that weren't)
* Precision engineered plug with integrated grip
(got 'em)

Big difference being is that I paid less $35 for 5 of them.



Yep. Buy the best made cheap ones you can find. There is no sonic difference
between any of them.

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Default RCA to TRS cable

On 2010-10-05 21:09, Audio Empire wrote:
If you've found two, why would you need other suggestions? Buy the cheapest
you can find that looks well made. Otherwise there is no difference.


I was thinking someone might know of a cable which is better and/or
cheaper. Do you have any concrete suggestions? What would you buy?


/August

--
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra

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On 2010-10-05 21:11, Audio Empire wrote:
Yep. Buy the best made cheap ones you can find. There is no sonic difference
between any of them.


Have you double blind-tested interconnects as well (as speaker wire)?


/August

--
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra



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On 2010-10-05 18:13, Dick Pierce wrote:
I bought at a local electronics store 4-foot Philmore cables
that do the same thing. They too sport


Do you have a URL to the product you're talking about?


/August

--
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra

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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:41:40 -0700, August Karlstrom wrote
(in article ):

On 2010-10-05 21:11, Audio Empire wrote:
Yep. Buy the best made cheap ones you can find. There is no sonic difference
between any of them.


Have you double blind-tested interconnects as well (as speaker wire)?


/August



Yes. Many have. None have found any difference. And the measurements predict
that outcome. As I have said many times, wire at audio frequencies is pretty
simple stuff, and the measurements and calculations for all of the possible
interactions of resistance, capacitance, and inductance on any of them are so
negligable in the typical lengths used for domestic stereo systems that it is
simply impossible for them to have ANY DETECTABLE sonic or electrical effect
on the signal passing through them at all.

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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:27:28 -0700, August Karlstrom wrote
(in article ):

On 2010-10-05 21:09, Audio Empire wrote:
If you've found two, why would you need other suggestions? Buy the cheapest
you can find that looks well made. Otherwise there is no difference.


I was thinking someone might know of a cable which is better and/or
cheaper. Do you have any concrete suggestions? What would you buy?


The cheapest cable I could buy. Those Chinese-made Philmore cables mentioned
by someone else are as good as any. Don't get suckered-in by the
"Cable-Sound" crowd. The only way that a cable could make even the slightest
difference would be if its manufacturer PURPOSELY designed it to be a filter
instead of merely a conductor.

One caveat, though. If you are going to use this cable on a portable device
like an iPod-type unit, buy the thinest and most flexible cable you can find.
You certainly don't want a cable that weighs as much or more than the unit
itself. You won't be able to set it on a table or shelf where you want it and
have it stay there if the cable is too heavy or too stiff, or both.

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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010 12:56:45 -0700, Dick Pierce wrote
(in article ):

August Karlstrom wrote:
On 2010-10-05 21:09, Audio Empire wrote:

If you've found two, why would you need other suggestions? Buy the cheapest
you can find that looks well made. Otherwise there is no difference.


I was thinking someone might know of a cable which is better and/or
cheaper. Do you have any concrete suggestions? What would you buy?


It's VERY doubtful that any of the expensive cables are
better than the ceaper ones in any objective, technical
way as far as the propogation of an audio signal between
two audio devices is concerned.

There may be other criteria you have not revealed here,
such as apperance, color, or other attributes that have
no bearing on the signal quality that may make you choose
one over the other.

But, as far as connecting two audio devices together,
there's nothing at all to suggest that the more expensive
ones are any better at that job.

Therefore, if all things electrical are the same, in my
book, by definition, cheaper is better.



Absolutely. Cheaper is probably thinner, lighter, and more flexible to boot.

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"August Karlstrom" wrote in message


I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have
found these two:


IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...ry=1&SubCat=24


QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm


Any other suggestions?


Visit your nearest Radio Shack or other electronics store.

This cable is probably going to be driven by the headphone jack on some
portable piece, so the source impedance will be low and available singal
will be relatively high. Just about anything that conducts electricity
fairly marginally, and has minimal insulation between the conductors will
work excellently. I favor 3.5 mm plugs with the cable coming out at a
right angle to minimize stress on the jack in the piece of equipment.

Both of the alternatives listed above thus fail my standards for practical
use.

http://www.markertek.com/Cables-Conn.../YRA-167.xhtml




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Default RCA to TRS cable

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"August Karlstrom" wrote in message


I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have
found these two:


IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...ry=1&SubCat=24


QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm


http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


Monoprice sells good cheap stuff. I would imagine OEM for a lot of "name"
brands. I took apart a Radio Shack RCA cable last week and it was really
cruddy wire inside. My .02.

mg
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On 2010-10-07 01:09, MG wrote:
Monoprice sells good cheap stuff. I would imagine OEM for a lot of "name"
brands. I took apart a Radio Shack RCA cable last week and it was really
cruddy wire inside. My .02.


Thanks for the tip (although I'm looking for a male to male cable).


/August

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On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:09:23 -0700, MG wrote
(in article ):

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"August Karlstrom" wrote in message


I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have
found these two:


IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...ategory=1&SubC
at=24


QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm



http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...18&cs_id=10218

04&p_id=5611&seq=1&format=2


Monoprice sells good cheap stuff. I would imagine OEM for a lot of "name"
brands. I took apart a Radio Shack RCA cable last week and it was really
cruddy wire inside. My .02.

mg


Do you mean the wire wasn't copper, or just that the wire was thin with tiny
strands? Most of these mini-stereo TRS to RCA cables are purposely made
light, with thin-gauge wire because the portable devices that they connect to
are usually light in weight themselves. I've seen these mini-TRS to RCA
cables from "high-end" sellers like Audioquest which are very robust, stiff,
heavy, and expensive. When you connect them to something like an iPod they
have two characteristics: The players won't stay on the table or shelf where
you set them, and they put undo strain on the jack in the portable player,
making it loose and unreliable over time. Usually, these jacks cannot be
replaced (without replacing the entire guts of the phone or player) and
you're left with an expensive device that's suddenly useless.

The cheap, light ones sound exactly like the heavy, expensive ones and are
more practical. Don't misjudge the cheap Radio Shack cable because the wire
is thin. Remember, it's carrying neither much voltage nor much current and
for it's length, is, in fact, totally sufficient to its task.

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On 10/7/2010 2:09 PM, Audio Empire wrote:

The cheap, light ones sound exactly like the heavy, expensive ones and are
more practical.


^^^^^^ Money quote ^^^^^

As someone who worked in pro audio and broadcasting, I tend to favor
heavy-duty physically strong cabling to stand up to the abuse of a
hostile environment. However, connecting a cable made to withstand an
attack by a rabid wombat on PCP (or a musician or DJ, who do more or
less the same thing to the cables) to an iPod is overkill. Lightweight,
easily replacable cables are the way to go for this application.

BTW, while the wire in the RadioShack cable may be thin, it's probably
far thicker than the traces on the PC board inside the device.
Electrically, it doesn't make any difference, physically the cheap RS
cables strong enough for the application.

//Walt

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On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:59:15 -0700, Walt wrote
(in article ):

On 10/7/2010 2:09 PM, Audio Empire wrote:

The cheap, light ones sound exactly like the heavy, expensive ones and are
more practical.


^^^^^^ Money quote ^^^^^

As someone who worked in pro audio and broadcasting, I tend to favor
heavy-duty physically strong cabling to stand up to the abuse of a
hostile environment. However, connecting a cable made to withstand an
attack by a rabid wombat on PCP (or a musician or DJ, who do more or
less the same thing to the cables) to an iPod is overkill. Lightweight,
easily replacable cables are the way to go for this application.

BTW, while the wire in the RadioShack cable may be thin, it's probably
far thicker than the traces on the PC board inside the device.
Electrically, it doesn't make any difference, physically the cheap RS
cables strong enough for the application.

//Walt


Very well put. and quite true. The traces on many of these portable devices
are incredibly tiny and many of the SOIC packages for the integrated circuit
chips are often so small that they look impossibly tiny. These things are
marvels of miniaturization.



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On 2010-10-07 20:59, Walt wrote:
BTW, while the wire in the RadioShack cable may be thin, it's probably
far thicker than the traces on the PC board inside the device.
Electrically, it doesn't make any difference, physically the cheap RS
cables strong enough for the application.


As far as I know a typical radio shack cable is not shielded and is
therefore susceptible to noise from other devices and cables.

By the way, I will connect the cable to line in (TRS) on my Olympus
LS-10 PCM recorder on one end and to line out (RCA) of my amplifier on
the other to record some vinyl (my Creek Destiny amplifier has an
internal phono amplifier).


/August

--
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague. --Edsger Dijkstra
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On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 16:37:46 -0700, August Karlstrom wrote
(in article ):

On 2010-10-07 20:59, Walt wrote:
BTW, while the wire in the RadioShack cable may be thin, it's probably
far thicker than the traces on the PC board inside the device.
Electrically, it doesn't make any difference, physically the cheap RS
cables strong enough for the application.


As far as I know a typical radio shack cable is not shielded and is
therefore susceptible to noise from other devices and cables.


I suspect that it IS shielded, but even if it's not, it won't make a lot of
difference as the headphone output on a typical iPod-like device is extremely
low impedance and wouldn't necessarily need shielding any more than speaker
cable needs to be shielded and for pretty much the same reason.

By the way, I will connect the cable to line in (TRS) on my Olympus
LS-10 PCM recorder on one end and to line out (RCA) of my amplifier on
the other to record some vinyl (my Creek Destiny amplifier has an
internal phono amplifier).


Oooh, not using it with an iPod-like device I see. I still doubt if it will
be a problem if not shielded, but I still suspect that it is.
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"Audio Empire" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:09:23 -0700, MG wrote
(in article ):

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"August Karlstrom" wrote in message


I need a screened stereo RCA to 3.5 mm TRS cable. I have
found these two:

IXOS XHA205
http://www.ixos.co.uk/us/ixos-produc...ategory=1&SubC
at=24

QED Performance Audio J2P
http://www.qed.co.uk/98/gb/product/p.../audio_j2p.htm



http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...18&cs_id=10218

04&p_id=5611&seq=1&format=2


Monoprice sells good cheap stuff. I would imagine OEM for a lot of
"name"
brands. I took apart a Radio Shack RCA cable last week and it was really
cruddy wire inside. My .02.

mg


Do you mean the wire wasn't copper, or just that the wire was thin with
tiny
strands? Most of these mini-stereo TRS to RCA cables are purposely made
light, with thin-gauge wire because the portable devices that they connect
to
are usually light in weight themselves. I've seen these mini-TRS to RCA
cables from "high-end" sellers like Audioquest which are very robust,
stiff,
heavy, and expensive. When you connect them to something like an iPod they
have two characteristics: The players won't stay on the table or shelf
where
you set them, and they put undo strain on the jack in the portable player,
making it loose and unreliable over time. Usually, these jacks cannot be
replaced (without replacing the entire guts of the phone or player) and
you're left with an expensive device that's suddenly useless.

The cheap, light ones sound exactly like the heavy, expensive ones and are
more practical. Don't misjudge the cheap Radio Shack cable because the
wire
is thin. Remember, it's carrying neither much voltage nor much current and
for it's length, is, in fact, totally sufficient to its task.


I was building something else out of them and the strands were really thin
and flimsy. I imagine that if I left them intact, they would be ok. But
they cost a lot more than the Monoprice versions, if I have time for
ordering and shipping.
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On 10/7/2010 7:37 PM, August Karlstrom wrote:
On 2010-10-07 20:59, Walt wrote:
BTW, while the wire in the RadioShack cable may be thin, it's probably
far thicker than the traces on the PC board inside the device.
Electrically, it doesn't make any difference, physically the cheap RS
cables strong enough for the application.


As far as I know a typical radio shack cable is not shielded and is
therefore susceptible to noise from other devices and cables.


I've seen and used thousands of cheap consumer cables from Radio Shack
and other sources and have never seen an unshielded line level cable. I
picked one up from Best Buy over the weekend (out of town for an
in-law's wedding, they wanted to hook up their computer to the PA, so I
hopped in the car and fetched the cable from the nearest source). The
cable was $5 and most definitely shielded.

And as Audio Empire notes, even if it isn't shielded it probably won't
matter. Think of shielding like waterproofing - you don't need to
waterproof your gear for use in your living room, likewise you don't
need shielding for short runs in a low RF environment.


By the way, I will connect the cable to line in (TRS) on my Olympus
LS-10 PCM recorder on one end and to line out (RCA) of my amplifier on
the other to record some vinyl (my Creek Destiny amplifier has an
internal phono amplifier).



I would use the $5 Best Buy cable without hesitation.

//Walt

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On 2010-10-12 21:58, Walt wrote:
I've seen and used thousands of cheap consumer cables from Radio Shack
and other sources and have never seen an unshielded line level cable.


OK, I thought the thicker interconnects where the shielded ones.

And as Audio Empire notes, even if it isn't shielded it probably won't
matter. Think of shielding like waterproofing - you don't need to
waterproof your gear for use in your living room, likewise you don't
need shielding for short runs in a low RF environment.


By the way, do you know if the "pollution" from wireless networks may be
an issue in this context?

It's interesting to note that there seems to be a consensus in this
newsgroup about the (lack of) influence of cables. In the high-end
community as a whole I guess there are more diverse opinions about the
issue.


/August


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On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 16:45:38 -0700, August Karlstrom wrote
(in article ):

On 2010-10-12 21:58, Walt wrote:
I've seen and used thousands of cheap consumer cables from Radio Shack
and other sources and have never seen an unshielded line level cable.


OK, I thought the thicker interconnects where the shielded ones.

And as Audio Empire notes, even if it isn't shielded it probably won't
matter. Think of shielding like waterproofing - you don't need to
waterproof your gear for use in your living room, likewise you don't
need shielding for short runs in a low RF environment.


By the way, do you know if the "pollution" from wireless networks may be
an issue in this context?


Probably not. susceptibility to RF is dependent on many factors. The
impedance of the source component (most portable devices outputs are designed
to drive headphones, which are usually 50 Ohms (there are exceptions, of
course) so the outputs are generally very low source impedance), another
factor is the gain required of the stage you are driving. For instance, a
moving-coil phono preamp input would be more susceptible to RF interference
simply because it has a lot of gain while the input from a portable device
would be line-level which doesn't require much gain at all. Then there is
bandwidth. Very wide bandwidth preamps and power amps might be more
susceptible to RF interference than amplifying devices with more restricted
bandwidth. Next down the list are dirty connections. Poor or dirty jacks and
plugs can form "diode" barriers where they mate. These "diodes" can often act
as radio "detectors" (like an old Galena crystal and cat's whisker detector
in a crystal set) and can actually demodulate the RF into sound (a strong
nearby radio station, for instance, might appear in one's speakers as fully
understandable speech or music). The best way to avoid that is to use contact
cleaners and enhancers to keep the mating surfaces clean. Usually it's a
combination of things that tend to add-up to an audio circuit that's prone to
RF interference. For instance a dirty or otherwise poor cartridge clip in a
tone arm head shell, feeding a wide bandwidth moving-coil head amp through
poorly shielded or badly grounded interconnect could be highly prone to noise
and distortion from local RF sources such as blue-tooth devices, strong local
radio stations and ham radio rigs, or computer hash caused by the radiation
of various clock signals, etc.

It's interesting to note that there seems to be a consensus in this
newsgroup about the (lack of) influence of cables. In the high-end
community as a whole I guess there are more diverse opinions about the
issue.


Shielding to avoid RF interference and hum is not the same issue as
"Interconnect or cable sound". Whether a cable is properly designed to
minimize interference or not has nothing at all to do with whether that cable
"improves" the sonic performance of one's stereo. Any properly made and
installed shielded cable should stop interference, but both a $5 shielded
Radio Shack interconnect and a $4000 pair of Nordost Valhallas will do that
quite nicely. They will also sound the same between any two components you
wish to connect together as well.
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In article ,
August Karlstrom wrote:

It's interesting to note that there seems to be a consensus in this
newsgroup about the (lack of) influence of cables. In the high-end
community as a whole I guess there are more diverse opinions about the
issue.


I'm not sure of the consensus. But coming out and saying that cables
make a difference will likely cause an avalanche of scientific and DBT
oriented posts that will put off all but the most tough-skinned.

Even if cables do make a difference, it would be, in most cases a minor
difference. Whether that minor difference is important to you is a
matter for you and your wallet to decide.

For me, this hobby is about getting the most pleasure from my music
collection, and if LP's, or CD's, or amps, or cables, or particular
types of speakers make that happen for me then I'm not interested in a
argument about my choices.

Greg

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"August Karlstrom" wrote in message


By the way, do you know if the "pollution" from wireless
networks may be an issue in this context?


I've experimented with power line wireless networks and also wireless
networks using high powered transmitters (up to 1 watt) and high gain
antennas (well over 20 dB gain) in the same room as one of my audio systems.
I think that's a theoretical ERP of about 100 watts. Standard is 10-30
milliwatts. No problems.

It's interesting to note that there seems to be a
consensus in this newsgroup about the (lack of) influence
of cables. In the high-end community as a whole I guess
there are more diverse opinions about the issue.


IMO Dick Pierce understated the problem with ignorant high enders saying all
sorts of weird things. You can often tell a knowlegable high ender simply
from common-sense comments about cables. Unfortunately a lot of ignoreant
high enders write for people who buy ink by the barrel.


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On 10/12/2010 7:45 PM, August Karlstrom wrote:
On 2010-10-12 21:58, Walt wrote:


And as Audio Empire notes, even if it isn't shielded it probably won't
matter. Think of shielding like waterproofing - you don't need to
waterproof your gear for use in your living room, likewise you don't
need shielding for short runs in a low RF environment.


By the way, do you know if the "pollution" from wireless networks may be
an issue in this context?


As others have noted, the answer is very likely "no". WIFI is fairly
low power so it's propensity to cause interference is correspondingly low.

As an aside, I should note that while shielding probably won't make a
difference in your situation, for phono interconnects it might. Your
line level device is going to put out a signal on the order of 1 volt
while a phono signal is typically around 1 microvolt, or about 3 orders
of magnitude lower. Thus it takes 1000 times less interference to be
audible in a phono signal vs a line level signal. Of course, this
doesn't mean that you should spend big $$$$ on a phono cable.


It's interesting to note that there seems to be a consensus in this
newsgroup about the (lack of) influence of cables. In the high-end
community as a whole I guess there are more diverse opinions about the
issue.


Many of the posters here are professional audio engineers with a sound
education in physics. It's a different mindset than the "magical
thinking" one often finds in the audiophile press, and probably
responsible for the difference.

//Walt

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