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#1
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
The best kind of sound system: none. 3rd balcony, not close.
Sounded completely awesome. So happy to hear music not going through electronics. They just function at a level beyond my comprehension. I have no idea what planet they're from. How can they play like that without their heads exploding? No electronic tuners, either. They tuned by ear after every song. |
#2
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
" writes:
The best kind of sound system: none. 3rd balcony, not close. Sounded completely awesome. So happy to hear music not going through electronics. They just function at a level beyond my comprehension. I have no idea what planet they're from. How can they play like that without their heads exploding? No electronic tuners, either. They tuned by ear after every song. I saw Nickel Creek here a few years back. PA too loud, as usual. But at the 3rd or fourth encore, Chris and the band did something usual. They invited the remaining house - about 200 people - to come down close to the stage, and then they asked that the PA be shut down. They did two more tunes huddled around at the edge of the apron (this was in a 2800 seat house). Oh my! What an experience. It was on par with hearing Isaac Stern, Leontine Price, et al, live, but in the modern bluegrass genre. So consider yourself very lucky to have heard that genius level of playing truly live, with nothing between you and the player except air. Then you strive to make your recordings have the same impact. You might process the hell out of it, or you might not -- but at least you now know what the greatest of the great playing *really* feels and sounds like. (And you're right - head exploding is a risk!!!) Congrats! (Sorry I missed it. Darn.) Frank Stearns Mobile Audio -- |
#3
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Frank Stearns wrote:
I saw Nickel Creek here a few years back. PA too loud, as usual. But at the 3rd or fourth encore, Chris and the band did something usual. They invited the remaining house - about 200 people - to come down close to the stage, and then they asked that the PA be shut down. They did two more tunes huddled around at the edge of the apron (this was in a 2800 seat house). 35 or 40 years ago, I saw Benny Goodman at Constitution Hall in Washington. He came out on stage, walked up to the one microphone in front of the band and said "Is this mic on?" When the audience responded that it was, he said "Please turn it off, and leave it off for the rest of the show." No problem at all hearing the band, and everything was well balanced. I've seen Flatt & Scruggs, Bill Monroe, The Stanley Brothers, Doc Watson, Del McCoury, even Merle Travis without a sound system. But you just can't make a living any more playing to houses small and quiet enough to work without amplification if you're a pop act. Nickel Creek made their nickel on the 2800 who came to see them, and working barefoot for the last 200 stragglers was a nice bonus. Edgar Meyer and Chris Thiele do essentially a classical act, and that's still performed without amplification much of the time. When you have drums and amplified instruments on stage, though, it's darn near impossible to for a band to balance themselves because it's just too loud too hear well enough to play as a group. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#4
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Mike Rivers wrote:
Edgar Meyer and Chris Thiele do essentially a classical act, and that's still performed without amplification much of the time. When you have drums and amplified instruments on stage, though, it's darn near impossible to for a band to balance themselves because it's just too loud too hear well enough to play as a group. So, the solution is to use a PA system to make it even louder! --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#5
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Edgar Meyer and Chris Thiele do essentially a classical act, and that's still performed without amplification much of the time. When you have drums and amplified instruments on stage, though, it's darn near impossible to for a band to balance themselves because it's just too loud too hear well enough to play as a group. IME its the acoustic drums that make it so difficult to balance the group. Amplified instruments can be turned down, but quiet drummers are hard to find. |
#6
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message acquisition... " writes: The best kind of sound system: none. 3rd balcony, not close. Sounded completely awesome. So happy to hear music not going through electronics. They just function at a level beyond my comprehension. I have no idea what planet they're from. How can they play like that without their heads exploding? No electronic tuners, either. They tuned by ear after every song. I saw Nickel Creek here a few years back. PA too loud, as usual. But at the 3rd or fourth encore, Chris and the band did something usual. They invited the remaining house - about 200 people - to come down close to the stage, and then they asked that the PA be shut down. They did two more tunes huddled around at the edge of the apron (this was in a 2800 seat house). Oh my! What an experience. It was on par with hearing Isaac Stern, Leontine Price, et al, live, but in the modern bluegrass genre. So consider yourself very lucky to have heard that genius level of playing truly live, with nothing between you and the player except air. Then you strive to make your recordings have the same impact. You might process the hell out of it, or you might not -- but at least you now know what the greatest of the great playing *really* feels and sounds like. (And you're right - head exploding is a risk!!!) Congrats! (Sorry I missed it. Darn.) Frank Stearns Mobile Audio -- and some of us labor to do that with a sound system reinforce, not over produce I have even accomplished it a few times once with a sitar/tabla show that brought tears to ones eyes from the beauty of it it can be done, but it's a lot of work with lots of really expensive stuff BTW I am so jealous of every one that went to that show I saw Edgar,Douglas and barrenburg,(hop,skip,and wobble tour) it stands out as a show above all other shows George .. |
#7
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"George's Pro Sound Company" writes:
and some of us labor to do that with a sound system reinforce, not over produce I have even accomplished it a few times once with a sitar/tabla show that brought tears to ones eyes from the beauty of it it can be done, but it's a lot of work with lots of really expensive stuff You know, I'm glad you brought this up. You're right - it can be done up the limits of the physics and the state of the art; the trick is a painstaking balance and tuning of the system by someone with musical/good hi-fi studio ears who can still hear above 5 Khz and who has musical sensitivity along with knowing when it sounds like a cruddy PA and when it sounds right, like real music, and going that extra mile to get there, just like for a very hifi record. And it takes continuous anal attention to system health details from microphones to speaker boxes to support all the other hard work. Beyond good hardware the keys seems to be rational volumes, tonal (and compensating EQ) awareness of phase issues from multiple mics on stage and multiple, co-mingled "sound pools" from mains, monitors, on stage sources, and the room itself. Whadda soup!! But sometimes it can taste pretty good if all the "spice" is balanced just right. In fact, a Big Secret here of why some live recordings sound so engaging is the capture of that spice. Call me crazy, but in my location work with amplified shows I embrace stage bleed (within reason), though some of my clients grumble when they can't autotune so easily because of it. g My general thanks to you that you seem to be aware and can tune & mix PA appropriately. Frank Stearns Mobile Audio -- |
#8
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Arny Krueger wrote:
Amplified instruments can be turned down, but quiet drummers are hard to find. It's difficult to find an electric guitarist who will turn down and keep it turned down. Mostly because the drummer won't turn down. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#9
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Arny Krueger wrote: Amplified instruments can be turned down, but quiet drummers are hard to find. It's difficult to find an electric guitarist who will turn down and keep it turned down. Mostly because the drummer won't turn down. one of the reasons I don't play out much, everyone is a expert at turning up the PA system I get arguments over how to do sound from the guy who cut the carton his 15 inch pyle speaker was shipped in and mounted his speaker in the cardboard, it was pretty free from resonances though :-) |
#10
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Hi,
I've seen Chris Thile something like 10 times in Nickel Creek, Punch Brothers, and Mutual Admiration Society. On two different occasions, like you, I saw Nickel Creek do an encore without amplification. It really was a wonderful experience. Last year Punch Brothers did an encore all grouped around a single mic, which was also quite impressive. I haven't heard Edgar Meyer, but Chris does seem like he is from another planet. He has an ability to comprehend complex musical pieces and (while playing with energy, joy and intensity) literally toy with the melody, harmony, and rhythm in a completely pleasing manner. An astounding musician. If want to be amazed, or if you just want to feel humbled as a musician, go back and listen to the album he made when he was 12 or 13 years old. The title is "Leading Off", and the musicianship is astounding. Dean On Oct 30, 11:33*am, Frank Stearns wrote: " writes: The best kind of sound system: *none. * 3rd balcony, not close. Sounded completely awesome. * So happy to hear music not going through electronics. *They just function at a level beyond my comprehension. I have no idea what planet they're from. *How can they play like that without their heads exploding? No electronic tuners, either. *They tuned by ear after every song. I saw Nickel Creek here a few years back. PA too loud, as usual. But at the 3rd or fourth encore, Chris and the band did something usual. They invited the remaining house - about 200 people - to come down close to the stage, and then they asked that the PA be shut down. They did two more tunes huddled around at the edge of the apron (this was in a 2800 seat house). Oh my! What an experience. It was on par with hearing Isaac Stern, Leontine Price, et al, live, but in the modern bluegrass genre. So consider yourself very lucky to have heard that genius level of playing truly live, with nothing between you and the player except air. Then you strive to make your recordings have the same impact. You might process the hell out of it, or you might not -- but at least you now know what the greatest of the great playing *really* feels and sounds like. (And you're right - head exploding is a risk!!!) Congrats! (Sorry I missed it. Darn.) Frank Stearns Mobile Audio -- *. |
#11
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"drichard" wrote in message
... If want to be amazed, or if you just want to feel humbled as a musician, go back and listen to the album he made when he was 12 or 13 years old. The title is "Leading Off", and the musicianship is astounding. I had the pleasure of running sound for him once back then. He was a delightful person then, and from everything I've heard remains one. Peace, Paul |
#12
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Glenn Carlson wrote:
Bottom line, real talent doesn't need the tricks, unless of course it is a huge room and then the laws of physics come into play. Unfortunately, it's not about the laws of physics, it's about the laws of economics. An unknown Amy Grant might be willing to play in a church with just her guitar and a pianist, but "real talent" (that is, those with the talent and backing to make large amounts of money with their music performances) can't afford to play acoustic gigs for a couple of hundred people. Not unless they can set up small gigs with high enough ticket prices so that they can maintain their standard of living. If they need to walk away from a gig with $100,000 and want to play for 200 people, tickets need to be $500. I know some people will pay that. Maybe they should try. Who should we book first? The sad part is that we have so very little real talent these days. I've been listening to the local radio station for the past 2 hours while taking care of work and every song sounds like an updated 50 s tune with c am f g and back again only with a croaker vocal..... It's terrible. We have a lot of good talent these days, though some of it has been around for many years and is still going. You're just listening to the wrong radio stations. But it's easy to find a lot of manufactured pop that doesn't have a lot of staying power but can be a good live show if you protect your ears. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#13
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Glenn Carlson wrote: Bottom line, real talent doesn't need the tricks, unless of course it is a huge room and then the laws of physics come into play. Unfortunately, it's not about the laws of physics, it's about the laws of economics. An unknown Amy Grant might be willing to play in a church with just her guitar and a pianist, but "real talent" (that is, those with the talent and backing to make large amounts of money with their music performances) can't afford to play acoustic gigs for a couple of hundred people. Not unless they can set up small gigs with high enough ticket prices so that they can maintain their standard of living. If they need to walk away from a gig with $100,000 and want to play for 200 people, tickets need to be $500. I know some people will pay that. Maybe they should try. Who should we book first? on the last tour Simon and Garfunkle were playing 5-8000seat venues and people were paying 20$ PER SONG, each and every one of the 8000 and I dare say they got more than their moneys worth also some shows just can not be pulled off standing on the stage edge , the huge audience generates its own huge energy, I saw Springsteen perform solo acoustic without a PA, I was NOWHERE near the concerts he played in the 70's with the E streeters a sound system is just a tool to use when trying to reach a audience it can be used to great ends, or it can be carelessly deployed and run with complete disregard for the end result, The Rolling Stones for example, worst PA sound I have ever heard I was 4 songs into the show before I recognized a single word, same venue Pink Floyd comes in with the division bell and I feel as though I am wearing high end headphones done wrong , as it is all too often, the pa interferes with the concert done right and there is no other experience that matches George |
#14
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
drichard wrote:
I haven't heard Edgar Meyer, but Chris does seem like he is from another planet. He has an ability to comprehend complex musical pieces and (while playing with energy, joy and intensity) literally toy with the melody, harmony, and rhythm in a completely pleasing manner. An astounding musician. You need to hear Edgar... -- ha shut up and play your guitar |
#15
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: Edgar Meyer and Chris Thiele do essentially a classical act, and that's still performed without amplification much of the time. When you have drums and amplified instruments on stage, though, it's darn near impossible to for a band to balance themselves because it's just too loud too hear well enough to play as a group. So, the solution is to use a PA system to make it even louder! Nah ... a small practice type drum kit has excellent mileage. And using gentler implements to bash them there drums and cymbals with. It's kinda like piano accompanying .... they good keyboard operators have enugh control of what they do to keep the lid open for good sound. Not playing lead instrument is a very special kind of stardom much cherished by other musicians. --scott Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#16
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Peter Larsen wrote:
Nah ... a small practice type drum kit has excellent mileage. And using gentler implements to bash them there drums and cymbals with. This is completely changing the sound and role of the drums. Some groups can accommodate this, others can't, and some just plain don't wanna. It's not just something you can tell them to do and they do it. If we could do that, we could tell people to sing in tune and we wouldn't have to tune vocals to keep up with the Britneys. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#17
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Saw Chris Thile and Edgar Meyer at Carnegie Hall last night
Mike Rivers wrote:
Peter Larsen wrote: Nah ... a small practice type drum kit has excellent mileage. And using gentler implements to bash them there drums and cymbals with. This is completely changing the sound and role of the drums. Some groups can accommodate this, others can't, and some just plain don't wanna. It's not just something you can tell them to do and they do it. I think it's the other way around. The small practice-type kit is the way trap sets used to be, before there was PA. What has happened is that the availability of PA has changed the sound and role of the drums. If we could do that, we could tell people to sing in tune and we wouldn't have to tune vocals to keep up with the Britneys. I do that all the time. Sometimes it is futile but I keep trying anyway. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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