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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
I came across this today...
http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas
wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d |
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#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas
wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d |
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
You are wasting your time spending hundreds of dollars on cable. Any decent
cables are going to be indistinguishable from hundred dollar cables in a blind ab test. The wire simply does not make a difference when you are dealling with the audio frequency range. "Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" wrote ...
Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And those would be people with a great deal more money than common sense. And/or those with fantasy-land notions of what they can hear. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I feel no reservation in declaring that they are, in fact, NOT value for the money. At 10K per meter, you could use solid bars of gold. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. Consider the common-sense fact that such botique, snake-oil cables are never used in the *production* side of making those recordings. Does it make sense that after going through dozens of steps in tracking, mixing, mastering, pressing, etc. using very ordinary cables, any actual improvement can be made with a metre or two of magic cable at the playback end of the chain? Do you think that the people who care very much about sound and do it for a living wouldn't use these magic cables if they really made any significant difference? But then 12% of people in my country also believe that Elvis Presley is still alive and flipping burgers in the midwest somewhere. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. I don't even believe that "a few hundred dollars" is a reasonable price for completely flawless reproduction of music in a home playback system. The only "magic" in cables is the enormous profit margin of those willing to take advantage of the gullible. |
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of. Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50 cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you, and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on. Gareth. |
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote:
I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Don't apologise. Don is just having a moment, probably down to f*&%ing Xmas. You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables. You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or UKP10,000 cables. geoff |
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#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff"
wrote: Mal Thomas wrote: I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Don't apologise. Don is just having a moment, probably down to f*&%ing Xmas. You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables. You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or UKP10,000 cables. Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy. And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy. Naa - wwith some the sheaths get brittle and fracture. And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas. It's all humbug ( or worse). geoff |
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#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:18:05 +1300, "geoff"
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:13:10 +1300, "geoff" Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy. Naa - wwith some the sheaths get brittle and fracture. Don't sound any different though. And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas. It's all humbug ( or worse). Problem is it starts just after easter in the shops. And easter will start just after christmas. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article , "Gareth Magennis" wrote: "Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of. .. Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days) with something with better construction, better conductors and connections, should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50 cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you, and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for 'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to order in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing cables in his showroom. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article , "Gareth Magennis" wrote: "Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of. . Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days) with something with better construction, better conductors and connections, should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50 cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you, and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for 'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to order in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing cables in his showroom. No you do not want an AB test in his showroom. You want a Double Blind AB test. That means that you test between A and B and nobody knows which cable A and B are until after the test. Particularly the dealer. Google Double Blind Test and do your tests properly. Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even managed to prove it to yourself. Bye. Gareth. |
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#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" wrote ...
my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. You didn't mention the size (wire guage) of this "el-cheapo" cable. It was almost certainly the wire guage and not the price of the cable that made any difference. Cable is not magic. Frequently, just the mechanical process of replacing cables will break through oxidation (etc) and make the cable "sound better" regardless of what the replacement cable is. You can experiment for yourself by just swaping some cables around (or have a friend do it to give yourself a bit of a "blind test") Cable is not magic. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. You would have heard the same difference from cheap "lamp cord" *of the same wire guage*. Cable is not magic. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! Tighter bass is an expected result of using the proper gauge wire between amplifier and speaker (rated conservatively for the power rating, impedance, and length) Cable is not magic. You must have had extraordinarily lousy cable to hear such an improvement in the top end. All the talk of "skin effect" and other such claims are rubbish at audio frequecies in any reasonable size ordinary cable. I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. Never reveal to her that you could have got the same effect from decent-size lamp-cord. So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days) with something with better construction, "better construction" is pure bunkum. Cable is not magic. better conductors "better conductors" means adequate wire guage (for speaker cable) or it may mean proper shielding and low capacitance (for line-level) These are not expensive. Cable is not magic. and connections, "better connections" may mean something nominally decent vs. some ultra-cheap junk from a bargain-basement 4th-rate, factory in the 3rd world. Decent connectors are not expensive. Cable (and connectors) are not magic. should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. It wouldn't take a "few hundred dollars" to replace the cables in Bill Gate's mansion with perfectly good regular cable. Try to resist getting sucked into the "magic cable" delusion. Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for 'leadership' here. Friends don't let friends waste their money on magic cable. |
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#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... "Mal Thomas" wrote ... my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. You didn't mention the size (wire guage) of this "el-cheapo" cable. It was almost certainly the wire guage and not the price of the cable that made any difference. Cable is not magic. Frequently, just the mechanical process of replacing cables will break through oxidation (etc) and make the cable "sound better" regardless of what the replacement cable is. You can experiment for yourself by just swaping some cables around (or have a friend do it to give yourself a bit of a "blind test") Cable is not magic. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. You would have heard the same difference from cheap "lamp cord" *of the same wire guage*. Cable is not magic. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! Tighter bass is an expected result of using the proper gauge wire between amplifier and speaker (rated conservatively for the power rating, impedance, and length) Cable is not magic. You must have had extraordinarily lousy cable to hear such an improvement in the top end. All the talk of "skin effect" and other such claims are rubbish at audio frequecies in any reasonable size ordinary cable. I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. Never reveal to her that you could have got the same effect from decent-size lamp-cord. So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days) with something with better construction, "better construction" is pure bunkum. Cable is not magic. better conductors "better conductors" means adequate wire guage (for speaker cable) or it may mean proper shielding and low capacitance (for line-level) These are not expensive. Cable is not magic. and connections, "better connections" may mean something nominally decent vs. some ultra-cheap junk from a bargain-basement 4th-rate, factory in the 3rd world. Decent connectors are not expensive. Cable (and connectors) are not magic. should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. It wouldn't take a "few hundred dollars" to replace the cables in Bill Gate's mansion with perfectly good regular cable. Try to resist getting sucked into the "magic cable" delusion. Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for 'leadership' here. Friends don't let friends waste their money on magic cable. I think Don's orignal "'TROLL ALERT'" warning has finally sunk in ................... Gareth. |
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#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" wrote in message
Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. The issue of the possible benefits of speaker cables has been around for a long time. Conventional engineering wisdom says that for almost all speaker cable applications, all that matters is the length and gauge of the cables, considering the actual impedance of the speakers. For example, a speaker whose minimum impedance is 4 ohms should be connected with a cable that is 3 wire gauges numerically smaller (e.g. 11 gauge instead of 14 gauge) as compared to a speaker whose minimum impedance is 8 ohms. If you double the length of a set of speaker cables, a similar choice of cables with a numerically smaller wire gauge is indicated. A detailed method for calculating the wire gauge of speaker cables is presented at: http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm The "no-brainer" method for choosing speaker cables is to just get 12 gauge speaker cables. Unless something is unusual with your setup, they will do the job. My baseline for comparing speaker cables is the 12 gauge, 2 conductor finely stranded wire sold by the local home improvement store, either Lowes or Home Depot. It sells for less than $0.50 per foot in typical quantities, cut off of their spool. If you want some durable cable designed for rough-and-tumble use, try some SV-SJ or SJO rubber jacketed wire. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. So, the question is not whether or not this very pricey speaker cable is better than some randomly-selected "speaker cable" that might be as small as 18 or 24 gauge, but whether or not it is any better than commodity copper cable selected by the means suggested above. |
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#19
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
In article ,
Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz They had to top the $500 Denon digital audio Ethernet cable. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-De...B000I1X6PM/ref =sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229053162&sr=1-11 The reviews are gold. -- Google is a pro-spamming service. I will not see your reply if you use Google. |
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#20
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AW: World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. I do not think, everybody of them are so stupid to say it is better than the other one if it was not so. It would be enough if only one of them would say: Bull****, and Nordost would never be able to sell a piece of it. There are several expensive producing technologies which pushing the end price up. An example: I myself am soldering supraconductors with low temperature soldering technic into my mastering computer. The difference is there of course, I would not do it if not. You can look around for another computer with 220 dB dynamic range, just try it and let me know what you've found. Do not ask the price it is horrible but the sound is worth if I can help many producers to make beautiful recordings. The first of them, was so happy, that he has given a university lecture serie in Zürich, Hong Kong and Singapur about my sound. http://scmapp.nus.edu.sg/events/details.asp?e_id=680 The "skepticals" in cable and other highprice cases have no money to try it out and no application to need to use it. Regards Johann Spischak |
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#21
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Dec 12, 1:26*am, "Johann Spischak" wrote:
"Mal Thomas" schrieb im ... I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? * Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. I do not think, everybody of them are so stupid to say it is better than the other one if it was not so. It would be enough if only one of them would say: Bull****, and Nordost would never be able to sell a piece of it. There are several expensive producing technologies which pushing the end price up. An example: I myself am soldering supraconductors with low temperature soldering technic into my mastering computer. The difference is there of course, I would not do it if not. You can look around for another computer with 220 dB dynamic range, just try it and let me know what you've found. Do not ask the price it is horrible but the sound is worth if I can help many producers to make beautiful recordings. The first of them, was so happy, that he has given a university lecture serie in Zürich, Hong Kong and Singapur about my sound. http://scmapp.nus.edu.sg/events/details.asp?e_id=680 The "skepticals" in cable and other highprice cases have no money to try it out and no application to need to use it. Regards Johann Spischak- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You're full of crap. |
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#22
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
wrote ...
You're full of crap. But at least he has raised the bar for trolling to a new professional and even an academic level. Our regular trolls could learn a few things. This will give Brian McCarty a new model to aspire to. His recent rubbish is so predictable and boring. |
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#23
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. Absolutely not. Wire is wire. Graham |
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#24
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. They won't. Buy stuff like this on ebay (link below) instead. It's a total myth that 'interconnects' affect the sound. But the hi-fi mags have to get advertisers from somewhere so they perpetuate the myth. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-PURE-OFC-Tw...QQcmdZViewItem 1 metre phono/RCA connectors with gold plated contacts and the famed 'oxygen feee cable'. Total cost £3.38 ! Graham |
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#25
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. Speaker cables are COMPLETELY different to 'interconnects'. That's because their resistance, capacitance and inductance CAN affect the *frequency response* of the speaker. Why ? Because their values are not insignificant related to those of the speaker. But nothing else. No magic. This situation DOES NOT apply to interconnects unless maybe in extreme cases such as daft high output impedance valve / tube equipment where a long cable's capacitance MIGHT roll off a bit of treble. Not a problem with solid-state kit or even decently designed valve kit. I advise the use of 4mm2 speaker cable from the cheapest supplier. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PREMIUM-HUGE-4...QQcmdZViewItem You can probably get it cheaper too ! Graham |
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#26
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. Why ? Because I'll bet any money these $15 a metre cables used a larger diameter wire than what you had before and therefore had less electrical resistance. Not an issue for interconnects. Graham |
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#27
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AW: World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Johann Spischak wrote: "Mal Thomas" schrieb Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. They should be shot. Graham |
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#28
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Eeyore" wrote...
Mal Thomas wrote: I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. They won't. Buy stuff like this on ebay (link below) instead. It's a total myth that 'interconnects' affect the sound. But the hi-fi mags have to get advertisers from somewhere so they perpetuate the myth. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-PURE-OFC-Tw...QQcmdZViewItem 1 metre phono/RCA connectors with gold plated contacts and the famed 'oxygen feee cable'. Total cost £3.38 ! WOW! It's even "digital"! :-) I would wager that there is no magic cable at any inflated price that can be shown in an actual double-blind test to "sound better" than this kind of commodity product. |
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#29
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Don Pearce wrote: "geoff" wrote: You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables. You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or UKP10,000 cables. Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy. And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas. Just wait for next year ! Good news is that anthropogenic global warming will be conclusively disproven in 2-3 yrs. Maybe even sooner ! So taxes can reduce. Graham |
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#30
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Eeyore wrote:
Mal Thomas wrote: Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. Absolutely not. Wire is wire. Barbed wire from the Soviet gulag is best. That's what I use. |
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#31
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Eeyore" wrote ...
Don Pearce wrote: "geoff" wrote: You can save yourself a further hundred or more by simply going to Dick Smith and spending ~$30 on their regular upper-end cables. You will not hear any difference whatsoever between these, $200, or UKP10,000 cables. Or the ones that come free with every bit of kit you buy. And yes, I've already had a bellyful of f*&%ing Xmas. Just wait for next year ! Good news is that anthropogenic global warming will be conclusively disproven in 2-3 yrs. Maybe even sooner ! So taxes can reduce. If the Chicken Little crowd (Algore, et.al.) manage to run whats left of the global economy into the dust before then, it will be too late. They have started a new TV advert campaign here in the US about "creating jobs" making old buildings more "energy efficient" or some- such nonesense. They are apparently hoping nobody will ask who is paying for these newly created jobs. |
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#32
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
wrote ...
Eeyore wrote: Mal Thomas wrote: Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. Absolutely not. Wire is wire. Barbed wire from the Soviet gulag is best. That's what I use. You can probably get a premium for it if you have the proper provenance documentation to prove that it is from Siberia. (Or maybe just DNA results on the blood stains.) |
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#33
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
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#34
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: Yes the old conductors did look oxidised - black And copper oxide is a rectifier, i.e. it will 'damage' the signal. That's why proper connectors should be used, not bare wire into terminals. Graham |
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#35
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: The new stuff that I got has a thick solid conductor about a millimetre in diameter and is very stiff. That's puny. You've been HAD ! DO NOT do the same again with interconnects. 4mm2 cable as used by pros is over 2mm in diameter and the stuff I use is very flexible. Graham |
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#36
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On 12/12/08 8:30 AM, in article , "Gareth Magennis" wrote: "Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 12/12/08 5:05 AM, in article , "Gareth Magennis" wrote: "Mal Thomas" wrote in message ... On 11/12/08 10:58 PM, in article 49431c59.85744578@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:03 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: On 11/12/08 10:46 PM, in article 494219bf.85078015@localhost, "Don Pearce " wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:43:52 GMT, Mal Thomas wrote: I came across this today... http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordos...terconnect.htm Are these the most expensive available ?? Over GBP10,000 for a 1.0m interconnect, down here in the colonies one can buy a reasonable car for this amount. I quite appreciate, from personal experience, that a decent set of cables can make a difference, even on my aging system, but is there really any tangible value of something like this ? Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. Cheers Mal Oz TROLL ALERT! d Sorry, no troll - not selling anything, don't own a shop or business, got absolutely nothing to do with Nordost or the shop in the UK...was simply curious to find out if any cable, regardless of it's brand was worth this kind of money. No, that would be a shill. A troll is someone who drops a known argument-starter into the pot. d Please accept my apologies, honestly. Didn't think it would start an argument and was definitely not my intent. There are people I am sure who can afford and can probably justify them. And I am not suggesting that they are not value for money at all, but was just curious to hear opinions from others who may be able to afford such kit. I am in no position at all to place any counter arguments to anyone; I simply don't have the experience nor expertise. As I said my only motivation was shear curiosity. I'm having problems justifying a few hundred dollars at the moment for a set of cables which I am reasonably certain will make a big difference on my system compared to the el cheapos I have had for years. I was just amazed to see these. Cheers Mal Oz If you are reasonably certain it will make a big difference then it probably will. The "Placebo Effect" in medicine is very well known and very well studied, and, it works. That's what humans are capable of. . Gareth, my assumption here was based on my experience when upgrading my speaker cables some months back. I had been using a set of el cheapo, twisted copper with clear insulation and I thought at the time they sounded ok. That is I had not detected any problems with what I was hearing. Anyway, I was in my local hi-fi retailer buying a new CD player and I saw all these 'special' speaker cables on rolls; prices started at around A$15 a metre to over A$100. I asked him, as I hadn't got a clue, whether these really made a difference. Well he made a strange offer. He said to me "look mate, buy some of the $15 a metre stuff and if you don't hear a difference then come back and I'll refund your money". So apart from risking a return trip to the hi-fi shop (always a risk!) I couldn't lose. So I did just that, bought 6 metres of the stuff and hooked them up. Well the difference on my kit was astounding. Bass was tighter, with more kick and the top end, wow! I remember my wife was in the bathroom doing something and she even came running into the lounge and asked what the f*** have you done. Needless to say the cables are still on my speakers. So, I am reasonably convinced that replacing my bargain basement interconnects (they are basically what comes free with most kit these days) with something with better construction, better conductors and connections, should make some improvements. BTW the 'few hundred dollars' is to replace all my interconnects not the individual price of the cables. Before you commit to spending hundreds of dollars on interconnects, how about having a bit of fun first, and getting people you know together with a hi-fi and doing a proper double blind AB test with the cheapest possible 50 cent interconnects and the best interconnects you can muster between you, and see who can tell the difference. Put some money in, the winner gets the pot. Then decide what you want to spend your money on Ha ! My mates are also in the same boat - they are looking to me for 'leadership' here. So don't really have the opportunity to have a play around. But having said that I think I just found a dealer willing to order in what I want from Japan and let me have a A/B test with my existing cables in his showroom. No you do not want an AB test in his showroom. You want a Double Blind AB test. That means that you test between A and B and nobody knows which cable A and B are until after the test. Particularly the dealer. Google Double Blind Test and do your tests properly. Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even managed to prove it to yourself. Bye. Gareth. Gareth, Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in your kill-file. BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at. But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of money. I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid. Cheers Mal Oz |
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#37
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AW: World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:24:40 +0000, Eeyore
wrote: Johann Spischak wrote: "Mal Thomas" schrieb Is the technology in these cables, for instance, really worth the money they are asking ? Nordost obviously think so. As it looks not only Nordost think so, but several magazines, who voted this cable as product of the year. They should be shot. His English is better than mine or yours. Starve a troll. Much thanks, as always, Chris Hornbeck |
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#38
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World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Mal Thomas wrote: "Gareth Magennis" wrote: Actually I think I'm wasting my time here, you have already decided that spending more money on cables is going to sound better. You have even managed to prove it to yourself. Gareth, Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in your kill-file. BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at. But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of money. I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid. Do not forget that SPEAKER cables can and do have 'an effect'. No-one can say whether one is 'better' or worse' than another other than the general advice is to get the beefiest cable you can (largest cross-sectional area or gauge) from the cheapest supplier you can find, to keep the resistance low. This will best allow your speakers to sound as they were intended. 'Interconnects' are a completely different kettle of fish for technical reasons that you'd have to study to understand. Aside from looking posh, a $1000 cable will be no better than a $5 cable. Even a well made 50c cable is most likely indistinguishable as long as they didn't skimp on the screen / shield. Here endeth the lesson from someone with 37 years in pro-audio who regularly ran a 60 metre (200 feet) audio multicore. And no we didn't pay a million dollars for it. Graham |
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#39
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AW: World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
"Mal Thomas" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
Gareth, Look if you feel you are wasting your time then simply shut up or put me in your kill-file. BTW I haven't decided to buy anything. Yes, I was considering upgrading my cables to something that I felt was a reasonable price. I even had narrowed it down to a couple of brands that I was looking at. But since reading all this, (rather than salesmen's hype and various reviews, manufacturers websites etc), I will probably end up saving a bit of money. I might be naïve, misinformed (on this subject) but I'm not stupid. Cheers Mal Oz I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music! Happy weekend! Johann Spischak |
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#40
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AW: World's Most Expensive 1.0m interconnect ?
Johann Spischak wrote:
I think I can help you with a very simple tip to make your decision. You don't need to bring home a sample of alternative cable. Just take your own cable into the demo room of that HiFi store. Listen any kind of acoustic record. Listen to the echos and the ringing out timesof any instrument. Which longer rings is your future cable, take that one, ready. Go home and enjoy the music! Hint: Use recordings of undamped instruments for ultimate frustration. |
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