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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC &
Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design/ sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vincent is 2x the price of Jolida. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
Molise wrote:
Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design/ sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vincent is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over another? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tubes in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductors, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, then an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appropriate solution. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to listen to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under blind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use different speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Your question opens a can of worms. I realise it has been popular to criticise audio dealers for quite some time. They can, however, perform a useful purpose (as opposed to buying unheard, from the 'net). If you establish a relationship with a GOOD dealer, then that dealer will be happy to loan you appropriate products, so you can make an intelligent choice. Buying an audio product without first listening to it, is no different to buying a car without first test driving it, or marrying a woman without first, er, trying her cooking. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:10:16 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote
(in article ): Molise wrote: Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design/ sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vincent is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over another? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tubes in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductors, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). Agreed. Tubes in the low-level section don't really "do anything" positive or negative. Now, of you like the sound of tubes (and many people do) then go for tubes in power amp, not the low level stages. * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, then an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. Agreed. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appropriate solution. Also true, but still, there is no reason in today's world to go with tubes at all unlike you just happen to LIKE them. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to listen to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under blind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use different speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Harman Kardon HK-990. It is a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
Audio Empire wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:10:16 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote (in article ): Molise wrote: Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design/ sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vincent is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over another? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tubes in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductors, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). Agreed. Tubes in the low-level section don't really "do anything" positive or negative. **Not so. All valves exhibit microphonics to some extent. This is, IMO, part of the appeal for certain listeners. Microphonics is small amounts seems to artificially enahance sound stage size. The other stuff (hum, noise, distortion) can be dealt with, but usually requires considerably more effort than a properly implemented SS stage. Now, of you like the sound of tubes (and many people do) then go for tubes in power amp, not the low level stages. * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, then an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. Agreed. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appropriate solution. Also true, but still, there is no reason in today's world to go with tubes at all unlike you just happen to LIKE them. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to listen to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under blind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use different speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Harman Kardon HK-990. It is a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. **I've not tried that model HK. I've used the late model HK CD players and find them to be excellent value for money. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 09:59:44 -0800, ScottW wrote
(in article ): On Mar 5, 8:22=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote: On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:10:16 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote (in article ): Molise wrote: Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design/ sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vincent is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over another? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tubes in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductors, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). Agreed. Tubes in the low-level section don't really "do anything" positive or negative. Now, of you like the sound of tubes (and many people do) then go for tubes in power amp, not the low level stages. * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, then an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. Agreed. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appropriate solution. Also true, but still, there is no reason in today's world to go with tubes at all unlike you just happen to LIKE them. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to listen to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under blind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use different speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Harman Kardon HK-990. It is =A0a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. From the technical specs tab on H-K website Phono Input Yes, MM and MC. Why can't companies provide sufficient documentation of their products? So I download the pdf manual. Input sensitivity/impedance: 350mV/43k ohms (Tuner/CD) 10mV/47k ohms (Phono =96 MM) 1mV/100k ohms (Phono =96 MC) 100k for MC....are they kidding? Kidding, no. Mistaken, yes. The manual for this amp is a complete joke. It doesn't give you all the specs, and some that it does give, like the MC loading is wrong (that should read 100 Ohms, not 100K Ohms according to an engineer at H-K with whom I spoke). The manual also doesn't tell you how to assign a high-level input to either the corresponding analog jacks on the back, or one of the digital inputs but you can figure that out. It also doesn't tell you what the built-in A to D converter is. I assumed it was 16/44.1, but it doesn't seem like it is. If I try to copy a DVD-A to CD for instance, the output won't sync to the digital input on my CD recorder, but if I try to copy an LP to CD, the digital output does lock to 16/44.1. Nobody at H-K seemed to know for sure either. On the other hand, the presence of built-in phono inputs, a 24/192 up-sampling D/A converter (with four user assignable inputs), SEVEN high-level analog inputs, a built-in A/D converter, room/speaker calibration software built-in (it even comes with a calibration microphone), separate high-current power supplies for each channel (the amp section is rated at 150 Watts/channel and the power supply can instantaneously source 200 Amps of current). All of this for $2500 seems to be quite a bargain in this day and age. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
On Mar 6, 9:59=A0am, ScottW wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:22=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote: On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:10:16 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote (in article ): Molise wrote: Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design= / sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vince= nt is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over anot= her? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tub= es in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductor= s, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, = noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). Agreed. Tubes in the low-level section don't really "do anything" posit= ive or negative. Now, of you like the sound of tubes (and many people do) then= go for tubes in power amp, not the low level stages. * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, t= hen an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. Agreed. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appr= opriate solution. Also true, but still, there is no reason in today's world to go with tu= bes at all unlike you just happen to LIKE them. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to l= isten to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under bl= ind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use differen= t speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Ha= rman Kardon HK-990. It is =A0a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. = It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. From the technical specs tab on H-K website Phono Input Yes, MM and MC. =A0 Why can't companies provide sufficient documentation of their products? So I download the pdf manual. Input sensitivity/impedance: 350mV/43k ohms (Tuner/CD) 10mV/47k ohms (Phono =96 MM) 1mV/100k ohms (Phono =96 MC) 100k for MC....are they kidding? Must be a mistake. I'll bet dollars to donuts they meant 100 not 100k. That is the optimal loading for my Koetsu Rosewood Signature. Of course the smart thing is to have variable loading built into the preamp. There is no single optimal loading for all MC cartridges. I know others who actually prefer 47k for the Koetsu. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
On Mar 6, 12:59=A0pm, ScottW wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:22=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote: On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:10:16 -0800, Trevor Wilson wrote (in article ): Molise wrote: Looking at buying a hybrid integrated-- looked at Jolida 1501RC & Vincent SV 226MK. Have been told that if buying a hybrid best design= / sound comes from Mosfet amplifier(Jolida) vs bipolar(Vincent). Vince= nt is 2x the price of Jolida. **Why? What are the reasons given for preferring one hybrid over anot= her? Here are my thoughts: * There is no point is choosing an amplifier that employs vaccuum tub= es in the low level sections over one using properly designed semiconductor= s, unless one wishes to capitalise on the flaws inherent to tubes (hum, = noise, distortion, microphonics, etc). Agreed. Tubes in the low-level section don't really "do anything" posit= ive or negative. Now, of you like the sound of tubes (and many people do) then= go for tubes in power amp, not the low level stages. * If any advantages can be ascribed to using tubes in an amplifier, t= hen an argument could be mounted to suggest that using those tubes as output devices is acceptable. Agreed. * Valves are a better match with MOSFETs than with BJTs (Bipolar Transistors), though sensible design should be able to effect an appr= opriate solution. Also true, but still, there is no reason in today's world to go with tu= bes at all unlike you just happen to LIKE them. As with all such things, the best way to choose an amplifier, is to l= isten to a selection of appropriate amplifiers with YOUR speakers, under bl= ind conditions. Asking people you've never met, or those who use differen= t speakers to yours, is a recipe for a bad result. Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Ha= rman Kardon HK-990. It is =A0a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. = It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. From the technical specs tab on H-K website Phono Input Yes, MM and MC. =A0 Why can't companies provide sufficient documentation of their products? So I download the pdf manual. Input sensitivity/impedance: 350mV/43k ohms (Tuner/CD) 10mV/47k ohms (Phono =96 MM) 1mV/100k ohms (Phono =96 MC) 100k for MC....are they kidding? ScottW- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Appreciate the replies. I know that listening is the best way and my dealer has asked me to bring in my speakers or take home a couple amps. Also have 30 days after purchase to return if not satisfied. So what I hear being said is with today's technology no need to buy tubes unless I have a strong preference for the sound and that Mosfet amp is a better match with tube preamp in the hybrid. I did read about the HK but not for $2200 My budget is capped at 1500. |
#8
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да,хорошо. кладу 5.
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Hybrid Amplifier question
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:02:48 -0800, ScottW wrote
(in article ): On Mar 6, 12:35=A0pm, Audio Empire wrote: On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 09:59:44 -0800, ScottW wrote (in article ): On Mar 5, 8:22=3DA0pm, Audio Empire wrote: [quoted text deleted -- deb] Let me suggest an integrated amp to put on one's short list: The new Harman Kardon HK-990. It is =3DA0a marvelous performing and very flexible unit. It is also somewhat of a bargain - considering what it brings to the table. From the technical specs tab on H-K website Phono Input Yes, MM and MC. Why can't companies provide sufficient documentation of their products? So I download the pdf manual. Input sensitivity/impedance: 350mV/43k ohms (Tuner/CD) 10mV/47k ohms (Phono =3D96 MM) 1mV/100k ohms (Phono =3D96 MC) 100k for MC....are they kidding? Kidding, no. Mistaken, yes. The manual for this amp is a complete joke. It doesn't give you all the specs, and some that it does give, like the MC loading is wrong (that should read 100 Ohms, not 100K Ohms according to an engineer at H-K with whom I spoke). The manual also doesn't tell you how to assign a high-level input to either the corresponding analog jacks on the back, or one of the digital inputs but you can figure that out. It also doesn't tell you what the built-in A to D converter is. I assumed it was 16/44.1, but it doesn't seem like it is. If I try to copy a DVD-A to CD for instance, the output won't sync to the digital input on my CD recorder, but if I try to copy an LP to CD, the digital output does lock to 16/44.1. Nobody at H-K seemed to know for sure either. Sounds like the usual block of copying digital sources to me. None of my receivers will provide digital record outputs from a digital source. H-K says it will output to 24/96 and the manual says nothing. But you could be very correct here. Or, perhaps it outputs digitally what it inputs (16/44.1 in, 16/44.1 out; 16/48 in, 16/48 out; 24/96 in, 24.96 out, etc) . I don't know. Some won't even provide analog outputs for recording from a digital source but all will support record out from analog sources. This one will provide analog outputs from a digital source, that I was able to check! On the other hand, the presence of =A0built-in phono inputs, a 24/192 up-sampling D/A converter (with four user assignable inputs), SEVEN high-level analog inputs, a built-in A/D converter, room/speaker calibration software built-in (it even comes with a calibration microphone), separate high-current power supplies for each channel (the amp section is rated at 150 Watts/channel and the power supply can instantaneously source 200 Amps of current). All of this for $2500 seems to be quite a bargain in this day and age. Instantaneous specs are about as meaningful as the 4th generation Real-Time Linear Smoothing. It shows that it has a robust power supply, nothing else. I'll say this. The two toroidal transformers are impressivly huge. |
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