[Gary Eickmeier]

Hey group -

I have just recently been getting into some of the more exotic forms of
recorded media. I wanted to purchase some examples of Telarc three spaced
omni recordings, and in the process stumbled upon a site that explained that
Jack Renner recorded in the DSD format which then had to be downmixed into
the CD standard in two channel. It went on to tout the SACD format, wherein
again we could sample the full resolution and number of channels and so on.

So I said great, I will just get some of these and lay them on my DVD player
and get me some 5.1 surround stuff as it was recorded. But Lo, little did I
realize that SACD takes a dedicated player, spec'd as SACD capable.

So OK, fine, I will just go shop for some music DVDs that have surround
sound and get my kicks that way, and see what the state of the art of music
recording might be. But Lo, now we discover another dedicated format called
Dolby True HD, and there is one from DTS as well. These are optional codecs
that were started with the Blu Ray format. Fortunately - it seems - since it
is an optional codec there may also be a standard DD AC3 5.1 surround track
on it.

Complicating all this, of course, is the definite possibility that something
you buy in one of the new formats will be just an upmix of some ancient two
channel recording, proving nothing that couldn't be done with your Yamaha
receiver.

I am a little baffled by how we can tell anything about what we are buying -
how it was really reocorded and mastered, whether it has a real solid center
channel or phantom, real .1 subwoofer feed or not, discrete surround
recording or upmix, on and on.

Am I just ignorant or are you guys not up on all this either?

Gary Eickmeier

PS - I have had some good success with my experimental three spaced omni
recordings of a middle school band and orchestra, and I would be glad to
send a CD to anyone who wants to give a listen, if you Email me your
address. Not great music, just interesting recordings.

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson[_2_]]

=DEann 20/06/2011 03:19, skrifa=F0i Gary Eickmeier:
Hey group -

I am a little baffled by how we can tell anything about what we are buy=
ing -
how it was really reocorded and mastered, whether it has a real solid c=
enter
channel or phantom, real .1 subwoofer feed or not, discrete surround
recording or upmix, on and on.

That is what music magazines are for, distributing information like that=20
although classical labels and audiophile labels usually have some sort=20
of info on their homepages and sometimes on the cover as well.

And of course a new improved format will require a hardware or a=20
software upgrade, in the case of an SACD both the conversion process and=20
the basic media are very different from a standard CD, however almost=20
all SACD disks have a compatibility layer that allows you to play the=20
disk back on a standard CD player. And SACD does nor require a dedicated=20
player but a compatible player, quite a number of DVD players can play=20
back SACD's although they tend to be more expensive.

The Dolby True HD and DTS-HD are more common on Blu-rays than on DVD's,=20
most music DVD's use a slightly improved version of the MP3 format=20
(usually an AAC variant branded either Dolby or DTS) that is compressed=20
in a loss inducing way (i.e. data is thrown away) and are not considered=20
hi-fi for that reason.

DTS-HD, Dolby T-HD, the now defunct DVD-A format and SACD's all use=20
lossless data compression, i.e. no data is thrown away. The difference=20
is that DTS-HD, Dolby T-HD and DVD-A are PCM formats while SACD/DSD is=20
delta-sigma, and Telarc and the other classical labels actually record=20
in DXD, which is D-S with twice the sampling rate of DSD, this is then=20
transcoded to DSD for SACD, 16 bit linear PCM for CD or 16/20/24 bit=20
lossy PCM for DVD. (not mixed BTW as you stated, in most cases mixing=20
happens either in the DXD format itself for quality reasons or after=20
transcoding to PCM if the decision to record in DXD was due to archival=20
issues rather than current quality issues)


You did not play LP's on a wind up 78 RPM gramophone even though the=20
formats were similar ....

[Gary Eickmeier]

I just looked up the specs on my Pioneer BD60 Blu Ray player. It can play
Dolby True HD all right. As long as I do it thru the HDMI output. Fate would
have it that I bought my receiver before HDMI, so it has no HDMI input for
video or audio, just the usual component video and digital or analog audio
input. I go to the projector in component, and was hoping to ride it out
that way until I downsize my dwelling and no longer need a 15 ft screen.

Who would have thought that audio could dictate the purchase of a new
receiver, just so that I can try one of the new formats and probably hear no
difference from good old DD 5.1.

Gary Eickmeier