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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

Deary me, what a rant that guy does, but ppl voted for lots of those
ppl he wants deaded. Or if they didn't, they bought stuff made by
companies owned by them.

Anyway, while democracy is the way it is, **** will still happen. I
was appalled the other evening to see a documentary film about the
vast number of gas wells being put into huge rural areas in the US.
The fracking used 496 chemicals which poison water tables from which
ppl get their water. People can't drink the water. Gas comes out the
water taps, plus a frightful toxic stink! People are getting sick,
animals too. The EPA was not allowed to regulate any of it. Now they
want to frack vast areas in Oz to get gas and a **** fight is going on
here too. Just when ppl say how marvellous it'd be to use gas instead
of coal it seems many ppl will be trampled down. Dick Cheney and
Haliburton were mentioned often in the film.

Maybe the US is so near going broke it has to stop paying for oil
imports and go for whatever else it can, and if that means ****ing up
the environment to get gas, then I understand - another unsolvable
dilemna.

Sometimes I get ****ed about the status quo but I'm powerless.

Patrick Turner.
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[email protected] arthrnyork@webtv.net is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

On Jul 2, 8:59*am, Patrick Turner wrote:
Deary me, what a rant that guy does, but ppl voted for lots of those
ppl he wants deaded. Or if they didn't, they bought stuff made by
companies owned by them.

Anyway, while democracy is the way it is, **** will still happen. I
was appalled the other evening to see a documentary film about the
vast number of gas wells being put into huge rural areas in the US.
The fracking used 496 chemicals which poison water tables from which
ppl get their water. People can't drink the water. Gas comes out the
water taps, plus a frightful toxic stink! People are getting sick,
animals too. The EPA was not allowed to regulate any of it. Now they
want to frack vast areas in Oz to get gas and a **** fight is going on
here too. Just when ppl say how marvellous it'd be to use gas instead
of coal it seems many ppl will be trampled down. Dick Cheney and
Haliburton were mentioned often in the film.

Maybe the US is so near going broke it has to stop paying for oil
imports and go for whatever else it can, and if that means ****ing up
the environment to get gas, then I understand - another unsolvable
dilemna.

Sometimes I get ****ed about the status quo but I'm powerless.

Patrick Turner.


They are doing that to extract gas,oil,etc. It was featured on '60
Minutes' about a year or so ago . Truly frr-ightening . Gas in your
drinking water . . .
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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

Below, Flipper completetly refutes everything I said which I have seen
happen in films about fracking. in Oz, there are companies trying to
put in gas wells using fracking and guess what, local people and
farmers et all HATE THESE ****Z !!!!!!!

I KNEW Fipper would be sucked into what I said. I KNEW THIS WOULD
HAPPEN, so its pointless to argue with Flipper. He should have known
that I would have known.

But if Flipper's wife had got sick and couldn't drink the water from
the well, then perhaps it'd be a completely different story.
Maybe Fliiper owns shared in Haliburton ****z Incorporated.

Maybe Flipper thinks Dick ****in Cheney is a saint.

But I see the USA is in Deap ****te right now, arguments about
extending the borrowing limits go on, looming uncertainty, trillions
wasted in the ME, so watch out World!

And if the US has to impose austerity measures then expect all
environmental concerns that cost money to be abandoned.

Good luck America, you'll need it.

Patrick Turner.



rOn Jul 3, 3:31*pm, flipper wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 05:59:28 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner

wrote:
Deary me, what a rant that guy does, but ppl voted for lots of those
ppl he wants deaded. Or if they didn't, they bought stuff made by
companies owned by them.


Anyway, while democracy is the way it is, **** will still happen. I
was appalled the other evening to see a documentary film


No, you saw hysterical propaganda that was 'called' a 'documentary'.

about the
vast number of gas wells being put into huge rural areas in the US.


Actually, the 'propaganda' cropped up when they expanded into more
populated areas.

Fracking has been going on since at least 1948.

The fracking used 496 chemicals


Crap. That is like saying your toothbrush 'uses' 496 kinds of plastic
because over the history of toothbrush manufacturing different types
by different manufacturers have used different plastics.

Out of all the fracking wells drilled over the past 60+ years there
may have been up to 496 'chemicals' used at one time or another but no
individual well uses "496 chemicals," the word itself a bugaboo term
since things like guar gum (the most commonly used 'additive'), an
emulsifier more commonly found in ice cream, are counted as
'chemicals'.

which poison water tables from which
ppl get their water.


Pure crap.

Fracking takes place thousands of feet below any formations that carry
potable water and is separated from them by thousands of feet of
impermeable rock.

People can't drink the water. Gas comes out the
water taps, plus a frightful toxic stink! People are getting sick,
animals too.


More crap. The alleged 'contaminated' examples were thoroughly
investigated by regulatory agencies and shown to NOT come from gas
well drilling but 'natural' sources.

The EPA was not allowed to regulate any of it.


Again, crap. The film asserts "“The energy task force, and $100
million lobbying effort on behalf of the industry, were significant in
the passage of the ‘Halliburton Loophole’ to the Safe Drinking Water
Act, which authorizes oil and gas drillers exclusively to inject known
hazardous materials, unchecked, directly into or adjacent to
underground drinking water supplies. It passed as part of the Bush
administration’s Energy Policy Act of 2005.”

Not a word of it is true.

In the first place, the Clean Water Act never, in it's entire
existence, applied to "fracking" so there was nothing to 'remove' nor
'loophole' to make. And that's because the Clean Water Act regulates
surface waters and surface discharge into surface waters.

Fracking takes place thousands upon thousands of feet underground and
thousands upon thousands of feet below any formations that carry
potable water so, since there is no 'discharge' into water, surface OR
underground, there is nothing to 'regulate' under the Clean Water Act.

Fracking is regulated by the States.

The idea that ANY form of legislation could pass the House, Senate,
and be signed by any Presidential, not to mention get past every State
regulatory agency in the country, which "authorizes oil and gas
drillers exclusively to inject known hazardous materials, unchecked,
directly into or adjacent to underground drinking water supplies" is
so patently absurd as to be enough on it's own to expose the film as
the fear mongering hokum bunkum crap it is.

Now they
want to frack vast areas in Oz to get gas and a **** fight is going on
here too. Just when ppl say how marvellous it'd be to use gas instead
of coal it seems many ppl will be trampled down. Dick Cheney and
Haliburton were mentioned often in the film.


Lots of pure crappola was "mentioned" in the film and the most
generous summary of it would be a classic case of "ignorant idiots
scaring the ignorant." But, considering the near trivial ease it is to
find the information they claim is 'unavailable', I'm not inclined to
be so generous.

Maybe the US is so near going broke it has to stop paying for oil
imports and go for whatever else it can, and if that means ****ing up
the environment to get gas, then I understand - another unsolvable
dilemna.


There is no 'dilemma' because the allegations are crap.



Sometimes I get ****ed about the status quo but I'm powerless.


Patrick Turner.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

On Jul 3, 3:12*pm, wrote:
On Jul 2, 8:59*am, Patrick Turner wrote:





Deary me, what a rant that guy does, but ppl voted for lots of those
ppl he wants deaded. Or if they didn't, they bought stuff made by
companies owned by them.


Anyway, while democracy is the way it is, **** will still happen. I
was appalled the other evening to see a documentary film about the
vast number of gas wells being put into huge rural areas in the US.
The fracking used 496 chemicals which poison water tables from which
ppl get their water. People can't drink the water. Gas comes out the
water taps, plus a frightful toxic stink! People are getting sick,
animals too. The EPA was not allowed to regulate any of it. Now they
want to frack vast areas in Oz to get gas and a **** fight is going on
here too. Just when ppl say how marvellous it'd be to use gas instead
of coal it seems many ppl will be trampled down. Dick Cheney and
Haliburton were mentioned often in the film.


Maybe the US is so near going broke it has to stop paying for oil
imports and go for whatever else it can, and if that means ****ing up
the environment to get gas, then I understand - another unsolvable
dilemna.


Sometimes I get ****ed about the status quo but I'm powerless.


Patrick Turner.


They are doing that to extract gas,oil,etc. It was featured on '60
Minutes' about a year or so ago . Truly frr-ightening . Gas in your
drinking water . . .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The gas industry reckons it can trample down all those sons and
daughters of bitches who live lazy out in the middle of knowhwere.
**** the little man and his missus and their rights; the DOLLAR must
be worshipped even if business has to trade with the devil. The End
justifies the Means. That used to be the justification for command
socialism which was so despised by capitalists, and hated by ordinary
ppl where it happened so that command socialism was abandoned in East
germany and Soviet Empire. But there we are with the Land of The Free
acting just as ****atiously as any of the rabid socialists.

Don't worry, Be happy. I know ppl who said the USA won in Vietnam,
'cos the US killed 3,000,000 gooks and "we only lost 50,000."
But communism prevailed in Vietnam. Not only that, Communism in China
has led its version of Chinese Capitalism to improve the lives of a
billion Chinese so much so that their efforts might eclipse anything
the USA might do. Mind you, I don't see what the Chinese have to crow
about because they look like becoming rather too Nationalistic, and
very dangerous, IMHO, like the Nazis, because the fundementals of
democracy are missing, ie, minorities are given human rights. The USA
must be prepared to fade like Britain after WW2, because about 3
billion Indian&Chinese people are on the rise, and building very large
armies, navies and air forces.

My commiserations,

Always look on the Bright Side of life. Obama should learn to tell
more jokes - to keep 'em smilin'.

Patrick Turner.

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John L Stewart John L Stewart is offline
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Location: Toronto
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Wink

[quote=flipper;934302]On Sun, 3 Jul 2011 00:45:25 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
wrote:

Below, Flipper completetly refutes everything I said


Precisely

which I have seen
happen in films about fracking.


It is a classic propaganda technique to show 'pictures' and lie about
what they are. Hitler did it, Oliver Stone did it in JFK, and these
jerks did it.

Quite amazing how well Flipper is informed. Perhaps he could act as a consultant for the opposing point of view.

Then we can all pay to go & watch!!

Cheers, John
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GRe GRe is offline
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Posts: 67
Default Some rave OT

Once upon a time, two infants on Gaia's shoulders,
Pinko and Wallaby, dancing, chanting & shouting...

Whither do thou go. Whither do thou destine thyself.
Warpness.
I to warpness, thou to warpness, together we'll go...


Have thou a child. How is it styled.
Whitish.
My child whitish, thy child whitish.
I to warpness, thou to warpness, together we'll go...


Have thou a wife. What is her name.
Chameleoni.
My wife chameleoni, thy wife chameleoni,
my child whitish, thy child whitish.
I to warpness, thou to warpness, together we'll go...


Have thou a cradle. How do thou call thy cradle.
Hithertodoodle.
My cradle hithertodoodle, thy cradle hithertodoodle,
my wife chameleoni, thy wife chameleoni,
my child whitish, thy child whitish.
I to warpness, thou to warpness, together we'll go...


Have thou a drudge. What name has thy drudge.
Fromworkdonotbudge.
My drudge fromworkdonotbudge, thy drudge fromworkdonotbudge,
my cradle hithertodoodle, thy cradle hithertodoodle,
my wife chameleoni, thy wife chameleoni,
my child whitish, thy child whitish.
I to warpness, thou to warpness, together we'll go...


... nowhere.


According to Grimm, bon voyage, Gio



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Lord Valve Lord Valve is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

flipper wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:05:45 +0000, John L Stewart
wrote:


flipper;934302 Wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jul 2011 00:45:25 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
wrote:
-
Below, Flipper completetly refutes everything I said-

Precisely
-
which I have seen
happen in films about fracking.-

It is a classic propaganda technique to show 'pictures' and lie about
what they are. Hitler did it, Oliver Stone did it in JFK, and these
jerks did it.

Quite amazing how well Flipper is informed.


Thank you but there's not really any 'amazing secret' to it, just some
simple rules and techniques.

1. Don't blindly take anything at face value.
2. Always look for both, or all, sides of a dispute.
3. Look for verifiable references/sources.
4. Fact check all parties, including given references/sources.
5. Do your own research.
6. Check your own prejudices.

And do so before spouting off.

It does help if one is familiar with common propaganda techniques but
some are covered in the above rules, like making claims with no
sources, or misrepresenting sources, and selective/skewed
presentations of only, or mostly, one side.

And though I could tell, from the techniques used in the alleged
'documentary' itself, that it was a propaganda piece I researched
before posting even if for no other reason than to check my own
'inclination'.

From the EPAs own website.

http://www.epa.gov/regulations/laws/cwa.html

"The Clean Water Act (CWA) establishes the basic structure for
regulating discharges of pollutants into the waters of the United
States and regulating quality standards for surface waters."

"Under the CWA, EPA has implemented pollution control programs such as
setting wastewater standards for industry. We have also set water
quality standards for all contaminants in surface waters."

From the COGCC report on the 'inflammatory' faucet in Colorado

http://cogcc.state.co.us/cogis/Compl..._num=200190138

"Resolution: Dissolved methane in well water appears to be biogenic
in origin. Tests were positive for iron related bacteria and sulfate
reducing bacteria. There are no indications of oil & gas related
impacts to water well."

The, so called, 'documentary' also implies, by misrepresenting the
Clean Water Act, that the EPA 'does nothing' regarding alleged facking
contamination, which is also not true.

Again from the publicly available EPA website a 2004 study of the
issue.

http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/uic/pdfs...onclusions.pdf

From Chapter 7; Conclusions.

"Under SDWA, EPA’s UIC Program is responsible for ensuring that fluids
injected into the ground do not endanger USDWs. The goal of the Phase
I study was to assess the potential for contamination of USDWs due to
the injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into coalbed methane
wells, and to determine, based on these findings, whether further
study is warranted.
.
.
.
Although thousands of coalbed methane wells are fractured annually,
EPA did not find confirmed evidence that drinking water wells have
been contaminated by hydraulic fracturing fluid injection into coalbed
methane wells."

The whole thing is here

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwate...thanestudy.cfm

Fracking falls under the Safe Drinking Water Act, not the Clean Water
Act, in the category of injection wells and EPAs "Underground
Injection Control Program."

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/index.cfm

Again from the publicly available EPA site

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwate...nformation.cfm

"EPA has delegated primacy for all well classes to 33 states and 3
territories; it shares responsibility in 7 states, and implements a
program for all well classes in 10 states, 2 territories, the District
of Columbia, and most Tribes. "

All of these things were near trivial for me to find and, so, I expect
anyone putting in the effort to make an alleged 'documentary' should
do the same. After all, if you're going to 'accuse' the EPA, or anyone
else for that matter, you'd think one would at least spend 5 minutes
checking the website, even if nothing else. And the fact they either
didn't, or flat misrepresented what they did find, means there's not a
blessed thing in the alleged 'documentary' that can be trusted.

Patrick's implication I'd sacrifice my wife, or anyone else for that
matter (even Patrick), for 'Dick Cheney' is typical hate filled
stupidity but, to make an analogy, if you came down with a serious
case of pneumonia and the doctor amputated your legs because he 'hates
legs' then he hasn't 'helped' you one bit, now has he? The legs
weren't the 'source' of the disease, so you've still got pneumonia,
but now you've also got no legs. Thanks a bunch.

The same applies to fracking. If it's not the cause of the problem, as
all the studies say it isn't, then banning it won't 'help' anyone one
damn bit. They just end up having the same water problem with the
added misery of freezing to death in the dark with it.

Perhaps he could act as a
consultant for the opposing point of view.


They already know what I know because they find it just as easy to
click on www.epa.gov as I do. Not to mention they spend every day
filling out paper work on and complying with the bazillion regulations
involved.

Then we can all pay to go & watch!!


The "real money" is in propaganda films where people in droves pay
good money to watch someone lie and scare them to death.


Kickass. ;-)

LV

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Andre Jute[_2_] Andre Jute[_2_] is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

On Jul 4, 3:04*am, Lord Valve wrote:
flipper wrote:


The "real money" is in propaganda films where people in droves pay
good money to watch someone lie and scare them to death.


Kickass. *;-)


This is a democracy. Let's give them a choice. Vote for ONLY one:

a. Bring back Fat Al Gore.
b. Bring back Capital Punishment.
c. Bring back the Tzar of Russia.
d. Bring back Joseph Stalin.

Remember, vote for only ONE.

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Lord Valve Lord Valve is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

Andre Jute wrote:

On Jul 4, 3:04 am, Lord Valve wrote:
flipper wrote:


The "real money" is in propaganda films where people in droves pay
good money to watch someone lie and scare them to death.


Kickass. ;-)


This is a democracy. Let's give them a choice. Vote for ONLY one:

a. Bring back Fat Al Gore.
b. Bring back Capital Punishment.
c. Bring back the Tzar of Russia.
d. Bring back Joseph Stalin.

Remember, vote for only ONE.


Two of those are ringers, and we still have capital punishment - it never
went away.

Given the remaining choice, I vote "present,"
like O'Butthole did in the Senate all the time.

Does this mean my palm flower crystal is
going to start blinking?


Lord Valve
American - so far




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Andre Jute[_2_] Andre Jute[_2_] is offline
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Default Someone raves about 50 grand....

On Jul 4, 9:20*pm, Lord Valve wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Jul 4, 3:04 am, Lord Valve wrote:
flipper wrote:


The "real money" is in propaganda films where people in droves pay
good money to watch someone lie and scare them to death.


Kickass. *;-)


This is a democracy. Let's give them a choice. Vote for ONLY one:


a. Bring back Fat Al Gore.
b. Bring back Capital Punishment.
c. Bring back the Tzar of Russia.
d. Bring back Joseph Stalin.


Remember, vote for only ONE.


Two of those are ringers, and we still have capital punishment - it never
went away.


Exactly. Half the little creeps are so conditioned to be being offered
lists of stuff that trendies should be against, they'll never notice
they're voting to bring back capital punishment, at least in the
places where it isn't. And the other half will be cast in the pit of
indecision by the luscious choice between Fat Al Bore and Murderous
Joe Stalin. My betting is that more of them will vote for Joe Stalin
than for Fat Al. After all, Uncle Joe was a very efficient genocidal
maniac. The Tsardine is the only ringer in there.

Given the remaining choice, I vote "present,"
like O'Butthole did in the Senate all the time.

Does this mean my palm flower crystal is
going to start blinking?


Only if you plug it in first.

Lord Valve
American - so far


We have a place for you if your favorite pressy gets to be more
socialist than the (nominal) socialists this side of the water.

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books
http://coolmainpress.com/andrejute.html
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