[William Noble]

So, why is this relevant - because the ReQuests at least were very
revealing
of the system driving them.



Bill
www.wbnoble.com


There's no doubt that MLs are very revealing speakers, but not of
pre-amps,
amps or cables/interconnects. If two modern solid-state pre-amps (or amps
for
that matter) sounded different to you, it was likely because one was
louder
than the other, because basically, that's all the difference that there is
between them (unless one or the other had some frequency response
anomalies
or one or the other power amp is not happy driving the highly reactive
electrostatic speaker load). As far as cables/interconnects are concerned,
$4000/meter Nordst interconnects and ones made with a couple of pieces of
straightened-out coat hanger wire will sound identical, because
electrically,
they are identical.

Because I can't seem to post directly here, and posting through the
moderator causes my email to appear in the header, I'm going to be a very
infrequent poster, but the above demands some kind of answer.

***** Maybe the moderator can remove my email address from the header when
posting, in which case I'll contribute more (email on NG=spam, in my
experience)****

1. I have consitently found that +3dB of power is quite audible. I believe
that the ML amp has a much better low end than the 1970s vintage kenwood it
replaced, and probably a much higher slew rate. suffice it to say that
using the SAME preamp, and the same speakers and the same CD with the same
CD player and the same preamp and the same interconnects, and changing only
the power amp, the difference was distinctly audible to me and to
disinterested listeners in the house (yes, I took it home and tried it in my
house). Neither was louder than the other.

2. I have never been able to hear a difference with speaker wires or power
cords unless they are way undersized for the job, however the interconnect
from the preamp to the power amp can make a huge difference. This should be
obvious to all - after all the cable has impedance and that will affect the
sound. If you cannot hear it, then so be it - I did extensive testing with
cables I made, cables on loan from the stereo store, and anything else I
could find. Quality, by which I mean sound that I prefered, did not
correlate with price, though cheaper cables tended to sound worse, but it
did vary dramatically as I changed the wire type and the way I used the
various conductors in a multi-conductor cable. This effect was significant
enough that my daughter walking through the room remarked "you must have
changed the cables again, I don't like these new ones" - that's about as
close to a double blind test as you will come in a home setting. The worst
home made cables were made from twinax, the best were from dual TSP that was
rated for overhead use. All cables were balanced (XLR). The best
professional ones were Cardas (middle of the line) and Hovland. I bought
from Hovland because they are local, friends, and the two were pretty much a
dead heat as far as sound is concerned.

3. I was pretty systematic in my testing to configure my new system. I
tried each piece alone with the "best in the store" and then integrated into
my system before buying. since buying the stuff, I haven't changed
anything, I'm happy enough.

4. here is line up of key equipment - speakers ReQuest, amplifier and
electronics, Mark Levison 360S,332, 38S, TT - Fons, arm SME III, phone pre -
homebrew op amp circuit, cd player - several - connected digitally except
for Tascam, tape tanberg - you get the idea - the only interconnects that
affect sound that I can hear are pre to power amp, and D/A to preamp.

[Sonnova]

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:48:35 -0700, William Noble wrote
(in article ):

So, why is this relevant - because the ReQuests at least were very
revealing
of the system driving them.



Bill
www.wbnoble.com


There's no doubt that MLs are very revealing speakers, but not of
pre-amps,
amps or cables/interconnects. If two modern solid-state pre-amps (or amps
for
that matter) sounded different to you, it was likely because one was
louder
than the other, because basically, that's all the difference that there is
between them (unless one or the other had some frequency response
anomalies
or one or the other power amp is not happy driving the highly reactive
electrostatic speaker load). As far as cables/interconnects are concerned,
$4000/meter Nordst interconnects and ones made with a couple of pieces of
straightened-out coat hanger wire will sound identical, because
electrically,
they are identical.

Because I can't seem to post directly here, and posting through the
moderator causes my email to appear in the header, I'm going to be a very
infrequent poster, but the above demands some kind of answer.

***** Maybe the moderator can remove my email address from the header when
posting, in which case I'll contribute more (email on NG=spam, in my
experience)****

1. I have consitently found that +3dB of power is quite audible. I believe
that the ML amp has a much better low end than the 1970s vintage kenwood it
replaced, and probably a much higher slew rate. suffice it to say that
using the SAME preamp, and the same speakers and the same CD with the same
CD player and the same preamp and the same interconnects, and changing only
the power amp, the difference was distinctly audible to me and to
disinterested listeners in the house (yes, I took it home and tried it in my
house). Neither was louder than the other.

Ignoring, for the moment, that a 1970's Kenwood amplifier is NOT a modern
amplifier, you might have a point. Bass performance is often a product of
amplifier/speaker interaction. Such things as amp output impedance, and power
supply design can affect how low frequencies are coupled to the speakers.
But, OTOH, if you didn't perform a blind A-B test between the old Kenwood and
the new ML where both were matched in volume to less than +/- 1dB using
instruments, you are still dealing with sighted "expectation" results.

2. I have never been able to hear a difference with speaker wires or power
cords unless they are way undersized for the job, however the interconnect
from the preamp to the power amp can make a huge difference. This should be
obvious to all - after all the cable has impedance and that will affect the
sound.

That's just the point. NO it doesn't. There are no characteristics of any
conductor that could have the slightest effect on any signal from DC to 50
KHz or higher. No cable can produce enough capacitive or inductive reactance
at those frequencies to impact any characteristic of the audio signal being
carried.

If you cannot hear it, then so be it - I did extensive testing with
cables I made, cables on loan from the stereo store, and anything else I
could find. Quality, by which I mean sound that I prefered, did not
correlate with price, though cheaper cables tended to sound worse, but it
did vary dramatically as I changed the wire type and the way I used the
various conductors in a multi-conductor cable. This effect was significant
enough that my daughter walking through the room remarked "you must have
changed the cables again, I don't like these new ones" - that's about as
close to a double blind test as you will come in a home setting. The worst
home made cables were made from twinax, the best were from dual TSP that was
rated for overhead use. All cables were balanced (XLR). The best
professional ones were Cardas (middle of the line) and Hovland. I bought
from Hovland because they are local, friends, and the two were pretty much a
dead heat as far as sound is concerned.

Sorry, its simply impossible.

3. I was pretty systematic in my testing to configure my new system. I
tried each piece alone with the "best in the store" and then integrated into
my system before buying. since buying the stuff, I haven't changed
anything, I'm happy enough.

4. here is line up of key equipment - speakers ReQuest, amplifier and
electronics, Mark Levison 360S,332, 38S, TT - Fons, arm SME III, phone pre -
homebrew op amp circuit, cd player - several - connected digitally except
for Tascam, tape tanberg - you get the idea - the only interconnects that
affect sound that I can hear are pre to power amp, and D/A to preamp.

Probably gives you much pleasure. Enjoy.