[Bill Noble]

apparently I can't post through teranews, perhaps this will make it through




"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

**************snip******************
They were using a Levinson amp and a Classe preamp when I got there.
After
about an hour, they replaced the Classe with a Levinson preamp. As soon
as
they turned on the Levinson and music began to play, the store "guy"
sighed
and said, "That's better". There was no difference that I could detect.
The
source was a Wadia combo SACD/CD player. What I heard was the speakers.
No
electronics could make any speakers that were less than stellar sound
THAT
magnificent.

It is quite possible you were "expecting" no difference and the salesman
was
"expecting" a difference.
I'd still be interested in what they sound like pushed, say, by an older
Bryston, a Dynaco 416, or some other amp often claimed to sound "no
different".


for what it's worth, I have ML ReQuest speakers and Mark Levinson pre/power
amp and D/A - the following may directly address the question

I got the ReQuests in an "upgrade frenzy" a few years ago - at the time I
had AR3A speakers, a Kenwood 700M power amp, a Sony CD player (one of the
high end ones) and a Marantz 7T preamp - one day I noticed that not only had
both tweeters failed (which is pretty common in the old AR speakers) but
that I'd lost one midrange, that one channel of the Marantz had gone south
with serious distortion, and that my desire to chuck it all and get new
stuff had become active.

So, I started with a preamp and speakers - I bought the small ML speakers
(aerius?) because I always wanted electrostatics. I listened to a ton of
preamps and settled on the Mark Levison unit (there was a used one for about
1/2 of list) - the speakers sounded like warmed over fecal matter in my
house, so I went back and listened seriously to speakers, deciding that the
ReQuests were best, did the exchange and was temporarily happy. Then I
started wondering if the power amp might be improved, so I took my 700M to
the dealer and we played the usual swapping game using the same pre as I
had, the same speaker model, and the Levison power amp (again don't remember
model # ) - the 700M was pretty good, but there was a very distinct
difference with the newer power amp, so I bought that. And then of course
there was all the flailing around with cables (search archives, I posted
details at the time) and the addition of the Levison D/A, and now my system
is "static" and I'm not adding to it. My only real complaint has nothing to
do with sound - the system, when off, draws more power than the rest of my
house combined (it tries to keep the transistors warm, so it never really
turns off) - so I added a relay to totally power it down - that means that
powering it ON is a bit of a pain.

So, why is this relevant - because the ReQuests at least were very revealing
of the system driving them.



Bill
www.wbnoble.com

[Harry Lavo]

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
apparently I can't post through teranews, perhaps this will make it
through




"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

**************snip******************

snip story


So, why is this relevant - because the ReQuests at least were very
revealing
of the system driving them.

...
Thanks for the post, Bill. Your point well taken. I often wonder how many
of the "it all sounds the same" comments are made by people who have
middling systems that CAN'T reveal a differnce in-line? I know some here
fall into that category, but others seem not to. But unless the rest of the
system is really transparent, you'll be hard pressed to hear the difference
in components as they are substituted. Doesn't mean the differences are not
there, just that it requires a revealing system to reveal them if they are.

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:20:48 -0700, Bill Noble wrote
(in article ):

apparently I can't post through teranews, perhaps this will make it through




"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

**************snip******************
They were using a Levinson amp and a Classe preamp when I got there.
After
about an hour, they replaced the Classe with a Levinson preamp. As soon
as
they turned on the Levinson and music began to play, the store "guy"
sighed
and said, "That's better". There was no difference that I could detect.
The
source was a Wadia combo SACD/CD player. What I heard was the speakers.
No
electronics could make any speakers that were less than stellar sound
THAT
magnificent.

It is quite possible you were "expecting" no difference and the salesman
was
"expecting" a difference.
I'd still be interested in what they sound like pushed, say, by an older
Bryston, a Dynaco 416, or some other amp often claimed to sound "no
different".


for what it's worth, I have ML ReQuest speakers and Mark Levinson pre/power
amp and D/A - the following may directly address the question

I got the ReQuests in an "upgrade frenzy" a few years ago - at the time I
had AR3A speakers, a Kenwood 700M power amp, a Sony CD player (one of the
high end ones) and a Marantz 7T preamp - one day I noticed that not only had
both tweeters failed (which is pretty common in the old AR speakers) but
that I'd lost one midrange, that one channel of the Marantz had gone south
with serious distortion, and that my desire to chuck it all and get new
stuff had become active.

So, I started with a preamp and speakers - I bought the small ML speakers
(aerius?) because I always wanted electrostatics. I listened to a ton of
preamps and settled on the Mark Levison unit (there was a used one for about
1/2 of list) - the speakers sounded like warmed over fecal matter in my
house, so I went back and listened seriously to speakers, deciding that the
ReQuests were best, did the exchange and was temporarily happy. Then I
started wondering if the power amp might be improved, so I took my 700M to
the dealer and we played the usual swapping game using the same pre as I
had, the same speaker model, and the Levison power amp (again don't remember
model # ) - the 700M was pretty good, but there was a very distinct
difference with the newer power amp, so I bought that. And then of course
there was all the flailing around with cables (search archives, I posted
details at the time) and the addition of the Levison D/A, and now my system
is "static" and I'm not adding to it. My only real complaint has nothing to
do with sound - the system, when off, draws more power than the rest of my
house combined (it tries to keep the transistors warm, so it never really
turns off) - so I added a relay to totally power it down - that means that
powering it ON is a bit of a pain.

So, why is this relevant - because the ReQuests at least were very revealing
of the system driving them.



Bill
www.wbnoble.com


There's no doubt that MLs are very revealing speakers, but not of pre-amps,
amps or cables/interconnects. If two modern solid-state pre-amps (or amps for
that matter) sounded different to you, it was likely because one was louder
than the other, because basically, that's all the difference that there is
between them (unless one or the other had some frequency response anomalies
or one or the other power amp is not happy driving the highly reactive
electrostatic speaker load). As far as cables/interconnects are concerned,
$4000/meter Nordst interconnects and ones made with a couple of pieces of
straightened-out coat hanger wire will sound identical, because electrically,
they are identical.