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J Antero
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is there any easy way
to do this well?

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are easier than going
the computer route, is that correct?

Thanks


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Arny Krueger
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

"J Antero" wrote in message
ink.net
I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is
there any easy way to do this well?


I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are
easier than going the computer route, is that correct?


The "black box" would of course be called an audio CD recorder. Having done
this sort of things using both a CD recorder and a PC, my opinion is that
using the PC is the preferred route. For one thing, CD recorders cost
money, while a PC that is suitable for the purpose may already be on hand.


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mc
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question


"J Antero" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is there any easy
way to do this well?


www.covingtoninnovations.com/audio/digitizing

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are easier than going
the computer route, is that correct?


No.


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David Nebenzahl
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

J Antero spake thus:

I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is there any easy way
to do this well?

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are easier than going
the computer route, is that correct?


I've never used a "black box", but I think it might only be marginally
easier than going the PC route, and would probably give you less control
over the process.

I've been converting "analog" music to CD for years, both from vinyl and
cassette tapes, using home audio equipment plugged into a sound card
(SoundBlaster). It works very well. The nice thing is that you can
easily edit the tracks you create, chopping off empty silence at the
beginning and end, even removing clicks and pops from vinyl tracks.
Besides, it's cheap and easy to get the equipment: practically any
computer nowadays will have a sound card built in, or they can be gotten
cheap, and the audio equipment can be bought cheap at secondhand stores
(or sometimes obtained for free).


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"
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Michael Weinstein
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

On 2006-05-04 11:32:26 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
said:


"J Antero" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is there any
easy way to do this well?

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are easier than
going the computer route, is that correct?


If by "blackbox" you mean Audio CD recorder, then yes, there is.

Jeff


Audio CD recorders are very easy to use and plug into your stereo
system like another tape recorder. Only downside is you have to buy the
AUDIO only CD-Rs. They are only marginally more expensive but somewhat
harder to find.
--
Michael | "You're going to need a bigger boat."



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David Nebenzahl
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

Michael Weinstein spake thus:

On 2006-05-04 11:32:26 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
said:

"J Antero" wrote in message
ink.net...

I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD. Is there any
easy way to do this well?

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that are easier than
going the computer route, is that correct?


If by "blackbox" you mean Audio CD recorder, then yes, there is.


Audio CD recorders are very easy to use and plug into your stereo system
like another tape recorder. Only downside is you have to buy the AUDIO
only CD-Rs. They are only marginally more expensive but somewhat harder
to find.


What? Where do you get that from?

In fact, if anything, audio CDs (specifically, CD-DA) are *more*
tolerant of errors than data CDs, since they don't include the same ECC
stuff in each frame. Audio CDs typically contain many (digital) errors
that are corrected (usually by the drive hardware and firmware). Any
kind of CD will work just fine.

Just curious where you picked up this bit of urban folklore.


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"
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Mr.T
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
Audio CD recorders are very easy to use and plug into your stereo system
like another tape recorder. Only downside is you have to buy the AUDIO
only CD-Rs. They are only marginally more expensive but somewhat harder
to find.


What? Where do you get that from?

In fact, if anything, audio CDs (specifically, CD-DA) are *more*
tolerant of errors than data CDs, since they don't include the same ECC
stuff in each frame. Audio CDs typically contain many (digital) errors
that are corrected (usually by the drive hardware and firmware). Any
kind of CD will work just fine.

Just curious where you picked up this bit of urban folklore.


Obviously you don't understand the disk requirements of many consumer stand
alone CD recorders, and he does.
It has nothing to do with CDROM Vs CD-DA data streams, (which is totally
irrelevant if you are making a music CD anyway, since you are NOT burning a
CDROM format in either case, if you wish to play it on a CD player!)
It has everything to do with copy protection systems and royalty payments.

MrT.


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David Nebenzahl
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

Mr.T spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Audio CD recorders are very easy to use and plug into your stereo system
like another tape recorder. Only downside is you have to buy the AUDIO
only CD-Rs. They are only marginally more expensive but somewhat harder
to find.


What? Where do you get that from?

In fact, if anything, audio CDs (specifically, CD-DA) are *more*
tolerant of errors than data CDs, since they don't include the same ECC
stuff in each frame. Audio CDs typically contain many (digital) errors
that are corrected (usually by the drive hardware and firmware). Any
kind of CD will work just fine.

Just curious where you picked up this bit of urban folklore.


Obviously you don't understand the disk requirements of many consumer stand
alone CD recorders, and he does.
It has nothing to do with CDROM Vs CD-DA data streams, (which is totally
irrelevant if you are making a music CD anyway, since you are NOT burning a
CDROM format in either case, if you wish to play it on a CD player!)
It has everything to do with copy protection systems and royalty payments.


So tell me, MrT, what does that have to do with the type of CD-R one
uses to burn? I recognize that there are protection schemes and all
that; probably better than you do, since I used to work for a company
whose primary business was CD duplication equipment. It doesn't matter
what kind of *media* you use.


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"
  #9   Report Post  
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Dave Platt
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Obviously you don't understand the disk requirements of many consumer stand
alone CD recorders, and he does.
It has nothing to do with CDROM Vs CD-DA data streams, (which is totally
irrelevant if you are making a music CD anyway, since you are NOT burning a
CDROM format in either case, if you wish to play it on a CD player!)
It has everything to do with copy protection systems and royalty payments.


So tell me, MrT, what does that have to do with the type of CD-R one
uses to burn? I recognize that there are protection schemes and all
that; probably better than you do, since I used to work for a company
whose primary business was CD duplication equipment. It doesn't matter
what kind of *media* you use.


Here in the U.S. all "consumer digital audio" CD-R burners (the
standalone type) are required by law to work *only* with "consumer
audio digital recording media" blank discs. These blanks are
fundamentally quite similar to (in fact, almost identical to) the
generic computer-type "restricted use" blanks, save for two
differences:

- A 2% royalty on their wholesale price has been collected from the
manufacturer, for payment to artists and music publishers, and

- A code has been molded into the pregroove to indicate that the
royalty has been paid.

Generic data-type CD-R blanks won't work in standalone CD recorders,
because the recorder firmware is required by law to reject 'em.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
  #10   Report Post  
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David Nebenzahl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tape to CD conversion question

Dave Platt spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Obviously you don't understand the disk requirements of many consumer stand
alone CD recorders, and he does.
It has nothing to do with CDROM Vs CD-DA data streams, (which is totally
irrelevant if you are making a music CD anyway, since you are NOT burning a
CDROM format in either case, if you wish to play it on a CD player!)
It has everything to do with copy protection systems and royalty payments.


So tell me, MrT, what does that have to do with the type of CD-R one
uses to burn? I recognize that there are protection schemes and all
that; probably better than you do, since I used to work for a company
whose primary business was CD duplication equipment. It doesn't matter
what kind of *media* you use.


Here in the U.S. all "consumer digital audio" CD-R burners (the
standalone type) are required by law to work *only* with "consumer
audio digital recording media" blank discs. These blanks are
fundamentally quite similar to (in fact, almost identical to) the
generic computer-type "restricted use" blanks, save for two
differences:

- A 2% royalty on their wholesale price has been collected from the
manufacturer, for payment to artists and music publishers, and

- A code has been molded into the pregroove to indicate that the
royalty has been paid.

Generic data-type CD-R blanks won't work in standalone CD recorders,
because the recorder firmware is required by law to reject 'em.


OK, I stand (sit) corrected. How long has this been true?


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"


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Dave Platt
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tape to CD conversion question

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Generic data-type CD-R blanks won't work in standalone CD recorders,
because the recorder firmware is required by law to reject 'em.


OK, I stand (sit) corrected. How long has this been true?


Roughly 14 years - since the passage of the Audio Home Recording Act
of 1992.

The Act was a big piece of political and economic compromise. The
music producers won some restrictions: home digital-audio taping or
CD-burning requires the use of equipment and blanks on which a royalty
has been paid (in order to compensate the artists and publishers for
the loss of revenue) and the recorders are required to implement and
honor the SCMS single-generation copy-control technique.

Consumers won out with some legal protection. If you use
consumer-audio recording devices and blanks (and computer CD burners
generally do _not_ qualify), and make copies only for in a
noncommercial context (e.g. personal backups, or to give to friends),
then you cannot be prosecuted for copyright infringement.
Noncommercial analog copying (e.g. on cassette tape) is specifically
legalized, with no copy protection or royalties required.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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Arny Krueger
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

"Michael Weinstein" wrote
in message
news:2006050717591216807-notreallymeNOSPAM@ixnetcomcom
On 2006-05-04 11:32:26 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
said:


"J Antero" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a lot of music tapes I'd like to convert to CD.
Is there any easy way to do this well?

I've heard there are "blackbox" setups for this that
are easier than going the computer route, is that
correct?


If by "blackbox" you mean Audio CD recorder, then yes,
there is. Jeff


Audio CD recorders are very easy to use and plug into
your stereo system like another tape recorder.


CD recorders are very easy if all you want is a poor quality recording.

If you want the recording to start and end properly, and have other than
primitive production quality, CD recorders are a starting point at their
best. What I mean is that they are good as a capture device, but that's
about it.

If you capture a recording on a CD recorder and want it to have other than
primitive production values, then you rip the CD with a computer, use
editing software such as the freeware Audacity as needed, and then burn the
edited track on the PC's CD burner. This allows making recordings with clean
starts and stops, it allows you be flexible when producing compilations,
remastering, denoising, etc.

Only downside is you have to buy the AUDIO only CD-Rs. They
are only marginally more expensive but somewhat harder to
find.


This is of course false. There are two kinds of CD recorders "consumer" and
"pro". CD recorders that are sold to the professional market will record on
any standard recordable CD media, just like a PC.


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Mark D. Zacharias
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

Dave Platt wrote:
In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Generic data-type CD-R blanks won't work in standalone CD recorders,
because the recorder firmware is required by law to reject 'em.


OK, I stand (sit) corrected. How long has this been true?


Roughly 14 years - since the passage of the Audio Home Recording Act
of 1992.

The Act was a big piece of political and economic compromise. The
music producers won some restrictions: home digital-audio taping or
CD-burning requires the use of equipment and blanks on which a royalty
has been paid (in order to compensate the artists and publishers for
the loss of revenue) and the recorders are required to implement and
honor the SCMS single-generation copy-control technique.

Consumers won out with some legal protection. If you use
consumer-audio recording devices and blanks (and computer CD burners
generally do _not_ qualify), and make copies only for in a
noncommercial context (e.g. personal backups, or to give to friends),
then you cannot be prosecuted for copyright infringement.
Noncommercial analog copying (e.g. on cassette tape) is specifically
legalized, with no copy protection or royalties required.


Except now you can buy what used to be called "audio only" as "dual use" or
"all-purpose" CD-R's, which eliminates the need for dual inventories. The
price of the audio types had fallen quite a bit in recent years anyway.

Mark Z.


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Dave Platt
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question


In article ,
Mark D. Zacharias wrote:

Consumers won out with some legal protection. If you use
consumer-audio recording devices and blanks (and computer CD burners
generally do _not_ qualify), and make copies only for in a
noncommercial context (e.g. personal backups, or to give to friends),
then you cannot be prosecuted for copyright infringement.
Noncommercial analog copying (e.g. on cassette tape) is specifically
legalized, with no copy protection or royalties required.


Except now you can buy what used to be called "audio only" as "dual use" or
"all-purpose" CD-R's, which eliminates the need for dual inventories. The
price of the audio types had fallen quite a bit in recent years anyway.


Well, there never was a strong *technical* reason for dual inventories.
The royalty-paid (consumer-audio-capable) discs have a use tag of
"unrestricted use", while the generic/data discs are tagged
"restricted use, general purpose". The unrestricted-use royalty-paid
discs can store data (filesystems, etc.) just fine.

Historically, there has until recently been a pretty hefty price
differential between restricted/general-use discs and unrestricted
consumer-audio discs. I believe that this has to do almost entirely
with market issues - the latter type were not in heavy demand, and so
there wasn't much competition between sellers to push the prices down.
Also, the fixed costs of stocking such slow-selling products had to be
amortized across a small number of sales. The price does seem to have
come down a lot recently.

I believe that there *can* still be one technical reason for wanting
two inventories. Modern data-type CD-R blanks tend to be optimized
for high-speed burning, which (I understand) tends to require a thin
and very laser-sensitive dye layer. Consumer-audio CD burners tend to
burn in real time (1x data rate), and the high-speed-optimized blanks
don't necessarily work at their best at this speed. Some folks seem
to get better results using blanks which have an older-style dye
formulation that's optimized for slow-speed burning, with its longer
laser exposure. It's still possible to buy such slow-speed-type
blanks, optimized for real-time burning, if you shop around a bit
(last time I looked, at least).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
  #15   Report Post  
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David Nebenzahl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tape to CD conversion question

Dave Platt spake thus:

In article ,
Mark D. Zacharias wrote:

Consumers won out with some legal protection. If you use
consumer-audio recording devices and blanks (and computer CD burners
generally do _not_ qualify), and make copies only for in a
noncommercial context (e.g. personal backups, or to give to friends),
then you cannot be prosecuted for copyright infringement.
Noncommercial analog copying (e.g. on cassette tape) is specifically
legalized, with no copy protection or royalties required.


Except now you can buy what used to be called "audio only" as "dual use" or
"all-purpose" CD-R's, which eliminates the need for dual inventories. The
price of the audio types had fallen quite a bit in recent years anyway.


Well, there never was a strong *technical* reason for dual inventories.
The royalty-paid (consumer-audio-capable) discs have a use tag of
"unrestricted use", while the generic/data discs are tagged
"restricted use, general purpose". The unrestricted-use royalty-paid
discs can store data (filesystems, etc.) just fine.

Historically, there has until recently been a pretty hefty price
differential between restricted/general-use discs and unrestricted
consumer-audio discs. I believe that this has to do almost entirely
with market issues - the latter type were not in heavy demand, and so
there wasn't much competition between sellers to push the prices down.
Also, the fixed costs of stocking such slow-selling products had to be
amortized across a small number of sales. The price does seem to have
come down a lot recently.

I believe that there *can* still be one technical reason for wanting
two inventories. Modern data-type CD-R blanks tend to be optimized
for high-speed burning, which (I understand) tends to require a thin
and very laser-sensitive dye layer. Consumer-audio CD burners tend to
burn in real time (1x data rate), and the high-speed-optimized blanks
don't necessarily work at their best at this speed. Some folks seem
to get better results using blanks which have an older-style dye
formulation that's optimized for slow-speed burning, with its longer
laser exposure. It's still possible to buy such slow-speed-type
blanks, optimized for real-time burning, if you shop around a bit
(last time I looked, at least).


Dave: can you post links to these units ("consumer-audio CD burners")?
I'm kind of aghast that, given my experience (over a decade) in the CD
duplication industry, I never really knew about these critters. Are
these stand-alone CD-R burners for making straight CD-to-CD copies?


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"


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Dave Platt
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Dave: can you post links to these units ("consumer-audio CD burners")?
I'm kind of aghast that, given my experience (over a decade) in the CD
duplication industry, I never really knew about these critters. Are
these stand-alone CD-R burners for making straight CD-to-CD copies?


http://hometheater.about.com/cs/topp...drecordera.htm has a
short review of several different models, with links to the
manufacturers' sites.

I see at least three basic types listed:

- Single-well CD-R/CD-RW recorders. These can record from analog or
S/PDIF digital inputs, but don't have a self-contained CD-to-CD
copying capability.

- Dual-well CD players / burners. These have a CD burning drive, and
a single-disc or multiple-disc CD player. They can copy from CD to
CD-R/RW, and some can do on-the-fly track selection and editing.

- Single-well CD-R/RW burner, with an internal hard disk. These can
copy CDs to CD-R/RW in a two-step process - rip, and then burn.

I believe that all of the ones cited on the page above implement the
U.S. AHRA requirements - they enforce SCMS on their inputs and
outputs, and they will only burn onto the royalty-paid "unrestricted"
blanks. Use 'em per the limitations in the AHRA and you cannot be
prosecuted for copyright infringement.

There are also "professional" CD copiers and CD recorders. These
don't require a royalty during manufacture, don't require the royalty-
paid blanks, and their support of SCMS is optional. People who use
them do not get the limited exemption from copyright-violation
prosecution that users of the consumer-audio models do.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
  #17   Report Post  
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David Nebenzahl
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

Dave Platt spake thus:

There are also "professional" CD copiers and CD recorders. These
don't require a royalty during manufacture, don't require the royalty-
paid blanks, and their support of SCMS is optional. People who use
them do not get the limited exemption from copyright-violation
prosecution that users of the consumer-audio models do.


This is what the company I worked for made and sold. They used
off-the-shelf CD-R drives (SCSI at the time I worked there, now they've
switched to IDE) which had no limitations whatsoever on the types of
media they'd accept or the types of discs they could make (except for
the oddball formats we had to search high and low for drives to support,
such as CD-G (karaoke)). We had the capability for the customer to
produce copy-protected discs through a proprietary scheme (ours), but so
far as I know none of them actually used it.

As for what our customers did with these duplicators ...


--
Pierre, mon ami. Jetez encore un Scientologiste
dans le baquet d'acide.

- from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled
"France recommends dissolving Scientologists"
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Jeremy
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...




- Dual-well CD players / burners. These have a CD burning drive, and
a single-disc or multiple-disc CD player. They can copy from CD to
CD-R/RW, and some can do on-the-fly track selection and editing.



My Sony RCD-W1 has a provision for copying CDs that have copy protection:
it converts the output of the CD into analog, then converts the analog
signal to digital and records that onto the second well.

There is no restriction whatsoever on how many clones can be made from that
initial copy.

I have noticed virtually no degradation of the audio quality on the
"digital-to-analog-back-to-digital" copies.


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Geoff
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

David Nebenzahl wrote:
Dave Platt spake thus:


Dave: can you post links to these units ("consumer-audio CD burners")?
I'm kind of aghast that, given my experience (over a decade) in the CD
duplication industry, I never really knew about these critters. Are
these stand-alone CD-R burners for making straight CD-to-CD copies?


We are all aghast that there was this rather basic gap in your knowledge.
It's not new.

But also is does not relate in any way to DUPLICATION. These are the blank
media required to use in stand-alone realtime CD recorders, not duplicators.

geoff


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Geoff
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question

David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is what the company I worked for made and sold. They used
off-the-shelf CD-R drives (SCSI at the time I worked there, now
they've switched to IDE) which had no limitations whatsoever on the
types of media they'd accept or the types of discs they could make
(except for the oddball formats we had to search high and low for
drives to support, such as CD-G (karaoke)). We had the capability for
the customer to produce copy-protected discs through a proprietary
scheme (ours), but so far as I know none of them actually used it.

As for what our customers did with these duplicators ...


Again, the recorders are realtime audio input recorders (and a few with
dual-decks that can copy). As you are aware, CD-R duplication is a
completely different and unrelated subject. Such duplication does not
require 'Audio' CD blank media.


geoff




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Jeff Findley
 
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Default Tape to CD conversion question


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
Dave: can you post links to these units ("consumer-audio CD burners")? I'm
kind of aghast that, given my experience (over a decade) in the CD
duplication industry, I never really knew about these critters. Are these
stand-alone CD-R burners for making straight CD-to-CD copies?


Google for "CD duplication" and you'll find units like these:

http://www.microcenter.com/search_re...c813efb7e4406a

The cheapest CD unit (no DVD duplication) at Micro Center (they have a local
store close to my house) is only $130 USD:

http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos...ct_id=21634 8

The higher end unit will produce 7 CD/DVD copies simultaneously is $1500
USD:

http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos...ct_id=23432 6

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.


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